The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[The Informant]

Starrcade was always hyped as their Wrestlemania but they never presented it that way. Exactly how many times did Starrcade have the biggest match of the year or the biggest storyline of the year? Usually it was just filled with gimmicks like the triangle match and the tag team crap, etc.

[jwt13]

Starrcade was always hyped as their Wrestlemania but they never presented it that way. Exactly how many times did Starrcade have the biggest match of the year or the biggest storyline of the year? Usually it was just filled with gimmicks like the triangle match and the tag team crap, etc.

 

Sting/Hogan 97 nuff said

[The Informant]

Koloff vs. Flair, Garvin vs. Flair, two Battlebowls, Hogan vs. Piper without the title on the line.

 

Nuff Said

[PoisonedSuperman]

battlebowls were awesome!

[The Informant]

Not biggest show of the year main event awesome.

[Candyman]

Sting/Hogan 97 nuff said

 

Did you really just post this? One match = every main event was great and it was their Wrestlemania?

[SaySo]

Brutus Beefcake and Bam Bam Bigelow got something in common then (e.g. Starrcade 94 or 95 and WM 11)

[TakerNGN74]

Just remember that in 1994 at Starcade which was supposed to be WCW's Version of Wrestlemania the main event was Hulk Hogan vs. The Butcher for the World Title it can't get any more epic than that. Just kidding that match should have never happened at least not at a Starcade.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Oh look, Cena turned the Nexus against Barrett. How surprising.

[March]

The Cena/Nexus storyline.. so disappointing..

[angeldelayette]

Starrcade was always hyped as their Wrestlemania but they never presented it that way. Exactly how many times did Starrcade have the biggest match of the year or the biggest storyline of the year? Usually it was just filled with gimmicks like the triangle match and the tag team crap, etc.

 

Ric Flair/Harley Race at the first Starrcade.

Ricky Steamboat and Jay Youngblood/Briscos at first Starrcade.

Roddy Piper/Greg Valentine in a Dog Collar match at the first Starrcade.

Ric Flair/Dusty Rhodes at the next two Starrcades.

The Ric Flair/Nikita Koloff match was originally scheduled to be Ric Flair/Magnum T.A. until Magnum got injured in the car accident.

Midnight Express vs. Original Midnight Express in 1988.

 

Need I go on?

[Stennick]

Ric Flair/Harley Race at the first Starrcade.

Ricky Steamboat and Jay Youngblood/Briscos at first Starrcade.

Roddy Piper/Greg Valentine in a Dog Collar match at the first Starrcade.

Ric Flair/Dusty Rhodes at the next two Starrcades.

The Ric Flair/Nikita Koloff match was originally scheduled to be Ric Flair/Magnum T.A. until Magnum got injured in the car accident.

Midnight Express vs. Original Midnight Express in 1988.

 

Need I go on?

 

You named off three matches from ONE Starrcade. You mentioned matches from four different Starrcades when there was how many?

 

You still didn't justify the BattleBowls he mentioned which I agree were awful and so what if Magnum got hurt there were a hundred baby faces gunning for Ric Flair and the Horsemen they could have used. If memory serves the fans actually cheer for Flair which was not the point.

 

Starrcade is looked upon with fond memories but most years it was pretty dreadful. Wasn't it 1996 or 97 the heels won every match but the main event?

[Hitman23]

IMO Starrcade was at an early disadvantage with the WWF having every huge star except for Flair,Rhode,Sting, and Race I enjoyed Starrcade sometimes more than wrestlemania wasn't there a mania headlined by a Piper/Mr. T boxing match?

[angeldelayette]

You named off three matches from ONE Starrcade. You mentioned matches from four different Starrcades when there was how many?

 

You still didn't justify the BattleBowls he mentioned which I agree were awful and so what if Magnum got hurt there were a hundred baby faces gunning for Ric Flair and the Horsemen they could have used. If memory serves the fans actually cheer for Flair which was not the point.

 

Starrcade is looked upon with fond memories but most years it was pretty dreadful. Wasn't it 1996 or 97 the heels won every match but the main event?

 

The Battlebowls were a creation of Dusty Rhodes and that particular pay-per-view wasn't the best. But at the same time it served its purpose in setting up the Sting/Lex Luger match that wasn't ready to go on at that particular moment.

 

And since I didn't mention enough different Starrcades, let's go with:

 

Starrcade 1989 which had the Ironman Tournament and some great matches such as the Road Warriors against the Steiner Brothers and Ric Flair vs. Sting.

 

Starrcade 1992 had Battlebowl but it also had a great Sting/Big Van Vader match for the King of Cable Trophy and Shane Douglas and Ricky Steamboat defeating Barry Windham and Flyin' Brian in a pretty good match.

 

Starrcade 1993 goes without saying in my opinion. Ric Flair versus Big Van Vader for the WCW World title with Harley Race in Vader's corner and Ric Flair's career on the line in his "hometown." It also had a very good Steve Austin/Dustin Rhodes 2 out of 3 falls match and a very good Lord Steven Regal/Ricky Steamboat match that went to a draw.

 

Starrcade 1995 was the WCW/NJPW joint pay-per-view. There were some pretty decent matches there IIRC.

 

Back in the day I thought that the Piper/Hogan match at Starrcade 1996 was enjoyable but I enjoy the nostalgia. Also, for the ones who get upset because the title was not on the line, Piper's interviews state that he was just coming to beat Hogan. He stated that he didn't represent WCW or anything of the sort. So it makes sense that it was a non title match.

 

Starrcade 1998 was major because it gave Bill Goldberg his first loss in the ring. People can argue about who he lost to or how but it was pretty special regardless.

[Kovic]

I don't write here often and usually I write only in TEW related issues, but the bashing of the Nexus storyline is really getting on my nerves. In this storyline WWE has offered wrestling fans what they have asking for long time. They have made the Nexus big group of guys, but still not NWO-type of cluster****. The Nexus have not been overly dominant, but still able to dominate quite often with their superior numbers. That way they can stay dangerous but still vulnerable.

This storyline has now also lasted for over six months and looks like it will be lasting probably until Wrestlemania. It has been build quite slowly, but still it has not got boring with too much slowness. And lastly about the "how predictable"-thing. I would like to hear how would you solve these kinds of situations without being predictable. And even it looked like Nexus is turning on Barrett, I see the situation only as way to get Cena back to the roster and moving the storyline forward. It really doesn't mean The Nexus would break up next week.

 

And sorry if there is some language errors, I'm not a native english speaker.

[Hulkamaniac85]

Thanks for your post Kovic! I agree, I think the Nexus/Cena Storyline has actually been quite good. There's been moments when it hasn't lived up to the hype and hopes of people, but overall i would say its been pretty dang good. I've actually been really entertained by Raw lately overall. Not saying smackdown has been bad, i just haven't really gotten to watch much of Smackdown, And i would have to say its been pretty far off the predictability level of most wrestling storylines. I've made my predictions on things and have been totally off, as have others on these forums. Yeah, we all know in the end, Cena is gonna win out over Nexus (Good guy always beats the bad guy) and that's how it should be, and that's not the point of the storyline. The point of it is the journey, and for the most part the journey has been enjoyable. Anyways, that's my 2 cents on it. haha

 

PS: It is late and if i sound like im rambling, I probably am haha

[Linsolv]

Not to sound like I'm jumping on the bandwagon, but I have to make a similar point. First, Nexus hasn't been THAT predictable, but there's only so many ways it can go. Secondly, when you try to go straight for the jugular on "unpredictability," you'll find it takes about 3 shows to reach the limits of making any sense with what you're doing.

 

Then, as my time in the TNA thread told me back when Hogan/Bischoff took over, the fans start to get mad about your storylines being non-sequiter, confused, and chaotic. I'd say that there have been many times WWE was TOO predictable with Cena, like his I Quit match with Orton, where I was watching the match thinking they couldn't POSSIBLY be so predictable as to just have Cena win all I Quit matches and as usual Super Cena beat Orton after Orton beat on Cena for 45 minutes, and then Cena gets one submission hold on, once. But it's not the case here, IMO.

[PeterHilton]

I don't write here often and usually I write only in TEW related issues, but the bashing of the Nexus storyline is really getting on my nerves. In this storyline WWE has offered wrestling fans what they have asking for long time. They have made the Nexus big group of guys, but still not NWO-type of cluster****. The Nexus have not been overly dominant, but still able to dominate quite often with their superior numbers. That way they can stay dangerous but still vulnerable.

This storyline has now also lasted for over six months and looks like it will be lasting probably until Wrestlemania. It has been build quite slowly, but still it has not got boring with too much slowness. And lastly about the "how predictable"-thing. I would like to hear how would you solve these kinds of situations without being predictable. And even it looked like Nexus is turning on Barrett, I see the situation only as way to get Cena back to the roster and moving the storyline forward. It really doesn't mean The Nexus would break up next week.

 

And sorry if there is some language errors, I'm not a native english speaker.

 

Thanks for your post Kovic! I agree, I think the Nexus/Cena Storyline has actually been quite good. There's been moments when it hasn't lived up to the hype and hopes of people, but overall i would say its been pretty dang good. I've actually been really entertained by Raw lately overall. Not saying smackdown has been bad, i just haven't really gotten to watch much of Smackdown, And i would have to say its been pretty far off the predictability level of most wrestling storylines. I've made my predictions on things and have been totally off, as have others on these forums. Yeah, we all know in the end, Cena is gonna win out over Nexus (Good guy always beats the bad guy) and that's how it should be, and that's not the point of the storyline. The point of it is the journey, and for the most part the journey has been enjoyable. Anyways, that's my 2 cents on it. haha

 

PS: It is late and if i sound like im rambling, I probably am haha

 

Not to sound like I'm jumping on the bandwagon, but I have to make a similar point. First, Nexus hasn't been THAT predictable, but there's only so many ways it can go. Secondly, when you try to go straight for the jugular on "unpredictability," you'll find it takes about 3 shows to reach the limits of making any sense with what you're doing.

 

Then, as my time in the TNA thread told me back when Hogan/Bischoff took over, the fans start to get mad about your storylines being non-sequiter, confused, and chaotic. I'd say that there have been many times WWE was TOO predictable with Cena, like his I Quit match with Orton, where I was watching the match thinking they couldn't POSSIBLY be so predictable as to just have Cena win all I Quit matches and as usual Super Cena beat Orton after Orton beat on Cena for 45 minutes, and then Cena gets one submission hold on, once. But it's not the case here, IMO.

 

I don't think the 'predictable' thing would be my primary complaint. I' say it just hasn't been written or paced all that well.

 

Firstly, I'd disagree that it hasn't been 'boring with its slowness.' The storyline has been even more repetitive imo than even the Cena/Orton feud. Just the same segment...over and over and OVER and six months into it the only person who's benefited has been Wade Barrett since everyone else in the nexus just seems to stand around in the background.

 

Secondly, there haven't been any real surprises. People say retarded things like "well everything is predictable because all ending have been tried before" which is technically true but a complete cop-out.

 

When the Nexus formed, that was surprising. When they turned as a group, that was surprising. it's not that we've never seen it before, it's that it was done in an unexpected moment. Since then, at every major turning point of the story, they've done the most obviously predictable and uninsteresting thing. Does that make it bad? No. But it does make it a drag to watch.

 

Cena allowed himself to be fired in order to preserve his 'goody two shoes' way of existence. Was it predictable? Yes. But if he'd turned heel or simply made the three count to save his job would that have been predictable as well? Yes, absolutely

 

But which was the more interesting? Cena as a heel which he hast done for most of the decade or Cena doing the exact same thing he's done for the last 5 years?

 

Finally..and the best example is the most recent..the odd pacing. IMO they saved the 'Cena gets fired twist' when Cena gave that promo where he led the crowd in cheers against him. Great stuff. Great emotion. And then he just shows up on RAW the very next week??? Why? Why not have him off TV for a few weeks, with the Nexus members crowing about it and scoring wins over big names using heelish tactics? And then bring him back slowly..mysterious attacks in the backstage area, odd messages, subtlety...before he just waltzes in the ring and forces a situation where he fights for his WWE career?

 

Why drag your feet for six months and then blow your load all at once right at the very end, which only kills off all the dram you spent six months building?

 

Nexus was a great storyline at the beginning, but now it's just repetitive, dull, and overly obvious.

[Hive]

Finally..and the best example is the most recent..the odd pacing. IMO they saved the 'Cena gets fired twist' when Cena gave that promo where he led the crowd in cheers against him. Great stuff. Great emotion. And then he just shows up on RAW the very next week??? Why? Why not have him off TV for a few weeks, with the Nexus members crowing about it and scoring wins over big names using heelish tactics? And then bring him back slowly..mysterious attacks in the backstage area, odd messages, subtlety...before he just waltzes in the ring and forces a situation where he fights for his WWE career?

 

Had this happened during the 90's, they would have done this. But these days, there doesn't seem to be any patience in wrestling... it all has to happen with an insane pace. The fact that the Nexus storyline has even been around this long is a huge shocker to me. I would have expected Barrett to have both won and lost the title again months ago.

[March]

My beef is with Cena being fired, and then the repurcussions of that playing out terribly. Exactly as PeterHilton said, the emotional farewell speech... it was set up great there, and yet Cena goes nowhere, and they Nexus no chance of getting over at Cena's expense. At the least they could give them a few weeks to revel in Cena's fate... nope.. two weeks into it and they're already setting up Cena's return to WWE... when he never really left! Ugh.

[Candyman]

Finally..and the best example is the most recent..the odd pacing. IMO they saved the 'Cena gets fired twist' when Cena gave that promo where he led the crowd in cheers against him. Great stuff. Great emotion. And then he just shows up on RAW the very next week??? Why? Why not have him off TV for a few weeks, with the Nexus members crowing about it and scoring wins over big names using heelish tactics? And then bring him back slowly..mysterious attacks in the backstage area, odd messages, subtlety...before he just waltzes in the ring and forces a situation where he fights for his WWE career?

 

Because taking him off TV for even one week would be completely idiotic. The #1 star in the top storyline going...you DO NOT take him off TV, not for a second. The only thing I would've changed is not have Cena give his huge good bye speech when he wasn't really leaving at all. That was a great promo, don't get me wrong, but he didn't actually leave.

 

And without going into a huge rant, I just have to say that a huge pet peeve of mine is people criticizing storylines, talking about the things that should've been done differently, before they're even remotely close to finishing. Let's be honest here, they've done a great job with the Nexus storyline so far. They deserve the benefit of the doubt to let it play out and then make a judgement on it. I'm sure there's a reason Cena is getting rehired so soon, and you're going to feel pretty silly if it turns out what they planned is a lot better than what you suggested.

[ampulator]

PeterHilton, you and me are both must be exact opposites of each other.

 

I feel, for once, WWE is at least TRYING to make this work, at least, within their own limitations. There are simply some things they can't do, and that is have Cena having TOO much time off. I can understand that. At least this storyline isn't hacknyed or lazy like their usual work. They might be bringing back Cena too soon, but they have good reasons.

 

I actually find even what they are doing is obvious, and not exactly the most interesting... they are at least trying, which is a lot more than they have in past years. I mean, Cena-Orton or Cena-Batista several times... CONSECUTIVELY. Now that just was just lazy. They are actually building Cena/Barrett.

[PeterHilton]

Because taking him off TV for even one week would be completely idiotic. The #1 star in the top storyline going...you DO NOT take him off TV, not for a second. The only thing I would've changed is not have Cena give his huge good bye speech when he wasn't really leaving at all. That was a great promo, don't get me wrong, but he didn't actually leave.

 

Listen..I'm one of the biggest proponents on the board of doing what's best for business. I get that. But you said the same thing I did: why deliver that kind of promo if all you're going to do is reappear a week later?

 

And without going into a huge rant, I just have to say that a huge pet peeve of mine is people criticizing storylines, talking about the things that should've been done differently, before they're even remotely close to finishing. Let's be honest here, they've done a great job with the Nexus storyline so far. They deserve the benefit of the doubt to let it play out and then make a judgement on it. I'm sure there's a reason Cena is getting rehired so soon, and you're going to feel pretty silly if it turns out what they planned is a lot better than what you suggested.

 

I don't actually think they've done 'a great job' I think it's been really good -especially at first - with spots of really mediocre.

 

And it's episodic television with a storyline that's lasted six months or so...exactly how are we supposed to discuss it if it hasn't run it's course yet? Did it upset you that people complained about Lost during the third season?

[Hyde Hill]

If you can't not have him be on the show at least do it Sting style or like Hilton suggested slow escalation style. Nexus hasn't been bad but hasn't been great either. Also where was the period of Nexus trying to prevent the attacks and sometimes succeeding until Cena found a new way etc. It's like the writers went: "Damn Rumble and Mania and Trips return coming up better hurry this along". Some story parts where rushed or just skipped and others where dragged out.

 

Chris Kreski is turning in his grave.

[PeterHilton]

I feel, for once, WWE is at least TRYING to make this work, at least, within their own limitations. There are simply some things they can't do, and that is have Cena having TOO much time off. I can understand that. At least this storyline isn't hacknyed or lazy like their usual work. They might be bringing back Cena too soon, but they have good reasons.

 

 

He didn't get ANY time away. ANY.

 

For months one of the basic components of the storyline was "Cena has to do what he's ordered to do by Barrett or it will cost him his career" with the conflict being "what would Cena do if following Nexus meant he had to betray his own beliefs???"

 

Turns out..it really wasn't that big a deal. Because he just said "eff it" got himself fired and then kept on coming to the arena anyway with no real repercussions.

 

If that was going to be the case, it makes all those weeks of Cena worrying about his decision fairly pointless.