The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[PeterHilton]

I think but can't be sure that even for a casual who watches for 2 to 3 years it becomes kinda predictable and stale. I am not saying one is superior to the other, actually the E's is atm, but that they both have their flaws. TNA is becoming less all over the place though it seems.

 

Two to three year in short spurts? Like...consistently watch for a few months then tune out for a few months and come back? I doubt it.

 

If you're watching every week for years you're not a casual fan. You're a wreslting geek lol

 

And TNA ...you know as well as I do that a couple weeks of good shows doesn't mean anything. They need to do this for months before I beleive the writing team is on the right track.

[PeterHilton]

On a lighter note:

 

WWE's video of SHawn post-match last night

 

http://www.wwe.com/content/media/video/vms/wrestlemania/2010/march29-31/13951768

[Tha Black Phenom]

His little talk with Bret Hart at the end of the vid was a nice sight.

 

Anyway, onto the show... I can't completely rate it, I was drunk in a bar downtown when I watched it and I even missed 1/4 of the show, coming in at 8pm. For what it was and what I remember... World title matches were alright, was psyched at Jericho retaining, and Taker/HBK II was a masterpiece yet again, still not as much as the first. But those two know how to put on a show. Somehow I don't think Shawn will be back soon, everybody's all "oh he'll be back around SummerSlam" but I really doubt it. If he ever does return, it'll be in a long looong while.

 

Punk/Rey was very cool, people say it was short but again.. I can't judge on that. Punk's pre-match promo was awesome, yet again. Bret/Vince.. draggingfest, can't blame them but there should've been more.. say, prompt actions. Some parts dragged when they really didn't need to. I like Sheamus and I like that Triple H beat him. They're gonna build him slowly again, and from the top. Definitely see the guy going to SmackDown! to make a name for himself.

 

Jack Swagger. Son of a b...

[Gabbo]

Kinda think HBK will be back to work a few Rumble to Mania programs over the next five years. Before gradually easing into full-time retirement.

 

Great, fantastic, brilliant match though, told a better story than last years match in what seemed like lesser time. Maybe it just flew by.

 

Cena and Batista was the next best match, I think. Nothing else excited or interested me.

 

Bret and Vince was a disappointment, although they did what they could with it. I missed the lack of backstage segments, legends and celebrities, that they usually feature. All in all it felt less of an 'event'. More like a glossy SummerSlam.

 

My days as a wrestling fan are looking numbered.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I think the whole predictability thing is overblown...yeah, the internet wrestling community knows everything that's going to happen, but this is the minority. And the WWE ignores that minority completely. For the average fan, the guy that doesn't read the dirt sheets or go to message board, I think there's still plenty of surprises.

 

But I have to disagree with you completely on the Undertaker match...I don't think it would be good business to have HBK win. Let's assume HBK is willing to commit to another match next year, and they have an amazing rubber match at Wrestlemania 27...then what? Who does Undertaker fight at Wrestlemania 28? Does anymore care? I don't. Once Undertaker's undefeated streak ends, you can't bring it back. That draw is gone forever. Having him lose is kind of like saying the WWE title can't be defended at Wrestlemania anymore. That's how big his streak is. In terms of business, they need to make that last as long as possible - meaning IF he ever loses, it damn well better be in his last Wrestlemania match.

 

If you wanted to take the whole rubber match approach, they could've had them fight at SummerSlam and HBK take the win to prove he can beat him, then set up the third at this Wrestlemania...but they both took off too much time for that to happen.

 

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying, man. I'm talking about a Wrestlemania Rubber Match, as in a Rock/Austin style trilogy. I don't care about the other PPVs, Undertaker loses on those, and it's no big deal. Austin himself said "Sure, you can beat him, but not at Wrestlemania." So it would do nothing for Michaels to win at Summerslam... You're telling me you wouldn't have sat there in absolute awe if Shawn Michaels ended the streak and then went on a monster win streak afterwards leading to one more title run? The WWE needs a monster surprise like this to happen to re-ignite the fire in the IWC and casual fans alike.

[thommohawk]

Kinda think HBK will be back to work a few Rumble to Mania programs over the next five years. Before gradually easing into full-time retirement.

 

Great, fantastic, brilliant match though, told a better story than last years match in what seemed like lesser time. Maybe it just flew by.

 

Cena and Batista was the next best match, I think. Nothing else excited or interested me.

 

Bret and Vince was a disappointment, although they did what they could with it. I missed the lack of backstage segments, legends and celebrities, that they usually feature. All in all it felt less of an 'event'. More like a glossy SummerSlam.

 

My days as a wrestling fan are looking numbered.

 

All I can say is thank god for TNA at least I'm good.....unless TNA goes to the pits but I can't see it. There's always UFC too but that's not always great, last one was average....anyways....am I the only one who isn't overhyping that Taker vs HBK match at WrestleMania just because it's Taker vs Michaels II and HBK's last match, it wasn't epic at all I've seen WWE produce way better before, hell I've seen Taker vs Michaels produce way better - like last year. This year wasn't a patch on last year I'm sorry. Not to say it sucked because it didn't but I'd have expected much better out of Shawn Michaels' last match to be bluntly honest.

 

It's like the Dark Knight movie in a way, it was good but it wasn't that great and yet Heath Ledger dies and suddenly his rendition of the Joker was masterful (granted it was good and mission accomplished he was better than Nicholsen RIP Heath) and the movie even better (again good and mission accomplished) but again it wasn't nearly as great as it was being made out to be. I'm all for a straight laced opinion, but I hate this unfair praise/criticism thing that people do all the time that gets right on my nerves. Especially when it bites them in the ass because it's like I told you so.

 

Chalk up another rant!

[PeterHilton]

All I can say is thank god for TNA at least I'm good.....unless TNA goes to the pits but I can't see it.

 

 

You did see the PPV that ended with the hole in the ring right?

[RingofHonorGuard]

 

On a final note about Wrestlemania, my honest opinion about the Michaels vs Taker match - 1) it wasn't anywhere near as good as last year's, though that wasn't to be expected. 2) Michaels deserved bigger build and a better send off considering the send offs that Flair and Trish got, unless of course he wanted it that way somewhat low key on the biggest stage of them all taking his bow. I thought the finish to the match sucked too, with Flair vs HBK it was spot on, but it didn't suit Michaels in my opinion - maybe a better thing would have been some kind of set piece sick bump type thing followed up by a tombstone finish after Michaels is still twitching trying to fight but body can't do it and Taker tombstones him to hell anyways and gets the inconsequential three count after the fact - then give Michaels a Ric Flair type send off on Raw the next day which I still hope they do as he deserves it too. Obviously HBK is straight in the HOF next year and deservedly so!

 

I liked this year's match more than last years because a small part of me thought Michaels might pull it off at certain points in the match, where as last year I expected Taker to win. I really wanted the WWE not to drop the ball on this, but it's most likely not the end of HBK, regardless of the match stipulation. You know how the E likes to break their stipulations like that.

[Gabbo]

Tried TNA; it's shockingly bad. Big fan of MMA, truth be told that's probably replaced the WWE and filled the combat shaped void in my brain.

 

You seem to imply this match is being overhyped because it's was Michaels' last. The fact it was his last lend so much more to the proceedings, it gave the match an emotional gravitas that the first lacked. The first was a clear, 'I'm good enough to beat the streak because I'm the best' type of match, this match was 'If I can't beat you - I'm nothing'. Michaels and the mood of the match shifted from a desire to beat Taker's streak to feed his ego, to a much deeper necessity to end the streak, reducing 25 years of work and hurt to nothing. This is all that mattered.

 

As I said, this had a story, with the lack of respect HBK showed Taker in using the 'throat slit' action, before an all out brawl that seemed to garner HBK respect from the Deadman, before HBK became the architect of his own downfall, clinging to Taker in order to repeat the throat-slit and seal his fate.

 

The first was a technical masterpiece in terms of psychology, in somewhat arbitrary circumstances. The match derived from an ego trip attacking the seemingly unbeatable. This match had a story going into it, no superego, just an animalistic sense of personal pride. Honestly, I thought the first was better all through the match, until the final bell. Then it all sunk in, I realised what I just watched and how much it meant to everyone. After the final bell last year it was 'oh well he gave it his best shot, onwards and upwards'.

 

Without a story, wrestling means very little.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Tried TNA; it's shockingly bad. Big fan of MMA, truth be told that's probably replaced the WWE and filled the combat shaped void in my brain.

 

You seem to imply this match is being overhyped because it's was Michaels' last. The fact it was his last lend so much more to the proceedings, it gave the match an emotional gravitas that the first lacked. The first was a clear, 'I'm good enough to beat the streak because I'm the best' type of match, this match was 'If I can't beat you - I'm nothing'. Michaels and the mood of the match shifted from a desire to beat Taker's streak to feed his ego, to a much deeper necessity to end the streak, reducing 25 years of work and hurt to nothing. This is all that mattered.

 

As I said, this had a story, with the lack of respect HBK showed Taker in using the 'throat slit' action, before an all out brawl that seemed to garner HBK respect from the Deadman, before HBK became the architect of his own downfall, clinging to Taker in order to repeat the throat-slit and seal his fate.

 

The first was a technical masterpiece in terms of psychology, in somewhat arbitrary circumstances. The match derived from an ego trip attacking the seemingly unbeatable. This match had a story going into it, no superego, just an animalistic sense of personal pride. Honestly, I thought the first was better all through the match, until the final bell. Then it all sunk in, I realised what I just watched and how much it meant to everyone. After the final bell last year it was 'oh well he gave it his best shot, onwards and upwards'.

 

Without a story, wrestling means very little.

 

One of the best posts I've read in a while, to be honest. I related a lot to what you wrote here. I too transitioned to MMA from WWE after it became to predictable, and I too am considering closing the door on pro wrestling(aside from a bit of ROH here and there).

[Self]

I liked this year's match more than last years because a small part of me thought Michaels might pull it off at certain points in the match, where as last year I expected Taker to win.

 

I actually had "Woah Shawn's actually going to do it" thoughts during both matches, so kudos to them for that. My problem was that last year, the ROH-style one-billion kick-outs were unexpected. This time, they were par for the course. They did the Undertaker-injury thing, Shawn did some submissions, they changed a few spots around, but all in all it was too similar to last year's for me. A good sequel presents a new slant on things. This did not. 4-star match though.

[Undertaker666]

Brief thoughts:

 

- John Morrison And R-Truth Vs. ShowMiz

 

Not nearly good enough to be the opening (Wrestlemania) match.

 

- Randy Orton Vs. Cody Rhodes Vs. Ted DiBiase

 

The problem with these matches is that I find it hard to suspend my disbelief that two people can't beat the snot out of one person. We've all seen the Face vs two Heels in the past and then the Heels squabble over who gets the pinfall/submission. Lazy booking.

In my opinion, Ted DiBiase could be a huge star and I thought this would be his launch pad. Sadly not.

 

- Ten Man Money In The Bank Ladder Match

 

Not sure where all the hate is coming from for this match. I thought it was good, typical MITB ladder matchy stuff going on and a laughter moment watching Kofi use the ladders as stilts... although Swagger taking forever to unhook the briefcase was painful to watch... as was Swagger actually getting the win.

 

- Triple H Vs. Sheamus

 

Everything was OK here, nothing to write home about though.

 

- Rey Mysterio Vs. CM Punk

 

Rey wins. Meh. I've seen small people beat (much) larger people in MMA fights, but I still can't believe in Rey Mysterio considering he's knee-high to a midget.

 

- Bret Hart Vs. Vince McMahon

 

I wasn't expecting a classic but, as has been said, poorly booked. There were times when Bret hit Vince with the chair and it looked like Vince wasn't expecting it/fearing for his life. (the mini-crowbar segment was terrible)

I'm glad Bret got one final Wrestlemania moment (love the Hitman) but it went on waaaaaaay too long and Bret's main problem was balance. (obviously not his fault though)

 

- Chris Jericho © Vs. Edge

 

Still not seeing what everyone else sees in Edge. I'll admit Edge can put on a decent match but this was below par for what I was expecting.

 

- 10-Diva Tag Team Match

 

Awful. Just awful. Not only that, Vickie Guerrero actually got a pop (unless my ears were deceiving me) when she did the Eddie tribute while on the top turnbuckle.

 

- Batista © Vs. John Cena

 

Considering the two people involved, I thought it was quite good. When Cena almost launched Batista out of the stadium with the FU (it's not the "Attitude Adjustment", WWE) I almost smiled.

 

- Shawn Michaels Vs. The Undertaker

 

Great. Not as good as last year, but still the match of the night.

[BurningHamster]

On another note, the WWE camera work was unusually bad last night. Woof. And the announcers were god awful. Jim Ross meant so much to the credibility of the E.

 

Actually I think the camera work was solid but the vision mixer screwed up a number of times by going to the wrong camera, including once during Taker/Michaels when it seemingly went to a shot of nothing. (sorry to be pedantic, cameraman here)

 

I agree about the announcers though, Michael Cole just isn't very good and while I find Jim Ross boring when you have to listen to him talk about high school football careers every week he is the kind of guy who knows how to add gravity to major events and really put them over.

 

That aside, I am surprised at how negative a lot of the feedback for the show was. I personally think it was a good show, not the best wrestlemania ever but definitely above average and I would say best in the last 5 years or so.

 

America the beautiful sung by generic black woman I never heard of sucked but I liked the hokey imagery and I think the whole atmosphere with the jets, the fireworks etc made the show feel pretty epic. The crowd wasn't the best and I think the open stadium effected the sound a bit but what can ya do?

 

The opening tag match got things off to a nice start, fast paced, Morrison in slow mo with fireworks behind him was a cool visual. There were a few nice spots and this was perfectly alright for a short "warm up the crowd" type of opener.

 

Three way was decent (short of Lawler's confusion over the rules) and Orton has gotten really good while I was avoiding him because he used to suck. DiBiase Jr and Cody Rhodes are both barely a step above David Flair on the awful children of awesome wrestlers list though.

 

MITB Ladder match was fun, some nice spots, the ladder stilts spot looked pretty goofy but at least it was something different and creative. Jack Swagger doesn't impress me much but I enjoyed the match plenty.

 

Triple H against Sheamus was what I expected. I'm not really a fan of generic WWE heavyweight wrestling so this was probably the least exciting match for me.

 

CM Punk against Rey was good. CM Punk is the king at the moment, accusing 70000 people of being on hallucinogenic drugs making them think Rey was a super hero? Superb. GI Joe trunks? Doubly superb. Rey's Avatar outfit was mad goofy though and not sure what happened with his entrance.

 

Hart against McMahon is the one match I can see people being disappointed the most by. I understand why it was done like that, because I really don't think Hart is in good enough condition to wrestle a full length physical match and take bumps but McMahon buying the Hart Family was pretty stupid. I have to admit McMahon taking a Hart Attack was good though and the chairshots, dear lord the chairshots.

 

Jericho against Edge. Pretty good match, everything made sense and I still like Jericho. Plus the post match spear off the announce table was good times.

 

Diva Tag Match was perfectly fine for what it was. Bunch of chicks hitting the only spots they know how to do then getting the hell out of the ring plus at this point in the show it was nice to have a nice, short match to break up the longer segments.

 

Batista against Cena was pretty solid. The mixed crowd reaction maybe hurt this one a bit since there were a fair few obviously anti-Cena people. I've never been a Batista fan and probably never will be but this match was better than it should have been.

 

HBK against Undertaker was pretty awesome. Taker's leg seemed to slow things down and there was perhaps less spots than last year and I do think the multiple Sweet Chins and Tombstones could have been cut down a bit but damn. The epic vibe of the match, the intensity, the moonsault onto the table. Good stuff.

 

Plus Mean Gene in a dress, Inoki, Mad Dog Vachon spazzing out in a wheelchair, WWE getting some stiffness and intensity going which has been sorely lacking for years now. Seriously, If you couldn't enjoy that show then maybe it's time to take a break from watching wrestling or get into the indies or something.

[Hyde Hill]

Reportedly Rey's entrance got botched he was supposed to be catapulted by an elevator on to the stage but it malfunctioned so he climbed out of the hole. Cameramen yeah it was not just their fault also production snafu's. On enjoyment it was decent but it wasn't great, enjoyed 24 a hell of a lot more and in some respects even 25 despite the lackluster main.

[Undertaker666]

Three way was decent (short of Lawler's confusion over the rules)

 

Glad i'm not the only one who noticed that. Triple-threat, not a three-way dance! He said it at least twice too.

 

That also brings me to Michael Cole: "Twist of Fate off the top of the ladder"... ummmm... Christian gave Matt Hardy a reverse DDT off the ladder. Do I believe my eyes or what Michael Cole tells me.

 

Michael Cole has no place being the lead announcer for any event, let alone Wrestlemania.

 

Random Michael Cole bashing:"I've NEVER seen Batista/Cena go to the top rope before!"... even though he called it the last time they did it.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Just had to share this, from another forum:

 

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ccuudl.png

 

[Hyde Hill]

That man needs a fishstick bad lolz.

[PeterHilton]

HAHA..Swagger was tremendous!

[BurningHamster]

That man needs a fishstick bad lolz.

 

Haha what was that sign about? Purely random or is there some fishstick connection I am unaware of?

[RingofHonorGuard]

Just had to share this, from another forum:

 

http://i39.tinypic.com/2ccuudl.png

 

 

Batista says "I CAN HAZ CHEEZBRGR?"

[Hyde Hill]

Haha what was that sign about? Purely random or is there some fishstick connection I am unaware of?

 

No idea but it was a nice sign. Not as good as Triple H Fears Divorce though.

[jjohns44]

Someone I know who watches wrestling said that of 'The Legacy' they preferred Ted Dibiase over Cody Rhodes and it had me wondering if there were others who may feel that way. I myself do like Ted.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Someone I know who watches wrestling said that of 'The Legacy' they preferred Ted Dibiase over Cody Rhodes and it had me wondering if there were others who may feel that way. I myself do like Ted.

 

I'll say this... Cody Rhodes is skinny, and to be quite honest, not something you would look at as having star quality in his face. However, I think he has the ability to shine on the microphone if he practices, and I think that's going to get him over in the long run.

 

Ted Dibiase is a future star, and he's always been ahead of Rhodes for that reason.

 

Look at it like this: Edge and Christian... Edge is/was considered the star of the team by a lot of people. It's the same way with Legacy. The same way it was with the Rockers. Occasionally you have teams that produce a great singles star.

 

Dibiase will be a US or IC champion by years end, and most likely a world champion by the end of next year. Cody Rhodes will flounder around for a while, kind of like Jack Swagger and MVP did in the US title scene.

[ampulator]

Someone I know who watches wrestling said that of 'The Legacy' they preferred Ted Dibiase over Cody Rhodes and it had me wondering if there were others who may feel that way. I myself do like Ted.

The irony of Ted Dibiase and Cody Rhodes is each only has a bit of what the WWE wants, not the total package.

 

In terms of looks, Ted Dibiase has the right size and height, but Cody has the better body. In terms of charisma and mic skills, Cody has more, but in terms of having the ring skills that WWE desires, Ted Dibiase fits the bill better. Ted has better fundamentals, but Cody has better psychology, flashiness, and sells better. Cody looks like a kid, but sounds a like a man, and Ted looks a man, but sounds like a kid.

 

Seriously, if there was a person that had the good qualities of each, they would moonpush that person. As it stands, Dibiase needs to get more comfortable with the mic (he sounds so whiny when he's talking), and he needs to add a bit pizzaz and use a bit more psychology.

 

I think both would make decent midcarders, but not much more than that. Certainly, I hate to say this, they are currently able to match either of their father's level.

[MattitudeV2]

I'm so happy that Bret is giving his niece,nephew and so called protege a rub as The Hart Dynasty can give ShoMiz a run for their money!!!