Diary Writing Tips

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=cmdrsam;603755]I agree. Sometimes alittle feedback one way or another goes a long way. Iv got one going right now. I have 5 messages, 4 of them mine, and 181 veiws. Bangs head on table. Sorry all if this comes off as a rant. I know I'm not as talented as the great ones out here. But I try. I have done works with lots of detail. Iv done works with backstage meetings. Interaction with charactors. I just dont have a clue I guess as to what the people want.[/QUOTE] There is a real tendency on this board amongst readers to give a new diary a bit of time. Its a learned response, I think, from so many diaries going belly-up after a promising start. You get a get good backstory, an interesting set-up, maybe even a couple of shows, and then its done. That happens to the majority of diaries that start on here. Now, you can argue that readers not responding much right at the beginning is part of what causes so many diaries to die so quickly, but a lot seem to die even when they do get that immediate response. I've seen your Memphis diary, and its a great start. The three shows posted so far are solid, while the historical information is really helpful. Try not to get discouraged, because consistent quality will attract readers. It just doesn't always happen immediately. Not to mention that historical real world diaries and be a tough sell for the first bit, it seems.

[ya_its_me]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;603377]Very much agree. Feedback of any sort is huge as a diary writer. I've said a number of times that, personally, I thrive on feedback. So every few pages of my diary, I end up doing a "comment, please" thing if people aren't posted. Its not a need for continual justification, as I find negative feedback massively useful so long as its constructive. Personally, I've tried to get more consistent in offering feedback. Even if its just to say something as simple as "hey, enjoyed the last show". Still don't do it enough, but at least it lets writers know that I'm reading.[/QUOTE] Same here on the thriving on feedback part, my new WCW diary got tons of feedback so far and the first show hasn't even been posted! And usually I feel more motivated to continue the diary the more feedback it gets.

[angeldelayette]

I completely agree about the feedback needed to continue a diary. It is the main reason for posting a diary, really. Otherwise, we'd just run the games on our own. I personally have at least two reasons off the top of my head for running my diary. The first is to get feedback and interaction with my diary. The second is to keep my thoughts and stories organized in a fashion better than I would do with a game on my own. I do get a lot of predictions and I'm thankful for those and thankful for those who read my diary as well even if you don't comment. I would appreciate more comments on what people like or dislike, a little more detailed comments which I do get at times. But I definitely take all that I can get.

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=Bigpapa42;603762]There is a real tendency on this board amongst readers to give a new diary a bit of time. Its a learned response, I think, from so many diaries going belly-up after a promising start. You get a get good backstory, an interesting set-up, maybe even a couple of shows, and then its done. That happens to the majority of diaries that start on here. Now, you can argue that readers not responding much right at the beginning is part of what causes so many diaries to die so quickly, but a lot seem to die even when they do get that immediate response.[/QUOTE] I can understand this point of view. I know my diaries in the past (and present) have suffered from my tendency to be very verbose. I'm also a graphic sl00t so my shows tend to take about a day to write and several hours to format and post. That makes it real hard to maintain a brisk pace. This time, I have a solution so we'll see how it works out. Comments are always awesome, even if they're critical. Different points of view often present opportunities for creativity that wouldn't have existed previously.

[crayon]

[QUOTE=Remianen;603815]I can understand this point of view. I know my diaries in the past (and present) have suffered from my tendency to be very verbose. I'm also a graphic sl00t so my shows tend to take about a day to write and several hours to format and post. That makes it real hard to maintain a brisk pace. This time, I have a solution so we'll see how it works out.[/QUOTE] Oh, I feel that pain (not just here, but with other forums I would post stuff on). I wish I knew how to code because I'd set up a website which would allow you to enter in your data, and through the use of templates and options, get a nicely presented html display of your "diary entry" instead of a wall of text. Before I start my next diary I'm going to whip up some basic graphics (headers, line breakers, etc) which I can quickly insert to spruce things up.

[Self]

Your shows only take a day to write? Mine take about 8! Formatting is also consuming, but key in my book. Gotta get that presentation down. I can't stand blocks of text.

[FINisher]

[quote=crayon;604157]Oh, I feel that pain (not just here, but with other forums I would post stuff on). I wish I knew how to code because I'd set up a website which would allow you to enter in your data, and through the use of templates and options, get a nicely presented html display of your "diary entry" instead of a wall of text.[/quote] If you're not sure how to do it, just quote the show report? Or press right mouse button on top of the addition (Picture, graphic, video etc) and search for the details. My browser is in finnish so I don't know the right english translation for the term. But you can do a lot by just inserting simple images with the [IMG] code. For video inserting, use the "embed" code. Removed the start and the ending. You find it on youtube, on the right below the details and such, it goes something like this: object width="425" height="344" param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/P5jbo7lxPqc&hl=en&fs=1" /param> For theme playing etc, you need to have an image and the url for the video. Here's Acid's/Aether's theme done in my CGC diary a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ch905hmtb7M" target="_blank" img src="http://koti.mbnet.fi/sadhappy/CGC/play3.png" alt="" border="0"> Removed the < and > and others thing from it so that it won't show :D The first url is the video, with the second being the "play" image. I hope this helps. Here's the thing done properly, right click on it and search for details yourself.. / select the image by holding mouse button and "painting" the image, then "show source code" or something like that.. [B]EDIT: Here's a screenshot of the text[/B], the upper one is the embed code of the video, the second is the code for the play image & video (As a small theme button) [IMG]http://koti.mbnet.fi/sadhappy/screenshotdiaryhelp.jpg[/IMG]

[Remianen]

For all you SE fans, read [URL="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/wrestling/heyman/article1900416.ece"]this article[/URL]. Now, read between the lines and see exactly how that translates to your promotion's shows. The tenets advocated in the article (and the "street cred" the author possesses) are pretty much universal in the areas of character and storyline development. Think of your favorite storylines of all time. Now, break them down to their individual parts. What hooked you on the storyline? Why did you care about the characters involved? What part of each piece of the storyline compelled you to tune in (or buy the PPV) to see it to its conclusion? What about that storyline made you even buy the DVD months/years/decades later to revisit it? In short, what made it memorable to you? When planning out your shows and storylines, keep those things in mind. Heck, use those memorable stories as an outline for your own writing. When developing characters, think about characters you liked or loved over the years, from any medium. Which was your favorite lion (Voltron)? Why? Who was your favorite G.I.Joe character? Why? Who was your favorite Thundercat? Why? Who is your favorite Dragonball Z character? Why? What character did you always gravitate to when playing Street Fighter? Why? Who was your favorite Star Wars character? Why? Who is your favorite Lord of the Rings character? Why? Break it down and you'll find threads that can be used to weave your characters' personalities. Then, and this is the hardest part for me, figure out how to convey those characters' personalities in as few words as possible.

[Bigpapa42]

[QUOTE=Remianen;604723]For all you SE fans, read [URL="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/wrestling/heyman/article1900416.ece"]this article[/URL]. Now, read between the lines and see exactly how that translates to your promotion's shows. The tenets advocated in the article (and the "street cred" the author possesses) are pretty much universal in the areas of character and storyline development. Think of your favorite storylines of all time. Now, break them down to their individual parts. What hooked you on the storyline? Why did you care about the characters involved? What part of each piece of the storyline compelled you to tune in (or buy the PPV) to see it to its conclusion? What about that storyline made you even buy the DVD months/years/decades later to revisit it? In short, what made it memorable to you? When planning out your shows and storylines, keep those things in mind. Heck, use those memorable stories as an outline for your own writing. When developing characters, think about characters you liked or loved over the years, from any medium. Which was your favorite lion (Voltron)? Why? Who was your favorite G.I.Joe character? Why? Who was your favorite Thundercat? Why? Who is your favorite Dragonball Z character? Why? What character did you always gravitate to when playing Street Fighter? Why? Who was your favorite Star Wars character? Why? Who is your favorite Lord of the Rings character? Why? Break it down and you'll find threads that can be used to weave your characters' personalities. Then, and this is the hardest part for me, figure out how to convey those characters' personalities in as few words as possible.[/QUOTE] Great post, Remianen. When I first started, I was trying to create characters from scratch and I struggled. I found a link to a site with TV tropes and started using those characterizations as the basis for a number of my primary characters. You basically just have the basic outline of a stock character and then you just have to flesh it out a bit. Its so much easier.

[crayon]

[QUOTE=FINisher;604181]If you're not sure how to do it, just quote the show report? Or press right mouse button on top of the addition (Picture, graphic, video etc) and search for the details. My browser is in finnish so I don't know the right english translation for the term. But you can do a lot by just inserting simple images with the [IMG] code. [lotsa stuff][/QUOTE] Firstly, handy information you just gave me there. So thanks for that. Although, when I was talking about coding a website, I didn't just mean html, but a frontend that anyone (you, this guy over here, that guy over there, etc) could sign up to and throw in their text and easily implement images, video and such and have it pop out in an attractive format without any knowledge of html (in other words, the website backend would do all the hard formatting work for you). Not to mention having specific templates which would display angles in a different manner to commentary, which would also look completely different to match write-ups. Ahh, but that's all big dreaming for now. Carry on with the diary writing tips guys :)

[Self]

[QUOTE=Remianen;604723]For all you SE fans, read [URL="http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/sport/wrestling/heyman/article1900416.ece"]this article[/URL]. Now, read between the lines and see exactly how that translates to your promotion's shows. The tenets advocated in the article (and the "street cred" the author possesses) are pretty much universal in the areas of character and storyline development.Think of your favorite storylines of all time. Now, break them down to their individual parts. What hooked you on the storyline? Why did you care about the characters involved? What part of each piece of the storyline compelled you to tune in (or buy the PPV) to see it to its conclusion? What about that storyline made you even buy the DVD months/years/decades later to revisit it? In short, what made it memorable to you? When planning out your shows and storylines, keep those things in mind. Heck, use those memorable stories as an outline for your own writing. When developing characters, think about characters you liked or loved over the years, from any medium. Which was your favorite lion (Voltron)? Why? Who was your favorite G.I.Joe character? Why? Who was your favorite Thundercat? Why? Who is your favorite Dragonball Z character? Why? What character did you always gravitate to when playing Street Fighter? Why? Who was your favorite Star Wars character? Why? Who is your favorite Lord of the Rings character? Why? Break it down and you'll find threads that can be used to weave your characters' personalities. Then, and this is the hardest part for me, figure out how to convey those characters' personalities in as few words as possible.[/QUOTE] Very wise. From Heyman and from you. Personally I'm obsessed with the Face/Heel divide and trying to make the Babyfaces likable and the Heels unlikeable. I do exactly what you've noted above, I think about shows, think about my favourite characters and think about why. It's getting there. A few characters are still tricky, Jeremy Stone for example isn't my kinda wrestler. Finding a likable persona in there required some work... still does. Heels are harder in diaries I think, partly because internet fans appreciate good heelsmanship, partly because... well... It's hard to get heat when attacking characters nobody cares about. I need to work on providing matches people want to see. I gave away a little too much on my free TV shows with that damned tournament idea.

[crayon]

[QUOTE=Self;604787]Very wise. From Heyman and from you. Personally I'm obsessed with the Face/Heel divide and trying to make the Babyfaces likable and the Heels unlikeable. I do exactly what you've noted above, I think about shows, think about my favourite characters and think about why. It's getting there. A few characters are still tricky, Jeremy Stone for example isn't my kinda wrestler. Finding a likable persona in there required some work... still does. Heels are harder in diaries I think, partly because internet fans appreciate good heelsmanship, partly because... well... It's hard to get heat when attacking characters nobody cares about. I need to work on providing matches people want to see. I gave away a little too much on my free TV shows with that damned tournament idea.[/QUOTE] Also that it's doubly hard to evoke genuine heat from readers through text, especially if you're trying to keep your write-ups brief. Because while it's not beyond most to be able to easily replicate a great storyline in diary format, conveying a real workers performance requires a certain level of description that would result in the majority of us never writing past the third show. That's why in writing I always tend to lean towards the comedic and outrageous -- because it's a much easier sell than serious drama.

[Self]

Yes. Comedy is much easier in diary form. As for trying to evoke real emotion while keeping things brief, my way around that is... I don't keep things brief. I'm a screenwriter. That's my style. I write the stage directions. I write the dialogue. I write the entire scene. Some people may not want to invest that much time in reading my stuff (that's cool, each to their own) and honestly it's taking 8 days to write each (weekly) episode, but that's the way I want to do things. I want to write a wrestling show.

[Ajstylesfan1978]

Thanks all for the advice about starting a diary. I have started out by using my notebook to write out my first feud. Since i plan to have 8 storylines and 2 shows a week. I think its best for me to just run 4 storylines per show. When putting feuds together do you use storylines that the game gives you or unchained storylines? Im also looking at a best of 7 series. Any tips on running a best of 7 series without killing the feud.

[Self]

I always use Unchained, and not just in my diary game. I have never tried a best of 7 series, but I'm suddenly tempted to try. The way I'd do it would be to start with two mildly over guys (D's) and make them fight every other show, using the shows inbetween on high-rated angles to boost their popularity. So round 1 would be (D pop vs D pop) rould 2 would be (D+ vs D+) round 3 would be (C- vs C-) and so on... That's the best way I can think of to make every match better, and avoid the penalty. Theoretically it might work, but in practice, who knows?

[Remianen]

[QUOTE=Ajstylesfan1978;604795]Thanks all for the advice about starting a diary. I have started out by using my notebook to write out my first feud. Since i plan to have 8 storylines and 2 shows a week. I think its best for me to just run 4 storylines per show. When putting feuds together do you use storylines that the game gives you or unchained storylines? Im also looking at a best of 7 series. Any tips on running a best of 7 series without killing the feud.[/QUOTE] Always unchained. I write out my storylines in "chained" form but I always run the storyline ingame unchained. The reason being, opportunities arise that you can't take advantage of in chained form. An example: [B]The Pearly Gates: Opportunity Knocks[/B] Synopsis: A storyline involving a champion being protected by their mentor, in gatekeeper fashion. Anyone who wants a shot at the title, has to go through the mentor first. However, things become tense when the mentor is presented with an opportunity they can't pass up. The opportunity is a chance to win said title in a triple threat match the mentor is booked into, ostensibly to 'protect' the champion. When the champion is incapacitated during the match, the mentor either seizes the opportunity and beats the champ, taking the title for themselves....or not. The storyline, as written, involves several workers who all run into the brick wall of the mentor....except one. That sets up the triple threat match. In chained form, you'd have to think of EVERY way the workers involved might interact during the storyline (are there managers involved? You'd have to sacrifice a worker spot for them) and insert that in the storyline while creating it. In unchained form, you can wing it to a certain extent and let it develop more organically within the storyline's basic framework.

[James Casey]

A month without a bump is a month too long!

[praguepride]

For diaries I challenge myself by actually writing out my storylines. Yeah, it takes a lot of time and you have to double/triple check your booking work but in the end I'm happy when I get that "storyline complete" Plus I don't feel "cheap" by just throwing my main eventers into unchained storylines.

[scorpion]

Lance Storm posted this commentary on "The Rules of Wrestling." I thought it would be relevant for diary writers. [url]http://www.stormwrestling.com/050109.html[/url]

[Derek B]

[quote=scorpion;627932]Lance Storm posted this commentary on "The Rules of Wrestling." I thought it would be relevant for diary writers. [URL]http://www.stormwrestling.com/050109.html[/URL][/quote] It's definitely a good one to read for any aspiring diary writer. Likewise, tracking down any commentary by veterans like Jim Cornette and... Jim Cornette should be top of any diary writer's to do list. They can teach so much about how wrestling is best executed in the long run, and not just for a quick buck, that there isn't a single person in pro wrestling who couldn't learn SOMETHING good from them. Needless to say, I've already emplyed many of the principals discussed by guys like Storm, Cornette, Heyman (somewhat) and many others in my own writing and booking. Even the WWE has a significant influence, though much like McMahon once did with Russo, I'm filtering out the bad/restricting plans and using the good ones. :)

[Self]

Wise words... so wise they'll probably trigger my bi-weekly freak-out about the creative direction of my Diary.

[The Masked Orange]

[QUOTE=Self;627949]Wise words... so wise they'll probably trigger my bi-weekly freak-out about the creative direction of my Diary.[/QUOTE] Ha, I'm already freaking out about mine! When writing a diary, don't feel that you have to be limited by what gimmicks they have. If somebody has a Happy-Go-Lucky gimmick, don't ruin an angle or go out of your way just to make them seem constantly happy. They are human, they have other emotions too. Actually, go out of your way if their is some big reason why they should be permanently happy. Just don't over conform to gimmicks.

[MrOnu]

Amen to Lance Storm's writings. Seriously, this guy understands the business more than a lot of people actually in charges. On other hand, too many companies are run by accoutants these days, wrestling had to fall in that trap too at some point. * disclaimer : not a knock against accoutants. It's knock against companies only looking at the financial side of things while losing the bigger picture.

[crayon]

[QUOTE=scorpion;627932]Lance Storm posted this commentary on "The Rules of Wrestling." I thought it would be relevant for diary writers. [url]http://www.stormwrestling.com/050109.html[/url][/QUOTE] It's great advice for real life, and I'd hope more bookers out there take notice, but as for writing a diary I wouldn't consider it the high word brought down from Moses himself.. For example I don't think there's any issue in treating your titles and workers or company like a joke... so long as that's your intent from the start, and you're never counting on using their credibility to sell your diary and the storylines within it—the problem that Storm is seeing is that these promotions are devaluing stock in themselves but at the same time turning around and then saying things like "hey care about why these guys want the tag titles now". Then again, I doubt Storm would enjoy a promotion run by John Awesome either, but as far as delivering an entertaining read I think it did the job quite well (even if it was very short-lived (sorry guys, mods are more time consuming than i thought)), and when it comes to text on a message board I'm probably less concerned about the big picture and "what happens" and more interested in "how interesting they can describe what happens" and keep my attention for this moment in time, given how much more effort is needed to read someone's post than sit down on a couch with a bag of chips and watch an hour or two of wrestling.

[FINisher]

A little bump, random thoughts and some tips. :) I've always had a lot easier job writing and inventing heel characters than faces. To me it's really easy to invent these brute, scary, unique heels than wholesome faces. If I would be a product my gimmicks would be subtle and not simple. Low on Mainstream, high on Cult. That's me. I still am the WEXXV/BBW promoter, the hardcore, garbage, crazy wrestling booker. In my CGC diary I think that I will change the product during the game to have more Cult and less mainstream, don't know, I've been playing with the idea as an addition into the backstory! The Sage, Aether and Ares are a little risque for CGC and the future characters I have in my mind are even risquer. I just can't wait for you to see them! :D Few simple tips: [B]1.)[/B] Watch wrestling. Watch those special moments over and over again. I do this when writing promos as I seem to struggle with those. I just have to have something in the background that I can use since my english is not as such a good level than other writers here. This one leads me to my other tip: [B]2.)[/B] Concentrate on your strenghts and know your weaknesses. Observe yourself, what works in your diary and what doesn't. If you suck in something, try concentrating on different things. I've always tried to concentrate on my strenghts which I think would be the unique gimmicks & characters, alt making, storylines and the actual gameplay and usage of roster. My weaknessess have to be the actual writing, consistency in storylines (I sometimes tend to forget what storylines I'm running) and above all those little things, the biggest has to be running big promotions. I've hardly ever ran a national size company, atleast not a sport entertainment one.