The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[milamber]

Does this say much about how they view AEW?

 

In some senses they're already staging a war against them from show 1 essentially, but they're doing it with their C/D brand, the one that has a lot of the "work rate" guys in and a lot of guys AEW would have loved to have signed if they weren't tied down to contracts.

 

If they'd gone in with a SmackDown you could sense fear from WWE, but this almost just screams, hey we don't mind losing a bit of revenue from the Network if it means we can put you to bed quickly.

 

It's rumored USA are paying $50 million for NXT so revenue is the primary motivator. It's also said it will stay in Full Sail and Vince will be hands-off so long as they don't trail behind AEW in ratings.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if 205 Live ends soon. Maybe Gallagher to NXT UK, Gulak/Nese/Tozawa to the main roster and everyone else to NXT.

 

I'm not really looking forward to it, TBH. 2 hours of AEW and 3 hours of NXT & NXT UK on the same day every week is going to be tough.

[CQI13]

I don't have cable, and TNT isn't part of Hulu. Also, not paying any amount of money for their events when I can get what I want on the Network.

 

I saw The Elite at Triplemania a few weeks back. Omega is talented, but honestly there's a lot of flippy spots they had which I guess the crowd pops for but I just found "meh".

 

Two hours of NXT is too much though. Part of the beauty is that it's an hour.

[milamber]

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<p>The day WWE died was when they stopped developing talent or having the territories to steal guys from.</p><p> </p><p>

This current roster of Indy fllippy guys is absolute dogshit, and ratings go down every year and they just keep the same formula of hiring more bingo hall gymnasts.</p>

[Warhawk8492]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The day WWE died was when they stopped developing talent or having the territories to steal guys from.<p> </p><p> This current roster of Indy fllippy guys is absolute dogshit, and ratings go down every year and they just keep the same formula of hiring more bingo hall gymnasts.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> <img alt="Rick-Harrison-cool-story-1.jpg" data-src="https://i.ibb.co/yRp3JKj/Rick-Harrison-cool-story-1.jpg" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[DeathZone2]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>The day WWE died was when they stopped developing talent or having the territories to steal guys from.<p> </p><p> This current roster of Indy fllippy guys is absolute dogshit, and ratings go down every year and they just keep the same formula of hiring more bingo hall gymnasts.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Dude that's just an asanine statement, WWE have a lot of homegrown talent. Chad Gable, Charlotte, Braun, Alexa, Roman etc. That's in no way the problem. </p><p> The problem is the lack of consistent writing, their TV typically sucks but their events rule, because they can't write consistent television. </p><p> </p><p> And wrestling ratings have been declining since literally THE DAY WCW died. The WCW fans didn't just switch over to WWF, they stopped watching. A lot of fans were lost when WWE changed their product because wrestling just lost popularity.</p>

[Mootinie]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="milamber" data-cite="milamber" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I wouldn't be surprised if 205 Live ends soon. Maybe Gallagher to NXT UK, Gulak/Nese/Tozawa to the main roster and everyone else to NXT.</div></blockquote><p> Well, it's been said that the NXT contracts will become main roster contracts and they'll all get a bump, so they'll likely trim the fat considerably and make NXT's roster a lot more "cost-effective". They're already inundated with talent that doesn't get on TV anywhere near enough.</p>

[TLCJR4LIFE]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="DeathZone2" data-cite="DeathZone2" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Dude that's just an asanine statement, WWE have a lot of homegrown talent. Chad Gable, Charlotte, Braun, Alexa, Roman etc. That's in no way the problem. <p> The problem is the lack of consistent writing, their TV typically sucks but their events rule, because they can't write consistent television. </p><p> </p><p> And wrestling ratings have been declining since literally THE DAY WCW died. The WCW fans didn't just switch over to WWF, they stopped watching. A lot of fans were lost when WWE changed their product because wrestling just lost popularity.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You basically just listed 4 of WWE's best acts by far and of those 4, only Gable isn't actually significant monetary draw.</p><p> The issue is that 4 workers aren't really enough when you are running like 4 shows a week mega company.</p><p> </p><p> The one good thing is unlike AEW, the NXT teaches the indy guys how to actually work(especially the tag teams). </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> My issue Is if you are gonna get some fat guy like Kassius Ohno and develop him via NXT why not just get some green guy who looks the part and see how far you can train him?</p><p> </p><p> Its not like, compared to these indy guys the green guys are THAT far behind the curve with a year or two of development. Pretty much all of WWE's megastars are from an era they actually did this (Batista, Cena, Orton, Lesnar, guys who are still drawing even in 2019)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Could even get some guy like Cody Hall or Haku's kid(who is completely and utterly horrible but really really big)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> The standard of signing is so low these days whenever someone comes along that actually looks like they work out a bit or better yet, they actually look touh and that they could beat a local tough guy, or that they have the ability to actually cut a promo, people lose their minds.</p><p> </p><p> Like this was commonplace for decades. Just because the WWE goes around signing a bunch of indie hacks now like Sean Strickland, Ricochet, Apollo Crews, that dude that walked around as Lashley's manager for a bit, Ali...</p><p> </p><p> The list goes on and on. A bunch of generic, bland athletes with neither size, credibility or charisma.</p>

[The Swanton825]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You basically just listed 4 of WWE's best acts by far and of those 4, only Gable isn't actually significant monetary draw.<p> The issue is that 4 workers aren't really enough when you are running like 4 shows a week mega company.</p><p> </p><p> The one good thing is unlike AEW, the NXT teaches the indy guys how to actually work(especially the tag teams). </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> My issue Is if you are gonna get some fat guy like Kassius Ohno and develop him via NXT why not just get some green guy who looks the part and see how far you can train him?</p><p> </p><p> Its not like, compared to these indy guys the green guys are THAT far behind the curve with a year or two of development. Pretty much all of WWE's megastars are from an era they actually did this (Batista, Cena, Orton, Lesnar, guys who are still drawing even in 2019)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Could even get some guy like Cody Hall or Haku's kid(who is completely and utterly horrible but really really big)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> The standard of signing is so low these days whenever someone comes along that actually looks like they work out a bit or better yet, they actually look touh and that they could beat a local tough guy, or that they have the ability to actually cut a promo, people lose their minds.</p><p> </p><p> Like this was commonplace for decades. Just because the WWE goes around signing a bunch of indie hacks now like Sean Strickland, Ricochet, Apollo Crews, that dude that walked around as Lashley's manager for a bit, Ali...</p><p> </p><p> The list goes on and on. A bunch of generic, bland athletes with neither size, credibility or charisma.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I swear I've heard these exact same arguments from the never-was "veterans" who hang out at Southern indie shows and do nothing but moan about how wrestling was so much better back in the day and "I'll have you know I was in the PWI 500 in 1993, but they got my name wrong" but when you ask for meaningful advice to change your own wrestling to better fit what they want to see, they stammer and just mumble about knowing the numbers of title reigns guys like Harley Race had.</p>

[DeathZone2]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TLCJR4LIFE" data-cite="TLCJR4LIFE" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You basically just listed 4 of WWE's best acts by far and of those 4, only Gable isn't actually significant monetary draw.<p> The issue is that 4 workers aren't really enough when you are running like 4 shows a week mega company.</p><p> </p><p> The one good thing is unlike AEW, the NXT teaches the indy guys how to actually work(especially the tag teams). </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> My issue Is if you are gonna get some fat guy like Kassius Ohno and develop him via NXT why not just get some green guy who looks the part and see how far you can train him?</p><p> </p><p> Its not like, compared to these indy guys the green guys are THAT far behind the curve with a year or two of development. Pretty much all of WWE's megastars are from an era they actually did this (Batista, Cena, Orton, Lesnar, guys who are still drawing even in 2019)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> Could even get some guy like Cody Hall or Haku's kid(who is completely and utterly horrible but really really big)</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> The standard of signing is so low these days whenever someone comes along that actually looks like they work out a bit or better yet, they actually look touh and that they could beat a local tough guy, or that they have the ability to actually cut a promo, people lose their minds.</p><p> </p><p> Like this was commonplace for decades. Just because the WWE goes around signing a bunch of indie hacks now like Sean Strickland, Ricochet, Apollo Crews, that dude that walked around as Lashley's manager for a bit, Ali...</p><p> </p><p> The list goes on and on. A bunch of generic, bland athletes with neither size, credibility or charisma.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I listed the "4 best acts" because you said WWE don't develop talent which they definitely do, guys like Ohno aren't there to be developed they are training others. And you don't seem to understand what makes a good worker or the qualities that those guys you listed have that make them worthwhile people to have, not everyone needs to be a 300 pound roid monkey and not everyone needs to be a no psychology flippy guy they all have good qualities that make them worth sigining </p><p> </p><p> Ali- 100 wholesome Babyface, plays the underdog </p><p> perfectly</p><p> </p><p> Ricochet- good flippy guy with decent psychology that </p><p> appeals to kids </p><p> </p><p> Rush- decent on the mic and added to Lashley's act</p><p> </p><p> Strickland and Crews I'll give you, but this idea that you have to be massive doesn't make sense.</p>

[MightyDavidson]

I listed the "4 best acts" because you said WWE don't develop talent which they definitely do, guys like Ohno aren't there to be developed they are training others. And you don't seem to understand what makes a good worker or the qualities that those guys you listed have that make them worthwhile people to have, not everyone needs to be a 300 pound roid monkey and not everyone needs to be a no psychology flippy guy they all have good qualities that make them worth sigining

 

Ali- 100 wholesome Babyface, plays the underdog

perfectly

 

Ricochet- good flippy guy with decent psychology that

appeals to kids

 

Rush- decent on the mic and added to Lashley's act

 

Strickland and Crews I'll give you, but this idea that you have to be massive doesn't make sense.

 

Crews I'd call a victim of that inconsistent writing you mentioned earlier. Dude's legit talented and with a good story and push, he could probably get over. However it just seems like WWE hired him simply to have him on the roster (which seems to be the case for a few guys on their roster it seems) rather then a desire to actually do anything with him.

[franticloser]

 

 

The only people who would be any issue in a bar fight these days are Brock, Reigns, Braun and maybe Cena, and not so coincidentally these are most of the biggest draws in the industry to this day.

 

This is particularly paramount to the mainstream/casual audience who generally won’t pay to see someone fight if they don’t even think they could kick THEIR ass.

 

We have learned from MMA that size and how in shape you look doesn't equate to toughness. This is true even going further back in Pro Wrestling. Danny Hodge never looked like a world beater. But any wrestler who knew him would tell you that they wouldn't want to face him in a real fight (the guy could bend pliers with his hands) Arn Anderson never in his life looked "in shape" but you knew he wasn't a guy to mess with, Harley Race and Vader as well. Most of those guys in the 80s and 90s with the great bodies where all show muscle, and wouldn't be able to go in a bar fight.

 

As for your list of guys who would be able to be an issue in a bar fight. One Cena is not someone I would be afraid to fight in a bar. He has no fighting background. Reigns maybe based on being a football player but probably not again show muscles versus strength. To add to your list though Cesaro, Shemus, Alistair Black, Big E, Rowan, Lashley, Akam, Rezar, Ivar, Erik, Crews, Rusev, Dain, Riddle, and Gable. (Not to mention Lacey Evans a former Marine and Alexa Bliss who has a background in kickboxing probably able to kick at least your butt in a fight.)

 

All of them have either real life backgrounds in fighting of some sort or are legit tough and strong guys based on what other wrestlers say about them. Most of whom are not or have never been draws, but by your very selective mind should be top guys because aside from Gable and maybe Black they all look like they can kill you in a fight. Maybe as I've said before your very narrow view of what wrestling should be is not even what other mainstream viewers think it should be.

 

I'll give you the Young Bucks and a lack of psychology on the indies, but the indies is a different game that caters to another select audience of fans that don't think like everyone else. Wrestling is at it's best when there is something for everyone. Like the 90s WCW where you had cruiserweights, tag teams, a good mid card, and then the melodramatic main event stuff with the nWo.

 

By your thought process, would Hart and Michaels not qualify as guys who could carry a company? Because Hart never looked super huge or tough and neither did Michaels. You could even make a case of Austin as he was never jacked during his run on the top, and The Rock though huge now, when he wrestled he was comparable to Austin in size.

 

Last point I'll make on show muscles versus actually knowing how to fight. Jericho held down Goldberg. Jericho admits he didn't know what he was doing and just locked in a front face lock and wouldn't let go. But it worked and he won that fight against the guy you think would be an issue in a fight.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

What on earth are you talking about, Arn Anderson and Vader were huge.

 

Legitimate burly muscular guys.

 

Arn especially was burly but unlike say, Kevin Owens or Baron Corbin didn’t need to wrestle in a shirt because he was actually in shape.

 

Also LMAO at Alexa Bliss being able to kick my ass, she wouldn’t even be able to kick one of my dates asses let alone a guy.

 

 

Also peak Stone Cold

 

 

 

Not exactly looking like CM Punk out here. He’s also about a legit 6’1 on top of obviously being muscular and in shape.

 

 

 

And Foldberg would’ve killed Jericho. Jericho admitted it himself the lockeroom saved him.

[DeathZone2]

What on earth are you talking about, Arn Anderson and Vader were huge.

 

Legitimate burly muscular guys.

 

Arn especially was burly but unlike say, Kevin Owens didn’t need to wrestler in a short because he was actually in shape.

 

Also LMAO at Alexa Bliss being able to kick my ass, she wouldn’t even be able to kick one of my dates asses let alone a guy.

 

 

Also peak Stone Cold

 

 

 

Not exactly looking like CM Punk out here

 

Is there a pit stop between here and your point?

[TLCJR4LIFE]

I mean we are literally comparing Stone Cold and The Rock to freaking Seth Rollins and Kofi.

 

In terms of looking like an actual tough guy/legitimate.

 

The point is you don’t cast Gabriel Inglesias to play an action hero. WWE has somehow forgotten the premise of the sport is one guy being athletically and technically superior to the others and stopped pushing athletes and started pushing flippy guys to appease Indy smarks.

[franticloser]

You specifically mention in shape, Arn had a dad bod, he wasn't fat but he for sure wasn't in shape. Vader was a massive dude, but there was always more fat then muscle. But fine I'll concede and throw up Bam Bam Bigelow which I think is a perfect comparison to Owens. You also glossed over Hodge, was a junior heavyweight wrestler who could kill most of the guys in the ring. As for Austin did he have muscles? Yes but he was still smaller then other guys at the time.

 

Bliss has a background in kick boxing you know an actual legit fighting background. What do you have?

 

And when WWE tried pushing someone who looked the part according to your standards i.e, Reigns, the fans revolted. when the crowd noise is all boos you kind of have issues with your theory.

 

Also good job ignoring my direct question regarding how you rate Hart and Michaels.

[DeathZone2]

I mean we are literally comparing Stone Cold and The Rock to freaking Seth Rollins and Kofi.

 

In terms of looking like an actual tough guy/legitimate.

 

The point is you don’t cast Gabriel Inglesias to play an action hero. WWE has somehow forgotten the premise of the sport is one guy being athletically and technically superior to the others and stopped pushing athletes and started pushing flippy guys to appease Indy smarks.

 

But that doesn't relate in anyway to what makes a star, being able to legitimately kick ass, or at least looking like you can, does not affect whether you can get over. Lets use two examples

 

Steve Blackman

He looked like a legitimate bad ass, used martial arts weapons and could probably murder 99% of the roster.

He had the charisma of wet chalk and couldn't get past midcard status, he was in no way larger than life.

 

Rey Mysterio

Guy is legit 5'2", hell I could probably kick his ass, yet he got over and was larger than life and seen as a superhero, his size worked for him.

 

Looking like a bad ass does not equal being a star.

 

Why do you keep moving the goalposts?

[TLCJR4LIFE]

You specifically mention in shape, Arn had a dad bod, he wasn't fat but he for sure wasn't in shape. Vader was a massive dude, but there was always more fat then muscle. But fine I'll concede and throw up Bam Bam Bigelow which I think is a perfect comparison to Owens. You also glossed over Hodge, was a junior heavyweight wrestler who could kill most of the guys in the ring. As for Austin did he have muscles? Yes but he was still smaller then other guys at the time.

 

Bliss has a background in kick boxing you know an actual legit fighting background. What do you have?

 

And when WWE tried pushing someone who looked the part according to your standards i.e, Reigns, the fans revolted. when the crowd noise is all boos you kind of have issues with your theory.

 

Also good job ignoring my direct question regarding how you rate Hart and Michaels.

 

In shape does not mean ripped.

 

 

This is not a dad bod, anyone who has a physique like this clearly works out and he got even larger over time.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

Compare

 

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/wwe-dean-ambrose-1548806383.jpg

 

Skinny with zero definition. Almost the complete modern trope of the average millennial man allergic to the gym. No muscle size at all.

 

 

Edit: (Stretched page)

[DeathZone2]

Dude you keep repeating the same thing without actually addressing any of the points brought in front of you. Repeating your opinion does not make it valid, it's just signs of someone who's talking out of their ass.

[TLCJR4LIFE]

I rate Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart as two guys who nearly sunk the WWE when given the ball and then actual draws came along and they looked a lot better for it.

[franticloser]

The guys you mentioned of being an issue in a bar fight, are huge muscle guy. Of the four you mentioned Lesnar is a proven tough guy if you avoid his chin, and Braun as far as I know doesn't have a background in fighting but I wouldn't want to mess with him. And while he isn't shredded he is jacked. Cena is ripped and Reigns is as well. So, forgive me from making an assumption of in shape being ripped/jacked based on your examples.

 

I am not confused by what you mean for in shape. Kingston looks in shape, just not huge (concave chest not withstanding.) Dash and Dawson look in shape, Rollins looks in shape, Ciampa is in shape, Cole is in shape, Dream is in shape.

 

Side note to old stars not needing to be in shape, one name to completely kill your theory. Dusty Rhodes.

 

So the fact that the lowest ratings and draws was during Diesel's run you know that guy who looked huge and should have been a top guy doesn't mean anything? It was all Michael's and Hart's fault? Michaels brought DX and the helped paved the way to the Attitude era, Hart helped make Austin into the megastar he was.

 

And yes Arn looked like he worked out and looked like he drank a keg and a half a night. You can have muscles and be fat at the same time, pretty sure that is what a dad bod is. My point was Arn looked like an every man of the 70s and 80s. Much like a lot of the guys now look like the every man of today.

 

I'll let the actual wrestlers who say the best wrestlers in the world ever are Flair (another guy who was never a big guy) and Michaels. Because you know if anyone has an authority of who the best wrestlers are it would be you know actual wrestlers, not a casual fan.

[DeathZone2]

I rate Shawn Michaels and Bret Hart as two guys who nearly sunk the WWE when given the ball and then actual draws came along and they looked a lot better for it.

 

Dude what? HBK and Bret, 2 of the best to ever lace up a pair of boots and they nearly sunk WWF? 96 was Bret and HBK and that was when WWF was leading a resurgence. Someone who'd be a draw in your eyes the massive Diesel had one of the worst title reigns ever, what are you on about?

[TLCJR4LIFE]

They look like guys who spend their entire gym session on the stair master and treadmill and never lift any heavy weight.

[shawn michaels]

They look like guys who spend their entire gym session on the stair master and treadmill and never lift any heavy weight.

 

Dude, that's called personal preference, yours and apparently from half a dozen dudes that watched wrestling back in the day. Your opinion, regardless of how wrong or right it may be, does not represent mainstream audiences. Add to that the fact you did not refute one single argument made against your thesis and there is not much more to say about this.