Benoit Dead

[adamrobertk]

I dont know what the title of this should be I grew up watching wrestling through its 2 peaks. I guess i was lucky, i caught the tail end of the 80's buzz (my first wrestling memory being Hogan V Savage at Mania 5), i watched the dip in the early 90's, and i caught the attitude era. And now i catch the dip in the post attitude era. I was always a WWF die hard, stuck with it through the bad (hell i thought WrestleMania 13 was a good PPV at the time, purley based on the fact that my fave wrestler the undertaker won the belt, best PPV of all time in my eyes then), and loved it through the good (i still remember Triple H as a heel in 99 at the telewest arena v a face undertaker. It was the weekend Xpac and Kane won the tag belts, as they wore them on the show, but won them on the next weeks raw). I grew up with the headliners being Hogan, Savage, Warrior, Sting, Flair. But then there were the mid carders who make up the most of my memories. I still remember every minute of Bret V Davey Boy at SSlam 92. I can tell you where i was and what i did when daveyboy won (cousins house, jumped up and punched the air). I remember the days of thinking Rick Rude was a scumbag for daring to cheat the great Warrior, or hating Owen for doing what he did to his brother at the Rumble, or being amazed at Mr Perfect yet wanting to be Bret when he beat him at Summerslam. I remember loving every minute of the radicals debut match and being so happy that kurt angle lost both belts at mania 2000 without being pinned. Strange now though, as all my memories of my early teens and childhood are even more prevalent now. They call it the greatest wrestling era in history. Yet every 3 months, i keep coming back to these memories and not for a good reason. Every 3-4 months now, it seems someone that i loved and admired, someone i loved to hate or someone i hoped for some reason to see as an old man someday in a bar or a re-union show and share some of my child hood anecdotes with, is now gone. The greatest era of wrestling has caused more grief than is really needed, and every 3-4 months we are reminded of this. The point of this, i dont know, just words i needed to get down. Chris Benoit, another one of my wrestling heros, another one of the guys i loved to watch when i loved the sport/entertainment/what ever you want to call it, gone. The reasons why, well, my view point is clear, for what he did, he's a scumbag, but for some reason, i like many others dont like believing it. My sister mentioned some lies regarding it, and i defend him like he's innocent, but following with the line read the facts first. Maybe the wrestling world now has to learn the lessons from the last truley great era, to stop this happening to the guys of the future. Or is it already happening. I mean who's next, Kurt Angle springs to mind. Is TNA making a mistake in letting him carry on. I hope in 10 years time, my kid brother isn't sitting down on wrestleview.com reading that a guy that he loves from today, isn't here anymore. (I'm fully aware this post has no structure, point and makes me look like a hypocrite from my previous posts on benoit and to be fair i dont care.)

[infinitywpi]

That could explain some of this... what if Benoit didn't know Nancy was giving Daniel the injections, and snapped? This is a man who's seen dozens in his profession die from the aftereffects of taking stuff like that... he went to the doctor to find out if he'd given her the drugs, then went home and... I don't know which I'd prefer as a motive, really... all I know is, having a concrete motive would be nice...

[WrestleManiac]

Been away from civilization for a short while. Found out about Benoit! F**k! Why's it always the legends! Haven't read all the posts on this thread, but in case nobody has done this here's Vince's official take on things. [URL="http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/19474972/"]msnbc mcmahon interview[/URL] After reading and watching the msnbc link I have a couple of theorys: 1. I don't think it is "roid rage". If he was in a drug induced rage why would he spend days building up to the act. Surely he would be lashing out at those nearby. This makes me think it was something more, although it could be contributed to steroid induced paranoia. Since I learned about this horrific incident the fact that he spent days mulling it over has always seemed odd with blind rage. Of course, this just makes Benoit's case worse. If this is true, it was a deliberate act. 2. The new fact I learned was that Benoit was in the house for upto a day before he took his own life. This is pure, wild speculation, but the way it plays out in my mind is that he got home, had a row with Nancy and ended up attacking her (he had a history of this). This time, however, he went too far and strangled her. Next, he killed his kid. I read somewhere - can't remember where - that Benoit's kid had a disability and both Nancy and Chris had decided that nobody else was going to look after their son. This, to me, would explain why he smothered the child as he knew he would be doing time for killing his wife. Then he took his own life. Weather that was through guilt or as a way of escaping judgement on his crime... who knows? But, by placing the bibles next to the bodies I would suggest he felt guilty. But, at the end of the day it's all speculation. Am I the only one to have a cold empty chill in my gut over this?

[Crychon]

[QUOTE=WrestleManiac;253013]Am I the only one to have a cold empty chill in my gut over this?[/QUOTE] No, no you're not.

[theoutlaw321]

Far from it man, far from it.

[adamrobertk]

end this thread now, someone.... its run its course.

[jagilki]

I don't know. This thread here on greydog has gone much much better than others have on other forums. This is something that is going to take a while for people to wrap their heads around. With it open, anything concerning the topic gets posted here. Closing it would only lead to a new topic any time new news comes out.

[panix04]

Hey Adam, Seems likr you have been watching wrestling in a simlar kinda period to me. Form cheering on the warrior and Hogan lae 80's through to the attitude era. And it is heartbreaking to see Benoit go off the rails, Angle losing the plot and Austin abusing whatever woman he is married too. But i guess it is a reflecion of the times. In a generation were a quick buzz fom an E, or getting your kicks out of sparking a joint or downing a pint (coming from a very drunk man!) i guess it stands to reason that the guys we idolise are doing things that most of us consider horrific. Apparantly eatin' your vitmains and sayin your prayers, aint the cool thing to do anymore! I think there are one or two guys out there with really good family values ( slightly biast here) im looking at Mick Foley. But most guys just wanna make a quick buck, by appealing to the younger generation. Perhaps the carry on with Benoit, will shake sports entertsinment to its core. Perhaps a new era is on the horizon. I know that i for one pray for wrestling to finally cough up th next Rock, Austin, Foley, Taker and enter a new era of actual entertainment, rathe then force feeding us utter bilge, such as the (not so) great Khali. I have refrained quite a lot from really comenting on the Benoit situation, cos there a lot of younger lads on here that idolise him, and from a wrestling standpoint deservedly so. But seeing as i am pretty drunk, i just as ell comment eh? He disgusts me, anyone who thinks he should be remembered for his wrestling is either too young too understand or far too involved in the "celebrity hysteria" too recognise right from wrong. The guy murdeed a 7 year old for petes sake. Just picture yourself clasping you hands round the neck of a 7 year old and see how it feels. If it feels anything other then horrible, you should probably check yourself into a psyche ward right noe. Benoits actions were unescusable (sp?) i dont give a flying fudge if his match Vs whoever was "da bomb" as far as im concerned he can go to hell. I loved Benoit, his ring work was the Sh*t. But he killed 2 people. Its sick! If Pink knocked off 2 people, would people still say "she might of murdered a few people, but u and ur hand was the bomb" no! so why should wrestling fans be any different? Any way sorry to drop my cheery demeanor, but the drunk version of me does that! I realise my opinion is worthless but i felt te need to share it anyway. Love you all! Peace out! XXX

[theoutlaw321]

Well. Let me first say that the drunk version of you also loses his ability to spell and punctuate. But that being said even drunk you are right on. No matter what you feel for him as far as his in ring talents go, how can you possibly get past the part of where he killed his own 7 year old son. There is no excuse or reasoning that can be brought to light that could make sense out of the horror of the tragedy. I loved his talents in the ring. I thought he was a stand up guy. The epitome of what a professional wrestler was supposed to be. Now the mere thought of him turns my stomach inside out. This is something, as a fan, as a human being, I may never be able to get over as far as he goes.

[jagilki]

Agree with both Outlaw and Panix.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=jagilki;253100]I don't know. This thread here on greydog has gone much much better than others have on other forums. This is something that is going to take a while for people to wrap their heads around. With it open, anything concerning the topic gets posted here. Closing it would only lead to a new topic any time new news comes out.[/QUOTE] I aggree with you. I don't aggree with mueling over and over and over a topic to death, but in this case there are actually alot of people venting out their anger and/or outrage, and I think this spot is just as healthy as any. People that are normally unemotional, are very emotional in this thread..... It's a healing thread in my opinion. I say keep it up till everyone has gotten it out of their system. If someone doesn't want to read about it, they don't have to, it's an option. A couple of posts up kind of makes me feel strongly that I'm correct. The poster hadn't bothered to read through alot of posts, but seen a place to post his feeling and thoughts on the matter, and did. He said what's been said more then once, but it's how he feels and he needed to say it. I feel that everyone should feel free to post what they want here, to get it off their chest and mind. One thing I would suggest more then anything though, is not to "debate" other's over things you feel one way about, and they feel another. Everyone is just in a bit of pain/shock/surprise, and probably more then anything.... LET DOWN. Whatever I post on this subject, realise I am only doing the same. If I think differently or something, it's just because that's the way I'm dealing with it as well. We all deal with things, just not everyone deals with them the same way...... And there is no more to that statement then face value, I'm talking about US here at GDS ONLY.

[jagilki]

This is a damn good AP article and food for thought. [quote] By PAUL NEWBERRY AP National Writer ATLANTA — Everything is planned. The high-flying moves. The outlandish story lines. The crackpot characters. One thing isn’t in the script: the staggering number of pro wrestlers who die young. Chris Benoit was the latest, taking his own life at age 40 after killing his wife and son in a grisly case that might be the blackest eye yet for the pseudo-sport already ridiculed as nothing more than comic books come to life, a cult-like outlet for testosterone-ragin’ young males to cheer on their freakishly bulked-up heroes. But the tenacious, grim-faced grappler known as the ‘‘Canadian Crippler’’ was hardly alone in heading to an early grave. The very same weekend Benoit killed his family, the body of old tag-team partner Biff Wellington (real name: Shayne Bower) was found in his bed, dead at 42. A couple of weeks ago, former women’s champion ‘‘Sensational’’ Sherri Martel passed away at her mother’s home in Alabama. She was 49. And on it goes. Mike Awesome (Michael Lee Alfonso in real life) was found hanged in his Florida home in February, the apparent victim of a suicide at 42. ‘‘Bam Bam’’ Bigelow was 45 when a lethal ****tail of cocaine and benzodiazepine, an anti-anxiety drug, stopped his already ailing heart in January. And on it goes, dozens and dozens of wrestlers meeting a similar fate over the past two decades. Some died with drugs flowing through their veins. Others tried to clean up but belatedly paid the price for their long-term abuse of steroids, painkillers, alcohol, cocaine and other illicit substances. How many more must pass through the morgue before everyone stands up and shouts: Enough’s enough? ‘‘From my 17 years in the business, I know probably 40 to 45 wrestlers who dropped dead before they were 50,’’ said Lance Evers, a semiretired wrestler who goes by ‘‘Lance Storm’’ when he’s in the ring. ‘‘It’s an astronomical number.’’ Then, he added in a voice tinged with anger and sadness, ‘‘I’m sick and tired of it.’’ ——— Over the years, there are been numerous proposals to put wrestling under some sort of oversight, be it at the state or federal level. Those ideas usually have fallen on deaf ears, largely because the powers-that-be, be it the old-time regional promoters or WWE owner Vince McMahon, the guy who largely controls the sport today, don’t want the government telling them how to run their business. Jim Wilson, who parlayed pro football into a ring career, says he was blackballed when he began pushing for a wrestler’s union. Since then, he has written a book about his experiences and kept up the push to rein in those who govern the sport. Although Wilson’s battle often has been a lonely one, he says Benoit’s death might reinvigorate the cause. A union could be a useful tool for cleaning up the sport. It might lead to a pension plan, improved benefits, more stringent health and safety guidelines and a revamped pay structure that would allow wrestlers to spend more time at home without risking a pay cut. Now, most top wrestlers get a guaranteed salary, but the bulk of their income is based on how often they compete. That leads some to feel they must get in the ring while injured, often with the aid of painkillers and other numbing chemicals. And much like rock stars, plenty of wrestlers have fallen victim to excessive partying, alcohol and drug dependency, and marital problems during grueling stints on the road. ‘‘My longest run was 79 days in a row without a day off,’’ said Joe Laurinaitis, the wrestler known as Road Warrior Animal and father of Ohio State football star James Laurinaitis. ‘‘It’s not as bad now. They’ve got good guys running the WWE. Still, we need to take a look at it when things like this (the Benoit murder-suicide) are happening. Guys are still overworked.’’ That’s why Wilson’s calling for Congress to hold hearings on the wrestling industry, much like it investigated doping in professional sports and just this past week heard from ex-NFL players who believe they’re being shortchanged on their pensions. ‘‘In those other sports, they aren’t dropping like flies like they are in the wrestling business,’’ Wilson said. ‘‘Now is the time to push for legislation nationally.’’ He’s already spoken with U.S. Sen. Johnny Isakson (R-Ga.), who instructed his staff to begin gathering information on the issue to determine if a hearing before the Health Committee might be warranted. Isakson said his main concern is steroid abuse. ‘‘I’m not going to start speculating on federal regulation of wrestling,’’ he said. ‘‘The issue is anabolic steroids, which are a significant problem and are known to cause significant difficulties. It’s a health issue that’s appropriate for us to discuss, regardless of the profession.’’ ——— Steroids and other muscle-building drugs long have been an accepted part of the wrestling culture, allowing the biggest names to pump up to ungodly proportions that wouldn’t be possible through natural means. Granted, nobody comes right out and tells a wrestler he or she should take steroids. But all one has to do is attend a match in person or watch one on TV to realize some of these physiques just aren’t plausible without help from a syringe. ‘‘Somebody says you need to put 25 pounds on your upper body,’’ said Larry DeGaris, who teaches sports marketing at the University of Indianapolis and moonlights on the independent wrestling circuit as ‘‘The Professor’’ Larry Brisco. ‘‘Well, if you have an athletic background and have been around sports for a while, you know there’s only one way to do that. Nobody needs to tell you. It’s just a tacit understanding.’’ Steroids were found in Benoit’s home, though investigators haven’t determined if they played any role in the brutal killings of his wife, Nancy, and their 7-year-old son. World Wrestling Entertainment, which employed Benoit and holds a virtual monopoly grip on the industry, was quick to point out that this tragedy — apparently carried out over an entire weekend — doesn’t come with the classic signs of ’roid rage, the violent, unpredictable outbursts that can be caused by someone who abuses steroids. A top anti-doping expert agreed but said it’s too early in the investigation to draw any firm conclusions. ‘‘I can paint any number of scenarios that explain this without invoking ’roid rage,’’ said Dr. Gary Wadler, a member of the World Anti-Doping Agency. ‘‘’Roid rage tends to be impulse control. This event happened over two or three days. It has the earmarks of some calculation.’’ The WWE also was quick to announce Benoit had passed his last drug test in April, part of the organization’s ‘‘Wellness Program’’ that was put in place after the death of star Eddie Guerrero two years ago. But Wadler doesn’t sound all that impressed with the WWE’s testing procedures. He’s especially troubled that the WWE refuses to discuss the program in any detail. Both Evers and wrestling journalist Bryan Alvarez, who’ve seen guidelines for the program, report two troubling loopholes: — A wrestler can pass the doping test with a testosterone to epitestosterone ratio of 10:1, more than double the WADA standard. Under WADA rules, athletes are in violation starting at 4:1; the average ratio is 1:1. — A wrestler who tests positive can be excused if he produces a doctor’s prescription and a medically justified reason for taking the drug in question. ——— There’s no justifying that happened at the Benoits’ suburban Atlanta home last weekend. Alvarez, who covers the sport extensively for the Web site [url]www.wrestlingobserver.com[/url], has some inkling of the demons that might have overtaken the wrestler. He said Benoit never got over the 2005 death of Guerrero, a former WWE champion and four-time tag-team titleholder who was 38 when he died of a heart attack, perhaps caused by the alcohol and drug abuses that friends thought he had beaten. ‘‘Chris’ closest friend in the world was Eddie Guerrero,’’ Alvarez said. ‘‘He could cry to him. He could tell him everything. After Eddie died, I talked to Chris. He was broken man.’’ Last year, another of Benoit’s wrestling buddies, 263-pound Mike Durham (known in the business as Johnny Grunge), died at 39 from complications cause by sleep apnea, a condition that often affects larger people such as wrestlers and football players. ‘‘It was about this period of time that people started noticing weird behavior, paranoid behavior, which would indicate (Benoit) was using a lot of drugs,’’ Alvarez said. ‘‘He was alone. He was on the road a lot, having to perform at a high level, having to look a certain way. I think the drug use escalated, and his whole world basically fell apart.’’ Laurinaitis knows what a lethal potion it all can be. His friend since childhood and longtime tag partner, Road Warrior Hawk (Michael Hegstrand), died from a heart attack in 2003. Just 46, Hegstrand had battled alcohol and drugs, in addition to using steroids, Laurinaitis said. ‘‘I used to watch him sometimes and just shake my head. I would think, ’Oh my God, what in the world is he doing? Why is he doing that?’’’ Laurinaitis said. ‘‘I saw quite a few guys go down that path.’’ Now, they’re all gone. Benoit. Guerrero. Hawk. Martel. Bigelow. Awesome. Not to mention Curt ‘‘Mr. Perfect’’ Hennig, Big Boss Man, Hercules, Crash Holly, Davey Boy Smith, Miss Elizabeth, Terry Gordy, ‘‘Gentleman’’ Chris Adams, Yokozuna, ‘‘Ravishing’’ Rick Rude, Owen Hart, Louie Spiccoli, Brian Pillman, Eddie Gilbert, Buzz Sawyer, ‘‘Quick Draw’’ Rick McGraw, Gino Hernandez and much of the Von Erich clan. All dead before they were 50 — and that’s just a sampling of an ever-growing list. It doesn’t take someone who can distinguish between a full nelson and a sleeper hold to know that’s far too many wrestlers dying far too young. ‘‘It’s gotten to the point that just about every show in the country is starting with a ten-bell salute,’’ said DeGaris, the professor and wrestler, referring to the traditional farewell to a fallen competitor. ‘‘You kind of look at some of the old pictures, and you’re the last man standing.’’ [/quote]

[Payne]

Ya know what? I think outside the box. Maybe a little unorthadox, but that's me. Deal with it. This will be all over the web in everyplace I can find. I think people need one more view, just to truly have an open mind. Everyone from Fox to ESPN to CNN to the AP to everyother initial on the planet has an opinion on what happened in Atlanta, GA. Hell, even someone whose opinion I value the most has seemingly jumped on the bandwagon and labelled Chris Benoit a "monster". I am not defending Chris, if he did it. I am just saying, take a REAL look at the facts. Is the fact that the whole family is dead? Yes. Is it a fact that Chris did it? No. Don't know yet. You don't either. Face it, this is just what you read. And the police are just making an educated guess, right now. I mean, it looks bad for Chris, it sure does. But, it also looked bad for Guy Paul Morin, who was jailed for years for a high-profile crime he didn't do. So, again, let's look at some FACTS! FACT: Benoit has never failed the drug test. If he did, it would all over the 'net, just like Balls, Test, RVD, Sabu and every other person who failed the Wellness Program test. FACT: Chris seemed in good spirits on Friday afternoon, as he visited his doctor. FACT: Chris Benoit had steroids in his house. This is a key point to the media sensationalism of "wrestling=steroids". Let's ponder this a second, shall we? Why would Chris have steroids in his house? Well, let's look at reasons. To gain muscle? The dude was a powerhouse to begin with. He weighed as much as I do (220 pounds) and was 5-foot-10. 4 inches shorter than me. We all saw him. He didn't do steroids for muscles. He hasn't changed shape in years. Why else would he have 'roids? Here's a thought. A while ago. Edge was asked on "Off the Record" if he did steroids. He answered yes. On his MySpace blog, he asserted the fact that he was prescribed steroids to heal his broken neck. Chris Benoit went through the same surgery. If I remember correctly, it was from the same the doctor. It stands to reason that the doctor would give the same treatment. Is that a FACT? No. I don't know this for sure. But, it's a possibility. Let's keep our mind open to this, shall we? Also a possibility, and one that the media and, largely, the general public is accepting, is that on Friday night, June 22, Chris Benoit took steroids, and decided "Hey, I am going to go home, and systematically slaughter my wife and son over this weekend. And then, for kicks, I am going to hang myself." I don't buy that one bit. For YEARS Chris has been heraled as a professional, with loving ties to his wife and his family. For YEARS Chris has been said to be the embodiment of respect and honour. Now, in a "roid rage", he decided to spend a weekend killing? Come on, people! How gullible are you? It has been said, by people who are actually able to have an opinion on this, that "roid rage" is an instant thing. You get mad, you smash, you go home. NEVER has a "roid rage" lasted 3 days. It has been reported that Chris was upset at being demoted in the WWE. Demoted? How is that a FACT? Let's look at this one: I have a good feeling that Chris was to win the ECW title at Vengeance. Hell, if they gave it to Johnny ****ing Nitro over CM Punk, I think it's a safe bet that they weren't going to put Punk over Benoit. Benoit loved ECW. Benoit was going to be the next Kurt Angle/Big Show of ECW. Hell, he was the biggest star of the show. How was that a demotion? The point of this is, don't judge yet, because we don't have all the FACTS. We just have a few, and a hell of a lot of speculation and glorification from the press/media. Wait a while. I know this is a tragedy, and we want to put a face to the demon that caused this. But, I say, don't go off half-****ed. Let the police do their work. Then we can find out what happened. Unless you were there, you don't know ****. On related topics, people are slamming McMahon and Co. for doing the tribute on Monday. Let's put ourselves in someone elses shoes for a minute, instead of thinking that the world revolves around us. About 4pm, the WWE found out that one the most popular, respected and talented members on the roster was found dead, with his entire family. That's called a tragedy, the words "Double Murder-Suicide" had not popped into anyone's mind, yet. The WWE did what they thought was best AT THE TIME!!!!!!! I beg you to forgive them for not being able to see into the future. This whole "Double Murder-Suicide" was not brought up until Tuesday morning. How in the hell was the WWE supposed to know this at 7pm Monday night? They just went a through a tragedy, and they dealt with that tragedy. How things unfolded afterwards is not a reflection on what they did Monday night. People are so eager to throw blame around, especially at the WWE. It makes me sick. They just lost a family to , AT THAT POINT, unknows circumstances. Now, to the dude who put up the Wikipedia post, about Benoit skipping out on Saturday's show because of the death of Nancy: You are the lowest, shallowest, scumiest human on the planet, you sick ****! You didn't know ****. You didn't know a damned thing about what was going on. At BEST, you read a RUMOUR, and decided to try and be cool, and posting this on a website read the world over. You probably thought it would be funny, seeing the WWE and the Benoit family trying to make up for this. Statements regarding Nancy being alive and well would come out. It would receive 13 minutes of fame, and you would be sitting back, laughing to your Jackass buddies that "Hey, man, that's my story! Pass the joint!" without any understanding of the pain you would have caused the Benoit family, and the friends and extended family of these people. You heartless son of a bitch. You did it for laughs. I hope you rot in hell. Now, you send out this big "apology" saying that you feel bad. Bull****. If you truly had any sense or feeling you wouldn't have put out this kind of **** in the first place. May you get run over by a bus. Post that, jerk-off! To the rest of the world, I re-itterate, I know you want to see someone punished for a tragedy. I am asking you, please don't condemn a man before we have all the evidence. This is a public trial, and we are the jury of peers. Chris cannot defend himself, and we don't truly know what happened. Until we have ALL the FACTS, we won't know what happened. Maybe we never will. You don't get closure all the time, and you don't get to point the finger all the time. That's life. As for me, I still don't believe it. Something else happened. We are missing something. Until next time, keep an open mind.

[Adam Ryland]

This thread has run its course, and is now closed. Please do not open subsequent threads on the same topic.