CM Punk

[angeldelayette]

Has he won a singles match since winning Money In The Bank? It sounds crazy to think that this marketable guy with his straight-edge gimmick isn't winning matches and winning people over. They need to take a look at some of his old stuff and see if they can work it in to him now. Maybe turn him heel and have him do the whole 'I'm straight-edge and that means I'm better than you' thing.

[Tyler Gadzinski]

He's losing cuz he has backstage heat ... quite badly too. I've heard multiple times(and I believe it) that he only won MITB cuz Jeff Hardy got suspended. I am a huge fan of Punk and am pissed that WWE pushes him this horribly.

[Wallbanger]

So who did he piss off backstage that has the glass ceiling firmly over his head?

[Guest Ransik]

Judging from the reports I've been reading the past couple days... I'd say Punk pissed off Mr. Stephanie McMahon. Apparently people are getting incredibly tired of Hunter dictating who should be on "his level" it's rumored they're gonna move him to Smackdown.... Taker to RAW along with Punk.

[Eisen-verse]

[QUOTE]I've heard multiple times(and I believe it) that he only won MITB cuz Jeff Hardy got suspended.[/QUOTE] I could totally see that as being true. At the time Jeff Hardy was "on top of the world" and winning the MITB match would have given some "Star Power" to another match at Wrestlemania. I'm actually happy he didn't win it though... As much as he's a "draw" with some people... I don't really see him as World Title caliber. [QUOTE]Apparently people are getting incredibly tired of Hunter dictating who should be on "his level" it's rumored they're gonna move him to Smackdown.... Taker to RAW along with Punk.[/QUOTE] It would actually be pretty weird to have Triple H not on RAW since he's kind of been the staple figure of the show since the Brand Split has come about. However, moving him off the show and moving Taker to RAW (As he's been a staple for Smackdown since the brand split) would really change the landscape of the WWE. I like the idea of it all.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Ransik;430005]Judging from the reports I've been reading the past couple days... I'd say Punk pissed off Mr. Stephanie McMahon. Apparently people are getting incredibly tired of Hunter dictating who should be on "his level" it's rumored they're gonna move him to Smackdown.... Taker to RAW along with Punk.[/QUOTE] Where did you here this? I just would like to find out the rumor about Punk more then anything. There are always rumor's about HHH, but then someone gets ahold of someone that supposedly complained, and they can't say enough positive things about the guy. So... I don't believe that at all. I think it stems from people upset that there favorite didn't get a push, and so find a way to blame someone else... IN my opinion, there is less then 6 that "ARE" on HHH level in the whole promotion.... And that's debatable.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Eisen-verse;430056]I could totally see that as being true. At the time Jeff Hardy was "on top of the world" and winning the MITB match would have given some "Star Power" to another match at Wrestlemania. I'm actually happy he didn't win it though... As much as he's a "draw" with some people... I don't really see him as World Title caliber. It would actually be pretty weird to have Triple H not on RAW since he's kind of been the staple figure of the show since the Brand Split has come about. However, moving him off the show and moving Taker to RAW (As he's been a staple for Smackdown since the brand split) would really change the landscape of the WWE. I like the idea of it all.[/QUOTE] /nod... The whole "Punk" thing eludes me a bit. However, I can't say he has lost every match... fact it might not even be the majority (off the top of my head, I'm pretty sure he's won more match's then lost, since then). Far as Jeff is concerned though, I can also buy that. He was (and still is) huge right now. It's hard to find someone that is getting more pops then him lately. I'm not in aggreement about the "Main" event thing for him either. I think he's totally pulled off unbelievable, yet believable, wins in the last year. One of them being a surprise victory over HHH. Honestly think you can see a bit of pride in HHH when he is around Hardy as well.. Almost like he's thinking "If this kid doesn't screw up, he could be HUGE!"... but then you know he screws up... So he might have to leave next time he does. I don't know if I like HHH and Taker switching, although I do like to see an actual draft happen. What I really hate is thinking that Regal is actually gone for good from the company... I can't help holding a little suspicion that I think he's taking a leave of absense (weather or not he wanted to or not), and will be coming back in a few months or so.. I'm not a huge fan, like everyone else seems to be around here for him, but... He has history, and I hate to see him go. He seems to be a good "soldier" and one that will be hard to replace (VERY versatile).

[Tyler Gadzinski]

I know for fact Punk's been on a 3 week losing streak at least. here's a clip from Wrestlinginc.com about Punk.. [QUOTE]It should be noted first that Punk was never scheduled to win the "Money in the Bank" Ladder Match at WrestleMania 24 as the obvious frontrunner and planned winner was Jeff Hardy until he was suspended 60 days for violating the WWE Wellness Policy a second time. The decision to have Punk was last minute as the company had no real plans for him to win the match and receive a major push. For whatever reason, Punk has some major heat with many individuals in the WWE. Some of the reasons are considered valid, while others are quite frankly just flat out stupid (one of these being that he has been buried for refusing to go out and drink alcohol with the other wrestlers). Those who have known Punk for a while have stated he has a tendency to rub people the wrong way and that this dates back to his early career working the independent scene. Another reason Punk may have heat is the fact that he was built up quite a bit on the independent scene and now there is a desire to prove that he was "overrated" to those who never saw a thing in him or his character. One WWE source has stated that Punk's career could take the path of Matt Hardy where he would get small pushes here and there and always be used, but he will likely never break through as a top guy. WWE writer Christopher DeJoseph (who plays the Big Johnson/fat oily guy character) has been moved into a leadership role on ECW and is said to be very high on Punk. However, since Punk appears to be on everyone's you-know-what list lately, it appears that may not happen and this could explain his recent string of losses and being buried.[/QUOTE]

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Tyler Gadzinski;430259]I know for fact Punk's been on a 3 week losing streak at least. here's a clip from Wrestlinginc.com about Punk..[/QUOTE] I can understand most of that post, except the ending... There is no way that a couple of loss's constitutes being Burried. In my opinion it's building up to a PPV win, as normal... Same with HBK losing... Can't help but to think that him losing is building up to a big win against Batista.

[Self]

It's bizarre booking for a MITB winner, but I'm sure they have their reasons. We can't always see what's behind the curtain. I'm not the biggest Punk fan, but I dug the few old heel promo's I've bothered to find. It's a shame that in this current anti-drug climate, they might not use that aspect of his character. As to his losing streak, I seem to remember him beating Jericho at some point, and he technically beat Chuck Palumbo a few weeks back via DQ, when Chuck wouldn't stop... hitting... him... Wow. In kayfabe terms, Punk sucks. :) I never saw Jeff as a potential World Champ, until I saw him vs Shawn Michaels on some RAW. Jeff had SO much offense I was entirely convinced. He wasn't just taking a kicking, then Whisper in the Wind, Twist of Fate, Swanton, Win. The way they're portraying the character in his ring work, I believe. Practically anyone could get over as a potential champion is booked right. Even Naked Mideon.

[djthefunkchris]

Just watching king of the ring episode on Raw.. which was not long ago either, he was looking good there. I'm just not seeing the "Burried" thing going on. What do people expect, for him to win EVERY match.. Seems to me that eveyrone loss's before winning at the PPV's, although there have been some unexpected twists this year.

[Eisen-verse]

I could see why people think he is being "buried" since they aren't capitalizing on him winning the MITB match. however, the WWE must be "high enough" on him for not having him loose that case to someone else. Maybe that's their ultimate plan so they don't have to really push Punk... or... maybe he'll cash it in to win a championship and the place will erupt that one of their fav. guys defied the odds. Sadly, The second after he won the title I had a feeling that the WWE is going to have him cash the MITB case in for a title that no one is really going to care about. We all want to see him Challenge for either RAW's or Smackdown's World Titles... however, he'll probably cash it in for ECW's World Title or for Jericho's IC Title (After their string of matches). I guess we'll just have to see what the WWE plans on doing here.

[Tyler Gadzinski]

I never said they were burying him ... I know he's lost every match since he lost to Regal in the King of the Ring finals. Which no isn't really burying him but it's not getting him over. I hope they make this into a Heel turn. Where he loses alot of matches and says screw it and goes to the I'm straight-edge there-for I'm better than you gimmick. When Punk got signed to WWE I was excited cuz the man was awesome on the Indy's then he was put on TV and never utilized correctly. Now, they using him to put over others that seem to have gotten stale. Palumbo, Regal & Chavo, That I can think of anyway.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Tyler Gadzinski;430277]I never said they were burying him ... I know he's lost every match since he lost to Regal in the King of the Ring finals. Which no isn't really burying him but it's not getting him over. I hope they make this into a Heel turn. Where he loses alot of matches and says screw it and goes to the I'm straight-edge there-for I'm better than you gimmick. When Punk got signed to WWE I was excited cuz the man was awesome on the Indy's then he was put on TV and never utilized correctly. Now, they using him to put over others that seem to have gotten stale. Palumbo, Regal & Chavo, That I can think of anyway.[/QUOTE] I was (and I'd bet other's were) refering to the article, about the "Burrying" Him thing. He's losing to cheater's with the exception of Regal... Where he sold his injuries of the past two match's hugely (making it an obvious win for Regal)... and even then, Regal being in it was a cheat in itself (look at who he went against). Palumbo was not a loss..> He won that match. Chavo is winning against everyone with his "Bodyguard" and other "back-up". To me it's what Punk has to overcome (quite a bit) that is making him over, and the fact they all still have to cheat to beat him, is helping him get over even more.. If he was to go in and win, what would be the build-up? Why would there be feud? Punk vs. Chavo .... and friends of Chavo is putting Punk over more then his earlier winning streak ever did. Right now, Punk can believably beat poeple like Edge, Orton, etc.. where I don't think that was the case a few months ago. Why is he losing (the way he is?). They are "Making" Him... Kind of like the way Benoit was "Making" MVP. Will it work? I don't know, might have to get someone else to really get him over... Maybe utilize Edge or Orton more against him.

[Self]

The problem with Punk is that he's never really had a good storyline going for him. He came in, he had a good look, he won matches, rode that out to the match-based feud with Morrison, won the title, lost the title, won a few more matches, won MITB, lost some matches, and that's about it. To be a genuine main eventer in WWE you have to be able to tell a story that sells tickets, and having Kelly Kelly like you isn't enough. It's not all Punk's fault. For whatever reason the creative team either don't want to, or simply can't come up with a decent storyline to fit the character. I like Punk. His gimmick is nice. He wrestles well. I just haven't seen the story that makes me give a damn about his character. Edge had the Matt-Lita thing. Orton was the Legend Killer. Hunter did DX. Shawn had Bret Hart. Stone Cold had Bret Hart. Batista had Evolution. Undertaker was Undertaker. Kane had Undertaker. Mick Foley had Undertaker. These guys didn't just have matches, they told stories outside the ring aswell, and Punk hasn't done that yet. Jeff on the other hand has that automatic underdog thing going for him, and his Orton feud was a good signifier of how his character can perform in a proper story. He's not quite there, but I put him closer than Punk.

[Eisen-verse]

[QUOTE]I like Punk. His gimmick is nice. He wrestles well. I just haven't seen the story that makes me give a damn about his character. Edge had the Matt-Lita thing. Orton was the Legend Killer. Hunter did DX. Shawn had Bret Hart. Stone Cold had Bret Hart. Batista had Evolution. Undertaker was Undertaker. Kane had Undertaker. Mick Foley had Undertaker. These guys didn't just have matches, they told stories outside the ring aswell, and Punk hasn't done that yet.[/QUOTE] I would say that's more creative's fault than Punk. I'm sure Punk has no say over where his character goes (Especially being a newbie to the company), so really... He may be looking for a good storyline but has been thrown in with a lot of the younger talent (Probably because he use to be a trainer for ROH from what I've heard... the WWE probably feels like he can build up some of their future superstars in the ring). All in all, I think it's the current stale booking process of the WWE that is really sinking his ship. I'm a WWE fan... I like their stuff and still watch but I would like to see Punk actually get some air time more so than just wrestling.... Then again, The reason why he may not be heavily pushed yet could be because he isn't a WWE "home grown talent"... The WWE wants him to go through the trails and tribulations as a WWE worker for awhile before they give him a big push so that way he doesn't look like some "all powerful god taking down the WWE's big main event talent in a year on the job". Vince did the same thing with most WCW talent he acquired... They weren't really instant superstars... They had to work their way up and after years of proving themselves.... They got their time in the sun. It will probably be the same for Punk.... That's if he doesn't leave before that time comes.

[Self]

[QUOTE=Eisen-verse;430312]I would say that's more creative's fault than Punk. I'm sure Punk has no say over where his character goes (Especially being a newbie to the company), so really... He may be looking for a good storyline but has been thrown in with a lot of the younger talent (Probably because he use to be a trainer for ROH from what I've heard... the WWE probably feels like he can build up some of their future superstars in the ring). [/QUOTE] I'd say Creative are responsible for it, but I wouldn't say it's their "fault". You can't just be handed a character, be told "Give this guy a compelling story" and be able to do it. I'll use myself as an example. Give me Matt Hardy, and I'll write a 3-month long storyline for him, and I can get him to a World Title match at a PPV. How it goes and whether he becomes a legit face main eventer ultimately down to him. Can he convey the emotion? Can he handle the work on the microphone? I don't know. What I do know is that I can come up with the story arc, because I know the character, I can relate to the character, and he has enough relationships in the kayfabe world of WWE that I can play off of, meaning in this example Jeff and Edge. I could give Matt his breakthrough story, and get him a compelling World Title shot. (There's a lot of theory to this. I'm not going to pretend I know everything about wrestling psychology) However, give me... um... Chyna, and I'd be stumped. She had a good character, as defined and liked as Matt Hardy, with plenty of relationships to play off of. Only problem is, I don't personally know what to do with her. I don't relate to the character, in fact I kind of hate that type of character, so for me to push her as a babyface... Couldn't do it. Not well enough. This is a long-winded explanation on what I think is happening with Punk. The Creative team don't 'get' the character as a good guy, and that's preventing them from doing something meaningful and compelling with him. Or Triple H hates him. Either way ;)

[djthefunkchris]

Punk isn't losing match's... He's being ripped out of match's that he should have won. There is a difference... Besides that, he is not losing more then he's winning... The reason my interest is peaked, is because I've noticed he's kind of been put out of the Chavo/Edge/Vickie loop. This is NEW, and that is why I think there might be some backstage problems with him. IF he were losing every week against them, I wouldn't think nothing of it, but it doesn't seem like he's in that loop anymore, so I'm wondering what the deal might be.

[Eisen-verse]

[QUOTE]The Creative team don't 'get' the character as a good guy, and that's preventing them from doing something meaningful and compelling with him. [/QUOTE] I think the WWE has a GEM when it comes to CM Punk in the current state of pro wrestling. In a time period that has been turned upside down by drug abuse, alcohol abuse, death, and obvious destructive habits... Punk is a "modern day Hulk Hogan". Before people rip me a new one on this one... Hear me out... I'm in no way saying that his persona is as classic as the 6'7, blonde haired, ultra charismatic Hulk Hogan... However, Hogan stood for (funny enough knowing that he used steriods) good morals, a strong work ethic, and really a figure that children could look up to (ie: his say your prayers, eat your vitamins thing). He was crazy over with kids (and parents who knew that Hogan was a good role model with those messages) and the WWE had a legit superstar that could use his "straight edge" lifestyle to promote a strong moral message. Now, Fast Forward to now... An industry, once again, falling to its knees with bad ratings... Drug abuse... Politics & a true lack of TV ratings... What does the WWE need? A superstar that can deliver the same moral message that looks more modern (Punk fitting the new mold of being tattooed and having piercings creating an almost "rock star' persona). A superstar that not only can cut it in the ring and prove himself to true wrestling fans but a guy who has a knack behind the mic & a message that would resonate within the new "family oriented" WWE product (Well, I wouldn't call them family oriented per say i guess... But, I have seen a lot of reports saying that the WWE is starting to gear more towards kids again... More profitable in the end when it comes to merchandise and what not). So, You put your stock in a superstar who looks modern, who can deliver a strong moral message & someone who can deliver in the ring. Where can you go wrong? Even then... if you ever turn him heel and have him do the whole "i'm better than you" thing then it would completely turn the company on it's heels and would probably change the landscape of the WWE... Creating controversy and "cooler talk". All in all, I really think the WWE is missing out on a potential powerhouse superstar in CM Punk... Creative may not "understand" the character very well or know how to book it, but if they want to have the potential of creating a huge mainstream superstar... They need to find out how to book him. :D That is... Unless... like you said.... Triple doesn't like him... In that case.... He's screwed. haha. :D