PeterHilton
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Posts posted by PeterHilton
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No where in that article I read a coach say the NFL is harder than College. Their been thing was it's different. Now, they did say that they had to put more time in and be on point.
Ohhh....somehow i misconstrued more time and more attention as meaning 'harder' My bad
Again..."I gave this advice to Butch when he was thinking of going to Cleveland," Johnson says. "'Don't count on having the same success in Cleveland that we had in Dallas. Things fell right for us. You can stay at Miami, you probably won't make as much money and you may not satisfy your ego, but you can win 10 or 11 games a year and have a family life. Don't count on any of those things if you go to Cleveland.'
That - to me - sounds like he's saying it was harder.
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The second bold is when you said Yes it was harder to coach in the NFL. The first bold is talking about how it's harder to be a success.
You're nitpicking. Seriously. Did I have to be that specific for you? By 'harder to coach' did you think I wasn't alluding to the idea that it was harder to coach and actually succeed?
Again..YOU posted that article. That thing doesn't say it's "different" it says it's harder.
I think both OT's are flawed, but I do like the fact that a coin flip doesn't decide the whole game. I believe the perfect OT system would be NFL's mixed with college. Kick it off, first team to score is in the lead. Then the next team has one drive to catch up (I believe that's kind of what they are changing it to).Yes.
Also Green was another one of those pro coaches who sucked in college.You're naming individual exceptions. They are still exceptions.
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Wait a second... so you don't like to see scoring in football, huh? You think college OT is a joke and you dislike it because more points are scored? I like seeing TDs and awesome offensive/defensive plays. College OT is one of the most exciting ways to end a tie. I've never seen a college OT that I didn't enjoy.
Any examples of college games turning into 120 point shootouts?
I didn't say he was a great coach or a defense genius. I just think your prediction is way out out in left field when we haven't even seen one game yet. Do I think they're going to the Super Bowl? No. Do I think they have a legitimate chance to be a contender in the NFC West? Yes, I do.
I don't like it because it turns a football game played under specific rules into some kind of mini-game passing drill you'd find in Madden. Both teams should get the ball..but under normal football circumstances. That's it.
And again..how is it 'out in left field' based on the track record of college coaches? How? Based on years of history, what's more likely..that he flames out or that he succeeds and goes to the playoffs this year?
Hell..name the last college coach that went o the NFL and even kept their job longer than three seasons.
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So hold on, you went from the NFL is a harder to coach..... to it's harder to be a success
Are you high? I referenced what the article said. Christ, it's YOUR post. Read it.
It says that it's harder to coach and succeed in the NFL.
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I agree, But saying he was a success at Oregon I can't agree with
Based on what?
Oregon was a total loser when he got there. He took them to bowl games, won a Pac 10 title, and went to a Rose Bowl. This is pre-Nike money Oregon...the fact he did that much with that bad a program showed a lot.
And again...back to the initial point..YOU brought him up as an NFL guy who failed in college.
And I'm saying that he was a decent college coach who flamed out in the NFL (which he did) and then went back to college and succeeded (which you agreed to)
which proves my point.
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How is it a joke? You end up playing continuous OT until there's a winner. In the NFL we get maybe a few good passes and a FG for the win - the losing team feels screwed because they may or may not have had an opportunity to score. In college everyone has a chance and the defense has to play harder than they have the entire game. When you start at the 25 yard line and have to score within the Red Zone - where defenses play their BEST - how is that a joke? Please elaborate.
It's a joke because you end up with teams going back and forth playing TD ping pong. It looks ridiculous.
The NFL OT isn't ideal..but I'd rather make some adustments on that then watch the college OT where teams are turning 21-21 ties into 120 point shoot-outs.
That's a pretty bold prediction about Carroll considering the season is months and months away. The division he's in is crap, he had a good draft, he's a defensive-minded coach, and he walked into the PERFECT SITUATION. If he's gone after three seasons I'd be surprised because the entire Seahawks staff would be gone as well... considering the franchise is practically starting fresh this year with a new GM and coaching staff.I live in LA. He's not as great a coach as the national media portrays. He's not some defensive genius. Staffs get turned over in the NFL all the time.
And based on the history of college coaches in the NFL, it's really not that bold a prediction.
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Weis was still a coach in the NFL, I never said anything about Head Coaches. Brook was 91-109 at Oregon (success?) and yes he manged to turn Kentucky into a 5th best team in the SEC East
I was. That was my whole point.
And don't be snide Gatorbait. Taking Kentucky from where it was to three straight bowl games makes him a success. You know that's true.
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I've never heard one single person - let alone every single person - say that, and the reason for that is THEY HAVEN'T. Different? Yes. Easier? No.
OK..one..are you guys reading the same article? I feel like you're not. Because we're referencing a piece that contains about 20 quotes from people in the league that all said it was harder to succeed in the NFL.
Look..I'll give you examples:
"I go with the idea that if you can coach, you can coach at any level," Green says. "But I do think a guy coming into the pro game without any experience as a pro assistant has a more difficult time."
"I gave this advice to Butch when he was thinking of going to Cleveland," Johnson says. "'Don't count on having the same success in Cleveland that we had in Dallas. Things fell right for us. You can stay at Miami, you probably won't make as much money and you may not satisfy your ego, but you can win 10 or 11 games a year and have a family life. Don't count on any of those things if you go to Cleveland.'
Different? Yes. Tougher? Not in the least. It's a different skillset, a different job. So different, in fact, that it would be downright silly to even attempt to argue that one is harder than the other. It's apples and oranges. What might be harder for one person could be easier for another. There's nothing about the NFL that makes it inherently more difficult to coach than college.Again..I'm going to go ahead and trust with the articles I've read in countless sports magazines, the bios I've read, the interviews I've heard etc.
Here's some more stuff from Jimmy Johnson (since apparently you've never heard him say this kind of thing before):
Still, Johnson was surprised at how small the margin for error was once he was hired by the Cowboys. "You can be sloppy in college and still win," says Johnson, who made the transition better than anyone. "You can't in pro."
"It's a long season with no easy weeks," Johnson says. "It can wear on you, and it's hard to keep your guys up. In college, you point for certain weeks. In the pros, you have to be steady."
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Ahh...not really familiar with that term, so I guess I misinterpreted.
No worries.
Phenomenal segment on NXT with Bryan/Cole/Miz. Bryan continues to show an ability to 'act' and cut a better-than-expected-by-most promo
And Cole was solid too.They might as well run with him as the heel announcer since Jerry is useless.
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Hm, so then why did Pro coaches that came down have trouble (Weis, Brooks)
Weis was a coordinator. I'm talking about head coaches.
Why do you keep mentioning Rich Brooks? Considering he was a success at Oregon, struggled with the Rams, then went and turned a crappy little program like Kentucky into a competitive team in the SEC, he proves my point.
And as Bigpapa said..that article says specifically in several different ways that the NFL is tougher. Not just different. But tougher.
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I thought Rock was pretty good. Maybe not a technician on par with an Angle or Benoit, but I always thought he had pretty solid skills, in addition to his obviously incredible charisma and ability to get the crowd involved. I feel much the same way about Cena, even if I despise his character.
Pretty much what I meant by 'no great shakes'..doesn't mean he's anywhere near being terrible.
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You could go on, but since you already made ridiculous comments on the quality of Gorgeous George and Jerry Lawler, nobody with any sense would take you seriously. They were both pretty freaking good in the ring. To consider Lawler one of the worst workers you've seen makes me wonder how little wrestling you have watched.
George was actually really good. His matches did open up with more antics than ring action. But again..was he famous for his ringwork? Or for the act?
Lawler...? Like I said I don't like him, his act, his territory..
And he was a very basic worker. I don't know about 'freaking good' but yeah maybe he wasn't terrible.
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Jerry Lawler wasn't THAT bad in the ring. There's been worst. Yes, he's basic in the ring - but he wasn't so bad as to be the botchfests of dooms.
Considering how long he was on top of Memphis, he was one of the worst workers I've seen.
(My opinion is biased though; I can't stand him or 99% of the stuff that ran in Memphis. )
But again..he proves my point: he wasn't innovative or spectacular in the ring, but he knew how to get his crowds worked up.
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Hulk Hogan: arguably the greatest heel of all time? I strongly disagree. Hollywood Hogan and the nWo were hot for a year and a half to two years, sure, but I don't think he had the staying power/track record as a heel to deserve that kind of praise.
Fair enough. I'd say the sheer amount of heat he drew plus the fact that his turn created such a shift in the industry deserves consideration though.
So you watch Wrestling for lame moves?Personally I like the flipping and such. I was never a fan of Hogans antics. Like I said I enjoyed his ploy, but he had no talent in the ring.
I watch wrestling to be entertained. Period.
The Rock was no great shakes in the ring. Huge draw.
Stone Cold's hottest period was during his lowest point in terms of in-ring work.
Bruno Sammartino? Basic brawler.
Gorgeous George? A 20 minute slapfest.
Jerry Lawler? One of the biggest single draw in terms of a single territory and arguably one of the worst workers I've seen.
I can go on but you get my point...PRO WRESTLING has never been about who is capable of being the best wrestler. It's about who is the best entertainer.
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For some reason he was. No talent either.
This shows that you pretty much have no idea how the wrestling business works. Like...not one clue.
The entire point of pro wrestling is to make people want to pay money to see you. That's it.
It's not about flipping around the ring or workrate or movesets or any of these other bullsh*t terms that internet wrestling nerds love so much.
Can you make people care so much about what you do in character, in the ring, that they are willing to go to the arena, buy a ppv, turn on their tv, buy your merchandise...?
If you can make people PAY TO SEE YOU you are a good worker (the history of the industry is littered with guys who weren't mind blowing in the ring but were still insanely hot draws). As jbergey said, he's arguably the greatest heel and greatest face of all time. He's been one of if not the bigest draw in the business for damn near 30 years.
If you ask me, Hogan is the greatest PRO WRESTLER EVER.
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But can we truly say that College football is easier to coach than the pros?
Yes.
Because every single person in the business of football who's done both has said so.
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I'll be gentle.
I wonder if it would work if wrestling took a step back and tried to pretend they were a legitimate sport again.Can't. Can't do it legally due to sports licensing issues. Cant do it from a PR standpoint because actual legit fighting sports would make them look stupid.
You know instead of having Triple H get to the top of the card and stay there for 15 years you have the guys in their late 20's early 30s take over the top spots for awhile until the next batch matures.Not a bad idea. This probably has more to do with the E needing to rely on a certain amount of predictability to generate revenue. If you KNOW a guy can draw, it's hard for them to justify moving him of his spot.
I find it just gets old after 3-4 years(same top guys, same feuds, same everything). I loved the WWF as kid in the late 80's early 90s then I stopped watching until around 05. I actually found it interesting for a couple of years now I am feeling the same way because nothing ever changes.See above. good point though.
I just wonder if their isnt a lot more they could do with their product to keep it fresh.The WWE coming out as an entertainment fed may have helped in the short term but I also think it may have topped out at that point.
This is just my opinion and I am sure a lot of people will not agree before I get bashed too hard.
To be fair...they 'came out' as an entertainment fed in the mid 80s. They are the essentially the only name in their industry and have destroyed all their major competition and there's n end in sight.
That's not exactly short term.
A lot of it has to do with who they're marketing to. They've made a conscious decision to not worry about the 'smart' or 'hardcore' fans. If you stop watching now and come back in 6 months or so, you'll pick up all the storylines after watching one or two episodes. (Ive done it..it's easy)
They WANT the casual fan, which leads to a slower, more predictable, easier to relate to product. For better or worse.
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To just bases the fact that Recruiting instantly means everything is wrong. If that was the case Notre Dame and USC would never lose. Coaches play a big role in how the games are played.
Not as much as in the NFL.
College coaches - even the highly successful ones - more often than not flame out. That's just a fact.
And getting better talent IS a big part of the equation. Spurrier - as an example - never really had to gameplan that much because his guys were just better than almost everyone he faced (back then the SEC wasn't the beast it is now; he's probably be in over his head if he'd stayed at Florida as well).
Saban left because he failed. Petrino left because he failed. Erickson got fired because he failed. Carroll was a failure. Butch Davis failed. Lou Holtz. Rich Brooks.
In college, talent hides your deficiencies as a coach. In the NFL, it doesn't.
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No no no, she watched the XFL the whole first season.
Big difference between watching sports and actually relating to and geting along with the frat boy mentality.
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Well, no ****, Sherlock. I never said WCW didn't prove this. TNA is only more proof of this.
What the real issue is, at a time when they need to doing well, they are doing badly. They are a joke among casual AND internet fans. That's just pitiful.
It was a joke aimed at Hyde. Calm down.
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Ok I see The Miz has a big net following, but why?
Really the guy is a jackass on and off the screen. He really has no talent. I just hate the guy. He really is not awesome. Ok maybe...maybe even slightly good.....awesome...NO...just...no.
Honestly, that's just a difference of opinion. i don't think he's that great persnally, but he's clearly been able to get the crowds to buy into him and -more importantly than anything - he elicits a response.
He gets a good old fashioned "i hate this guy and i want someone to punch him in the face" heel reaction from the crowd. And that's his job.
The fact that his "catchphrase" is trite and lame and a billion percent predictable makes him even more heelish.
If Spencer from The Hills was a wrestler, he'd be The Miz. And that's exactly what he;s going for IMO. So ..he's doing his job.
That's his talent.
(not sure why you think he's a jackass of the screen. you must have a low tolerance for the jock/meathed type)
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TNA is proof you can have great workers, but crappy angles, crappy storylines, and even crappier booking means the it's near unwatchable as a whole.
WCW proved this years ago.
(waits for Hyde's head to explode at umpteenth WCW reference
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Yeah. As bad as it's been, if you're TNA you have to be relieved to be back at where ya were.
That's true.
Yep last year they averaged around 1.1 - 1.2 so that is what they at least need to do to have the same size of first time viewers. Some are arguing that they have lost fans but that they have been replaced with paying fans. Say loss of 0.4 non payers gone and 0.2 payers gained. Still this is hard to verify. The big bad is the merchandising. Their sales should be much higher now, while they are higher but not as could be expected, with Hogan and RVD and Hardy. Their contracts should/could pay for themselves. Same goes for extra international expansion. They have signed a contract in Saudi Arabia now but if that is because those names are on board now is a question.Interesting. Honestly, if that were the case, then it's worth it. I'd much rather have 0.4 of the TNA internet dorks (or the 'passionate faithful' as I'm sure they'd prefer to be called) in exchange for 0.2 of an audience that will pay for PPVs and merch.
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But yeah before the Kurt Angles, Mic Foley's, Hulk Hogans, Flairs, RVD's,Hardy's etc. and now low and behold there is roster cuts going around.
Before those?Yknow..it's gonna be close IIRC the Impact shows before Angle were in the low 0.7's at their absolute best. He may have been the first (and only) signing that atually created a long term bump in the ratings. i could be wrong though.
They were both pretty freaking good in the ring. To consider Lawler one of the worst workers you've seen makes me wonder how little wrestling you have watched.
Official NFL Discussion Thread
in The Dog Pound
Posted
Mooch? Really? He was out of the NFL for like 5 minutes.
Jim Caldwell? He's been on the Colts staff since 01
And again..you're throwing out exceptions when I could list 20 more failures. It's a prevailing trend.
And yes..Saban quit. SO he failed.