Benoit Dead

[darkfire423]

[QUOTE=PeterHilton;251074]Not to be incresingly morbid, but I was listening to a radio show and they were talking about the mortality rate amongst pro wrestlers. Here is a portion of the list of wrestlers who have died before the age of 65 in recent years from about.com: [B]Famous Wrestlers That Have Died Since 1985 Before the Age of 65[/B]Chris Von Erich - 21 Mike Von Erich - 23 Louie Spiccoli - 27 Art Barr - 28 Gino Hernandez - 29 Jay Youngblood - 30 Rick McGraw - 30 Joey Marella - 30 Ed Gatner - 31 Buzz Sawyer - 32 Crash Holly - 32 Kerry Von Erich - 33 D.J. Peterson - 33 Eddie Gilbert - 33 The Renegade - 33 Owen Hart - 33 Chris Candido - 33 Adrian Adonis - 34 Gary Albright - 34 Bobby Duncum Jr. - 34 Yokozuna - 34 Big Dick Dudley - 34 Brian Pillman - 35 Marianna Komlos - 35 Pitbull #2 - 36 The Wall/Malice - 36 Leroy Brown - 38 Mark Curtis - 38 Eddie Guerrero - 38 Davey Boy Smith - 39 Johnny Grunge - 39 Vivian Vachon - 40 Jeep Swenson - 40 Brady Boone - 40 Terry Gordy - 40 Bertha Faye - 40 Billy Joe Travis - 40 Chris Benoit - 40 Larry Cameron - 41 Rick Rude - 41 Randy Anderson - 41 Bruiser Brody - 42 Miss Elizabeth - 42 Big Boss Man - 42 Earthquake - 42 Mike Awesome - 42 Ray Candy - 43 Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43 Dino Bravo - 44 Curt Hennig - 44 Bam Bam Bigelow - 45 Jerry Blackwell - 45 Junkyard Dog - 45 Hercules - 45 Andre the Giant - 46 Big John Studd - 46 Chris Adams - 46 Mike Davis - 46 Hawk - 46 Dick Murdoch - 49 Jumbo Tsuruta - 49 Rocco Rock - 49 Sherri Martel - 49 I just went to the age of 50, but you get my point. What the f*ck is wrong with this business?[/QUOTE] To blame wrestling for all these deaths is wrong Joey Marella - 30 - Auto Accident D.J. Peterson - 33 - Truck Accident Owen Hart - 33 - Accidental Fall Chris Candido - 33 - Pneumonia Adrian Adonis - 34 - Auto Accident Big Dick Dudley - 34 - Kidney Failure Marianna Komlos - 35 - Breast Cancer Mark Curtis - 38 - Cancer Johnny Grunge - 39 - Sleep Apnea ( I have it and there is a good chance that i might die from it as well) Vivian Vachon - 40 - Auto Accident Brady Boone - 40 - Auto Accident Randy Anderson - 41 - Cancer Bruiser Brody - 42 - Was Killed Earthquake - 42 - Cancer Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43 - Was Killed Dino Bravo - 44 - Was Killed Junkyard Dog - 45 - Auto Accident Hercules - 45 - Dies in sleep Big John Studd - 46 - Hodgkin's Disease Jumbo Tsuruta - 49 - Hepatitis B Sherri Martel - 49 - Unknown Cause at this time I am giving you the list of Heart Attacks. Which a few really don't shock me (Yokozuna, Dick Murdoch, Andre), they could have been cause by drug use in the past or at the time of death. Or could be a legit heart attack that just came out of the blue. Really you also might want to think about how wrestling exploded in the 80's and 90's. There are a lotmore wrestlers and companies around now than in the 50's-70's possible put together. So for that fact you have a higher number of people who are wrestlers. Numbers alone have to play in to it. I will not fight for wrestling any more. But to blame it 100 % is wrong. People die every day, in every way. These just happen to work in the same job. How many fast food workers die in a year, let alone 22 years. To blame wrestling is to say that every wrestling company will give their workers the means to die young. Not true.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=darkfire423;251333]To blame wrestling for all these deaths is wrong Joey Marella - 30 - Auto Accident D.J. Peterson - 33 - Truck Accident Owen Hart - 33 - Accidental Fall Chris Candido - 33 - Pneumonia Adrian Adonis - 34 - Auto Accident Big Dick Dudley - 34 - Kidney Failure Marianna Komlos - 35 - Breast Cancer Mark Curtis - 38 - Cancer Johnny Grunge - 39 - Sleep Apnea ( I have it and there is a good chance that i might die from it as well) Vivian Vachon - 40 - Auto Accident Brady Boone - 40 - Auto Accident Randy Anderson - 41 - Cancer Bruiser Brody - 42 - Was Killed Earthquake - 42 - Cancer Nancy Benoit (Woman) - 43 - Was Killed Dino Bravo - 44 - Was Killed Junkyard Dog - 45 - Auto Accident Hercules - 45 - Dies in sleep Big John Studd - 46 - Hodgkin's Disease Jumbo Tsuruta - 49 - Hepatitis B Sherri Martel - 49 - Unknown Cause at this time I am giving you the list of Heart Attacks. Which a few really don't shock me (Yokozuna, Dick Murdoch, Andre), they could have been cause by drug use in the past or at the time of death. Or could be a legit heart attack that just came out of the blue. Really you also might want to think about how wrestling exploded in the 80's and 90's. There are a lotmore wrestlers and companies around now than in the 50's-70's possible put together. So for that fact you have a higher number of people who are wrestlers. Numbers alone have to play in to it. I will not fight for wrestling any more. But to blame it 100 % is wrong. People die every day, in every way. These just happen to work in the same job. How many fast food workers die in a year, let alone 22 years. To blame wrestling is to say that every wrestling company will give their workers the means to die young. Not true.[/QUOTE] I'm not going to belabour the point. But Owen died because of a stunt at a wrestling event. Candido died from complications related to a surgery to repair an injury sustained while performing for TNA. Bruiser Brody was kiled by a wrestling promoter.And Hercules Hernandez didn't just "die in his sleep." It was heart failure, which can often be associated with steroid use. Those are all circumstances directly related to their profession as wrestlers. There's really no other way to look at it. Even if you take away the accidental deaths, wrestlers die at younger at a far higher frequency than most of the populace. Not saying it's 100% the fault of wrestling. But its a big factor.

[xDRMx]

Well, I haven't read this whole thread and to be honest I really don't have any desire to anymore, so I don't really know what everyone elses feelings on this situation is so if I say something that offends you, or that you agree with or not whatever the case may be then I appoligize/thank you/whatever...this just seemed like as good a place as any to put this. Ok that being said... I don't post on here much but I've been a lurker for years. I started playing the EW series back when it was a simple little game with an ugly (sorry adam) interface and I've followed it from there through .400 SS and finally to GDS. So I know that not many (if any) of you know me, but I know a lot of you. I've been a wrestling fan for about 25 of my 28 years, i consider myself a life-long wrestling fan and in that time I have been to events in New York, Philly, Japan, and especially all over the south and mid-south areas, I had trips planned to various states to see ROH, RAW/Smackdown/ECW, TNA and a few NWA and indy promotions this summer. I have loved pro wrestling for as long as I can remember and I have seen some amazing things, and some very sad moments, I was in Texas when I was a kid for a tribute show for a member of one of my favorite wrestling families, I was in KC when one of my favorite wrestlers died and I was at a RAW show when I found out that another one of my heros had passed on. I watch old tapes of some of my favorite wrestlers that I grew up watching and suddenly realize that nearly everyone involved in the match, sometimes even the ref, is dead. I don't read many wrestling news sites because i want to be suprised when something happens. This message board and a few friends I've made that are involved in the business are about the only source of "insider" info that I have, and I like it that way. So last night when I tuned into RAW expecting to see more of the rediculous "McMahon is dead" story, needless to say I was a bit shocked to see him and even more shocked to learn that yet another one of my favorites was gone. I don't really know all of the details and at this point I don't think I really want to know anymore. I send condolences and best wishes to every single one of Chris Benoit's family, friends, and fans, wether you feel anger, sadness, or if you are like me and don't know what you feel, this is a tough time for everyone. The one thing that I do know is that for the first time in 25 years I can say that I have no future plans that involve pro wrestling. I'm not saying that I won't become a fan again at some point, but for now I'm done. I've had a lot of bad things happen in my life over the past 5 or so years and wrestling was always my escape, but since last night wrestling just isn't fun for me anymore. By no means am I passing judment on anyone, and being agnostic I have no religious reasons for this. I'm just simply done with wrestling. So to Adam, thanks for the great game...to any of you that I know, or that knows me (I used to go by "HHH is GOD" on the PW and EW boards) its been fun...and to any wrestlers (if any) that may stumble onto this post, thank you for everything.

[sprinklefurball]

This is something I came up with: [quote]RIP to all of professional wrestling, welcome back to the early 90's. If I'm not mistaken pro wrestling was on a slight rise until the other day. Now, not only will it decline, but I don't know how I can watch matches anymore... What do you do when one of your idols for the past 8 years not only dies, but murders his wife, his 7-year old child, and commits suicide? I want to give my regards to anyone involved in the wrestling world, anyone who cares about profesional wrestling, anyone who puts up with it, and the extended families of Chris and Nancy Benoit. I wanted to write this last night. I want this not to be real. Chris Benoit was one of the greatest wrestlers, not only of today, but possibly of all time, and will never end up in any wrestling hall of fame, not because of a lack of wrestling skills (although he wasn't the best interview, he was the greatest technical wrestler of this time), lack of accomplishments (he is a former WWE Champion, and was set to wrestle for the ECW World Title, when he told WWE officials he had to go home due to a family emergency). You wanna know what I'm going to admit? I have lost no respect for Chris Benoit's wrestling career, possibly if I watch his matches I might feel a little sick. However, as a person, I don't know what the **** happened... In 2003, when WWE opened up WWE Niagara Falls, I had a chance to get an autograph from Trish Stratus, Val Venis, and Chris Benoit, who were all at the grand opening of the park/amusement/shop/ride. Now Benoit wasn't in the best mood at that time (due to his neck being injured at the time). He tried his best to be warm when my sister, Danielle (now known as Independent Pro Wrestling/Manager Ferrari) gave him a compliment. I honestly don't know what to think anymore... or how to think... I am a mark at heart, and just can't accept something like this as it is , however, can anyone who saw the vince mcmahon death storyline honestly say that they did not see something, anything like this happening to destroy that storyline. I'm incoherent and rambling. I don't understand how or why Chris did this not only to his Wife, but to his 7-year old son. How can anyone commit suicide either? Will this be the death of wrestling like I stated at the beginning? I don't know... But, I have a feeling it will change alot, very fast. My regards go out to all of the people of whom Woman (Nancy Benoit/Sullivan) and Chris Benoit have touched. And would like to set out one possible question what the **** makes someone who appears to have so much do something, anything like this... Congrats Benoit, you may have just destroyed the business you lived and loved your whole entire life.[/quote]

[MightyDavidson]

[QUOTE=sprinklefurball;251370]This is something I came up with:[/QUOTE] Destroyed the business? How is this going to destroy the wrestling business, honestly? Destroyed his legacy? Most certainly. Destroyed my desire to ever watch my Chris Benoit DVD again? Most definetly. But destroyed the wrestling business? Hardly. Oh sure it might chase away a few casual fans but those who watched the WWE product regularly probably won't stop because Benoit was a killer. There'll probably be a lull in attendence for awhile, but nothing that's going to put the WWE out of business.

[NickC13573]

it did setback the wrestling industry.

[tristram]

[QUOTE=MightyDavidson;251391]Destroyed the business? How is this going to destroy the wrestling business, honestly? Destroyed his legacy? Most certainly. Destroyed my desire to ever watch my Chris Benoit DVD again? Most definetly. But destroyed the wrestling business? Hardly. Oh sure it might chase away a few casual fans but those who watched the WWE product regularly probably won't stop because Benoit was a killer. There'll probably be a lull in attendence for awhile, but nothing that's going to put the WWE out of business.[/QUOTE] Look, destroyed the business is going over the top, but this is going to bring about a lot of flack for the business. It would not surprise me if news groups or lobbyists start also breeding into their stories about the hoardes of young wrestlers who end up dying young, for a variety of perhaps controllable reasons. When you paint all that together, the industries image won't look like a pot of gold. I can imagine many a parent looking at blocking their kids from watching the shows TBH.... I personally think though if some sort of soul searching doesn't happen from within to try and stop these avalanche of tragedies, then eventually the toll might become too much to bare for a large part of wrestling's target market, and the industry will dry up somewhat. This won't shut it down, but 10-20 more years of what we've seen over the past few years with the tragedies that have come about are going to make people enormously circumspect of the industry.

[Von Dozier]

WWE also updated their time line majorly. [URL="http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/detailedbenoittimeline"]http://www.wwe.com/inside/news/detailedbenoittimeline[/URL] [QUOTE=WWE.com]Below is a detailed WWE/Chris Benoit timeline from Saturday to Monday: Saturday, June 23, 2007 Chris Benoit was scheduled to appear at the WWE SmackDown/ ECW live event in Beaumont, Texas 3:30pm A co-worker received a voice message from Benoit. The message from Benoit stated he missed his flight and over slept and would be late to the WWE Live Event. The co-worker called Benoit back, Benoit confirmed everything he said in his voice message and sounded tired and groggy. Benoit then stated, “I love you”. The co-worker stated that it was “out of context.” 3:42pm The same co-worker was concerned with Benoit’s tone and demeanor and called Benoit for a second time. Benoit did not answer the call and the co-worker left a message stating “just call me back.” 3:44pm Benoit called the co-worker back stating he didn’t answer the call because he was on the phone with Delta changing his flight. Benoit stated he had a real stressful day due to Nancy and Daniel being sick with food poisoning. They discussed travel plans for the WWE Tour of Texas with Benoit still sounding groggy at this point according to the co-worker. 4:30pm A co-worker who consistently travels with Benoit, called Benoit from outside Houston airport and Benoit answered. Benoit told the co-worker that Nancy was throwing up blood and that Daniel was also throwing up. Benoit thought they had food poisoning. Benoit stated he changed his flight and he would be arriving into Houston at 6:30pm. Benoit told the co-worker to drive onto the WWE event. 5:35pm Benoit called WWE Talent Relations stating that his son was throwing up and that he and Nancy were in the hospital with their son, and that Benoit would be taking a later flight into Houston, landing late, but would make the WWE live event in Beaumont. 6:10pm A representative of Talent Relations called Benoit. The representative from Talent Relations asked Benoit what time Benoit was getting into Beaumont. Benoit responded he was leaving Atlanta at 9:20pm Eastern time arriving into Houston at 9:24pm Central time. The representative from Talent Relations advised Benoit that it would be too late to make the WWE live event in Beaumont. Benoit apologized citing he had a family emergency. The representative from Talent Relations suggested to Benoit that instead of going to the WWE live event in Beaumont, Benoit should take the flight to Houston, rest up and be ready for the Vengeance Pay-Per-View event. 6:13pm The representative from Talent Relations called Benoit to reconfirm the travel plans with no answer from Benoit. The representative from Talent Relations left a voice message to take the flight and rest up. Sunday, June 24, 2007 Text messages sent to co-workers from Chris Benoit and Nancy Benoit’s cell phones: Text Message 1 Sent to: Two Co-Workers (the same who had verbal correspondence with Benoit the day before) From: Benoit’s cell phone When: 6/24 at 3:53am from Message: C, S. My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215 Text Message 2 Sent to: Two Co-Workers (the same who had verbal correspondence with Benoit the day before) From: Benoit’s cell phone When: 6/24 at 3:53am Message: The dogs are in the enclosed pool area. Garage side door is open Text Message 3 Sent to: Two Co-Workers (the same who had verbal correspondence with Benoit the day before) From: Nancy Benoit’s cell phone When: 6/24 at 3:54am Message: C, S. My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215 Text Message 4 Sent to: Two Co-Workers (the same who had verbal correspondence with Benoit the day before) From: Nancy Benoit’s cell phone When: 6/24 at 3:55am Message: C, S. My physical address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215 Text Message 5 Sent to: A Co-Worker who consistently traveled with Benoit From: Nancy Benoit’s cell phone When: 6/24 at 3:58am Message: My address is 130 Green Meadow Lane. Fayetteville Georgia. 30215 WWE made several attempts to contact Benoit via phone and text messages, as well as, the local hospitals in the Atlanta area. As of 11:00 pm Sunday night there was no contact made with Benoit. Monday, June 25, 2007 12:30pm WWE was notified of text messages sent to the two co-workers. 12:45pm WWE contacted the Fayetteville County Sheriff’s office and requested them to go to Benoit’s residence 4:00pm WWE received a call from the Fayetteville County Sheriff’s office, advising that they entered the house of Benoit and found 3 deceased bodies (a male, a female and a child). The Fayetteville Sheriff’s office has secured the house as a “major crime scene” and that the Fayetteville County Sheriff’s Office had no further information.[/QUOTE] Also some speculation that the "C, S" in the text messages stands for Chavo, and possibly Steven Regal

[dvdWarrior]

If steriods were involved, Lord only knows what might happen, it could get pretty rough for a publicly-traded company like WWE, public perception and all. I don't have any knowledge in that particular area though. Jim Ross has commented on the matter: [url]http://www.lordsofpain.net/news/2007/articles/1182903371.php[/url] "The details that are now coming out of the police investigation are beyond my comprehension. I don’t even know how to respond to them," he said. That's how I'm feeling too.

[The Ego]

Marty Jannetty hit it bang on - [QUOTE][B]Date - 25 Jun 2007 15:28 Subject - please tell me Chris Benoit and family is NOT really dead!! [/B] Body: WWE is reporting that Chris Benoit and his family has all been found dead in their home...I'm just trying to get my mind right to be a pawl bearer at Sherri's funeral....and...Chris being another good friend...come on man..some one tell me either this is a stupid a stroyline...or....am I ****in dreaming???? or in hell!!! [/QUOTE]

[darkfire423]

[QUOTE=PeterHilton;251340]I'm not going to belabour the point. But Owen died because of a stunt at a wrestling event. Candido died from complications related to a surgery to repair an injury sustained while performing for TNA. Bruiser Brody was kiled by a wrestling promoter.And Hercules Hernandez didn't just "die in his sleep." It was heart failure, which can often be associated with steroid use. Those are all circumstances directly related to their profession as wrestlers. There's really no other way to look at it. Even if you take away the accidental deaths, wrestlers die at younger at a far higher frequency than most of the populace. Not saying it's 100% the fault of wrestling. But its a big factor.[/QUOTE] Yea well you are also taking to a guy who has put 2 of his best friends in the ground before the age of 25. People die, all the time at any age. Only 2 of our group remains. You are talking about 2 young men who never did drugs. Causes of deaths? Heart Disease (Remember the basketball player Reggie Lewis something very close to that) while playing a pick up game of football and a car wreck. both before the age of 23. BUt you are looking at this that wrestling was the pure factory in these. Owen is the only one. But how many times did the WWE do this? WCW with Sting? One time it does end wrong. It was a stunt gone bad. It wasnt like the Wrestling industry release the safety catch. Stunts do go wrong Brandon Lee anyone? Is the movie industry responsible for his death? Candido die from a blood clot. That is a common item after you have surgery. Not the surgery itself. After the surgery to fix the injury he got from wrestling. Are the doctors who didnt give him enough blood thinners responsible? Brody was killed, by a man who just happen to be another wrestler at a wrestling event. Again wrestling didnt stab him. Another human being did. Isnt the man who stabbed him responsible? Hercules Hernandez died in his sleep his death was to heart disease. Again as i stated before i will give you this one but people die all the time from heart disease and heart attacks. heart disease does run in families. Dont get me wrong there are alot of wrestler who die young. But to say that WRESTLING is the cause of this.You are looking at this very narrow minded. To blame wrestling you have removed personal responsibility from this. To my knowledge no promoter told Gino Hernandez to do coke. Gary Hart stated that him and Fritz tried to get him to go to rehab.

[tristram]

[QUOTE=darkfire423;251406]Yea well you are also taking to a guy who has put 2 of his best friends in the ground before the age of 25. People die, all the time at any age. Only 2 of our group remains. You are talking about 2 young men who never did drugs. Causes of deaths? Heart Disease (Remember the basketball player Reggie Lewis something very close to that) while playing a pick up game of football and a car wreck. both before the age of 23. [/quote] Mate the stimulus of performance enhancing drugs can certainly have an effect on any number of vital organs, especially the heart. It's not just for reasons of parity that many athletic commissions prohibit them. [quote]BUt you are looking at this that wrestling was the pure factory in these. Owen is the only one. But how many times did the WWE do this? WCW with Sting? One time it does end wrong. It was a stunt gone bad. It wasnt like the Wrestling industry release the safety catch. Stunts do go wrong Brandon Lee anyone? Is the movie industry responsible for his death?[/quote] Owen Hart didn't want to do the stunt. If you noticed when Sting was lowered, it took him forever to get rid of the gear he was in. His was proper stuntsmen harnesses, with a secondary safety catch. Owen's was not. [quote]Candido die from a blood clot. That is a common item after you have surgery. Not the surgery itself. After the surgery to fix the injury he got from wrestling. Are the doctors who didnt give him enough blood thinners responsible?[/quote] He got the injury from wrestling, so to me wrestling is culpable. [quote]Brody was killed, by a man who just happen to be another wrestler at a wrestling event. Again wrestling didnt stab him. Another human being did. Isnt the man who stabbed him responsible?[/quote] Definitely wrestling related, the man had an ongoing dispute with the booker about his non willingness to job or put others over. [quote]Hercules Hernandez died in his sleep his death was to heart disease. Again as i stated before i will give you this one but people die all the time from heart disease and heart attacks. heart disease does run in families. [/quote] In any field of management when you assess "incidents" you look at likely causes and you attempt to minimise these. One of the likely causes from wrestling heart disease is the use of drugs. Perhaps that a post hoc fallacy finding, but it seems fairly congruent and consistent. [quote]Dont get me wrong there are alot of wrestler who die young. But to say that WRESTLING is the cause of this.You are looking at this very narrow minded. To blame wrestling you have removed personal responsibility from this. To my knowledge no promoter told Gino Hernandez to do coke. Gary Hart stated that him and Fritz tried to get him to go to rehab.[/QUOTE] There are a number of wrestlers who have died from drugs from wrestling that it is debatable whether the need would have been there for them to consume such quantities of said drugs. There was an interview a while ago with Roddy Piper in it that really opened my eyes mate, I'd suggest having a look at it. Pro wrestling is a dangerous industry, it is not natural to be thrown around like they are; it is not natural to be on the road as much as they are away from their family; it is not natural to play pretend and assume another identity; it is not natural to consume the drugs that are consumed in the industry. Some of these of course are physical faults with the industry, but the time on the road, the over the top characterisations, staying in cr@ppy hotels and travelling the road with 3-4 blokes who may have never really matured in say a commercial world before becoming wrestlers... sometimes these things contribute to guys not getting a sense of reality, or just slowly, but surely, undoing the cables that keep a man's brain together. Sometimes... these guys from the environment they come from, snap. The mental stress is absolutely incredible for these blokes.

[AfRoMaN36]

I have a feeling those phone calls were made to Chavo Guerrerro.

[PeterHilton]

[QUOTE=darkfire423;251406] Dont get me wrong there are alot of wrestler who die young. But to say that WRESTLING is the cause of this.You are looking at this very narrow minded. To blame wrestling you have removed personal responsibility from this. To my knowledge no promoter told Gino Hernandez to do coke. Gary Hart stated that him and Fritz tried to get him to go to rehab.[/QUOTE] OK....find me another industry where that many guys- men and women, trained athletes - drop dead at that sort of abnormally young age. When that many people (and those were just the famous ones, and just the ones up to age 50) pass away at an age which is significantly younger than that national average (around 77 iirc) its not some statistical anomaly. I'm not eliminating personal responsibility. I'm saying that the industry as awhole is obviously a contributing factor to the bad decisions these people make. And those bad decisions lead to the shortened lifespans. Could they say no? Absolutely. But they start taking the uppers and coke to function on the road, they start taking the painkillers so they can make their next date, they take the steroids to get big so the can make the big dollars, but now their schedule dates increase, so they take more coke and more painkillers and so forth. Somewhere along the way it goes beyond 'personal responsibility' and it becomes an issue of a lifestyle and culture associated with the wrestling business. But you keep defending the industry. Its not like there's 30 years of evidence and people within the industry who will tell you the same thing.

[Carlito]

Credit is due to WWE in this case. Everything they have done has been the right move--maintaining their business, but at the same time being respectful. The only time I was brought to tears during the past couple of days was when I read that Vince McMahon was a source of inspiration for his workers. I don't know, that just got me. I'm not saying he's a saint, and I certainly don't agree with all his business decisions because his desire to make money often conflicts with my desire to be entertained--but is the guy really that bad? Well, I'm sure not everyone will agree, but... : ) It looks like many of us have finally managed to resolve Benoit's status in our own minds, and I hope we were able to help each other achieve that through this thread. Understandably, in the first few hours, we refused to believe Benoit could be capable of what he's accused of. To us, Benoit was a really good wrestler, not a murderer. We couldn't allow the two ideas to exist simultaneously. Now I think we're coming to an understanding that Benoit WAS a really good wrestler who later murdered his family. At least that's how I'm beginning to see him. It's still frustrating, but in a different way now, at least. As much kudos as I give to WWE, I'm not sure how much of it I'm going to be able to watch now. Or any wrestling. It was already a chore sometimes to know that I was going to have to sit through three-minute matches that would lead to six minute commercial breaks and repetitive pay-per-view events. But this has opened my eyes to something else. I'm tired of watching these tributes (I think poor Chavo has gotten more screen time in memorial interviews than he has in the ring the last year-and-a-half). I really liked Mr. Perfect. I really liked Kurt Angle (he's not dead, thank God, but he's been exposed as more of an unsavory character than any of us would have imagined). I really, really liked Eddie Guerrero. I really liked Chris Benoit. And dozens of others who have died at young ages. And I think I'm tired of investing my time and emotion into these people just for them to self-destruct or drop dead way too early. I joke with friends that I only check 411 to see who died--but it's not a joke. If I didn't read that site for an entire week, I'd miss out on at least one death. That's not good. I appreciate all that they put themselves through for our entertainment and theirs--but these deaths are so prevalent that I'm actually starting to feel guilty! I really like Shelton Benjamin, but if it's his destiny to die at age 42 of a heart attack or painkiller overdose or something, it's not worth it to me. Maybe he's comfortable giving up so much for his profession, but I'm not comfortable letting him do it. I'd rather he live a boring life into his eighties and never steal the show in a ladder match again. So I don't want to watch it any more. I don't want to tell my friends how he rocked the house with Shawn Michaels on RAW a couple years ago if they're just going to respond with, "Didn't he die in a hotel room in Lincoln, Nebraska?" or "Didn't he kill his wife not too long ago?" I mean, what's the point if so many of these guys are just going to leave us under such tragic circumstances. I hope any of this makes any sense. I guess it's the equivalent of a jilted lover who never wants to fall for anyone else again. Finally, as much as I've said and we've all said that this is the last thing we would ever have imagined happening.... A few days ago I was in the shower, and I thought for a few moments about the possibility of Chris Benoit being found dead in the same manner as Eddie Guerrero, given their shared lifestyles and whatnot. I can't remember what got me on that train of thought, but I thought it. It's creepy, especially in light of an earlier post about people calling CNN weeks ago asking about Benoit's death. Strange. Thanks for listening, guys! Sam!

[AfRoMaN36]

Lol. You were thinking of Chris Benoit in the shower. I'm sorry, I couldnt resist.

[darkfire423]

[QUOTE=PeterHilton;251415] When that many people (and those were just the famous ones, and just the ones up to age 50) pass away at an age which is significantly younger than that national average (around 77 iirc) its not some statistical anomaly. [/QUOTE] Start watching Football. 38 and up you see deaths to football players. I never said i was defending wrestling. I just think it is wrong to see to blame a industry for deaths of people in said industry. I would love for wrestling to clean up its act. I would love for the boxing commissions of each state to set the standards of drug testing. The reason why Portland didnt hold wrestling within city limits for 15 years. They want wrestling companies to take test before each show. wrestlers fail no match for them. The reason why this was lifted? AOL bought WCW, gave portland some money. Greed is the x factor. Money is the root of all evil.

[Carlito]

Heh, yeah, I know. Actually, I bet it had something to do with TEW (bringing this whole thing full circle). I'll often find myself getting lost in thought in the shower, working out future events and things. That's another, incredibly minor, thing that has suffered is my desire to play the game anymore. It feels morbid and surreal playing the game with Benoit in it (he was my current ECW champ), but I'm also too drained to start over again. Sam!

[tristram]

BTW, just so you are all aware, Raw was pulled from being shown down under. It appears we will never see the Benoit-fest here. I wonder if matches with him on it and all that sort of stuff will be pulled, like I know there's a Summerslam thing coming out, will his matches be pulled off them?

[AfRoMaN36]

Most likely. The WWE wants nothing to do with him anymore. But dont you worry. The WWE will likely treat us to a "Best of Al Snow" special... .... its over.

[tristram]

No, dude, we get nothing.... Not even the best of the Divas in New york or some horse cr@p. I mean, I enjoy a bit of disassociation more than most, but no wrestling? This world is farked. :D

[AfRoMaN36]

Maybe you just missed the Al Snow special.....? Its a common mistake.

[Hotrod]

Here is PW Torch Take A woman tells News 1130 in Vancouver, B.C. that Chris Benoit's son Daniel had a condition called Fragile X syndrome. Wikipedia describes the symptoms: Aside from intellectual disability (mental retardation), prominent characteristics of the syndrome include an elongated face, large or protruding ears, flat feet, larger testicals in men (macroorchidism), and low muscle tone. Behavioral characteristics may include stereotypic movements (e.g., hand-flapping) and atypical social development, particularly shyness and limited eye contact. Some individuals with the fragile X syndrome also meet the diagnostic criteria for autism. While full mutation males tend to present with severe intellectual disability, the symptomology of full mutation females runs the gamut of minimally affected to severe intellectual disability, which may explain why females are underdiagnosed relative to males. The woman interviewed for the News 1130 story says her family was in contact with the Benoits, but they didn't want to go public with the disease and chose to keep things low profile. She added that families can be torn apart by the disease because it's very difficult to find help and support. She said, "You as a parent have to go out there and find what's available and it's not easy --they don't tell you." W.K. Analysis: This may explain why Daniel was taking growth hormone injections. It also may shed light onto why Chris didn't want someone else raising his son and made the fateful decision to kill him. As irrrational and twisted as it may sound, he may have felt he was saving his son from the double-blow of losing his parents through a murder-suicide and being subject to being raised by people who didn't understand or care for his condition. While in no way justifying his actions, the belief that his son was in for a difficult life as it was, and now one without his parents, might have been Benoit's self-justification for his heinous act!

[AfRoMaN36]

I guess it was just like how George felt he had to kill Lennie in "of Mice and Men" Odd... not right.... but... I can see what he was thinking.

[TCP1]

I've been trying to process the events in my head and at the moment, this is what I think: 1) Chris Benoit is still one of my favourite wrestlers of all time. 2) I don't think I'll be able to watch one of his matches in a long time. 3) The best memory I have of wrestling is post main event Wrestlemania XX, which has now been ruined for me. 4) I need to know what kind of person Benoit really was. 5) In my mind this event had nothing to do with Benoit being a wrestler or taking steroids (that's if he even did). 6) Wrestling seems a lot less fun now.