Chemistry

[Grudge]

I was curious how you wonderboys of TEW, who've experemented with these things, thought was the best way to gain the most from worker chemistry? Do you have them face off at the main event of every show or just the PPVs? Do you put them in fueds and build the heat then have a nice blowoff match for a few months or what? What is the best way to gain overness with worker chemistry. Remianen and D-lyrium I'm calling yall out, cuz you two seem to be the forum know it alls and answer all the questions any how? Please inform me?

[Akki]

Chemistry is a one time thing. The first time two workers are put into a match, their Chemistry is established, and doesn't change for the remainer of the game. It's determined by a random value assigned at the start of the game (at least that's how it was in 05). Tag team chemistry is also established the first time two workers team up as an active tag team (they must be set to partners in the Teams screen). Chemistry does allow the workers to have better matches, which can results in them gaining overness faster, so it's a good thing, but random.

[wooodaddy]

I've also been putting the two workers w/ good chemistry together in gimmick matches... probably nothing to do w/ a higher rating, I just thought it might boost it a little more...

[Akki]

[QUOTE=wooodaddy;183609]I've also been putting the two workers w/ good chemistry together in gimmick matches... probably nothing to do w/ a higher rating, I just thought it might boost it a little more...[/QUOTE] Boosting chemistry? No. But if you have let's say two Technically-skilled wrestlers who have good chemistry together and you put them into a Submission match or something else Technical-based, the match rating should increase a good bit. Though depending on your product, gimmick matches may boost the rating of a match anyway if the crowd is into gimmicks.

[Remianen]

I have to disagree with Akki. Chemistry isn't established the first time two workers work together. It's established the moment a new game is started. Just because you the user/booker don't find out about it until you have them work together doesn't mean that's when it's created. That's like saying San Marino doesn't exist because you've never been there and it comes into existence the moment you touch down there. According to the explanation Adam gave [URL="http://www.greydogsoftware.com/forum/showpost.php?p=133131&postcount=2"]here[/URL], worker chemistry is determined by their hidden destiny value. That value changes from game to game and would seem to be the thing that powers the randomization factor of the game (among many other things. I remember Adam posting something indicating the destiny value is the 'heart' of the game or something like that). So, in one game, two workers might have 'excellent' chemistry and in another, they could have 'awful' chemistry. I've had established tag teams have 'awful' chemistry (Wild Times, Lilly & Rose, The Tag Team Specialists, Samoan Wildboyz, Samoan Destruction Inc, etc) but I've also seen them have 'great' or 'excellent' chemistry. Also, as of the 1.5 patch of TEW 05, workers do not have to be a formally created tag team in order to have their chemistry (or lack thereof) noted. The first time a tag team works together, there is a high likelihood of a road agent note being generated if they have good or bad chemistry (you'll never get a note if their chemistry is neutral, unless the 'chemistry test' was done via the house show booking method). The first match they work as a formally created tag team will also give a note (again, if good or bad chemistry exists between the workers). But the idea that chemistry is 'established' the first time two workers work or team together, is flat out wrong. Workers can have chemistry in AI feds but you'd never know that until you get those workers in match under your purview. If a tree falls in the forest, a sound is made whether there's anyone there to hear it or not. Chemistry changes my plans frequently but then, I search for it in every game I play. I take my 'core' workers and tag teams and have them work against everyone on the roster, pretty much, and write down who gets on with who. Then that determines the direction of future programs and storylines. By the same token, two workers with 'awful' chemistry or who 'don't click', will never work together again from the moment I see that road agent note.

[wooodaddy]

[QUOTE=Akki;183620]Boosting chemistry? No. But if you have let's say two Technically-skilled wrestlers who have good chemistry together and you put them into a Submission match or something else Technical-based, the match rating should increase a good bit. Though depending on your product, gimmick matches may boost the rating of a match anyway if the crowd is into gimmicks.[/QUOTE] oh, I didn't mean boosting chemistry, I meant boosting match ratings...:D

[the ismailite]

[QUOTE=Remianen;183663]Chemistry changes my plans frequently but then, I search for it in every game I play. [B]I take my 'core' workers and tag teams and have them work against everyone on the roster, pretty much, and write down who gets on with who[/B]. Then that determines the direction of future programs and storylines.[B] By the same token, two workers with 'awful' chemistry or who 'don't click', will never work together again from the moment I see that road agent note.[/B][/QUOTE] How do you do this so that I may copy it to a tee. I use the undercard myself, but I was wondering what way you went about it. Also, in concerns to the second emboldened sentence, I've found (in TEW 05) that wrestlers with negative chemistry combos can still put out decent to great matches depending on the workers involved. Example, I put Bryan Vessey over Mc'Fly a few times for B+ to A*matches in a game and they Didn't click at all. I think (at least for 05) that it wasn't the negative chemistry but the [I]type[/I] of negative chemistry's that determined how bad the results of a given contest. At any rate, I don't know how this works for 2007. I have had main eventers put out crap because of bad chemistry when I was expecting C+ or better.

[Remianen]

Well, because the A/A* matches seem so much harder to achieve in 07, as opposed to 05, I just don't want to take the chance. Especially since it's likely that I have someone else on the same card level who DOES have good chemistry with that worker. In that respect, I take what the game gives me. As to how to do chemistry tests, same way as in 05. I either use dark time (if there's a large gap in card level) or put the match on during a regular show. Many, if not most, of my 'core' workers are the ones holding my titles. So I use dark matches for the tests for folks at the bottom of the card and title defenses and/or non-title matches for testing same card level or higher. Depending on roster size and/or promotion, my 'core' workers can be as few as one or as many as a dozen (and that's just singles workers, tag teams are on top of that). I usually have an entire division devoted to tag teams and they're mutually exclusive (so an established tag team will rarely, if ever, work singles matches). I also use the tag team division to test for tag team chemistry so the 'mutually exclusive' part is only in one direction (once a tag team is formally created and determined by me to be a 'tag team', they no longer work singles matches, with few exceptions). It's my way of simulating the old school full time tag teams (Road Warriors, R&R Express, etc).

[Akki]

Remi, I think you mistook my use of the word "established". Anyway, I was just trying to explain it in an easy way, as I doubt that people really care about two workers having chemistry until they have them in their promotion and even then, most don't really notice until they get the note about good or bad chemistry. Either way, the answer to the original question doesn't change. Although I do admit I was wrong on the tag team thing, as I just remember everyone complaining about that a while ago and that stuck in my mind.

[the ismailite]

[QUOTE=Remianen;183678]Well, because the A/A* matches seem so much harder to achieve in 07, as opposed to 05, I just don't want to take the chance. Especially since it's likely that I have someone else on the same card level who DOES have good chemistry with that worker. In that respect, I take what the game gives me. As to how to do chemistry tests, same way as in 05. I either use dark time (if there's a large gap in card level) or put the match on during a regular show. Many, if not most, of my 'core' workers are the ones holding my titles. So I use dark matches for the tests for folks at the bottom of the card and title defenses and/or non-title matches for testing same card level or higher. Depending on roster size and/or promotion, my 'core' workers can be as few as one or as many as a dozen (and that's just singles workers, tag teams are on top of that). I usually have an entire division devoted to tag teams and they're mutually exclusive (so an established tag team will rarely, if ever, work singles matches). I also use the tag team division to test for tag team chemistry so the 'mutually exclusive' part is only in one direction (once a tag team is formally created and determined by me to be a 'tag team', they no longer work singles matches, with few exceptions). It's my way of simulating the old school full time tag teams (Road Warriors, R&R Express, etc).[/QUOTE] Yo, I do the EXACT same thing with my Combined (tag) Divisions in every game no matter which mod. Probably because I'm ol'Skool an all. I like to have 8-10 teams if I can and top and low tiered titles as well. I Usually find or build up one team to backbone the Div while the others progess etc. I also use my teams almost exclusively in combination as opposed to singles competition. There are exceptions as in rare (DOTT) cases teams are in Horsemen like stables whereby which most of them are capable singles wrestlers. Speaking of teams and chemistry, I've also had certain bad chemistry pairings reap decent to good results. I see your point on not taking a chance on booking certain workers with bad chemistry. I'd only suggest that you make note of the types of chemistry and take into account the POP/Ability of the worker before completely writing off a storyline. It's just a suggestion but if you can determine the different chemistry situations as well as the severity of each, perhaps one can safely book certain workers against each other with the knowledge of what type of chem relationships are an extreme detriment to match ratings and which aren't so extreme. Just a thought tho. Thanks for the info btw!

[Genadi]

One of the few things I always keep track of in the notepad is chemistry, I've made many "accidental superstars" due to fantastic chemistry :D One of the best features of the game in my opinion, it can throw your booking plans into disaray in the most realistic of ways.

[Akki]

Just as an added suggestion, if you really want to keep track of chemistry, you can use a spreadsheet. Just put the name of each wrestler in the top row and then also in the leftmost collumn. Then when you find out the chemistry, put something in the box they have in common to represent what you find. I use colors, like this: White - Hasn't been tested Black - Impossible (Same worker) Green - Neutral Crimson - Slightly good Bright Red - Really good Dark Blue - Slightly bad Light Blue - Really bad Then you can duplicate the same thing for tag teams.

[Grudge]

Yeah i already keep a notepad doc that keeps up with who gets what, negative or positive from working with any wrestler, then i transfer that to the workers promotion bio so its the first thing i see before I schedule a match or storyline. But my original question was, how do yall manage a storyline when dealing with workers who have chemistry. Do you book thim as the main event for each show or not have them wrestle each other until the ppvs. I'm afraid of my storylines going stale if I book them for every show, but the ratings are good. At least until it goes stale that is, then their average. I was curious how everyone managed a storyline with said workers?

[Rob4590]

[QUOTE=Akki;183685]Just as an added suggestion, if you really want to keep track of chemistry, you can use a spreadsheet. Just put the name of each wrestler in the top row and then also in the leftmost collumn. Then when you find out the chemistry, put something in the box they have in common to represent what you find. I use colors, like this: White - Hasn't been tested Black - Impossible (Same worker) Green - Neutral Crimson - Slightly good Bright Red - Really good Dark Blue - Slightly bad Light Blue - Really bad Then you can duplicate the same thing for tag teams.[/QUOTE] Sounds very similar to me. I use an Excel spreadsheet, and I also put the highest grade that the 2 workers have acheived together in the square as well, since it helps to know further down the line if two of your workers will put on a certain rating of match, especially if you want to face off a lower card worker with a main eventer, where the ratings can be very varied. Re how to run storylines - well I guess it depends on what your focus is. If it is to concentrate on the storyline (in diary terms) and just to aim to have your big PPVs as your best shows, then just have them meet once. If you are looking to have lots of very good shows, then have them meet several times (maybe use the best of 7 story) and then they can headline multiple shows and get you good overall ratings for more than the PPV, thus increasing the size of your promotion a lot more quickly.

[Marcel Fromage]

Also use a spreadsheet exactly as Akki and Rob said. Really useful way to keep tabs on things. Currently do exactly as Rob to keep track of match rating possibilities, although I've also used the boxes before for number of singles matches people had on tv - just to make sure I varied my televised matches enough, in case I was tempted to use people with chemistry too often! Anyway, for anyone unsure how it'd look from the descriptions, here's an example (red = bad, green = good, orange = normal)... [IMG]http://i89.photobucket.com/albums/k225/MarcelFromage/TEW2007/chemistry.jpg[/IMG] I always kept a similar one for tag teams in my 2005 game (not got enough money for tag teams yet with ROF in 2007!) - in that case I kept the chemistry sheet in the same way, but typed in the boxes the number of times the workers had teamed up so I had a good idea when they would be due to go up an tag experience level. As for the storylines question...can't really answer it as I never played a fed with storylines in 2007. In 2005 if there were workers with good chemistry and I wanted to feud them, I might have them start with a tv match which would cause the feud to start. Then have a PPV match at the end of that month. Then just keep them meeting on PPVs for a while, but mixing it up to make the feud last a few months (e.g. throw them in a tag match or triangle midway through). Once the storyline was over and they'd moved on to other feuds, you could always throw the match in occasionally on tv again to give yourself a known quality match to boost your show ratings. I always figured doing it that way stopped it from getting too stale. But I'm sure others have vastly different ways of doing things - that's the beauty of the game!

[cyberkitten01]

Forgive me for not reading any of the replies, looks like you guys are getting pretty in depth right now When I get two workers with great chemistry, I find that their first match may get a C+, then their second match a B- etc (not saying it'll go up a whole grade every time, but the more they wrestle the better the match result tends to get). I imagine this is mostly because of the quality of their first match, both guy's/girl's overness goes up a little as well as their skills maybe, and then their next match takes these boosts and probably a momentum boost into account :)

[Remianen]

Oy, don't start with the spreadsheets. I have a spreadsheet for every savegame with a sheet/tab for every one of my core workers and tag teams. That's where I put their chemistry as well as their monthly skill progression. But for the most part, I keep chemistry in a seperate document (usually in the game's notepad that I periodically transfer to a Word document) to have it at my fingertips as often as possible. I see Marcel's point about using workers with chemistry too much but I avoid that by checking worker Match History prior to booking. Plus, a good portion of my booking is done months in advance (with my core workers, at least) so their matchups are usually broken up better. And Akki, I apologize if I misunderstood what you were saying. I'm a chemistry whore (obviously, given how much whining I did about it in 05 :p) so seeing 'pretty good' or 'excellent' chemistry notes makes my eyes light up.

[Akki]

Yeah, I get it. I'm sure everyone has their moments, though. Like when two guys you just happen to tag up or face off have great chemistry, it's like Christmas come early sometimes. On the other hand, if you start a storyline between two talented guys and their chemistry is awful... Computers beware my wrath!

[D-Lyrium]

I generally don't pay much attention to chemistry. It's nice to have, obviously, and if two workers have chemistry, I'll bare that in mind for a possible future feud, but I won't change any plans due to chemistry (or lack thereof).

[Guest Ransik]

I run the options for House Shows to see how well their chemistry works and if it gets positive feedback I make a storyline with them the next time both are available. Or if the tag chemistry is good I work them into a team if they're not in the Main Event. So far I have Eddy and Malenko in a great feud over the Cruiserweight Title and I found out just in time that Luger & Sting suck as a tag team. Use your House Shows, it's what they're there for.

[the ismailite]

Personally, I don't like storylines as I feel they are too restrictive (just an opinion). I rarely if ever used them in 2005. That said, I couldn't tell you how positive/negative chem affects them in 2007. As for chemisry, like D-lyrium, depending on the workers involved, I'll either ignore or take advantage of their chemistry. I'm not gonna push Buddy Wolfe (DOTT) who has excellent chemistry with Paul Orndorff am I? Heck no! I'll put Orndorff against Wolfe to improve Orndorfff's pop but then I'm Jobbbing Wolfe back down to obscurity. If I were booking those two within the context of storylines, Im sure I'd let nature take it's course. I'm confused on this though Grudge. Are you asking if workers having positive chemistry can have a negative affect on storylines due to matches/angles growing stale? If so, that's a good question. I'm curious to know this myself. I don't think that it would as I feel (having no true knowledge) that' good chemistry between workers wouuld only serve to increase the match ratings of the workers involved in the storyline. I'm sure their match ratings will drop from repeated efforts (if the storyline calls for it), but would it drop as low as if the workers involved had no chemistry at all? That said, can workers with good chemistry have a bad match? I know that under certain conditions,workers with negative chemistry can have good matches so I am assumiing this could be the case. Again, I don't know for sure. Good thread btw! EDIT: I do know that storylines are rated based off the Match or angle ratings of the workers involved. Given this, most probably if the workers are getting bad ratings, then the storylines heat will be a reflection of that. I don't think that a storyline that calls for 4-5 matches between workers with good chem is going to grow stale is my point. If they are booked in bad angles then yeah, but if they are getting good matches ( not some ungodly # of matches either) then I think your storylines will do fine if not better than if the workers had no chemistry. In short, were I you, I'd book the workers through to the end of the storyline. That, or I'd end it as soon as possible (after three points have been completed.).

[Remianen]

I use storylines extensively, running 5SSW. Difference is, they're all unchained. Pre-fab storylines are too rigid plus I ran into a few that were broken or incorrect in some way and didn't feel like troubleshooting every last one of them (to make sure they all work correctly). I have yet to see any indication that repetition is frowned upon. I've run a feud between Cherry Bomb & Sara Marie York that saw them face each other in EVERY event in 2007, in escalating fashion. As they got more over, their ratings kept going up so why not? :)