Wrestling things everyone hated but you loved

[Guest Ransik]

[QUOTE=SuperOwens;466911]That's because Tank Abbot was going to get the title. This is the decision that got Russo the chop. Maybe if he hadn't booked him as a dancer it would have been better...[/QUOTE] Yeah but that was the point... which is why I don't get it. ANYONE could've beaten Arquette to win the WCW Title from Shannon Moore to Goldberg, the whole point was that at any time, anyone on the roster could've walked away with the gold. It was a brilliant move IMO... just not for Tank. :D

[Guest Ransik]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;467033]On "That sellout Rock": There's this saying among wrestlers that what fans call "selling out" is what a wrestler calls "feeding my family." Obviously The Rock wasn't hurting for money, but the idea that he was selling out by taking a job that wouldn't leave him crippled by retirement is ridiculous. When a pro wrestler turns into a mainstream media icon it benefits the entire industry. When it's a guy like Dwayne Johnson, who's not going to make a spectacle out of himself by driving drunk and beating his wife like some people I could mention, so much the better. When The Rock decided to go and make movies he was performing a great service for wrestling fans. Hey, look, here's a genuinely entertaining, funny and athletic guy that those wrestling fans have been watching for years! He's not a drug addict or an alcoholic, and people are cheering him even though he isn't white! Maybe those wrestling fans aren't inbred hicks after all! Three hundred days a year, The Rock was [i]killing himself[/i] for you and me and everyone else who watched wrestling. Whether you were a fan or not, his workmanship and professionalism raised the bar for the rest of the roster, and by extension the rosters of other companies as well. For a couple of years he was [i]the guy[/i], the one who had to carry the entire company on his shoulders. Three hundred days a year, face of the company, attending political conventions to represent pro wrestling interests, doing commercials, and still being able to smile and fulfill a record number of Make-A-Wish Foundation requests. What some people like to call a sellout these days comes awfully close to my definition of hero.[/QUOTE] People aren't calling him a sell-out because he went into movies to make more money. They call him a sell-out because he's stated he wants nothing to do with the wrestling business AT ALL unless it involves The Hall of Fame, whether it be inducting family or being inducted himself. The business MADE HIM a star... it wouldn't kill him to come back and pass the torch in a high profile match or even make an appearance once every couple years and help get someone over. Instead he says "The Rock" is dead and he will never go back. The WWF made The Rock a household name and got the doors open for him to go into the movie business... and he acts like wrestling had nothing to do with it at all. As much of a prick that Hogan is... he's done more to put people over after making it big in the movies than The Rock has done... and THAT should make Mr. Johnson feel very ashamed of himself. Hogan solidified Warrior, Goldberg, Sting and others as legends because of winning World Titles from Hogan... Rock just walked away and is being more polite about it than Brock Lesnar is.

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=Ransik;467164]People aren't calling him a sell-out because he went into movies to make more money. They call him a sell-out because he's stated he wants nothing to do with the wrestling business AT ALL unless it involves The Hall of Fame, whether it be inducting family or being inducted himself. The business MADE HIM a star... it wouldn't kill him to come back and pass the torch in a high profile match or even make an appearance once every couple years and help get someone over. Instead he says "The Rock" is dead and he will never go back. The WWF made The Rock a household name and got the doors open for him to go into the movie business... and he acts like wrestling had nothing to do with it at all. As much of a prick that Hogan is... he's done more to put people over after making it big in the movies than The Rock has done... and THAT should make Mr. Johnson feel very ashamed of himself. Hogan solidified Warrior, Goldberg, Sting and others as legends because of winning World Titles from Hogan... Rock just walked away and is being more polite about it than Brock Lesnar is.[/QUOTE] I just woke up (yes, at noon, shut up), so I'm not in the mood to argue with someone who seems to be from a different planet than myself. Instead I'll leave the rebuttal to John C. McGinley. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY[/url]

[Guest Ransik]

[QUOTE=shamelessposer;467195]I just woke up (yes, at noon, shut up), so I'm not in the mood to argue with someone who seems to be from a different planet than myself. Instead I'll leave the rebuttal to John C. McGinley. [url]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WrjwaqZfjIY[/url][/QUOTE] Thanks for being an adult about it. ;)

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=Ransik;467225]Thanks for being an adult about it. ;)[/QUOTE] I'll be an adult once I've been conscious for a couple of hours.

[djthefunkchris]

[QUOTE=Ransik;467164]People aren't calling him a sell-out because he went into movies to make more money. They call him a sell-out because he's stated he wants nothing to do with the wrestling business AT ALL unless it involves The Hall of Fame, whether it be inducting family or being inducted himself. The business MADE HIM a star... it wouldn't kill him to come back and pass the torch in a high profile match or even make an appearance once every couple years and help get someone over. Instead he says "The Rock" is dead and he will never go back. The WWF made The Rock a household name and got the doors open for him to go into the movie business... and he acts like wrestling had nothing to do with it at all. As much of a prick that Hogan is... he's done more to put people over after making it big in the movies than The Rock has done... and THAT should make Mr. Johnson feel very ashamed of himself. Hogan solidified Warrior, Goldberg, Sting and others as legends because of winning World Titles from Hogan... Rock just walked away and is being more polite about it than Brock Lesnar is.[/QUOTE] Although I sort of aggree with the comparison there, I have to be say something for The Rock here. First off, if he was to do something like you suggested, where is the "Cut-Off" point? Hogan didn't do it just to pass the torch, he does things like this for the fans, and for HIMSELF. He likes it, if he was healthy, he would have been in the running with Ric Flair, as far as longevity is concerned. Hogan loves Wrestling, and he loves being in the spotlight. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but his movie carreer didn't really take off either. He had one good movie, just that one. The rest, nope, nothing of interest really. So what I'm saying is that The Rock, although it would be great if he did those things your talking about, if he actually did them..> Where would the cut-off be. He's not interested in keeping his name out there in the wrestling world, but doesn't have a problem with sharing things with his fans (DVD's, etc.). That's not hurting the WWE either, since it looks for certain he won't be back, it makes any DVD they do with him, that more successfull and personal. If he passed the torch to someone, and that person ends up on the roid list, or dirty laundry, then he pass's it for no reason. I see your point, but I think it's the point of a fan wanting to see The Rock one more time in action, rather then the point of someone looking at things at a more reasonable perspective. The Rock not wrestling doesn't leave a statement of "Sell-Out", but I like to think of "Respect". Respect to let the wrestling industry move on without him... Something Hogan has had a hard time doing.

[RKO_HBK]

Not read the rest of the posts yet so not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but *possible spoilers for ECW, cos it's not aired here (UK) yet, so highlight to read*... [COLOR="White"]The new ECW Title. From what I've seen, it looks pretty cool. I'll withold total judgement until after the show tonight but from the picture on 411mania it looks great, but they slammed it just like the Diva's title.[/COLOR]

[G-Prime]

Didn't Rocky give Brock 'The Next Big Thing' Lesnar the rub? And didn't he come back to give Randy Orton (and Batista) the rub during the Orton/Foley feud? So you can't really accuse him of not passing the torch.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=Ransik;467164]People aren't calling him a sell-out because he went into movies to make more money. They call him a sell-out because he's stated he wants nothing to do with the wrestling business AT ALL unless it involves The Hall of Fame, whether it be inducting family or being inducted himself. The business MADE HIM a star... it wouldn't kill him to come back and pass the torch in a high profile match or even make an appearance once every couple years and help get someone over. Instead he says "The Rock" is dead and he will never go back. The WWF made The Rock a household name and got the doors open for him to go into the movie business... and he acts like wrestling had nothing to do with it at all. As much of a prick that Hogan is... he's done more to put people over after making it big in the movies than The Rock has done... and THAT should make Mr. Johnson feel very ashamed of himself. Hogan solidified Warrior, Goldberg, Sting and others as legends because of winning World Titles from Hogan... Rock just walked away and is being more polite about it than Brock Lesnar is.[/QUOTE] Ransik, it's business. You do realize movie contracts are signed sometimes years in advance, yes? What happens if Dwayne Johnson signs onto a project at an agreed upon rate of say, $22 million, and then does a gig for WWE and gets hurt? You know, all of WWE's workers aren't really skilled and/or safe enough to trust. So he's hurt and either the production is delayed (at a cost of MILLIONS) or they replace him and he doesn't get his $22 million. Is WWE going to give him that $22 million he missed out on? I don't think so. Inducting someone into the Hall of Fame is extremely low impact, wouldn't you say? Also, mentioning Hogan's movie career is a mistake. Please list the movies that Hogan has done that have grossed over $100 million domestically (the basic qualifying mark for 'blockbuster' status). Hell, since the business has changed so drastically over the last 5 years or so, name the movies Hogan's done that have grossed over $100 [B][I]worldwide[/I][/B]. Anyone? Anyone? Bueller? I didn't note that to be a smart ass (honest!). I'm just trying to illustrate to you that all Hogan has is wrestling. That's it! He can't do movies! Show of hands, how many people are going to plunk down $10.50 (or whatever movies cost in the UK/Europe) to see Hogan on the big screen? "Bah, I'll get it from Netflix" is what a lot of statesiders would say, I'd wager. Hogan does dates because he has to (especially now, with an almost ex wife trying to bleed him). If Rock wanted Simone to do an album, would he have to agree to do a "reality TV" show exposing his entire family's life or would he call a friend at Disney and get her signed to Hollywood Records? And I'm pretty sure that Simone, even at 7, would move more than 125,000 units! My point is, you can't compare Hogan to Rock. One is a megastar in a day and age when megastars can (and do) become moguls. The other is trying his best to hold on to what little fame he has left and at the same time, trying to get some fame and fortune on his daughter without her having enough autonomy to flame out like so many others have. Which is which? [QUOTE=djthefunkchris;467243]Although I sort of aggree with the comparison there, I have to be say something for The Rock here. First off, if he was to do something like you suggested, where is the "Cut-Off" point? Hogan didn't do it just to pass the torch, he does things like this for the fans, and for HIMSELF. He likes it, if he was healthy, he would have been in the running with Ric Flair, as far as longevity is concerned. Hogan loves Wrestling, and he loves being in the spotlight. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but his movie carreer didn't really take off either. He had one good movie, just that one. The rest, nope, nothing of interest really. So what I'm saying is that The Rock, although it would be great if he did those things your talking about, if he actually did them..> Where would the cut-off be. He's not interested in keeping his name out there in the wrestling world, but doesn't have a problem with sharing things with his fans (DVD's, etc.). That's not hurting the WWE either, since it looks for certain he won't be back, it makes any DVD they do with him, that more successfull and personal. If he passed the torch to someone, and that person ends up on the roid list, or dirty laundry, then he pass's it for no reason. I see your point, but I think it's the point of a fan wanting to see The Rock one more time in action, rather then the point of someone looking at things at a more reasonable perspective. The Rock not wrestling doesn't leave a statement of "Sell-Out", but I like to think of "Respect". Respect to let the wrestling industry move on without him... Something Hogan has had a hard time doing.[/QUOTE] OH MY GOD! I..I...I agree with chris! :eek: :p

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=G-Prime;467597]Didn't Rocky give Brock 'The Next Big Thing' Lesnar the rub? And didn't he come back to give Randy Orton (and Batista) the rub during the Orton/Foley feud? So you can't really accuse him of not passing the torch.[/QUOTE] You're letting facts get in the way of a perfectly serviceable anti-WWE loyalist rant.

[Actarus]

[QUOTE=Remianen;467680] OH MY GOD! I..I...I agree with chris! :eek: :p[/QUOTE] :eek: Okay, that's it, the world's clearly ending. 'Banger, you get my CD collection. Astil, you get my DVD collection (it's mostly anime). Remi, you get my comic book / graphic novel collection. It was nice knowing you all. :p

[Guest The Aussie]

What about your Jim Force merchandise?

[keefmoon]

Not that I want to interrupt what is a fascinating discussion on peoples opinions on what is loyalty and selling out, but I thought of another thing that was hated but for some reason I really liked (and this is one of your non-sensical attractions). "The One" Billy Gunn. Absolutely no idea why I liked it, but I really did for some reason.

[ColtCabana]

[QUOTE=keefmoon;467958]Not that I want to interrupt what is a fascinating discussion on peoples opinions on what is loyalty and selling out, but I thought of another thing that was hated but for some reason I really liked (and this is one of your non-sensical attractions). "The One" Billy Gunn. Absolutely no idea why I liked it, but I really did for some reason.[/QUOTE] Maybe you liked his cheesy theme music :D:D

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=keefmoon;467958]Not that I want to interrupt what is a fascinating discussion on peoples opinions on what is loyalty and selling out, but I thought of another thing that was hated but for some reason I really liked (and this is one of your non-sensical attractions). "The One" Billy Gunn. Absolutely no idea why I liked it, but I really did for some reason.[/QUOTE] I share your pain. For some reason I really liked that version of Billy Gunn. I think he made the final four of the 2001 Royal Rumble before someone pulled the plug on what looked like a slow burn approach to a main event run.

[keefmoon]

[QUOTE=ColtCabana;467987]Maybe you liked his cheesy theme music :D:D[/QUOTE] Or the fact that he was just pure cheese throughout. The look, the music, finisher, it was all so typically clean cut do gooder face. I have no idea why I bought in to it but yeah, I dug it. [QUOTE=shamelessposer;467988]I share your pain. For some reason I really liked that version of Billy Gunn. I think he made the final four of the 2001 Royal Rumble before pulled the plug on what looked like a slow burn approach to a main event run.[/QUOTE] Yay! I'm not alone! I was never a big Billy Gunn fan, I thought he was fine as a midcard tag team wrestler but never anything else, then suddenly he does a hugely lame, overly face gimmick and suddenly I liked him. I too remember the Rumble and he did look pretty strong in it, thought he was at least IC Title worthy. Meanwhile everyone else reads this and decides it's game over for their respect of me...

[arwink]

Mark Henry - it hurts to say it, but I've actually found him entertaining over the last year or so. "Love Machine" era Viscera.

[CQI13]

But Rock did put a lot of people over... As stated: Brock, Orton, Batista, the freaking Hurricane (until that was squased a week later), Billy Gunn after Gunn had won the King of the Ring. And the fact that they trusted him enough with the debuts of Jericho (when Jericho interrupted his promo) and being the first feud against Goldberg says a lot. Plenty of stars in other industries don't do anything with their former industry and they aren't really selling out. Just look at Jim McMahon (Bears QB in 84) and Larry Csonka (from the great Dolphin teams of the 70s), they don't follow football anymore, they 're not interested in being involved with that. Good for them for being able to move on. Back on topic after that tangent, I must say I was always entertained by Mark Henry, the dude can be entertaining. I was watching the Best of RAW DVD (the 3 disc set), and I must say, the Eugene character was great (I wasn't watching much wrestling at the time)...That musical chairs segment had me in tears. Orton would be another. Say what you will about his mic work, but Bret Hart was never brilliant on the mic either (not until giving his more impassioned promos with the Hart Foundation in the late 90s). And Orton I find entertaining in the ring as well (yes, lots of rest holds, but that's how I see his character).

[tristram]

I'm guessing people don't like the triad of Shark Boy, Curry Man and Super Eric? I don't like the premise, but heh they had a funny backstage segment at the last show. Curry Man is a riot. They were trying to come up with a catchphrase for their group... and they decided on "We come in peace, we leave you in peaces..." Curry Man's version "rahhh...roook... So, We come and p!ss, we reave you in p!sses..."

[CQI13]

Things everyone hated but I loved....Vince Russo. No, I'm serious. Sure he used to make himself the star of the show, and thought too highly of himself in WCW. And not sure that he can follow through from a hot start (as evidenced during the Millionaire's Club vs New Blood angle), but I like the fact that he tried to get everyone over to some extent.

[shamelessposer]

[QUOTE=CQI13;470134]Things everyone hated but I loved....Vince Russo. No, I'm serious. Sure he used to make himself the star of the show, and thought too highly of himself in WCW. And not sure that he can follow through from a hot start (as evidenced during the Millionaire's Club vs New Blood angle), [b]but I like the fact that he tried to get everyone over to some extent.[/b][/QUOTE] That's something a lot of people forget. Vince Russo did a lot of crappy storylines in his time with WCW, but he fought tooth and nail to elevate new guys past the point of just being jobbers. And Russo's first booking tenure with WCW brought ratings up by a full point within only a few months, so there was obviously a market for what he was selling.

[tristram]

I honestly feel Vince Russo was much like DOWCW said - great ideas, but some sh!thouse ones that needed serious monitoring, which was why he was successful under Vince McMahon. The New Blood v Millionaires Club storyline was wicked, but then from a very good premise it all went to crap. Probably because of politics, but even where it didn't appear politics got involved there was just so many holes in the plot lines. People cane WCW around that era, and rightly so, I look back and think christ that was crap. But this storyline and a few others initiatives were very good. I think though because of finger poke of doom, the misuse of Sting at Starrcade '97, the destruction of Ric Flair and the Horsemen, that anything that Russo could do was going to be criticised like a igloo in Dallas and whatever good intentions he had well politics and the like where so rife that they were going to get screwed anyway. In truth. I think they'd reached fairly close to the point of no return when you couple that with fans just wanting to enjoy the Attitude era, and WCW not being able to compete with it. It was if Hulk Hogan and Nash and all these guys who screwed WCW were content to sit idly by blame Russo and the like and then sorta go if they're going down he's talking all of the rest of them with them. Sad but true.

[cappyboy]

Good topic. As well as the flip side topic where my choices already seem to be well-represented. But I notice a couple things here that haven't come up much. American Badass style Undertaker. I know a lot of the Net hated this gimmick with a passion. People wanted him back as the Deadman and really gave this biker gimmick a lot of guff. But for me it was one of the few biker gimmicks that had ever worked for me. It kinda took me back to my kiddie mark days in that I didn't like the character because Taker wrestled so much better while he had it. Or because he had more charisma once he emerged from the shadows and took to his bike. It was a visceral thing for me. Taker as the American Badass reminded me of my older brother who used to be a biker. So watching Taker during this phase was like spending quality time with my brother I couldn't physically have because my brother lives in Alabama and I'm in Virginia. "That 70's Guy" Mike Awesome. I know a lot of folks wanted him to be the monster type. To stomp and clomp around and beat the crap out of people like they'd just disgraced his mother. But when I'm watching wrestling, I want to get lost in the moment and not think about "Oh so this is Kendrick's new gimmick" and junk like that. I just want to be able to go with the flow and see people in gimmicks that make me forget they are gimmicks. That's what Awesome did as That 70's Guy. It may not have been what the hoi polloi in the IWC wanted to see but Awesome really made me believe in that gimmick. It seemed totally reasonable that he was this disco-obsessed wannabe love machine who didn't quite have the mojo to carry off his amorous ambitions. I can come on here or other similar boards and say "Oh man, Jesse's promo was so cool because of X,Y, and Z." But I'm thinking that during a show, that's bad. That's reminding me it's all fake and not giving me the escape I came to your wrestling promotion to get. Whatever anybody else thought, whatever the backstage politics for it, Awesome sold the gimmick well enough to give me that escape.

[Superkevd]

As was mentioned previously Right To censor, I remember one week they stopped Sable or someone from stripping and at the time i hated them so much(I think at the time i just really wanted to see boobies) but I should hate the heels and thinking back how much possibilities is there for a heel group that wants to stop any risky angles. Theres so much potential in that group I loved how they turned the most risky gimmicked stars into members too(val venis and godfather) it was all set up so perfect i dunno how it failed. (I'm also a bit of a mark for Venis and Richards).

[tristram]

[QUOTE=cappyboy;470482]Good topic. As well as the flip side topic where my choices already seem to be well-represented. But I notice a couple things here that haven't come up much. American Badass style Undertaker. I know a lot of the Net hated this gimmick with a passion. People wanted him back as the Deadman and really gave this biker gimmick a lot of guff. But for me it was one of the few biker gimmicks that had ever worked for me. It kinda took me back to my kiddie mark days in that I didn't like the character because Taker wrestled so much better while he had it. Or because he had more charisma once he emerged from the shadows and took to his bike. It was a visceral thing for me. Taker as the American Badass reminded me of my older brother who used to be a biker. So watching Taker during this phase was like spending quality time with my brother I couldn't physically have because my brother lives in Alabama and I'm in Virginia. "That 70's Guy" Mike Awesome. I know a lot of folks wanted him to be the monster type. To stomp and clomp around and beat the crap out of people like they'd just disgraced his mother. But when I'm watching wrestling, I want to get lost in the moment and not think about "Oh so this is Kendrick's new gimmick" and junk like that. I just want to be able to go with the flow and see people in gimmicks that make me forget they are gimmicks. That's what Awesome did as That 70's Guy. It may not have been what the hoi polloi in the IWC wanted to see but Awesome really made me believe in that gimmick. It seemed totally reasonable that he was this disco-obsessed wannabe love machine who didn't quite have the mojo to carry off his amorous ambitions. I can come on here or other similar boards and say "Oh man, Jesse's promo was so cool because of X,Y, and Z." But I'm thinking that during a show, that's bad. That's reminding me it's all fake and not giving me the escape I came to your wrestling promotion to get. Whatever anybody else thought, whatever the backstage politics for it, Awesome sold the gimmick well enough to give me that escape.[/QUOTE] You're right, That's 70's Guy was a good gimmick. So was the Fat Chick Thriller.. But they weren't suited to Mike Awesome. Furthermore, you give those gimmicks to guys who need to solidify as a comic routine before you unleash them from the shackles and give them the big push. Awesome was starting to get over, he had his own gimmick match (The Ambulance Match) and if there was anyone who had the killer powerhouse look in WCW it was Mike Awesome. That 70's guy and the Fat Chick Thriller routine took him away from that. So while fantastic gmmicks because frankly they made me laugh, it's not what his career needed - it would be like making Kronik into Jung Dragons, the Dragons have their place, but not with their momentum or physicality.