The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Mootinie]

<p>Here's an updated list of Reigns' ****+ matches:</p><p>

</p><ul><li>vs. Daniel Bryan (Fastlane 2015)<br /></li><li>vs. Lesnar vs. Rollins (WrestleMania XXXI)<br /></li><li>vs. Big Show (Extreme Rules 2015)<br /></li><li>w/ Jericho & Ambrose vs. Wyatt Family (Night Of Champions 2015)<br /></li><li>vs. Del Rio vs. Ziggler vs. Owens (Monday Night Raw 2015)<br /></li><li>vs. Cesaro (Monday Night Raw 2015)<br /></li><li>vs. Sheamus (Extreme Rules 2015)<br /></li><li>vs. Ambrose vs. Lesnar (Fastlane 2016)<br /></li><li>vs. Styles (Extreme Rules 2016)<br /></li></ul><p></p>

[The_CoC]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Here's an updated list of Reigns' ****+ matches:<p> </p><ul><li>vs. Daniel Bryan (Fastlane 2015)<br /></li><li>vs. Lesnar vs. Rollins (WrestleMania XXXI)<br /></li><li>vs. Big Show (Extreme Rules 2015)<br /></li><li>w/ Jericho & Ambrose vs. Wyatt Family (Night Of Champions 2015)<br /></li><li>vs. Del Rio vs. Ziggler vs. Owens (Monday Night Raw 2015)<br /></li><li>vs. Cesaro (Monday Night Raw 2015)<br /></li><li>vs. Sheamus (Extreme Rules 2015)<br /></li><li>vs. Ambrose vs. Lesnar (Fastlane 2016)<br /></li><li>vs. Styles (Extreme Rules 2016)<br /></li></ul><p></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Nah man Reigns is a horrible worker blah blah blah...</p><p> </p><p> fantastic match but the storyline so far has been a bit disappointing.</p>

[Ben_Ditch05]

In my mind, this was one of WWE's better shows this year. They had a great match, a damn near 5 star match, yet they also had a 0 star match. Reigns has proven again why, despite people's opinions that were formed a year or two ago when he was pretty raw, no pun intended, that he is one of the better workers in WWE right now. On the other hand, I'm feeling really sad for Jericho. 2016 has just been so bad for him in terms of match quality. Both the matches vs Dean weren't good enough for a PPV... this last one was definitely not even good enough for Raw. I loved the Fatal 4 Way, I felt everybody played their role in it perfectly, most notably The Miz. Loved Sami kicking KO's head off within the first few seconds, all they needed to do to remind people, "we hate each other." All in All, it was a really good card that was brought down by that terrible Asylum match.

 

My Ratings

Club vs Usos, didn't see it all, been told around 2.5

Rusev vs Kalisto 2.75

Vaudevillains vs New Day 2.5

KO vs Cesaro vs Sami vs Miz 4.25

Jericho vs Ambrose 0

Neidhart vs Flair 2

Styles vs Reigns 4.75

[milamber]

Extreme Rules:

 

The Usos vs The Club - Solid tornado tag. Reminded me of the early Shield matches but not as good. Gun & Gallows finally got the win when it mattered.

Rusev vs Kalisto - Solid match. The Accolade looked wicked. I like Kalisto but Rusev is a more interesting champ.

New Day vs Vaudevillians - Solid match. Vaudevillians would have made decent transitional champs to get the titles on Enzo & Cass. They better not get the Ascension treatment now.

IC Championship - MOTY Contender and one of the best Fatal Fourway matches I've ever seen. All 4 men worked their asses off. Miz deserves a push for his pre-show promo alone.

Jericho vs Ambrose - OK match. It started like a comedy, dragged in the middle then finally got extreme near the end. At least they used all the weapons.

Natalya vs Charlotte - OK match. It was fine until the tainted finish. Pairing Dana with Charlotte might help Dana because of her inexperience but it just makes Charlotte the female version of Authority Rollins, needing an entourage to help her win.

AJ vs Reigns - Great match. I knew Reigns would retain and I don't mind him winning like this. Rollins!!!

 

Verdict: Mostly average PPV with 2 outstanding matches and a surprise cameo.

[milamber]

Here's an updated list of Reigns' ****+ matches:

• vs. Daniel Bryan (Fastlane 2015)
  
• vs. Lesnar vs. Rollins (WrestleMania XXXI)
  
• vs. Big Show (Extreme Rules 2015)
  
• w/ Jericho & Ambrose vs. Wyatt Family (Night Of Champions 2015)
  
• vs. Del Rio vs. Ziggler vs. Owens (Monday Night Raw 2015)
  
• vs. Cesaro (Monday Night Raw 2015)
  
• vs. Sheamus (Extreme Rules 2015)
  
• vs. Ambrose vs. Lesnar (Fastlane 2016)
  
• vs. Styles (Extreme Rules 2016)
  

 

Reigns might not be to everyone's taste but just like Cena, Reigns puts on great matches against talented opponents.

 

I can't even pretend to care about Roman Reigns. He gets beat up, takes 10 chair shots, and wins. It's not even fun to boo him anymore. It's like they don't even care,they're doing what they want and patting themselves on the back, while the crowd is sending a clear message. I'm not going to cancel my network subscription, I like all of the stuff they have. I'm just going to start turning the shows off before the main event. I feel defeated and like I want to give up. And that really blows seeing as how I am a huge pro wrestling fan.

 

There were dual chants during the match after Reigns started hitting some big moves. He's moving merch. He gets cheered at some house shows according to fan reports I've read. Not as clear as some people like to make out.

 

I admit I did find this funny, though:

 

[RKOwnage]

The reason why I absolutely hated the main event is pretty simple. Reigns takes the Boot of Doom, two Styles Clashes (one onto a chair), and about 20 chair shots, but Styles gets (weakly) Speared out of the air and that's it.

 

Usos get destroyed by Gallows and Anderson along the outside and are back in 2 minutes, but both of those guys get taken out for 10 minutes with a Superman Punch apiece. Reigns being in God mode just takes me completely out of the match.

[jwt13]

The reason why I absolutely hated the main event is pretty simple. Reigns takes the Boot of Doom, two Styles Clashes (one onto a chair), and about 20 chair shots, but Styles gets (weakly) Speared out of the air and that's it.

 

Usos get destroyed by Gallows and Anderson along the outside and are back in 2 minutes, but both of those guys get taken out for 10 minutes with a Superman Punch apiece. Reigns being in God mode just takes me completely out of the match.

 

To be fair Styles had been hit with 2 or 3 spears, put through 2 announce tables, and had taken a beaten from 3 guys. Roman kicked out of one Styles clash clean, he kicked out of the second one because of the Uso interference. I also wouldn't call the spear weak, although the first one on the outside was better it still looked good.

 

I'm currently watching 98 Raws on the Network and people act like Steve Austin wasn't booked like this. The guy would take so much shit and win any way. He didn't win as much as Roman maybe, but I can't remember seeing him get beaten clean one time yet.

[Ben_Ditch05]

The reason why I absolutely hated the main event is pretty simple. Reigns takes the Boot of Doom, two Styles Clashes (one onto a chair), and about 20 chair shots, but Styles gets (weakly) Speared out of the air and that's it.

 

Usos get destroyed by Gallows and Anderson along the outside and are back in 2 minutes, but both of those guys get taken out for 10 minutes with a Superman Punch apiece. Reigns being in God mode just takes me completely out of the match.

 

You're forgetting Styles getting speared outside of the ring, taking a pretty nasty swing into an LED board and the barricade, being put through 2 tables, taking a few Superman punches. Sure Reigns took a lot of punishment, but so did Styles.

[RKOwnage]

To be fair Styles had been hit with 2 or 3 spears, put through 2 announce tables, and had taken a beaten from 3 guys. Roman kicked out of one Styles clash clean, he kicked out of the second one because of the Uso interference. I also wouldn't call the spear weak, although the first one on the outside was better it still looked good.

 

I'm currently watching 98 Raws on the Network and people act like Steve Austin wasn't booked like this. The guy would take so much shit and win any way. He didn't win as much as Roman maybe, but I can't remember seeing him get beaten clean one time yet.

 

You're forgetting Styles getting speared outside of the ring, taking a pretty nasty swing into an LED board and the barricade, being put through 2 tables, taking a few Superman punches. Sure Reigns took a lot of punishment, but so did Styles.

 

Sure, Styles took some beating, but he was walking around and acting fine for quite a few minutes beating the hell out of Reigns. So it's either that Styles can't sell or that Reigns was in God mode...and I think we know which is the answer.

 

The difference between Austin and Reigns is that Austin was captivating and Reigns is forced. He was kept strong because he was organically over with the crowd and WWE wanted to perpetuate that. Whether you can say Reigns is getting mixed chants and getting cheered at house shows or not, he's not organically over as a mega babyface (let's be real - he's only a 'tweener' because the fans have utterly rejected him as a mega face). Ambrose, Cesaro, Lesnar, Rollins, Owens, Zayn - these guys are organically over.

 

Reigns doing this would be fine if people wanted him to do this. For the longest time, I was pro-Reigns, but it's just been unbearable during this feud for some reason. I'm not even a Styles/Club fan, so I'm not sure why it's happening now for me.

 

I understand that my opinion is not going to change anything. Also, financially, I completely understand why Reigns is at the top. It doesn't mean that I must agree with it creatively. He, and by extension, the Usos, have made the Club look like garbage. Also to be clear, I did not at all expect Styles to win. Nor would I have booked it that way. I just disagreed with the way Reigns won.

[Jaysin]

I just felt the finish was anti climatic. They did all these cool spots and had this amazing match, and then it's just over.

[smurphy1014]

<a href="http://www.wwe.com/article/adam-rose-released" rel="external nofollow">http://www.wwe.com/article/adam-rose-released</a>

[The Final Countdown]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="smurphy1014" data-cite="smurphy1014" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><a href="http://www.wwe.com/article/adam-rose-released" rel="external nofollow">http://www.wwe.com/article/adam-rose-released</a></div></blockquote><p> Least shocking headline ever.</p>

[Kitarzu]

SOS = Usual Ancient Rubbish

[Findlay]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Reigns might not be to everyone's taste but just like Cena, Reigns puts on great matches against talented opponents.<p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> There were dual chants during the match after Reigns started hitting some big moves. He's moving merch. He gets cheered at some house shows according to fan reports I've read. Not as clear as some people like to make out.</p><p> </p><p> I admit I did find this funny, though:</p><p> </p><p> <img alt="CjG5CNbXAAES4-g.jpg" data-src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/CjG5CNbXAAES4-g.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I won't knock his ability. He is a talented athlete, I take nothing away from him. His booking has just been so poor, it's like they don't even care. If I'm running a world wide company, and I have a guy who is supposed to be the beloved face of company and 70% of my audience, if not more, hates him, I haven't done my job. It's on the WWE booking, not Roman. I simply have no desire to watch him, it's not even fun to watch from a train-wreck perspective anymore.</p>

[jwt13]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Findlay" data-cite="Findlay" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I won't knock his ability. He is a talented athlete, I take nothing away from him. His booking has just been so poor, it's like they don't even care. If I'm running a world wide company, and I have a guy who is supposed to be the beloved face of company and 70% of my audience, if not more, hates him, I haven't done my job. It's on the WWE booking, not Roman. I simply have no desire to watch him, it's not even fun to watch from a train-wreck perspective anymore.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I like his current state of being the tweener, I don't even mind JBL saying "You can love him or hate him, you still have an load opinion which makes him a star." (Paraphrasing of course) Because in a way it's the truth if no one cared about Roman, he wouldn't get the reaction he does either way. His booking since Mania has been fine, he's been the more heelish bad ass Roman, and that is great. WWE knows he's not the Super face that's why his main two feuds since Mania have been with Super over face AJ, and Super over returning Seth Rollins (They knew he would be a face as soon as he returned).</p>

[RKOwnage]

I like his current state of being the tweener, I don't even mind JBL saying "You can love him or hate him, you still have an load opinion which makes him a star." (Paraphrasing of course) Because in a way it's the truth if no one cared about Roman, he wouldn't get the reaction he does either way. His booking since Mania has been fine, he's been the more heelish bad ass Roman, and that is great. WWE knows he's not the Super face that's why his main two feuds since Mania have been with Super over face AJ, and Super over returning Seth Rollins (They knew he would be a face as soon as he returned).

 

I wouldn't say people care about him - the boos are X-Pac heat (directed toward Vince and the machine that's shoving him down our throats mostly; I'm pretty sure most people recognize that Reigns himself does have quite a bit of value to the company). Those who cheer him obviously care about him, but I'd say that most of his negative reaction can be attributed to the creative team rather than him being a good heel/tweener/whatever.

 

As an aside, I'm almost positive Rollins will turn heel either tonight or before they end up in a match. It's just how they roll.

[Russelrules44]

<p><a href="http://whatculture.com/wwe/ryback-teasing-move-to-tna" rel="external nofollow">http://whatculture.com/wwe/ryback-teasing-move-to-tna</a></p><p> </p><p>

Ryback. Are you trying to get yourself fired?</p>

[mrwhippy]

<p>People are just bashing Reigns for the sake of it now. Since 'Mania his booking has been spot on. They've found the niche that suits all fans and all his segments are lights out (as a result of the booking).</p><p> </p><p>

I've got no issue with how they book him in matches at the moment. They're not burying the other guy while they're doing it and it's standard practice to have someone booked virtually unbeatable at the top of the company. And it's not like they've got anyone else they can position there at the moment.</p><p> </p><p>

Yes we can moan about them not creating more stars and yes we can moan about how they've got Reigns into this position to begin with but the last couple of months is some of the best TV in a long, long time. Reigns is a warranted main eventer in my eyes.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Russelrules44" data-cite="Russelrules44" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><a href="http://whatculture.com/wwe/ryback-teasing-move-to-tna" rel="external nofollow">http://whatculture.com/wwe/ryback-teasing-move-to-tna</a><p> </p><p> Ryback. Are you trying to get yourself fired?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He's been sent home after contract negotiations with Vince failed so yeah pretty much</p>

[milamber]

Not sure who botched worse, the sign writer or Apollo Crews. Solid Raw otherwise.

 

[K-Nection]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="mrwhippy" data-cite="mrwhippy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>People are just bashing Reigns for the sake of it now. Since 'Mania his booking has been spot on. They've found the niche that suits all fans and all his segments are lights out (as a result of the booking).<p> </p><p> I've got no issue with how they book him in matches at the moment. They're not burying the other guy while they're doing it and it's standard practice to have someone booked virtually unbeatable at the top of the company. And it's not like they've got anyone else they can position there at the moment.</p><p> </p><p> Yes we can moan about them not creating more stars and yes we can moan about how they've got Reigns into this position to begin with but the last couple of months is some of the best TV in a long, long time. Reigns is a warranted main eventer in my eyes.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Spot on?....Nah if it was spot on they would have turned him heel because they have no strong heels besides Kevin Owens (The Miz has come a long way back from bad booking but I wouldn't call him strong). You could argue that Seth is now heel but going against Reigns the man will be cheered. The only way with keeping Seth heel makes sense if they are going to put the belt back on him. I really doubt they will do that and it will just leave Seth pretty dead in the water to feud with Dolph Ziggler in the land of wasted booking opportunities. </p><p> </p><p> If Seth is not the man to take the belt off him than who is going to be? A heel John Cena....please.</p><p> </p><p> Honestly what did not turning Roman do for the face Usos? It gave them heat with the crowd by association. That feud didn't elevate them in the slightest because now it just makes them a badly booked face team. </p><p> </p><p> I kinda threw up a question mark on AJ losing clean to Kevin Owens because they just made their best merch seller fall on his face two nights in a row. It seems the only person WWE has an interest in protecting is Roman and they are still not doing a good job at it.</p>

[RKOwnage]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="K-Nection" data-cite="K-Nection" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I kinda threw up a question mark on AJ losing clean to Kevin Owens because they just made their best merch seller fall on his face two nights in a row. It seems the only person WWE has an interest in protecting is Roman and they are still not doing a good job at it.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Honestly, KO needed that win more than AJ did. He gets a clean RAW win over a semi-established main eventer. Plus, it's clearly leading to an AJ vs. The Club storyline where he has to prove he can win without them/beat them. I thought it was good storytelling and helped establish KO a bit more. He's capable of beating main eventers - about a year ago he pinned Cena in his first match. I don't think it did much to hurt AJ - even the best go into a rut sometimes, in kayfabe. I thought it was good booking.</p>

[crownsy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RKOwnage" data-cite="RKOwnage" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Honestly, KO needed that win more than AJ did. He gets a clean RAW win over a semi-established main eventer. Plus, it's clearly leading to an AJ vs. The Club storyline where he has to prove he can win without them/beat them. I thought it was good storytelling and helped establish KO a bit more. He's capable of beating main eventers - about a year ago he pinned Cena in his first match. I don't think it did much to hurt AJ - even the best go into a rut sometimes, in kayfabe. I thought it was good booking.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I was fine on the booking too, for the same reasons. I assume AJ vs. The Club (either with Rollins or Balor as the leader) is coming, and this is the first part of it. </p><p> </p><p> Or, knowing WWE, Shane will come out on Smackdown and say "by golly gee, it's a new era around here, and I decided AJ should have one....last....shot to make the money in the bank, by beating...DEL RIO!" </p><p> </p><p> and they will just backdoor AJ in somehow. That seems to be the Shane's character's move. put fan favorites in matches they kinda already lost, and then have them make it with the second chance.</p>

[RKOwnage]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="crownsy" data-cite="crownsy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That seems to be the Shane's character's move. put fan favorites in matches they kinda already lost, and then have them make it with the second chance.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> To be fair, that's EXACTLY how he got to be in his position, minus earning the second chance <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[K-Nection]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="RKOwnage" data-cite="RKOwnage" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Honestly, KO needed that win more than AJ did. He gets a clean RAW win over a semi-established main eventer. Plus, it's clearly leading to an AJ vs. The Club storyline where he has to prove he can win without them/beat them. I thought it was good storytelling and helped establish KO a bit more. He's capable of beating main eventers - about a year ago he pinned Cena in his first match. I don't think it did much to hurt AJ - even the best go into a rut sometimes, in kayfabe. I thought it was good booking.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you think about it that was a tragic loss. AJ couldn't get the job done as number one contender and then got beat severely clean by a guy who couldn't win the IC Belt. Kevin Owens is the top established heel in the company right now but he hasn't been booked like that. He has been kept very far away from the WWE title. All that loss did was prove "The Club" right that AJ can't win a match by himself.</p><p> </p><p> You pretty much logically killed off AJ Styles because he is feuding with the guys that jobbed to the Usos for a month straight before finally getting a win at Extreme Rules. Roman is the only person that ends up protected and it's a guy that 80% of the fans are sick of.</p>