The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[K-Nection]

I'm the only one apparently that is upset by the Asuka loss....but the thing is I think it would've told a way better story if Ember Moon was the one to finally take the streak away from Asuka.

[The Final Countdown]

Watch the match again. Steph was prepared for Ronda's offense, Hunter was prepared for Angle's offense.

No amount of preparation should allow Stephanie McMahon, an executive who's wrestled a handful of matches in her career, to block an armbar from a judoka who built her reputation on tapping people out very quickly with armbars.

[milamber]

I'm the only one apparently that is upset by the Asuka loss....but the thing is I think it would've told a way better story if Ember Moon was the one to finally take the streak away from Asuka.

 

It might have come a bit soon but with the way a lot of wrestling fans are prolonging the streak might have led to them turning on Asuka.

 

Ember is only just out of NXT vs Charlotte dominating for 2 years. They might be about equal in the ring but Ember can't cut a convincing promo to save her life. Ronda needs a lot more build before she's Asuka's level in kayfabe. Nia has been a failure in all her big matches until now. Charlotte is the only one who could believably beat Asuka between now and SummerSlam.

 

No amount of preparation should allow Stephanie McMahon, an executive who's wrestled a handful of matches in her career, to block an armbar from a judoka who built her reputation on tapping people out very quickly with armbars.

 

That was Steph's whole gameplan: block the armbar and cheat to get any offense in (because she knows can't outwrestle Ronda) until Hunter can Pedigree Angle. The gender lines got blurred and Angle stepped up, so the gameplan failed. It's not perfect storytelling but they can't have Ronda locking in the armbar early and beating tevery woman on the roster in squash matches. That would damage the division beyond repair.

[Blackman]

No amount of preparation should allow Stephanie McMahon, an executive who's wrestled a handful of matches in her career, to block an armbar from a judoka who built her reputation on tapping people out very quickly with armbars.

 

Indeed. All of her MMA opponents were obviously prepared for it, yet Ronda used variations of the move to get it done each time. How the hell would an executive block it?

 

This and the 6 F5's just crap on pro wrestling's inherent logic. I get that you're trying to sell a story but some things shown to us were just ridiculous.

 

The kid in the tag match was a fun troll (despite them hyping the damn revelation) but it appears it wasn't some prize winner or sick kid but a ref's kid. Why? Not that the prestige of the tag titles meant a lot in the past, but this is complete BS: is he going to be part of the roster?

 

On other instances the ref's just acted weird as hell. The bludgeon brothers were able to team for close to a minute without intervention. They didn't count when the shoulders were down. Either you make it into a complete circus or you play by your own rules. Make up your mind...

 

But as many said: it wasn't that bad. The only truly awful segment was the women's Mania battle royal (and no, it's not the first Women's battle royal in history ffs). The Andre BR was ok. It's supposed to be a gimmick BR and it was. Renallo was godly during NXT. Mania commentary luckily didn't detract from the experience but added very little.

[Dead_Jester]

I'm the only one apparently that is upset by the Asuka loss....but the thing is I think it would've told a way better story if Ember Moon was the one to finally take the streak away from Asuka.

 

I was as well, but not so much because the streak came to an end, I get why they did it, rather that It was to Charlotte who really didn't need it given the amount she has accomplished with more to come I've sure.

 

Personally I would have had Asuka go over Charlotte and had Carmella cash in her Money in the Bank thing and steal the title and end the streak. Asuka could still look strong going forward, after all she did have a high competitive match against Charlotte, and Carmella would have got some major heat making her a top heel in the Smackdown Women's Dvision.

[milamber]

I was as well, but not so much because the streak came to an end, I get why they did it, rather that It was to Charlotte who really didn't need it given the amount she has accomplished with more to come I've sure.

 

Personally I would have had Asuka go over Charlotte and had Carmella cash in her Money in the Bank thing and steal the title and end the streak. Asuka could still look strong going forward, after all she did have a high competitive match against Charlotte, and Carmella would have got some major heat making her a top heel in the Smackdown Women's Dvision.

 

And the IWC would have crapped all over it because Carmella doesn't even deserve a title shot let alone to beat the streak. Using Ellsworth to win the MITB got her enough heat and that dried up long ago. Vince made the right choice in Charlotte, IMO, but I'll concede that he might have jumped the gun and ended the streak too early.

[Blackman]

I almost enjoyed RAW more than Mania. There were some fun spots and the whole show was fluent.

[milamber]

Yeah, Raw was fun. Best parts were: Bray/Matt/Nero backstage, Joe murdering Roman on the mic, Braun/Nicholas backstage, Steph talking herself into another armbar, Owens & Zayn putting on a clinic and not getting signed to Raw, Ember finisher on Bliss.

[Mr. Jones]

I was as well, but not so much because the streak came to an end, I get why they did it, rather that It was to Charlotte who really didn't need it given the amount she has accomplished with more to come I've sure.

 

Personally I would have had Asuka go over Charlotte and had Carmella cash in her Money in the Bank thing and steal the title and end the streak. Asuka could still look strong going forward, after all she did have a high competitive match against Charlotte, and Carmella would have got some major heat making her a top heel in the Smackdown Women's Dvision.

 

That's what I personally would have loved to see. Not only does it keep Asuka strong, it legitimizes Carmella as a top heel for ending a streak in such a sketchy fashion.

[K-Nection]

And the IWC would have crapped all over it because Carmella doesn't even deserve a title shot let alone to beat the streak. Using Ellsworth to win the MITB got her enough heat and that dried up long ago. Vince made the right choice in Charlotte, IMO, but I'll concede that he might have jumped the gun and ended the streak too early.

 

Honestly Charlotte was already made and didn't need to break the streak (she was champ for christ's sake). Now if you had Asuka go over and take Charlotte off of TV for a few months and refocus her on getting back at Asuka at Summerslam then she would have something to gain at that point and would've been perfectly justified.

 

Now where does Asuka go from here? Her streak was killed and there is nothing to do with her other than feed her down the line or take her off of TV for a few months if you want to build her up again. (If anyone on the roster deserves a heel turn it is the Empress of Tomorrow at this point) When someone breaks a streak its best to do it with someone who is on the brink that way that win can legitimize them. What did Kevin Nash gain by killing Goldberg's streak? Nothing because he was already made and Goldberg's momentum was killed and not properly payed forward. If you remember Big Kev's next loss was the finger poke of doom (Yay! for swerves). Now if somebody coming up in the ranks at the time would've taken the streak it would legitimize them big time.

 

Did Brock benefit from killing Undertaker's streak....well yes he did lmao because before then he had two big losses to both John Cena and Triple H. It was a win or die situation if you look at it for Brock and if he would've lost that match then he would have no business even coming back.

[sebsy]

I've got no issue at all with Charlotte breaking the streak, or the way it was done. It was refreshing that it was done in such a way that they mentioned it, but didn't make it this big huge main thing so that when it did end it was a surprise.

 

Charlotte doesn't need it, no, but there is no one better for Asuka to have her streak ended to than the best woman on the roster.

 

Also, it gets the whole monkey of the streak off her back before it becomes this huge thing that is the only thing about Asuka and they can now use the fact it has ended moving forward.

[The Final Countdown]

It's not perfect storytelling but they can't have Ronda locking in the armbar early and beating tevery woman on the roster in squash matches. That would damage the division beyond repair.

Oh, for sure. I'm not suggesting she should squash the division; the actual full-time women's wrestlers should be able to compete with her, and the likes of Asuka, Charlotte, Becky, etc. could do the same armbar defense stuff Stephanie did without taking me out of the match at all. Even though they wouldn't be able to stop her from getting those armbars on in a legit fight, in pro wrestling kayfabe they're world-class and technically skilled. In kayfabe and in reality, Stephanie is an executive who almost never wrestles.

 

I'm not even saying she should've tapped Stephanie out the minute they were both in the ring. They just should've used shenanigans to avoid Ronda having her in that position until the match was going to end. It would've been easy enough, with HHH and Angle both in the match. They even could've used that "authority threatening the ref" story they teased to have a moment or two where the ref dubiously prevents Ronda from getting her hands on Stephanie.

 

When someone breaks a streak its best to do it with someone who is on the brink that way that win can legitimize them.

My all-time favorite example of this is in the early years of ROH. Samoa Joe went on a nearly two year run as this unstoppable ROH champion who legitimized the title and made it feel important. After two one hour draws between them, many expected CM Punk to finally be the one who beat him in the third match of their trilogy. But Punk didn't need the win, because he was already a made man and arguably the most over guy in the company. Joe beat him in that third match, and very soon after dropped the belt in a shock to a newer, rising talent named Austin Aries. That match skyrocketed Aries into a top spot in the company overnight, and beating the dominant Joe did far more for him than it possibly could have done for Punk.

[K-Nection]

My all-time favorite example of this is in the early years of ROH. Samoa Joe went on a nearly two year run as this unstoppable ROH champion who legitimized the title and made it feel important. After two one hour draws between them, many expected CM Punk to finally be the one who beat him in the third match of their trilogy. But Punk didn't need the win, because he was already a made man and arguably the most over guy in the company. Joe beat him in that third match, and very soon after dropped the belt in a shock to a newer, rising talent named Austin Aries. That match skyrocketed Aries into a top spot in the company overnight, and beating the dominant Joe did far more for him than it possibly could have done for Punk.

 

I really feel like I have to start PM'ing you on what ROH matches I should watch lol.

[Mootinie]

Quick Mania thoughts are as follows:

- Asuka losing the streak was the right move, I felt it had run its course and I can't think of anybody else but Charlotte that should be ending it. Nobody else is a star like her, I don't think anybody is going to be at her level in the recent future either. Now let's see what Asuka has going for her but an undefeated streak.

- Rousey was better than I expected her to be and the match was sports entertaining, it was hilarious and so melodramatic at the end. Steph, you know you can grip your hand again after Rousey breaks that grip right? Probably their intention but this was funny stuff.

- Braun is such a star and the Nicholas stuff was brilliant. I got serious Hulk Hogan vibes with Strowman when he was celebrating after the match. HUGE POP too! He's really great and I can't imagine Cesaro and Sheamus will be disappointed, they played their part and a great time was had by all.

- Who on this planet thought that the best thing for Lesnar vs. Reigns was to work a snail's pace and just have loads of finisher kickouts? It was incredible just how unbelievably boring it was to witness and it's no better on rewatch either. This was at the conclusion of a five hour show. They just popped big on comedy and then you give them that? It needed to be fast, intense and short, a sprint like last year's match with Goldberg. Roman deserved better than this absolute trash. Bust your ass 365 days a year for this pay-off, what a joke. Minus five stars because this match failed on every level.

- How can Vince watch his own product and not put a main event on like Roman vs Styles? Roman vs Braun? Styles vs Cena? Styles vs Rollins? What is he seeing in Lesnar? This was the year to go with an exciting 30-minuter, a WrestleMania 19-esque main event, a superb display of atheticism at the end of a brisk four-hour show. This is the era they are in now. It's time to let go of TELLING STORIES and just put on a show for the crowd. The opener was a TV match and it was the MOTN on their grandest stage.

- Back to me moaning about the length of the show but so much time was wasted. Did you need the SmackDown tag title match? Did you need Shane to go back and forth with KO & Sami when the whole story in that match was D-Bry's in-ring return? Styles/Nak needed to be ten minutes, save the proper match for a later date when your SD PPV card demands a 30-minute back and forth main event. Nia should have won in 30 seconds, again, save the actual match for later, this is just about the moment. They need to get from A to B as quickly as possible, right now they waste too much time middling about.

[CQI13]

Reigns is going over at The Greatest Royal Rumble and then Lesnar/Heyman are done. It is what it is.

 

Would love to see Reigns win, turn heel, and when the fans get behind him (as a heel) for him to crap all over them.

[milamber]

Nakamura heel turn off to a great start. If they keep him, Styles and Bryan together and Almas, Smackdown will be set for the next 6+ months.

 

[smurphy1014]

Nakamura heel turn off to a great start. If they keep him, Styles and Bryan together and Almas, Smackdown will be set for the next 6+ months.

 

 

The best part of this was when he answered Renee's follow up question with "I don't speak English"

[Jaysin]

Nakamura heel turn off to a great start. If they keep him, Styles and Bryan together and Almas, Smackdown will be set for the next 6+ months.

 

 

It's nuts that Chaos turning heel in New Japan sends Nakamura to the heelside.

 

Heel Nakamura is wonderful though.

[shawn michaels]

I wonder if Lesnar's deal is really short term, as some sources are saying. Cause others claimed it was long term. Vince may be swerving us again.

[liontamer]

well, my long post got deleted and I'm not retyping it all. Short version...

 

Rousey's match way better than my expectations. I have no issues with steph defending the arm bar as I do the same stuff vs brown belts and just started training. It works. For me right now things that work are rare and these defenses do. If it's all you are watching for I think it's reasonable. But I would have had Ronda make fake a switch to a triangle to get steph to adjust her hands and then re-lock it in to show the difference in BJJ training and intelligence.

 

I did find the second arm bar attempt awkward as she just kinda sat on steph, never locked it in, but the announcers kinda still sold it. Not sure why she didn't lock it in.

 

I also think I would have like the match to end with Rousey chasing Steph out and then her and Kurt simultaneously submitting Hunter since he was the bigger instigator.

 

 

Without spoilers as I don't have access yet, how were the shows after WM?

 

 

 

also, Jinder looks to me like he took roids. The lumps under his nipples looks like the side effects of the first body builders to use them that didn't know about the need for estrogen blockers and developed the same thing and even lactated on stage.

[Jaysin]

Without spoilers as I don't have access yet, how were the shows after WM?

 

 

 

also, Jinder looks to me like he took roids. The lumps under his nipples looks like the side effects of the first body builders to use them that didn't know about the need for estrogen blockers and developed the same thing and even lactated on stage.

 

Raw was stupendous. I even watched all three hours and usually I stick with the Hulu version(90 minutes).

 

Raw after Mania is starting to seem artificial though. It doesn't feel organic anymore. Might be because NOLA isn't a "smark" town, but still Raw was great.

 

Gonna watch Smackdown tonight most likely, but I've heard nothing but good things so far.

[Blackman]

It doesn't feel organic anymore.

 

Might have something to do with the commentators mentioning it a gazillion times (including Steph).

 

Watched the main event by now and it was just a complete failure. The crowd was just dead. 6 F5's? That's just a sad attempt to put Reigns over. To be fair: they both did a decent enough job.

 

The cash-in segment on Smackdown was well done. At least the Iconics made an impact. I remember last year where the women's "triplet" factions debuted (I don't even recall the names) which was just so random it was forgettable. No shared history, no shared traits, not even shared color patterns or logos or whatever. That made no sense.

[CQI13]

Good thing AJ/Nakamura didn't main event - ending notwithstanding as good as it was it lacked the emotion of a "Dream Match".

 

The Balor/Nakamura exhibition had a better crowd. What was the crowd waiting for?

[K-Nection]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CQI13" data-cite="CQI13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Good thing AJ/Nakamura didn't main event - ending notwithstanding as good as it was it lacked the emotion of a "Dream Match".<p> </p><p> The Balor/Nakamura exhibition had a better crowd. What was the crowd waiting for?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If you think about it Mania was a 7 hour event. That was a 3 hour pre show and a 4 hour main show. The stadium was pretty much full for that 7 hours. I can't imagine going to watch a 7 hour wrestling event but I say nothing below someone being murdered in the 5th row is going to get me excited by hour 5.</p><p> </p><p> The crowd would've probably been more hyped for AJ vs. Nak if they didn't just watch 6 previous hours of wrestling. Charolette vs. Asuka sapped all the energy out of the crowd and no amount of cool down angles could bring them back.</p>

[Jaysin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Might have something to do with the commentators mentioning it a gazillion times (including Steph). <p> </p><p> Watched the main event by now and it was just a complete failure. The crowd was just dead. 6 F5's? That's just a sad attempt to put Reigns over. To be fair: they both did a decent enough job.</p><p> </p><p> The cash-in segment on Smackdown was well done. At least the Iconics made an impact. I remember last year where the women's "triplet" factions debuted (I don't even recall the names) which was just so random it was forgettable. No shared history, no shared traits, not even shared color patterns or logos or whatever. That made no sense.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Smackdown as a whole was entertaining. Felt like Usos and New Day were slightly off though. Usually those two teams are so fluid together, but they were clearly exhausted or something from the last week. Still a fun match though and the feud will most likely go down as one of the best tag feuds ever. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CQI13" data-cite="CQI13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Good thing AJ/Nakamura didn't main event - ending notwithstanding as good as it was it lacked the emotion of a "Dream Match".<p> </p><p> The Balor/Nakamura exhibition had a better crowd. What was the crowd waiting for?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I was glad it didn't main event because it meant I didn't have to wait 7 hours to see one of my most anticipated matches. The crowd was exhausted and I know I was at home as well. Wasn't as good as their WK match, but still a pretty dang good match. Nakamura's heel turn was wonderful and his follow up on Smackdown was brilliant.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="K-Nection" data-cite="K-Nection" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If you think about it Mania was a 7 hour event. That was a 3 hour pre show and a 4 hour main show. The stadium was pretty much full for that 7 hours. I can't imagine going to watch a 7 hour wrestling event but I say nothing below someone being murdered in the 5th row is going to get me excited by hour 5.<p> </p><p> The crowd would've probably been more hyped for AJ vs. Nak if they didn't just watch 6 previous hours of wrestling. Charolette vs. Asuka sapped all the energy out of the crowd and no amount of cool down angles could bring them back.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> My thoughts exactly. My buddies and I watched both Takeover and Supercard of Honor back to back and it was a haul to get through despite having some very good match ups. Sometimes less is more with wrestling. </p><p> </p><p> I still enjoyed WM weekend quite a bit even I hate that Cole won the NXT North American and UE retained the tag belts. I wish it was O'reilly that got injured so we could have Fish and Roddy as tag champs. I'd enjoy UE a whole lot more if that was the case.</p><p> </p><p> Really hoping Almas goes a good starting place on the main roster. His character work since being paired with Zelina has been great.</p>