eric_m_keeley Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [QUOTE=cappyboy;180383]But to dismiss his legend status flat out just because you don't like the guy? Sorry. You just weaken your perspective in my eyes by letting your bias show that way.[/QUOTE] I wasnt really being biased. I was stating my opinion based on what I hae seen. Thats about all anyone can do in this conversation. The question, "Is such and such a legend?" can only be answerd based on opinion. There were times I cheered for X-Pac, like when he tagged with Kane or Scott Hall. But I would say over the course of his career I was never impresed enough to call him a legend. [QUOTE=cappyboy;180383]And incidentially, I wouldn't have even mentioned Malenko. But I was grasping at straws for a second American cruiserweight with as strong an influence as Pillman and Waltman. I guess Jerry Lynn could qualify but is his resume gaudy enough?[/QUOTE] Personally I think Billy Kidman would have been a more comparable comparison. Dean Malenko in my eyes matches more up with the likes of Chris Benoit (yes I realize he's from Canada and he's a little big to be a true cruserwieght) but as far as the techinical level they bring to the ring, I see them comparable. But to put X-Pac as a legend in the crusierweight catagory is a slap in the face to the likes of Malenko, Mysterio and Guerrero. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterded Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Putting Mysterio's name with that of Malenko, is a slap to Malenko's face. Comparing Kidman to the Kid is kind of fun. Makes you think would you rather be always booed or get no reaction even when pushed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickC13573 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 Nah putting Mysterio in the same with Malenko's grappling is a slap to Malenko but overall they both belong in the same breath Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Lyrium Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 If you're looking for a comparison to Dean Malenko, an "older school" James Gibson is about as close as you'll get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterded Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 (Joking here) Mysterio is a joke a man with a 12 year olds face and height. (Now to be real) I don't know Mysterio has never done it for me. I always saw him as more of a running and flipping guy with little else to offer. In fact out of all the WCW Lucha Libres I always disliked him most. (like most of the others) But, Malenko is one of the greatest wrestlers ever. So for me its comparing a guy I see as one of the best ever to a guy who wasn't as good as the other wrestlers with the similar styles. But, that us just my opinion. (A quick question) I thought if you lost a mask vs. make/hair match that it was considered like an attack on Mexican heritage to start wearing a mask again? (In the eyes of Mexican wrestling fan) (Back on topic) Anyone ever get this type of reaction with someone who fits your style perfectly and has high popularity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D16NJD16 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 He doesn't wrestle in Mexico anymore, wasen't when it happened, and he didn't lose the mask in mexico, he lost in WCW in a pretty stupid move IMO. So tht's why I don't theres been any backlash ever. There's big differences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric_m_keeley Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [QUOTE=D-Lyrium;180479]If you're looking for a comparison to Dean Malenko, an "older school" James Gibson is about as close as you'll get.[/QUOTE] From what I can find Gibson was trained by Malenko. Is this true? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterded Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 I know where and why he lost it. I should of worded my question better. Was their a backlash in Mexico over him taking of the mask then going back to it, in what seems to be less then a year? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the ismailite Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [QUOTE=D16NJD16;180435]I'm not saying your lying, but I don't remember that AT ALL, and I never missed an episode of RAW until maybe around 2001 or 2002.[/QUOTE] Yeah, it's true. I remember when he beat Kane (a few times actually). Heck, he beat a lot of people as 123 kid alone (Hall, Farouk etc.) The Mysterio push in WCW ( where he beat Nash and Bigelow in two weeks) was a swipe on 123 Kid imo right down to the bronco buster. I can understand why you wouldn't remember it though... Who would want to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eric_m_keeley Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [QUOTE=Lostrelms;180530]Doesnt appear Triple H will be dominating much TV time for the forseeable future, he toor his quad yet again tonight at New Years Revolution...[/QUOTE] #$%!@$%#!%^@#$&%!@#*($%&!#)$*%& Now I am once again left with no reason to watch wrestling. Son of a b#$%# Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [QUOTE=D16NJD16;180436]Well that's not true at all. Most people have him pegged down as the reason Edge's push with Cena was defused, with how DX was the focal point of RAW when Edge and Cena was the hottest feud going. He also destroyed every member of the Spirit Squad every week for months, and never went anywhere or gave them their heat back, if Shawn wasen't around to bump just a little it would have been comical. He made that offbeat hypocritical comment to Chris Masters about being off shrunken and off steriods as well.[/QUOTE] I doubt you can credit Triple H with the end of the Edge/Cena feud. The feud simply ran its course in my opinion. As for the Spirit Squad, I wouldn't put them over either, so I have no beef with Triple H there. If anything, the only thing I'd do differently is go to those retarded bookers McMahon has employed and ask them what drugs they were on when they came up with the idea of the Spirit Squad. Masters, well, he's a tool no matter how you look at it. I wouldn't blame Triple H for holding down people who don't deserve to be elevated to begin with. Lately, he's earned his place and played his role well, and without holding back deserving people. Sure, part of that is because there are so few deserving people in WWE these days, but that's beside the point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mvargus Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [QUOTE=Anubis;180613] Sure, part of that is because there are so few deserving people in WWE these days, but that's beside the point.[/QUOTE] I disagree. I think that the fact that there are so few deserving people in the WWE is exactly their problem and that unless they figure out how to fix this they will soon lose even more of their fanbase. The roster WWE has seems to be mostly hasbeens, never-was, and a few greats who get injured far to often. There is no direction in the booking. They love to push HHH and Michaels, but really De-Generation X is basically a recycling of the old stable and political storylines that Eric Bischoff perfected when he had the NWO. (I may have hated the NWO, but I have to give Bischoff credit in that it will be very hard to do that kind of storyline better.) They have an oversized roster, which too many wrestlers no getting enough exposure to become big. They have become very eye-candy based in angles, but haven't really backed that up with good wrestling, or storylines that can draw people in. I'll admit that some of the ladies are pretty, but I don't go for silicone, or screechy managers, and that seems to be most of what WWE offers. sorry for the rant, but wanted to throw my $.001 in. As for X-pac heat. I'm sure several of the wrestlers in WWE would love to get that, just to prove that the fans cared about them at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrKain Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [QUOTE=keefmoon;179741]Cena started getting "X-Pac heat" even before that, it became really noticeable in his fued with Angle, I believe.[/QUOTE] Yeah, I remember being at a show and they did a TNA-Style back and forth chant, except that it was completely one-sided. "Let's Go Angle" and "Cena Sucks" were the chants... and "**** You Cena!" It was great. :) I hate Cena. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cappyboy Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [QUOTE=eric_m_keeley;180461] Personally I think Billy Kidman would have been a more comparable comparison. Dean Malenko in my eyes matches more up with the likes of Chris Benoit (yes I realize he's from Canada and he's a little big to be a true cruserwieght) but as far as the techinical level they bring to the ring, I see them comparable. But to put X-Pac as a legend in the crusierweight catagory is a slap in the face to the likes of Malenko, Mysterio and Guerrero.[/QUOTE] Sorry but no. I'm going by impact as much as skill. Which means Kidman wouldn't qualify at all for this comparison. By the time he started getting pushed in WCW, the ball was already well rolling. If anything, I'd deem Kidman as a beneficiary of X-Pac's legacy. And also keep in mind, when I turn to X-Pac, I'm talking Americans only. So Benoit would be disqualified from my point right off the top. As for putting X-Pac in the legend status with Malenko, Mysterio, and Guerrero, I'm afraid he's got the jump on them. I'll bold face this so it doesn't continue to get overlooked. SKILL WISE, YOU ARE RIGHT. BUT as far as building the American audience goes, X-Pac comes first. He was on the national stage in the US before any of those guys. If you compare the cruiserweight buildup to a snowball rolling down a hill, guys like Pillman, X-Pac and Jerry Lynn would be the stone that started the ball. Whereas Malenko and Mysterio and Guerrero, great as they all are, would be the first layer of snow. And of course, I'm skipping over guys like Jushin Liger and some of the luchadors WCW brought north of the border in the mid-90's because I'm speaking strictly from a U.S. perspective. By no means would I expect X-Pac to be held to the same legendary light in Mexico or Japan as I would have him put to here. Any more than I would put someone like Perro Aguayo on a legends tour of America. The impact just wouldn't be the same outside their home market. Look at it in baseball terms. Roy Face may not be able to hold a candle as a relief pitcher to someone like say a Rollie Fingers or a Mariano Rivera. But Face is a baseball legend because he got the ball rolling for them. Same with X-Pac compared to Mysterio and Guerrero or whatever greater legend you want to stack up to him. Without the Pillmans and the Waltmans and such setting the table, the guys you claim I devalue by recognizing X-Pac wouldn't have had as strong a stage in this country. I realize this is a radical departure from traditional Internet thought. But I stand by it. I'd certainly put X-Pac in the legend category before guys like Kamala and Koko B. Ware that the WWE has in recent time. Heck, if nothing else, being the inspiration for "X-Pac heat" gives him the edge on some of what WWE has promoted as "legends". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D16NJD16 Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [QUOTE=MrKain;180866]Yeah, I remember being at a show and they did a TNA-Style back and forth chant, except that it was completely one-sided. "Let's Go Angle" and "Cena Sucks" were the chants... and "**** You Cena!" It was great. :) I hate Cena.[/QUOTE] No even before Angle. It was with Jericho in his final feud before he left where it started. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anubis Posted January 8, 2007 Share Posted January 8, 2007 [QUOTE=mvargus;180835]I disagree. I think that the fact that there are so few deserving people in the WWE is exactly their problem and that unless they figure out how to fix this they will soon lose even more of their fanbase.[/QUOTE] I know that's WWE's problem. The reason I said it's beside the point is because we were talkign about Triple H not putting people over. :p As for WWE as a whole, yeah, the fact that no one is deserving enough for Triple H to put over is a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.