The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Russelrules44]

<p>One thing I've learned about Vince McMahon during my years watching wrestling is that he really loves keeping kay-fabe alive. He wants heels to be boo'ed and faces to be cheered. No if's, ands or buts. Argue all you want that the times are changing and that kayfabe is dead. It's McMahon's word and will be his word until he either resigns (which probably won't happen for a while) or dies (which will definitely not happen for at least another ten years)</p><p> </p><p>

Even if he's out of touch, even if he's got a few screws loose. We might be stuck with him for a while. And unless if something drastic happens, that's not changing anytime soon. And that's the sad reality of Vince McMahon.</p>

[milamber]

Vince is usually smarter at working the crowds, though. They should have just had Brock lapping up the hometown hero chants then have Heyman launch into a tirade against Goldberg about how no one will be cheering or give a stuff about Goldberg once his client has destroyed him. 5 minutes and done.

[jjohns44]

Funny observation about Kayfabe from.last night, I was watching Jericho hesitating while talking to Braun Stroman on RAW about getting the list back and I'm like "oh come on Chris, you pushed Brock up against a wall because you thought he really busted up Randy but Braun is just too much for you?"

[Russelrules44]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Vince is usually smarter at working the crowds, though. They should have just had Brock lapping up the hometown hero chants then have Heyman launch into a tirade against Goldberg about how no one will be cheering or give a stuff about Goldberg once his client has destroyed him. 5 minutes and done.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm guessing Vince either had a bad day or was annoyed with how RAW was going.</p><p> </p><p> And seeing what people thought of last night's RAW, I'd imagine he'd had every right be pretty annoyed...</p><p> </p><p> On second thought, yeah, he must have had a bad day.</p>

[milamber]

<p>Another strong Smackdown. Bliss & Ellsworth were my MVPs.</p><p> </p><p>

Interesting stats for the week:</p><p> </p><p>

Raw total televised content: 2h 19m 02s</p><p>

Raw televised wrestling time: 34m 27s (6 matches)</p><p>

Raw wrestling time percentage: 24.8%</p><p> </p><p>

SmackDown Live total televised content: 1h 21m 18s</p><p>

SmackDown Live televised wrestling time: 35m 01s (5 matches)</p><p>

SmackDown Live wrestling time percentage: 43.1%</p><p> </p><p>

And yet Smackdown still advanced their stories better than Raw.</p>

[crownsy]

<p>Bliss is sneaky becoming one of the best heel promo's in the company, regardless of gender. </p><p> </p><p>

And dat booty. <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/cool.png.f00d2562b2c1d873a09323753efdb041.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Russelrules44]

<p>Sweet jesus...</p><p> </p><p>

Sasha Banks just became my no. 1 favorite women wrestler on the roster after today.</p><p> </p><p>

Just...amazing.</p>

[Greylocke]

Lord......I know they're eager to prove that OUR WOMEN ARE AS GOOD AS THE MEN, but seriously, they need to tell Charlotte and Sasha to stop going for those big spots that they're not certain they can pull off.

 

I swear, every single title match between them has had at least one horrible botched spot that makes me cringe and wonder if one of them is going to get crippled for life. When they're not doing those the wrestling was actually pretty good, but the awkward spots really ruined the match for me.

 

In TEW terms, they feel like workers with good Performance stats except for Safety.....

[milamber]

HIAC Review:

 

Rusev vs Reigns - Good match. I like the leaping spear. Rusev is still underrated. They should turn him face and put him against Owens.

Bayley vs Dana - Solid match but Bayley needs a better finisher. Dana's best showing since NXT.

Enzo & Cass vs The Club - OK match. The Club needed the win.

Owens vs Rollins - Great match.

Kendrick vs Perkins - Solid match. Smart choice putting the belt on Kendrick. Shame the crowd popped more for the random tag match on the pre-show.

New Day vs Sheamus & Cesaro - Solid match but New Day have been champs for too long.

Charlotte vs Sasha - Great match but I'm sad we didn't get a moonsault and shocked that Charlotte won. The only reason I can think of is the lack of depth in the women's division.

 

Verdict: Overall a good PPV. The Cell matches delivered and the other matches were decent. Considering the recent state of Raw I don't think they could have done much better.

[K-Nection]

Haven't tuned into RAW in a while the first thing I see is Goldberg.....some cruiserweights and some odd match stipulations. Apparently WWE is dressing up as WCW this Halloween!

[Blackman]

<p>It was a fine PPV I guess. Loved the Y2J-Mick interaction and his 'inclusion' in the match, and it was nice to see the women main event and delivering a great match. The low point was that ridiculous bandage thing during the cruiserweight match. The moment where Sasha started climbing the cage, willingly dropping down to be (obviously) powerbombed also made no sense and looked stupid.</p><p> </p><p>

But how about that RAW Talk huh? They're surfing on the succes of Smacktalk, but the Y2J/KO passage was quite awesome.</p>

[Anggur Merah]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>But how about that RAW Talk huh? They're surfing on the succes of Smacktalk, but the Y2J/KO passage was quite awesome.</div></blockquote><p> Looks like the talents are still trying to get used to segments like that. KO and Y2J were gold, though. Rene being awesome as Rene, and Booker T looks quite good for RAW Talk. Not sure about Lawler and Lita there.</p>

[Blackman]

Imo Lawler looked lost. He was struggling to make coherent sentences. I liked his gig back in the day, and I fail to think of anything other 'legendary' thing to let him do, but he shouldn't get any screen time anymore. Bt indeed: Booker T surprised the heck out of me. Very entertaining. Lita wasn't bad at all.

[K-Nection]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Imo Lawler looked lost. He was struggling to make coherent sentences. I liked his gig back in the day, and I fail to think of anything other 'legendary' thing to let him do, but he shouldn't get any screen time anymore. Bt indeed: Booker T surprised the heck out of me. Very entertaining. Lita wasn't bad at all.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Lawler is one of those guys that is awesome when he is on his game! Old age is not doing him any favors. At this point in life he might need a backstage role as opposed to an on screen role. He might serve as a great promo coach at the performance center or even a road agent rather than an onscreen figure.</p>

[kingjames]

Looks like the talents are still trying to get used to segments like that. KO and Y2J were gold, though. Rene being awesome as Rene, and Booker T looks quite good for RAW Talk. Not sure about Lawler and Lita there.

 

Given Y2J is old enough to have been involved in the dying days of the territory era, and KO came up through the indies cutting live promos, I'm not surprised they excelled in that live, less scripted environment.

 

I never really thought of Lita as a great promo. Lots of in-ring talent, but I never really felt like she was more than just adequate on the stick. Not surprised she seemed to have a little trouble keeping up.

[K-Nection]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="kingjames" data-cite="kingjames" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> I never really thought of Lita as a great promo. Lots of in-ring talent, but I never really felt like she was more than just adequate on the stick. Not surprised she seemed to have a little trouble keeping up.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I remember the first WWE house show I ever went to it was when John Cena and Edge was feuding. Somebody was dumb enough to hand Lita the microphone and it went over like a turd in a punch bowl. And I remember how she ended it...."I can see you John Cena! I CAN SEE YOU!" ugh it was one of the worst promos on any level and I'm including backyard wrestling that I ever heard.</p><p> </p><p> That woman needs a script or even a teleprompter because she can't shoot from the hip with words at all.</p>

[jjohns44]

Smackdown still looking great! Raw wasnt bad watching on HULU made it better than sitting through 3 hours of it. But Smackdown has me pumped for a lot of the feuds. Daniel Bryan and Miz for one. I cant choose between Styles and Ambrose they are both just awesome in their roles.

[milamber]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="jjohns44" data-cite="jjohns44" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Smackdown still looking great! Raw wasnt bad watching on HULU made it better than sitting through 3 hours of it. But Smackdown has me pumped for a lot of the feuds. Daniel Bryan and Miz for one. I cant choose between Styles and Ambrose they are both just awesome in their roles.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I thought the quality of shows was closer this week but the good Smackdown main event and Talking Smack pushed it over the line for me.</p><p> </p><p> Speaking of Talking Smack, it's timeslot is being pushed back for the new 205 Live Cruiserweight show. The current Smackdown format is working great so it's a risk to mess with it. The Cruiserweights do need their own show the way they're booked on Raw outside of the title feud. But it's taping after Main Event and Smackdown so half the crowd would probably have left.</p>

[Derek B]

Just back from the Raw TV taping in Glasgow tonight. I don't want to spoiler anything so won't post anything spoiler-y until after the show has aired but it was a lot of fun. I'm sure some things will be edited a bit as the crowd was pretty smarky (though at least wasn't swear-y, so nice for a Scottish crowd). Roman Reigns boo-ed out of the building as you would expect, and it was between Enzo/Cass and Bayley for babyface crowd noise for the night. New Day also rock.

[moon_lit_tears]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Derek B" data-cite="Derek B" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just back from the Raw TV taping in Glasgow tonight. I don't want to spoiler anything so won't post anything spoiler-y until after the show has aired but it was a lot of fun. I'm sure some things will be edited a bit as the crowd was pretty smarky (though at least wasn't swear-y, so nice for a Scottish crowd). Roman Reigns boo-ed out of the building as you would expect, and it was between Enzo/Cass and Bayley for babyface crowd noise for the night. New Day also rock. <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I love Bailey. I've enjoyed her since she started. She reminds me of a typical 80's happy high schooler.</p>

[milamber]

Most of Raw was pretty weak. The way they booked the show I thought Survivor Series had been moved to this weekend. The main event, Strowman kicking ass and Bayley being mega over were the highlights.

[steesh07]

Can anybody help me out? Been looking on and off for the past few months looking for a match from WCW. I had seen it on WCW Worldwide on Channel 5 in the UK back when it originally aired and it had a Hell in a Cell like tag match on it. I remember someone getting put through a table. Any help would be appreciated as its an earlier memory wrestling I have.

[The Final Countdown]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I thought the quality of shows was closer this week but the good Smackdown main event and Talking Smack pushed it over the line for me.<p> </p><p> Speaking of Talking Smack, it's timeslot is being pushed back for the new 205 Live Cruiserweight show. The current Smackdown format is working great so it's a risk to mess with it. The Cruiserweights do need their own show the way they're booked on Raw outside of the title feud. But it's taping after Main Event and Smackdown so half the crowd would probably have left.</p></div></blockquote><p> Yeah, doing it after Smackdown just so you can do it live is a big mistake. The crowd reaction will probably be even worse than it currently is on Raw. Aside from the fact that they will just have sat through 2+ hours of wrestling, the main roster "creative team" has given fans absolutely zero reason to care about the cruiserweight division. They'd be far better off handling this similar to the way they did the CWC; tape several episodes at a time in a place like Full Sail. It'd be cheaper, the crowd reaction would be much better, and you could leave Talking Smack right where it is.</p><p> </p><p> Honestly, there's little point to a cruiserweight division on the main roster anyway. It made sense in WCW, because guys like Mysterio, Malenko, Guerrero and Ultimo Dragon (I don't hear his name mentioned nearly often enough!) were putting on matches unlike anything you'd see on the rest of the show. You certainly weren't getting that kind of action in WCW main events! But today's WWE has guys like Rollins and AJ in prominent main event spots, and even a lot of the bigger guys like Owens and Cesaro are capable of working that same sort of style. The cruiserweights aren't offering anything you can't see from the rest of the roster.</p>

[Blackman]

<p>I was just watching the Donald Trump material on the WWE network (for 9.99).</p><p> </p><p>

If ever there was a WWE Hall of Famer that would ever become president of the United States, Donald Trump would not be in my top 5 (and I mean that). But here we are... <img alt="" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/rolleyes.png.4b097f4fbbe99ce5bcd5efbc1b773ed6.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[kingjames]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="steesh07" data-cite="steesh07" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Can anybody help me out? Been looking on and off for the past few months looking for a match from WCW. I had seen it on WCW Worldwide on Channel 5 in the UK back when it originally aired and it had a Hell in a Cell like tag match on it. I remember someone getting put through a table. Any help would be appreciated as its an earlier memory wrestling I have.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oof, man, that could be a hard one. But to help narrow things down a bit, from what I'm seeing WCW WorldWide was broadcast on Channel 5 in the UK from July 1999 through WCW's closing in May 2001. The trick is, WCW WorldWide in the UK collected matches from Nitro, Thunder, and Saturday Night in the US that could be 5-6 weeks old - which is a different format than the WCW WorldWide syndicated in the US.</p><p> </p><p> So! If you really wanted to figure this out, you could review Nitro, Thunder, and Saturday Night results from about May 1999 through May 2001, looking for the match you're talking about? Do you remember any of the participants? Even one would help limit possibilities.</p>