hyretic Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Has anyone ever used an ELO or similar type ranking system in their games? To have all your workers ranked and use that to generate stories, or just to determine a sort of general ELO champion? Just interested if anyone has tried that and has any stories about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt_Black Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 ELO? Electric Light Orchestra? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redhilleagle Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 ELO? Electric Light Orchestra? Exactly what I thought! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ink625 Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 ELO? Electric Light Orchestra? Exactly what I thought! Me too! And the best ELO song, just in case anyone was wondering, is Showdown. But on topic, I'd never heard of ELO rankings before this post. Upon looking it up though, it's definitely an interesting concept. I've actually been pondering starting up a sports-based save using rankings for the wrestlers, and if I do I may consider implementing something similar. So thanks for making this topic! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Zodiac Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Ooooh. I would firstly say: must show working. How do you start your rankings? From 0 or from initial skill stats? You could even do a Weighted die roll to determine a winner. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott Zodiac Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 Your K factor could be a function of a worker’s experience maybe, on a logarithmic scale? Does this board allow LaTeX? /( hello/) $$ hello $$ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hecatomb Posted October 20, 2020 Share Posted October 20, 2020 I've never done it in a TEW game but I use ELO with FirePro as I am doing a manual promotion/world. I think it would be more straightforward in TEW since you have everything else tracked but with FirePro, ELO became part of a larger system to tell popularity, match performances and also wins/losses. It gets kind of odd with tag matches because you have to decide on a system for that early -- a different number for the person that got pinned? -- do they both just "lose" the same amount?, etc. For something like FP, I think it works well since it is an actual competition and the outcome is not predetermined. It seems like it would just be a lot of work to come to the same conclusions for TEW since you are booking the wins and losses. Not to dissuade you from trying though since I've never done it. I'd probably just go with a ranking system like in MMA/boxing which is pretty much just based on the general feeling of whoever is making it with some hard numbers to somewhat guide it. Edit: Scott, I started mine at 1300 maybe. I don't remember but I looked at some of the recommended info and went with that for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="hecatomb" data-cite="hecatomb" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52048" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've never done it in a TEW game but I use ELO with FirePro as I am doing a manual promotion/world. I think it would be more straightforward in TEW since you have everything else tracked but with FirePro, ELO became part of a larger system to tell popularity, match performances and also wins/losses.<p> </p><p> It gets kind of odd with tag matches because you have to decide on a system for that early -- a different number for the person that got pinned? -- do they both just "lose" the same amount?, etc. </p><p> </p><p> For something like FP, I think it works well since it is an actual competition and the outcome is not predetermined. It seems like it would just be a lot of work to come to the same conclusions for TEW since you are booking the wins and losses. Not to dissuade you from trying though since I've never done it.</p><p> </p><p> I'd probably just go with a ranking system like in MMA/boxing which is pretty much just based on the general feeling of whoever is making it with some hard numbers to somewhat guide it.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Edit: Scott, I started mine at 1300 maybe. I don't remember but I looked at some of the recommended info and went with that for whatever reason.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> For the tag teams, would you take it based on the team set up in the game (Permanent Unit both lose the same amount, etc).</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hecatomb Posted October 22, 2020 Share Posted October 22, 2020 <blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CQI13" data-cite="CQI13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="52048" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>For the tag teams, would you take it based on the team set up in the game (Permanent Unit both lose the same amount, etc).</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> That is what I would do. A unit gets the same loss but individual would be separate. I don't recall exactly how I had it but something like the person pinned would get a full loss and the other would get a half, pinner full win, other, half win. What that means in the context of the actual ELO, I'm not sure because I ran the ELO through other calculations where those half marks were put in. I would just do the ELO as normal and then put those numbers into a spreadsheet that would send them elsewhere with calculations. </p><p> </p><p> For individuals, maybe the two that were not involved in the win/loss do not get rated at all? Maybe you can do something with a different K factor for the people not involved in the finish but I don't know enough about the system to know if that even makes sense or would throw the whole thing off.</p><p> </p><p> But when doing the ELO, I would always pair the pinner and the person pinned and the two others. It may work to have a separate ELO for tag teams too.</p> Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WCGreyghost Posted October 23, 2020 Share Posted October 23, 2020 Me too! And the best ELO song, just in case anyone was wondering, is Showdown. I think Ricky Morton and Robert Gibson might disagree. She said, "Whamalamabamalama, rock'n'roll is king." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 That is what I would do. A unit gets the same loss but individual would be separate. I don't recall exactly how I had it but something like the person pinned would get a full loss and the other would get a half, pinner full win, other, half win. What that means in the context of the actual ELO, I'm not sure because I ran the ELO through other calculations where those half marks were put in. I would just do the ELO as normal and then put those numbers into a spreadsheet that would send them elsewhere with calculations. For individuals, maybe the two that were not involved in the win/loss do not get rated at all? Maybe you can do something with a different K factor for the people not involved in the finish but I don't know enough about the system to know if that even makes sense or would throw the whole thing off. But when doing the ELO, I would always pair the pinner and the person pinned and the two others. It may work to have a separate ELO for tag teams too. Maybe this is a good starting point. https://boardgamegeek.com/filepage/98469/elo-generator Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chm39 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 I've tried this but got tired of learning how to set one up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chm39 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 I knew what he was referring to but thanks to you guys I've found some new music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hecatomb Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 BTW this is what I found to be the easiest to use when I was working with ELO: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IEaeLyAkpE642yJkpj6oL_ktwApzjD2P4zprECOJ588/edit#gid=0 It seems like a lot but all you need to worry about is what is in green at the top left and what is outputted either in Players right under or what is in red if you want to figure out the Arenas bit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chm39 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 I tried this but its too confusing for my liking. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rufas2000 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 ELO? Electric Light Orchestra? No but there is a sort of strange magic to it. (I had a longer post with several song titles but I spared all the livin things reading this). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CQI13 Posted October 24, 2020 Share Posted October 24, 2020 Not sure if it would even work this way, but I think with perception the game does a pretty good job of who should be where (based on how they're doing - though momentum can be a little wonky unless I haven't been paying attention). However, these rankings could come in handy for an authority figure (probably a heel) wanting to seem fair in giving someone a shot (when in reality they're not there yet). I will have to take a look at the spreadsheets. Would you guys give any weight to dark matches? Or just main show matches? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShaunGBD Posted October 25, 2020 Share Posted October 25, 2020 No but there is a sort of strange magic to it. (I had a longer post with several song titles but I spared all the livin things reading this). We needed it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom Bombadil Posted October 26, 2020 Share Posted October 26, 2020 The most complicated ranking system I've ever used was just "you beat somebody above you, you get their spot and everybody else moves down one." I do enjoy ELO (both of em!) but it might be a bit heavy for wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chm39 Posted October 30, 2020 Share Posted October 30, 2020 The most complicated ranking system I've ever used was just "you beat somebody above you, you get their spot and everybody else moves down one." I do enjoy ELO (both of em!) but it might be a bit heavy for wrestling. I like this but, what happens when you lose a title match? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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