Creative Control...DELETE IT!

[mikeyg32118]

I'm running a WCW game with one of the 98 scenerios. Anyways, I'm getting into it but I have a problem. CREATIVE CONTROL. I can't book Hogan to lose the title, because he won't drop it to anyone. Anyways, is there anyway to edit anything to take away their creative control clauses.

[dPro]

You can edit his contract in the ingame editor and remove his creative control.

[Dragonmack]

Or you can always just vacate the belt, and make up an angle for it.

[mad5226]

Or you can be like DAMN no wonder WCW went under =)

[The Final Countdown]

Yeah, I had this same problem running WCW with the Montreal Screwjob mod. What I did was have a disputed finish between Sting and Hogan at Starrcade, with the title becoming vacant. Then I set up a tournament to decide a new champion, and worked around Hogan's creative control by having him attacked backstage before his first round match, and thus a replacement was needed.

[toerag]

or, you could do what i did in the scenario, book him in a match with someone of equal or more overness (in my case it was Flair), and don't set a winner on the road agents notes, just, the other guy to dominate, and flair won the gold in my game. Also, has anyone noticed how loaned wrestlers all have creative control?

[foolinc]

[QUOTE=toerag;464704]or, you could do what i did in the scenario, book him in a match with someone of equal or more overness (in my case it was Flair), and don't set a winner on the road agents notes, just, the other guy to dominate, and flair won the gold in my game. Also, has anyone noticed how loaned wrestlers all have creative control?[/QUOTE] That's so you don't just job them out to nobodies.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=toerag;464704]or, you could do what i did in the scenario, book him in a match with someone of equal or more overness (in my case it was Flair), and don't set a winner on the road agents notes, just, the other guy to dominate, and flair won the gold in my game. Also, has anyone noticed how loaned wrestlers all have creative control?[/QUOTE] I have not tried that with '08, but yeah, that used to work (and I am pretty sure it still does). The problem is finding someone more over then Hogan. You have to take whoever your having more success with, and run with it. Flair might not be as over in his game as he was yours... Also, you can always leave it on Hogan, and wait for him to drop down enough to where he can even understand the loss.

[toerag]

heres the thing tho, how do you get them to lose overness without losing matches? putting them in angles with no hopers?

[mikeyg32118]

So, If I book Goldberg vs Hogan for instance...and Goldberg is more over and I put he dominates...Goldberg will probably come out on top if Goldberg is more over and I don't pick a winner?

[castorius]

I'm curious, has anybody tried booking Hogan to lose by countout or DQ? The reason I'm asking is, maybe you could book him in enough countout or DQ losses until his momentum drops. Also, have you guys tried having him lose by a tainted (cheating) win? ie. via outside interference or distraction?

[mikeyg32118]

I just tried it...still won't lose:) I'm not worried about his momentum, a matter of fact Goldberg's winning streak has caused his momentum to be A*, but still no Hogan won't job. I don't want Goldberg to win...just tested to see if it'd work.

[mad5226]

I tried many of times to make Hogan lose in every instance possible...he'll never agree...just wont happen...if it does please let me know

[Kehi7]

Hogan is the biggest jerk in my game. He got into a fight after the show with a fan. I used the fatherly approach on him, but he just sat there and looked as bored as possible. He's one of my fav wrestlers, but he just makes me want to fire his butt.

[castorius]

[QUOTE=mad5226;464731]I tried many of times to make Hogan lose in every instance possible...he'll never agree...just wont happen...if it does please let me know[/QUOTE] I personally think that this is a flaw in the game. I understand in real life that Hogan in his prime (1980s) flat out refused to lose to anybody "clean". But keep in mind he lost numerous times by countout or DQ. I mean I remember, Hogan even lost a match once against The Genius (Lanny Poffo) by countout for pete's sake. You can't tell me that Lanny Poffo ever had an A overness in his career. Losing by countout or DQ was never really a big deal. If anything, try having him lose by countout tainted win (ie. he got cheated into losing by countout - sort of like the manager pulling the top rope down so the guy would flip over the top and get counted out). Even during Hogan's real creative control clause days with WCW, Hogan would agree to lose so long as he had an excuse for the loss (Tainted Win). You know, the classic "he had the pinfall before, but the ref was distracted", "he got hit by a chair or some other cheapshot. All he simply needed was some excuse that would keep his momentum from going down too far, then he would agree. I think we can all agree that the "Creative Control Clause" feature was pretty much tailored-made with Hogan in mind. And I think we can agree that real life Hogan would be the quintessential and stiffest example of a worker exercising a Creative Control Clause. So if real life Hogan was willing to allow certain conditions slide for him to lose, I don't see why the game shouldn't allow some leeway.

[Adam Ryland]

[QUOTE=castorius;464824]So if real life Hogan was willing to allow certain conditions slide for him to lose, I don't see why the game shouldn't allow some leeway.[/QUOTE] Don't confuse real life with gameplay. Yeah, he lost by count out and DQ in real life, but in situations where it generally didn't mean anything and didn't hurt his image at all. If he would happily lose by count out or DQ in TEW all the time it would take no time at all for the user to drop his overness dramatically through all the losses. Just because something happens in reality doesn't automatically mean it's something that should be in the game.

[BrokenCycle]

I could use some confirmation from Adam on this, but I always got the feeling that creative control was basically a blockable "Worker is unhappy with the finish of the match" note that comes up. If that's the case, then I really don't see any problem with it.

[Harmor]

[QUOTE=BrokenCycle;464912]I could use some confirmation from Adam on this, but I always got the feeling that creative control was basically a blockable "Worker is unhappy with the finish of the match" note that comes up. If that's the case, then I really don't see any problem with it.[/QUOTE] No, that is what a worker says you book to lose although he is more over than the guy you book to win said match, and also not all workers who are booked to lose under those conditions will moan about it. It has nothing to do with creative control where, following my example, the worker booked to lose would refuse the finish with nothing to do about it (depends on his character too). To me, the creative control feature in TEW isn't particularly realistic either so I am usually editing contracts that have this clause. Fact of the matter is that Hogan (and to a degree Nash and Hall) refusing to job during their run with WCW is the one and only example of creative control farking the company over. Vince back then booked Hogan the way he did cause at that time Hogan was WWF's prime babyface, a larger than life superhero babyface. Times change however and no one in modern wrestling (save for HHH perhaps but that's a different story ^^) refuses to lay down should the storyline call for it. Remember Hogan's run in WWE in .. 2002 or so? He did quite a number of jobs if I recall right ... See, that's the thing - in TEW, the fact a worker is in a storyline is utterly ignored by the guy. The game doesn't seem to acknowledge that a worker is currently in a storyline, and the steps in a storyline don't matter to him at all. If that was the case however, the guy in question would know how it was to play out in advance. So back to the Hogan example, a character in TEW with a creative control clause should have no problem to lose via DQ or even pinfall (perhaps tainted) during a storyline if the outcome of the SL would put him over at last (for example a best-of x matches storyline to keep things simple). That would be quite cool a feature to have in the TEW series cause at least to me it would add quite some immersion if the game would acknowledge the storylines I am running (and not just as an arbitrary number of SLs my fans want to see ... well more like, want to know are there as it stands). Same for On Loan guys. As it is right now, you can't book interpromotional stuff (remember CZW vs. ROH) properly because you won't get an On Loan main eventer to lose. I can understand this to a certain degree as surely no promotion would want their main eventers to be jobbed out in a fed they have a working agreement with, but I think it needs some reworking. See the thing is, I can't book an interpromotional storyline with a friend I am playing a 2 Player game with anyhow, with the only workaround being to hire the guys he has too and pretend to have a SL like that, but its just not the same (especially immersion wise). So essentially the working agreement feature is kind of useless to me because it misses the point in a way. Surely a guy I have On-Loan can boost my show's rating if he defeats random curtain-jerker A, B and C and then goes back home, but that isn't exactly WHY promotions do this kinda stuff (again, remember CZW vs. ROH). So finally, sorry to say Adam I can't agree when you say just because something happens IRL it shouldn't happen in a game. As long as its not a Sci Fi or Fantasy game, just look around the video game market. Games that 'simulate' any real life stuff try to get as close to the real thing as the developers can, and quite frankly that is the very meaning of the genre labeled 'Simulation' (I know games like say for example Need for Speed are unrealistic as hell but they don't pretend to be a simulation in the first place). I am not saying I am unhappy with TEW, infact I have a lot of fun, but I think everyone will agree that there is a lot of unused potential left.

[Rob4590]

[QUOTE=Harmor;464930]Same for On Loan guys. As it is right now, you can't book interpromotional stuff (remember CZW vs. ROH) properly because you won't get an On Loan main eventer to lose. I can understand this to a certain degree as surely no promotion would want their main eventers to be jobbed out in a fed they have a working agreement with, but I think it needs some reworking. See the thing is, I can't book an interpromotional storyline with a friend I am playing a 2 Player game with anyhow, with the only workaround being to hire the guys he has too and pretend to have a SL like that, but its just not the same (especially immersion wise). So essentially the working agreement feature is kind of useless to me because it misses the point in a way. Surely a guy I have On-Loan can boost my show's rating if he defeats random curtain-jerker A, B and C and then goes back home, but that isn't exactly WHY promotions do this kinda stuff (again, remember CZW vs. ROH). [/QUOTE] I think you are missing the point of creative control - on loan wrestlers WILL lose - but not to wrestlers that are A LOT lower in popularity than them. SOME on loan wrestlers will lose to your guys who ARE lower pop - it depends on the on loan workers personality eg In a PGHW game - I loaned in Eagle Kawasawa and VENOM from GCG. Venom did the job quite happily to lower pop workers, while Eagle was a pain in the rear end - refusing to job even to guys with the same overness. You just have to use a bit of common sense in who you match them up with :D Similarly for wrestlers in your own company with CC - if you try and have them lose to someone with less pop - then they are (obviously) gonna refuse - and rightly so - after all, what use would CC be if you couldn't refuse to job? :p Now in the Hulk Hogan example in the OP's post - clearly Hogan is not only extremely popular (so won't lose to 99% of other wrestlers cos they aren't as popular) but his personality is set as an a***hole - so he doesn't want to lose even to guys that are level with him. That is a MOD problem - not a gameplay problem. ;)

[Moe Hunter]

I'd say Hogan being an ass is about accurate. I'm sure he would just say that God laid some heavy **** on the player :P Besides, if you recall his last two matches ever - against Shawn Michaels and then Randy Orton... Who should have won? Who needed the rub? Not Hogan, but he took it.

[Harmor]

[QUOTE=Rob4590;464944]I think you are missing the point of creative control - on loan wrestlers WILL lose - but not to wrestlers that are A LOT lower in popularity than them. SOME on loan wrestlers will lose to your guys who ARE lower pop - it depends on the on loan workers personality eg In a PGHW game - I loaned in Eagle Kawasawa and VENOM from GCG. Venom did the job quite happily to lower pop workers, while Eagle was a pain in the rear end - refusing to job even to guys with the same overness. You just have to use a bit of common sense in who you match them up with :D Similarly for wrestlers in your own company with CC - if you try and have them lose to someone with less pop - then they are (obviously) gonna refuse - and rightly so - after all, what use would CC be if you couldn't refuse to job? :p Now in the Hulk Hogan example in the OP's post - clearly Hogan is not only extremely popular (so won't lose to 99% of other wrestlers cos they aren't as popular) but his personality is set as an a***hole - so he doesn't want to lose even to guys that are level with him. That is a MOD problem - not a gameplay problem. ;)[/QUOTE] I ain't talking about how things are atm but how they should be realistically. I know how the game works ;)

[Rob4590]

[QUOTE=Harmor;464976]I ain't talking about how things are atm but how they should be realistically. I know how the game works ;)[/QUOTE] Again - I'll repeat - [QUOTE=Rob4590;464944]That is a MOD problem - not a gameplay problem. ;)[/QUOTE]

[Purple Cowboy]

[QUOTE=Harmor;464930]The game doesn't seem to acknowledge that a worker is currently in a storyline, and the steps in a storyline don't matter to him at all. If that was the case however, the guy in question would know how it was to play out in advance.[/quote] That's interesting... I think it would actually be pretty cool if workers "knew" the storyline they were participating in. Maybe then they could also object to being used in certain storylines and let you know why ahead of time.

[Harmor]

[QUOTE=Rob4590;464982]Again - I'll repeat -[/QUOTE] Err .. You need to re-read my post I think. What I wrote went actually a little beyond mods/real life data. As it stands, if I create a mod and copy the record from some Cornellverse dude to use it for a real life dude or vice versa, the same would apply. Mods are just settings, I am talking about core game mechanics. You apparently didn't notice the bridge I tried to strike between worker character/Creative Control/Storylines and how none of that is linked in the game, while on the other hand it is one of the most important connections in real life when we're talking CC. Remember how Hogan refused to work with Bret Hart? One example out of many and I don't want to go into that again as I covered it I think in my initial post. With that in mind, the Creative Control thing in TEW as it is right now is simply wrong, or in other words, too shallow. Notice the difference?

[Rob4590]

If you try and link creative control to being part (or not) of a storyline, then you are totally invalidating the whole point of creative control - since then if you wish to get round CC, you just put the worker in a storyline where it is allowed to get round the CC. It would just make it a cheat mechanism to get round a feature. In real life - there would be very very few people who would have total creative control over their wins / losses - and that is how it should be in every mod (including C-Verse) - and thus it is up to the mod maker to set the correct people (with the correct personalities) with CC - thus making the mod playable. And as has already been said by someone else - if you don't like having a worker with CC in your fed - then you can edit their contract in the editor :)