Diary Romances?

[praguepride]

They crop up every now and then, love stories get intertwined with all the other backstage action in a promotion.

 

The question is, how appropriate do you, the reader, feel about reading an avatar hooking up with a babe in the database, real or C-verse or whatever?

[Nevermore]

<p>Generally, I think it can be pretty weird... and this is coming from a guy who ran with it <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />. Still wonder whether I could have written it differently...</p><p> </p><p>

For me, it comes down to why you're doing it. In 'Worldwide, I was trying to establish myself as a vile authority figure; not just heelish but a cowardly, horrible piece of work. The reason I put myself in an on-screen relationship is because it allowed me to run with that character (being an arsehole to a chick always comes across far worse than being an arsehole to another guy). So, I screwed her about for a bit, used her for political ends and then attacked her when she said she was pregnant <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/redface.png.900245280682ef18c5d82399a93c5827.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />.</p><p> </p><p>

The point was never the relationship itself; it was how much of a dick I could make myself look. So, in essence, if you're doing it for charcter development, go for it... you're telling a story. If you're doing it because you think a certain chick is fit, I would recommend just going out on the pull <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />.</p><p> </p><p>

In the words of Dio, "Don't dream of women 'cos they'll only bring you DOOOOOWN!"</p><p> </p><p>

...I must get over this cheesy 80s rock fixation.</p><p> </p><p>

Quote The Raven</p><p>

Nevermore</p>

[Comradebot]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Nevermore" data-cite="Nevermore" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="22704" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Generally, I think it can be pretty weird... and this is coming from a guy who ran with it <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />. Still wonder whether I could have written it differently...<p> </p><p> For me, it comes down to why you're doing it. In 'Worldwide, I was trying to establish myself as a vile authority figure; not just heelish but a cowardly, horrible piece of work. The reason I put myself in an on-screen relationship is because it allowed me to run with that character (being an arsehole to a chick always comes across far worse than being an arsehole to another guy). So, <strong>I screwed her</strong> about for a bit, used her for political ends and then attacked her when she said <strong>she was pregnant </strong><img alt=":o" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/redface.png.900245280682ef18c5d82399a93c5827.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />.</p><p> </p><p> The point was never the relationship itself; it was how much of a dick I could make myself look. So, in essence, if you're doing it for charcter development, go for it... you're telling a story. If you're doing it because you think a certain chick is fit, I would recommend just going out on the pull <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />.</p><p> </p><p> In the words of Dio, "Don't dream of women 'cos they'll only bring you DOOOOOWN!"</p><p> </p><p> ...I must get over this cheesy 80s rock fixation.</p><p> </p><p> Quote The Raven</p><p> Nevermore</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> </p><p> Well, A tends to lead to B if you're not careful...</p><p> </p><p> And holy hell, Nevermore is still alive!</p>

[Eisen-verse]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Nevermore" data-cite="Nevermore" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="22704" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Generally, I think it can be pretty weird... and this is coming from a guy who ran with it <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />. Still wonder whether I could have written it differently...<p> </p><p> For me, it comes down to why you're doing it. In 'Worldwide, I was trying to establish myself as a vile authority figure; not just heelish but a cowardly, horrible piece of work. The reason I put myself in an on-screen relationship is because it allowed me to run with that character (being an arsehole to a chick always comes across far worse than being an arsehole to another guy). So, I screwed her about for a bit, used her for political ends and then attacked her when she said she was pregnant <img alt=":o" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/redface.png.900245280682ef18c5d82399a93c5827.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />.</p><p> </p><p> The point was never the relationship itself; it was how much of a dick I could make myself look. So, in essence, if you're doing it for charcter development, go for it... you're telling a story. If you're doing it because you think a certain chick is fit, I would recommend just going out on the pull <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />.</p><p> </p><p> In the words of Dio, "Don't dream of women 'cos they'll only bring you DOOOOOWN!"</p><p> </p><p> ...I must get over this cheesy 80s rock fixation.</p><p> </p><p> Quote The Raven</p><p> Nevermore</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree with Nevermore. If you're doing so to set up a storyline, character development, etc... Then I say it's a great idea to give a sense of more of a personal weight in the end. Like in my X-WA Diary, Jennifer Heat was brought in not because I really want to see her and Vicente Marquez (Champaigne Lover - Real relationship in the game) together in the ring... Walking around and showing off their relationship to others. She was brought in solely to aide in the Griffith/Marquez feud. </p><p> </p><p> Overall, a relationship between two characters can make for some strong moments later on in feuds as you can always use the girlfriend (or boyfriend for that matter) as a pawn in storylines.</p>

[Self]

<p>Love is a fantastic dramatic device.</p><p> </p><p>

I pretty much agree with Nevermore. It's a fine heel device, in that I'll automatically dislike anyone who does it. It MIGHT work for a babyface User Character, but the story, the characterizations, the pay-off, would have to be really good.</p>

[Derek B]

Romance is always interesting as a means of telling a story, but too often in diaries (and real life ) it ends up being rushed and feels very forced. As with anything in diaries, if it's badly done it can be really bad, especially if a user character is involved. But if it's done well it can lead to some of the strongest connections to characters you can get, which is always awesome.

[Wallbanger]

<p>PP, I suspect you already know my take on romance as a diary storytelling device. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p>

Like any other plot device, it's more the execution of the idea than the idea itself. That being said, even if it's well written there will still be those for whom Hot Avatar Action is not their cup of tea. And that's OK, as long as you're enjoying writing it! Sure it helps to get a few props along the way, but if using a particular plot device or trope helps you tell the story you want to tell, go for it. Generations was entirely driven by the avatar relationship, even more so than the booking. Did my avatar turn into a Mary Sue? Yeah, kind of -- I won't deny that. But I enjoyed writing that story, and that's what mattered to me. Generations 08 fell flat not because I wasn't enjoying the game, but more because I really didn't have a story to tell, and the ideas I was coming up with felt derivative and forced.</p>

[Phantom Stranger]

<p>I think it's hard to class this all as one group. On t'one hand, you've got something like David Mack and Fern Hathaway becoming almost a running gag in his NYCW diary behind the scenes. (Fern gets some airtime so I'm not on the couch, etc) or like my own ROF diary where the game one day told me my avatar was dating Cherry Bomb. (No complaints, mind...)</p><p> </p><p>

On the other hand, you've got things like James Casey's relationship with Katie Cameron, which ties more closely into the writeups, or Wallbanger's JeriLynn Stone and Kirk Heidenreich, which justified Kirk's presence and drove behind-the-scenes story (we still miss JL, 'banger). Either one of these hands might, in a smark-friendly promotion (or even not) tie that romance into a storyline like any other romance might be considered fair game.</p><p> </p><p>

And then you've got the avatar out in the open, engaged in a kayfabe relationship, which is the third hand of our bizarre mutant debatemonster. Like Nevermore, who used him to help build his avatar for a while before eliminating Charlie from sight.</p><p> </p><p>

And now I have to sprout a fourth arm on this disturbing critter; avatar relationships edited into game just to be dating a hot chick/piece of manflesh. These... Well, I've no problem with 'em, but if you're not using them for story, son, d'we need to hear about it?</p>

[praguepride]

<p>I guess I should have specified clearer:</p><p> </p><p>

Off-screen relationships!</p><p> </p><p>

On-screen kayfabe is perfectly fine as that's a staple of wrestling drama. I meant the backstage "Hey, I'm taking Emma Chase back to my place after the show" kind of stuff.</p><p> </p><p>

Normally I'm turned off by off-screen avatar relationships. Unless someone is playing true to the game ("wtf? My guy's dating Gorgon? Wonder who's wearing the pants in THAT relationshisp <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" />) Usually it's the same set of "gorgeous" people that just happen to break up with their boyfriends to fall in love with the avatar. As derek_b says they tend to get a little forced.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

I guess the question arises for a self-serving interest though. The diary I'm running I "restarted" several times to really nail things down and one of those "alternate universes" saw a relationship pop up between the user avatar and one of the employees. This did not happen in the current iteration but I'm just curious if I should even bother bringing it up or just keeping my guy stag. </p><p> </p><p>

@Wallbanger: Yours has been the only relationship diary that I didn't just tolerate, but thoroughly enjoyed mainly because it was such a focal point and was given the proper attention and dedicatio that any focal point deserves. It felt like an actual romance then a Marty Sue "I'm dating a hot supermodel in my fantasy world" </p><p> </p><p>

And the last question would be, what about a failed romance? How would you feel about a relationship that was "more real" in the sense that it isn't a happy-go-lucky "we both love each other" kind of affair and is tragic and poisonous and disasterous and awkward, punctuated by a few happy times.</p><p> </p><p>

Or would that just make things too depressing to read?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>

edit: Whoops, this was meant to be a poll <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/frown.png.e6b571745a30fe6a6f2e918994141a47.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[foolinc]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Wallbanger" data-cite="Wallbanger" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="22704" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>PP, I suspect you already know my take on romance as a diary storytelling device. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png"><p> </p><p> Like any other plot device, it's more the execution of the idea than the idea itself. That being said, even if it's well written there will still be those for whom Hot Avatar Action � is not their cup of tea. And that's OK, as long as you're enjoying writing it! Sure it helps to get a few props along the way, but if using a particular plot device or trope helps you tell the story you want to tell, go for it. Generations was entirely driven by the avatar relationship, even more so than the booking. Did my avatar turn into a Mary Sue? Yeah, kind of -- I won't deny that. But I enjoyed writing that story, and that's what mattered to me. Generations 08 fell flat not because I wasn't enjoying the game, but more because I really didn't have a story to tell, and the ideas I was coming up with felt derivative and forced.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> While I would say that your girl was a bit of a Mary Sue, it fit. Why? The whole Stone family is pretty much a family of Mary Sues (with the exception of the family's black sheep, Ed Stone)! Plus you never went off the deep end and put stuff in the way of the relationship so it wasn't all sunshine and gumdrops.</p>

[Bigpapa42]

It really depends. Under most situations, I wouldn't prefer to see it as a major part of the diary, but that could work very well in the right circumstance. The way I see it, if a diary uses some backstage sequences to tell some backstory and person stuff of the user character, then having a bit of relationship stuff in there works if you are dealing with other personal stuff. I find James Casey's works very well in this way. Plus, we know that in the wrestling business, workers dating other workers is relatively common. If a diary has no personal backstage stuff, suddenly throwing in a relationship story in feels forced.

[praguepride]

<p>Fair enough. I guess my final general question, as stated above, is how people feel about "tragic" or poisonous relationships?</p><p> </p><p>

Again reality has shown that many relationships between workers ends poorly. Divorce rates are high etc. But would you really want to read about a relationship that doesn't end in sunshine and roses for everyone involved?</p>

[Phantom Stranger]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="praguepride" data-cite="praguepride" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="22704" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Fair enough. I guess my final general question, as stated above, is how people feel about "tragic" or poisonous relationships?<p> </p><p> Again reality has shown that many relationships between workers ends poorly. Divorce rates are high etc. But would you really want to read about a relationship that doesn't end in sunshine and roses for everyone involved?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> *glances across at DVD shelf*</p><p> </p><p> Casino, Dark Knight, Romeo + Juliet, Casablanca, Maltese Falcon, Big Trouble In Little China...</p><p> </p><p> Nah, can't see why anyone would dig a story where they don't end up together.</p>

[Self]

<p>I'd expect I'd get a smug sense of self-satisfaction from hearing that your fairytale romance with Cherry Bomb went south when she dumped your ass.</p><p> </p><p>

I'm not really a fan of "shoot" backstage information, but if you worked the break-up into your booking. Like you're really bitter at her for dumping you so you make her lose a lot, or you're pushing her because you feel bad for ditching her... Could be interesting.</p><p> </p><p>

Or you could start randomly jobbing out guys with good Sex Appeal because you think they're after your girl.</p>

[James Casey]

<p>I mainly put mine in for two reasons: Delaying the Rip/Casey feud somewhat with backstage segments that had a different focus, and curiosity over whether anyone would object.</p><p> </p><p>

Up to the point where the characters got together (and for some time after) it would have been perfectly possible for me to edit Katie back together with Jacob and end our relationship. There was no real point to it, beyond me being curious if I could write a semi-believable romance, and as noted, delaying matters that were proceeding elsewhere.</p><p> </p><p>

If the story's developed logically, then I see no problem with it. In my case, it was sparked by my bringing Jett in to work for MAW to pair with Katie, and his then going off to work in Japan. If you were booking SWF, you could have Emma Chase and Sammy Bach having troubles for the same reason - but not Jessie and Angry Gilmore.</p><p> </p><p>

If it's logical/sensible/consistent, I don't have a problem with a lot of things a writer may want to do...</p>

[praguepride]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Phantom Stranger" data-cite="Phantom Stranger" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="22704" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> Casino, Dark Knight, Romeo + Juliet, Casablanca, Maltese Falcon, <strong>Big Trouble In Little China...</strong></p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The moment I knew I was fully in love was when I was able to get my fiancee to watch Big Trouble in Little China for our anniversary instead of some chick-flick romantic comedy <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Phantom Stranger]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Self" data-cite="Self" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="22704" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'd expect I'd get a smug sense of self-satisfaction from hearing that your fairytale romance with Cherry Bomb went south when she dumped your ass.<p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> She got pissed off with me when I stopped booking her on account of it being a wrestling-oriented company and her retiring. Strangely, didn't dump me but wouldn't re-up.</p><p> </p><p> I assume I was heavily in the doghouse.</p>