[HYPE] 2K1 WCW Lives - July 2001 (W.I.P.)

[Bigpapa42]

Greetings, salutations, and a very happy New Year. Let's take a quick trip back in time...

 

A mere 21 years ago, one of the most interesting periods in the history of professional wrestling in America was grinding to a conclusion. It was just a couple of months before WCW and ECW were gone, and Vinnie Mac was victorious. We all know the story, I expect, so no need to rehash the details. But various points in the whole "war" between WCW and the WWF are fun to rebook.

 

My personal favorite to rebook is the scenario where WCW survives beyond March of 2001. I was actually more of a "WWF guy" back then, but I've come to appreciate WCW much more since the company ceased to exist (ironic, I know). I've done several fantasy booking projects and more TEW saves than I can count.

 

Since TEW 2020 was released, I've wanted to try a 2001 scenario where WCW is still kicking. I've toyed with a few different ways but any way you approach it, such a project would be a ton of work. All of my my modding time went to The Yes Mod for a long time, and my intent was to work on a 1984 mod after that. But work on that has been almost non-existent for awhile (huge employment histories gets onerous to add to worker after worker) and I found myself recently mulling an idea, which has accidentally led to what appears to be a new mod project.

 

When I say this is in the early stages, I mean very early stages. At this point, its not impossible that I just lose interest and never go forward with the project. But progress has been fairly quick. While its probably too early for a hype thread, I find having a place to prattle on about such projects helps keep my focus. And so here we are.

 

The Mod

 

The mod is being built from scratch (sorta). The intent is to have a complete and detailed game world that take full advantage of TEW 2020's features. If you've looked at my 2013 mod The Yes Mod, you will know what to expect.

 

The intended start date in-game is July 2001. WCW will still be alive as a company. The intended scenario will be Fusient having bought out WCW, so Bischoff is the owner. The company has had a "shutdown period" and hasn't run any shows since the end of March 2001. The roster will be pretty much as it was in March 2001, minus any of the big names who had contracts directly with Time-Warner. From this point, WCW can be evolved into... anything. They won't be easy but also won't be exceptionally difficult.

 

The Method

 

A bit of backstory here... My first foray into large-scale modding was creating a personal version of Genadi's Death of WCW mod on TEW 2016. I didn't want to wait for an official release, so I converted over the 2013 version and started making some tweaks. Just adjusting things to how I prefer them, adding some missing future workers... and it snowballed into a pretty big project. It was never intended to be a public release. That project was a big key in me deciding to tackle The Yes Mod as a project from scratch (although I don't know that any TEW is ever truly from scratch, as pieces were definitely used from other mods, always with permission).

 

When the urge to book WCW past its actual demise hits, I've toyed with converting over my version of Genadi's Death of WCW mod. But that comes with complications - needing permission to release it publicly, the volume of work to optimize the conversion, and then a lot of adjusting I would want to do. So that process has never gotten very far. I've looked at other mods from the same relative era and considered how much work it would take to move them to the period and scenario I want... and it is a whole lot of work. I even thought about moving The Yes Mod back a mere 12 years, but again... a huge amount of work.

 

I kinda stumbled onto an idea - using The Yes Mod as a base, but indirectly - and decided to give it a try. I started with a fresh database. I imported base data (names, angles, etc) either from the Default database or from TYM. Venues and broadcasters got imported from TYM (and will have to be tweaked later). I imported companies from TYM that were active in mid 2001, and created a few that were missing. And then I began to import workers one at a time.

 

Obviously importing the worker and leaving them isn't going to work. As they get imported, I review each one. I adjust their employment history, add a finisher, give them an organic bio, and tweak anything else that might need tweaking (gimmick, status, etc). As I've started with the more important workers of the era, I also wanted to adjust their skills and popularity and Attributes. Its pretty necessary - not too many major stars are the same worker in 2013 that they were in 2001. And I've gone back to the same method I used for TYM but in a different way - I've imported some CV and TV workers that can I copy the skills of and then tweak. Using the Cverse worker modelling as a base gave TYM the overall balance I was hoping for, and that's the intent here.

 

This process has been surprisingly slick so far. It feels far quicker than creating workers from scratch, converting over imported worker templates, etc. I'm expecting to end up somewhere around 2K active workers (I could be off by as much as 500 in either direction) and TYM will probably have 70-80% of those. The rest will be done from scratch but that's down the road. TYM will also provide a huge volume of Yet-to-Debut workers. My initial focus has been on bigger names and I'm starting to fill in the bigger companies. Once I'm through those and notable talent on the indy scene, I will probably move away from the process of copying the skills of CV/TV workers and just adjust as needed.

 

Ugh... Fantasy?

 

I'm very aware a fantasy scenario isn't for everyone. Or maybe you are fine with fantasy mods, but just aren't interested in particular scenario. That's fine. I'm hoping that once the base mod is completed, I can begin to create some alternative versions. One would be a "real" scenario, with WCW and ECW both dead and the WWF running their much-beloved Invasion storyline. Having both WCW and ECW alive should be relatively easy, as would having a version with ECW alive and WCW dead. Then there is the possibility of moving things back to earlier start dates. A January 2001 version, and maybe earlier. All dependent on the mod actually getting finished and playing like I hope it does, of course.

 

Intended Features

 

Some of the intended features of the mod:

 

• Approximately 2000 active workers (including on-wrestlers)
  
• Approximately 1500 Yet-to-Debut workers
  
• 68 Active companies
  
• A significant number of Yet-to-Open companies
  
• Custom pic pack based on nGo style
  
• Full employment histories, as much as possible
  
• All workers will have finishers, alter egos, where possible
  
• Active companies in all game areas except India (sorry, open to suggestions on that)
  
• Organic bios (sorry if you don't like them)
  
• Large number of free pics
  
• Custom end-of-year awards going back to 1980
  
• Specific cuts for Hall of Fame & Hall of Immortals
  
• Full title histories including # of defenses (again, where possible)
  
• Broadcasters will be based on TYM's broadcasters (with help from Asaemon's broadcaster mod)
  

 

Progress

 

Active Workers: 120

Future Workers: 0

Active Companies: 60

Future Companies:

[Dalton]

Oh wow! I'll be watching this closely. The YES Mod is one of my favorites of this gen.

[theyungboomer]

Awesome. I'll be looking forward to this!

[Adelwolf]

I'm really looking forward to this mod! 2001 is also one of my favorite years in wrestling and I feel 2020 needs a good mod to represent this era!

[Jhonatan02]

Oh I, indeed, know what to expect, your 2013 mod is one of my favs, very excited for this

[brandon21]

the goat is backkkkkkk

 

can't wait for this!

[Jowett1865]

cant wait for this

[Bobby Brown]

this sounds [EDIT: very] awesome! i'm already lovin' it!

let's start with "THE BIG BANG" in july 2001,

and let the big boys play again!

[Jaysin]

Are you still working on the 84 mod or is that one no longer in the works?

 

I've tried updating 2001 mods for 2020 and the various conversions leave the data in real rough shape and I lose interest.

[feltzz]

Can't wait for this! Good luck

[Bigpapa42]

Oh wow! I'll be watching this closely. The YES Mod is one of my favorites of this gen.

 

Awesome. I'll be looking forward to this!

 

I'm really looking forward to this mod! 2001 is also one of my favorite years in wrestling and I feel 2020 needs a good mod to represent this era!

 

Oh I, indeed, know what to expect, your 2013 mod is one of my favs, very excited for this

 

the goat is backkkkkkk

 

can't wait for this!

 

cant wait for this

 

this sounds [EDIT: very] awesome! i'm already lovin' it!

let's start with "THE BIG BANG" in july 2001,

and let the big boys play again!

 

Can't wait for this! Good luck

 

Thanks gents. Great to see some enthusiasm for a period that I really enjoy as well. Also appreciate the love for The Yes Mod. That's extra encouraging, as that will provide a lot of basis.

 

Are you still working on the 84 mod or is that one no longer in the works?

 

I've tried updating 2001 mods for 2020 and the various conversions leave the data in real rough shape and I lose interest.

 

I would say 1984 is on the backburner. It wasn't getting much attention just because adding in Employment Histories to everyone from the territorial era is a load of work. I'm also a bit concerned about how TEW will manage to emulate the late territorial era and the tours of Japan that so many workers did. So it will probably get some more attention down teh road... just not for now.

 

And that's pretty much what happened when I tried to convert over the version I did on TEW 2016. I would convert it, look through it and just hard nope. Every worker would have to be looked at, given Attributes, and many reskilled and adjusted. Every company. Every broadcaster. Just tons of work. So far, this mod has felt like less work.

 

And since this thread is just to share... a few random notes / thoughts…

 

-moved past 100 workers in the data the other day. Which doesn’t sound like a lot… and I guess its probably not a lot when you consider the total workers that will be needed in the data. But it was just a couple weeks ago that it was an empty database. The workers that are in are complete as much as possible. I’ve focused on bigger names and the WWE roster, so a lot of top workers are in there.

 

-the WWE roster is probably 75% complete minus referees and road agents (those are pretty painless to add). I'm just starting on adding the women to the roster

 

-the gameworld and gameplay balance should be similar to The Yes Mod. There should be talent widely available and I’m hoping that every company is playable. There should be solid workers in all areas of the gameworld. I'm hoping to have every company included to be complete - full roster, non-wrestlers, belts, etc. That's not a guarantee but that is my preference.

 

-the WWE will be easy mode. Much moreso than on TYM, where there were some challenges. I’m anticipating that the top of the WWE roster will have to be nerfed a bit in the testing phase and a lot of them will “look” like they should be better, but I don’t really want the AI to be getting A* shows for every single show they run so…. compromise.

 

-I've said this before, but when it comes down to absolute "realism" and playability, the latter will generally win out. I would typically prefer a balance between them

 

-the backstory I’m going with the mod is the basic idea that the Fusient purchase went through at the end of March 2001. All WCW content is removed from Time Warner owned networks. That leaves Bischoff as the “owner” of WCW and I’m looking at using a number of the ideas he has said they were looking at. Shutting down for several months, relocating to Las Vegas, etc. John Laurentius potentially as the starting booker. I will probably have them start with no broadcast deals but hopefully with several options they can choose from. None of this is set in stone and I’m open suggestions (but please don’t be offended if I don’t run with your suggestion). I am hesitant to do anything too wild (bought out by Shane, Chris Jericho, etc) as anyone who wants a really specific scenario could tweak the mod to that quite easily.

 

-the big stars from WCW that were under contract directly to Time Warner will be on starting absences until those deals run out. This includes Hogan, Goldberg, Nash, Flair, etc.

 

-one exception I’m considering is Diamond Dallas Page. He took a buyout of his Time Warner contract so he could sign with the WWE and be part of the Invasion. He clearly loved WCW so I don’t think its unreasonable that he would have done the same to be a major part of a relaunched WCW project.

 

-just added Rey Mysterio. Have him as masked, as he remasked in later 2001. Still mulling this one…

 

-did give some thought to making this a streamlined mod. Fewer companies and workers. Not really limited in scope (where certain regions are just left out) but not offering the same level of diversity – so having josh companies, but 1 or 2 instead of like 6. I posted a poll on Reddit and it was overwhelmingly in favor of having more of both workers and companies. So this will also resemble TYM. This I my preference for a mod so I’m fine with it but my thought was that having, for example, 40 active companies and 1400 workers instead of 65 companies and 2100 workers would just make things faster.

 

-another thing I'm still debating... bios. Writing bios for companies is one thing - there is only around 60 active companies, I think. But writing custom bios like I did for The Yes Mod is a different situation because its a lot of work. On TYM, I wrote the bio for each worker as I added them. It was fun, but also a lot of added work. Probably doubled the amount of time it took for each worker to get added. That got less as I got into adding lower level indy workers and future workers, but I also knew less about each of them so it felt like I was writing the same bio over and over. At this point, I'm using organic bios... but there is a chance I do written bios for at least some workers. Just not right now.

 

-almost every worker that’s in TYM will be in this. So loads of future workers, with them debuting pretty much right up to current day.

 

-one company I considered and decided to leave out is MCW. Memphis Championship Wrestling. Partly because they shut down in early July and also because there are two other companies with the same initials – Maryland Championship Wrestling and Melbourne City Wrestling.

 

-with something like 107 workers currently in the data, we are very far from a testing phase. But once we get to the testing and beta stages, I will be hoping for lots of feedback. Oyaji and HWRP were absolutely invaluable on TYM.

 

-in the meantime, while this comes together, I wouldn't mind hearing people's thoughts on... well, almost anything. Suggestions for WCW ownership situations or how they survive are welcome (again, please don't be offended if I don't run with it). But are there favorite workers from this era that often get left out of mods or are underrated? Mention them - again, no guarantee but I'm pretty open. If they are obscure, be prepared to provide some details, including a cuttable pic, or they probably don't get in. Local indy guys who never made it to bigger stage are fine and I like having some in a mod, but details for them can often be impossible to find. Suggesting companies is fine, but be aware that adding a company can be huge amount of work as it also means adding a full roster, ownership, non-wrestlers, titles, and title lineages - so I'm generally going to consider adding companies that fill in a "blank" area or have something pretty unique.

[outb0undflight]

Man! Between this announcement and Fleisch's '82 announcement it's been a great week for modding! YES Mod is one of the best real-world mods of this generation of TEW, WCW Lives is one of the best mods of the last, so I have nothing but great expectations for this!

[Jaysin]

Some suggestions based on interviews I've read over the years.

 

WCW announce team:

Mike Tenay- Announcer

Joey Styles- Announcer

Don Callis- Color Commentator

Stevie Ray- Color Commentator

Jeremy Borash- Announcer and On Air Personality

 

In more than one interview and I believe in Eric Bischoff's book, it was confirmed that both Joey Styles and Don Callis were in negotiations to be the new announce team for Eric Bischoff's new WCW. Keeping Tenay on the main announce team makes sure there's a familiar voice on Nitro. Borash was working on the creative team and as a backstage interviewer. He has also done announcing for WCW and TNA.

 

I'd also have them start with one A-Show(Nitro on FOX) and B-Show(WCW Saturday Night on FX). There have been rumors for ages that WCW was moving to Fox/FX if Eric has bought the company. In previous TEW games I used USA Network since they were so desperate for pro wrestling, they even had contract negotiations with ECW. From a narrative standpoint, USA Network would be a nice twist.

 

Nitro Announce Team: Mike Tenay, Don Callis, Joey Styles

Saturday Night Announce Team: Mike Tenay, Stevie Ray, Jeremy Borash

[Dalton]

-another thing I'm still debating... bios. Writing bios for companies is one thing - there is only around 60 active companies, I think. But writing custom bios like I did for The Yes Mod is a different situation because its a lot of work. On TYM, I wrote the bio for each worker as I added them. It was fun, but also a lot of added work. Probably doubled the amount of time it took for each worker to get added. That got less as I got into adding lower level indy workers and future workers, but I also knew less about each of them so it felt like I was writing the same bio over and over. At this point, I'm using organic bios... but there is a chance I do written bios for at least some workers. Just not right now.

Organic bios are fine with me. Especially in a time period that so many of us are familiar with. Anything that saves you time to work on other things.

 

On the broadcasting deals note, I am on the side of leaving them with none. Leave it up to the player (or the AI) to decide where to go. If you do choose to go with broadcasting deals, I would imagine they would not broadcast on Mondays, so maybe Wednesday Night Nitro (like WCW: Empire ) would be the best course of action.

[Bigpapa42]

Man! Between this announcement and Fleisch's '82 announcement it's been a great week for modding! YES Mod is one of the best real-world mods of this generation of TEW, WCW Lives is one of the best mods of the last, so I have nothing but great expectations for this!

 

1982 would be a very fun period to book.

 

Some suggestions based on interviews I've read over the years.

 

WCW announce team:

Mike Tenay- Announcer

Joey Styles- Announcer

Don Callis- Color Commentator

Stevie Ray- Color Commentator

Jeremy Borash- Announcer and On Air Personality

 

In more than one interview and I believe in Eric Bischoff's book, it was confirmed that both Joey Styles and Don Callis were in negotiations to be the new announce team for Eric Bischoff's new WCW. Keeping Tenay on the main announce team makes sure there's a familiar voice on Nitro. Borash was working on the creative team and as a backstage interviewer. He has also done announcing for WCW and TNA.

 

I'd also have them start with one A-Show(Nitro on FOX) and B-Show(WCW Saturday Night on FX). There have been rumors for ages that WCW was moving to Fox/FX if Eric has bought the company. In previous TEW games I used USA Network since they were so desperate for pro wrestling, they even had contract negotiations with ECW. From a narrative standpoint, USA Network would be a nice twist.

 

Nitro Announce Team: Mike Tenay, Don Callis, Joey Styles

Saturday Night Announce Team: Mike Tenay, Stevie Ray, Jeremy Borash

 

Nice suggestions.

 

That's probably fairly similar to what I will go with for the broadcast teams. I'm not 100% on Styles - signing him is a go-to move for me on past scenarios, but I don't know that I want to add anyone to the starting WCW roster than "shouldn't" be there. It gets tempting to start adding some of the ex-ECW stars before the WWE gets them.

 

If I was going to have WCW with broadcasting deals, then Fox-related networks would be a good option. But I don't know that I would use Fox. I believe that was the negotiation at one point, but WCW was pretty damaged by the point this starts at. Its not going to be a company that has the star power, finances, and popularity to continue to go head to head with the WWF. You need to rebuild things. And given the size of Fox as a broadcaster, it would be a mismatch to the situation of WCW and make generating a profit too easy.

 

As for why I prefer starting WCW with no broadcast deals.... see below...

 

Organic bios are fine with me. Especially in a time period that so many of us are familiar with. Anything that saves you time to work on other things.

 

On the broadcasting deals note, I am on the side of leaving them with none. Leave it up to the player (or the AI) to decide where to go. If you do choose to go with broadcasting deals, I would imagine they would not broadcast on Mondays, so maybe Wednesday Night Nitro (like WCW: Empire ) would be the best course of action.

 

Thanks Dalton. I do like a nice written bio with a bit of fun but its just a time-saver at this point.

 

And good memory on the old projects lol

 

That's pretty much the intent with having no starting broadcast deals. The AI will always sign the same ones, I assume. But someone running WCW, I'd like them to have several choices. Now this may not work out with the broadcasters once I tweak them... but ideally, I would like several options available that you have to choose between. Do you go for the biggest broadcaster that is going to have higher show-quality requirements, locking yourself into booking a certain way? A smaller broadcaster to reduce the minimum grade? Wide coverage or most money? I thought that was a good decision that the player faced on TEW 2016 with TCW if they cancelled their starting TV deal. Presenting that kind of conundrum where there aren't necessarily wrong choices, but just different consequences... I like that approach. Ideally both the TV and event deals would have that kind of situation.

[JohnnyRaider37]

Oh boy

 

Yes sir! This mod is EXACTLY what I've. looking for. I would be downloading on day one. I would also love to see the broadcasting section left empty. It'll be great negotiating everything from scratch.

[Jowett1865]

Any updates?

[Jaysin]

Any updates?

 

Hasn't even been a week since the last update

[TruckMang]

I'm more then excited for this! The Yes Mod is my favourite and most played mod on 2020 and the 2001-2002 era is the exact time where I've been hoping for a mod to come up that is to my liking. There's so many possibilities whether you want to just sandbox as WWF, rebuild WCW or skip ahead a bit and start some of the most beloved indies in the US such as ROH or PWG. Can't wait!

[Bigpapa42]

An update? Well, Jaysin has the right of it - it hasn't been too long so there just isn't much to provide. I don't imagine anyone wants a worker-by-worker running commentary on the additions. That's really the main focus at this point - just getting workers in. There loads beyond that - adjusting the companies, broadcasters, and so on. But workers first.

 

I guess I can say that the total number of workers has gone up from like 110 to around 150 in the past week. The WWE is almost done for active workers. Started in WCW, but also added in some luchadors and puro guys as well. Like I mentioned with the WWF, I'm pretty sure I've overskilled the WCW roster a touch and people will need to get nerfed as we get into testing down the road. No love for Europe or the UK yet, nor Australia. That one is gonna be tough as the AWF wasn't exactly running constantly around this period. One happy moment was getting the first two joshi workers into the data - I hadn't done any yet because of the logistics of how I'm adjusting the workers after importing them. There's actually quite a few active joshi companies so should end up being a pretty active scene.

 

If anyone has anything specific they'd like to know about or any requests, throw em on here.

[Jowett1865]

Sorry I didn’t see the last update I just skipped to last page instead of checking the thread

[Bigpapa42]

All good.

 

And an unnecessary update. Still focusing almost entirely on adding workers to the data. Up over 200 now and probably hit 225. The vast majority are still active wrestlers, but getting a few refs and road agents and broadcasters in there as well. I didn't focus on filling in WCW as intended but have added workers from all over.

 

On The Yes Mod, the first 1000 workers seemed to take forever to get into the data. I was spending big chunks of time to get through the process. Entire evenings spent working on it, sometimes who weekend mornings while watching footie. I'm not able to put in long spells like that anymore but this process seems much quicker so its also not really necessary. I'm hoping that once I get through the bigger company rosters (and major free agents), adding workers will get even quicker as I'm not as likely to spend as much time reskilling someone who was never more than a indy vet as their position in the game world just has less of an impact on things.

 

Broadcasters is an area that will require a full revamp. I've done a handful but won't focus on it too much yet.

[Jaysin]

As long as Bronson Rechsteiner and Hook start with 100 Star Quality, the mod will be top notch

 

But no, for real, any update is a welcome. I've spent hundreds of hours on TEW and most have been messing with the editor. I know it can feel very tedious

[Bigpapa42]

As long as Bronson Rechsteiner and Hook start with 100 Star Quality, the mod will be top notch

 

But no, for real, any update is a welcome. I've spent hundreds of hours on TEW and most have been messing with the editor. I know it can feel very tedious

 

Both will be in the data. With GOOD SQ. Can you imagine The Steiner brothers and Taz still be active when the kids debut? That would be fun to book!

 

I'm much the same. I've modded more than I've played on this version. I enjoy it a lot but yeah, sometimes its a grind. At some point, this project will feel like a grind and I'll take a break. Thankfully not yet!

 

So unnecessary update once again... Moved past 250 workers! That process slowed a bit as I've been spending time finding ThunderVerse workers to use as bases for reskilling. I've been using almost all Cverse workers so far. I really appreciate that the worker balance of the Tverse is a bit different and scales a bit lower. It also helps that its a bigger game universe with a more diverse indy scene. I'm hoping that making use of both mods a bit more will create a nice range of skillsets for the 2001 gameworld.

 

In terms of additions, I've reached that point where a lot of the "notable" active workers are in the data... but a few still need to go in, and its sometimes weird to realize I haven't added THAT particular worker. Like I just added Kevin Nash and Scott Hall. I had held off largely because Nash was on an absence. Also starting to get some of the young workers who will be the next generation of stars into the data.

[TheCed]

What's the ETA?