The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[GatorBait19]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Edge didn't have much in the way of injuries until about 5 years into his WWE career, by which time he'd been about a ten thousand time tag team champion, Intercontinental champion, King of the Ring, etc. Meanwhile Kennedy had poorly timed injuries that kept him from ever gaining any momentum, and came back from a year long lay-off looking sloppy and with an attitude.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> not only that Kennedy would get hurt right as a push was about to hit. I believe also he had a couple issues with the wellness policy which resulted (along with his injuries) lead to him being released.</p><p> </p><p> Edge was in line for a good push when he got hurt and when he came back they put him in a feud with Orton I believe. It wasn't until Edge switched to his heel gimmick in which we saw him start to win HW titles.</p>

[Candyman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I've heard that WWE actually does their storylines far in advance (probably knows the next six PPV's already, or at least 90% of). So when someone all the sudden is gone, or something happens differently, they have to think on their feet, and try to get back into the same "program" as before, so as to not screw up other storylines that intersync with them, etc. At least that's my thinking.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Exactly. I always laugh when people complain about the WWE booking week to week, when it's quite clear that that's not the case. You can see the long term vision they have when you look back on things. There is SO much foreshadowing in their writing, if you actually look for it. But nobody wants to do that. They want to look at last week's show and complain about how stupid it was and convince themselves they could do better because it makes them feel better.</p><p> </p><p> And you're right about how they struggle when they have to change things on the fly. Rather than change every plan for every wrestler on the roster, they try to fix things with as little collateral damage as possible. It's not an easy thing to do, and it's rarely going to be seamless. And, unfortunately, they do miss opportunities sometimes(like you mentioned with Hardcore Holly and Joey Mercury). But they have to make an on the fly decision about whether or not Hardcore Holly's really a long term viable headliner or if it's temporary. And, if it's temporary, is it really worth rewriting everything to give him a few weeks in the spotlight? (IMO, they made the wrong choice both with Holly and Mercury, but I can understand why they did what they did.)</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="eayragt" data-cite="eayragt" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I think we need to give WWE the chance on this one after watching Smackdown.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Exactly. This is what I tried to say as soon as I heard about the title change. Of course, nobody wants to listen to reason, but it's stupid to criticize a move when you don't understand why they did it - it's even more stupid when you don't even know the full facts of what they did. (nobody knew about how they were going to focus on Christian's dream being shattered) It's just stupid. There's no other way to put it. Let's be honest here, the WWE gets it right much more often than they get it wrong. They've earned the benefit of the doubt. </p><p> </p><p> JR had a great take on the situation in his blog: "Christian and Randy Orton had a great, TV match on Smackdown but I don't buy into the 'tragedy' that some fans flooded us with here on our site due to Christian losing the World Title. It isn't as if the loss ended Christian's career and who's to say that 'Captain Charisma' won't regain the title at a later date? <strong>Those that truly understand the nature of the genre have a different mindset than those who are knee jerking themselves silly.</strong>"</p>

[djthefunkchris]

<p>/nod. I agree with alot of what you said. I've been watching long enough to see things come full circle, see things get used again, see where they were going and how they picked it back up after a real life event caused it to be put on the backburner for a while, etc.</p><p> </p><p>

Example: I was here when everyone said Umaga was horrible. I was also around when everyone started digging him.</p><p> </p><p>

I think what causes most of the disruption about things, is patience... Everyone wants things to be a certain way yesturday, without taking into consideration how long it really takes to get someone over. Each show has around what.... 60 to 64 shows a year to highlight someone. That's just over two months worth of TV a year. IF they didn't have the brands, this would be even more difficult, because 1: You can't show everyone every show. And TWO, To keep people watching (ratings) there are some you MUST SHOW as much as possible. SO your going to see alot of John Cena and Randy Orton, while other's take a backseat as far as show time. This HAS to happen. </p><p> </p><p>

The capitals are to emphasize, not yell (just re-reading, looks like I'm yelling, lol). Someone mentioned Drew... I must have missed the PPV they were talking about, but I seen two times I thought he looked great, but both times ended up saying something later that kind of ruined it... One was when he nailed R Truth as soon as Truth entered the ring, and yelled "That's what's up!" However, at the end of the match he said something that kind of ruined the whole thing for me (and I can't remember exactly what it was, but just normal bragging somehow just made him look alot less of a threat then he did just before). Another time was when R Truth was talking about how he was going to be ready next time he entered the ring, but in the middle got jumped by Drew again (I actually laughed both times, thought it was awesome). Then he did his little "intense look" thing, then started talking. It just ruins it for me. Makes him look like a broadway actor that can't act to me. Not as much his words, but the over the top look he gives while saying them. It's just not believable. He's one of the people I think WWE are just determined to make work no matter what, but I don't think I will ever be able to get past the stuff I just mentioned.</p><p> </p><p>

Don't get me wrong, I don't think they have to be able to have great promo's... Fact is a person that can't deliver a promo very well, that is genuinely mic shy, has their own kind of charisma reguarding that...> Lashley for example. Everyone here kept putting down him promo's more then anything else (those that were putting him down anyways). The thing is, it worked for him. Most everyone I know would say to me "Now this guy is good, He doesn't talk much but he can kick butt!" They don't say "He can't give a good promo", ha. They find it better that he's more action then talk (at the time). This can work for people, and I think Holly would have been one of them to be able to do that.</p><p> </p><p>

Anyways, carry on.</p>

[Jaysin]

Finally watched Smackdown.

 

I hope Chavo and Sin Cara get actual time to put on good shows in this feud if that's where its headed. Chavo can make almost anyone look good and the cruiserweight style is something Chavo is fantastic at.

 

Super irritated Christian lost already, but the match was really good. Liked the finish. If Orton could put those kind of performances on regularly I'd support the heck out of him. Unless its just a case of him and Christian having good chemistry.

 

I really wish he'd ditch the retarded monkey looking stuff though.

[BurningHamster]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>retarded monkey looking</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Hold up, what was that about Low Ki?</p>

[lazorbeak]

<p>Suddenly there's a lot of common sense in this thread. Glad we're all over the knee-jerk hyperbole already. The farewell to Edge storyline was over (ADR's not even around any more), and Christian gets plugged into a major storyline with one of the top names in wrestling. And people act like the sky is falling because he lost a match. </p><p> </p><p>

As far as the failure to capitalize when someone is temporarily hot, I see where WWE isn't very good at it, but on the other hand, a guy like Hardcore Holly was perfect in the position he was in. He was a pretty solid hand who served as a gatekeeper for people positioned to move up the card, and that's where a guy with his talent, his look, and his promo skills needed to be. Pushing him beyond that would just expose his weaknesses, the way it did when he moved into the IC title picture, the same way it did when he worked his program with Lesnar, the same way it did for Kofi when he looked awful feuding with Orton after one big night where he looked ready to be a main eventer.</p>

[ampulator]

<p>There's always been common sense in this thread. It's the WWE that doesn't have common sense anymore. People claim that the WWE doesn't have to do the "shock and awe" tactics anymore, yet defend their nonsensical moves. </p><p> </p><p> this isn't JUSt about Christian-it's more of a major crystalization of what's happened before to the WWE before, except as an example that's happened one too big, too many. I'm not saying the WWE can't make dirt turn into gold-they have done it before, on extremely rare occasions (Val Venis or Goldust, anyone?), but most of times they do it have become obviously bad. And besides, I'm sick of giving the WWE the benefit of the doubt-they have already messed up too many times before. This has been the case ever since the Invasion. That was, and the last time, I was ever willing to go into "wait and see" mode. No more.</p><p> </p><p> Look, there were many people in the Attitude Era that could have been main eventers after it ended, and some even DURING it. But no one complains... because the WWF did their best to push them to that level, OR, there was simply not enough spots to push them there. WWF may not have always succeeded pushing these guys to the next level, but at least they tried, and they certainly tried when the iron was hot.</p><p> </p><p> WWE needs to understand that they are working in front of LIVE crowd, and not simply a soap opera. If the crowd gets in the way of your "plans", the crowd should take precedence most of the time. Who the heck wants to see 70000+ Wrestlemania attendees boo your main star? If you can't control who your audience is, and/or if you can't control how your audience reacts, you change what they are reacting against. It's that simple. What they change, it's up to them, but need to remember: they work in front of live crowd.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="djthefunkchris" data-cite="djthefunkchris" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>/nod. I agree with alot of what you said. I've been watching long enough to see things come full circle, see things get used again, see where they were going and how they picked it back up after a real life event caused it to be put on the backburner for a while, etc.<p> </p><p> Example: I was here when everyone said Umaga was horrible. I was also around when everyone started digging him.</p><p> </p><p> I think what causes most of the disruption about things, is patience... Everyone wants things to be a certain way yesturday, without taking into consideration how long it really takes to get someone over. Each show has around what.... 60 to 64 shows a year to highlight someone. That's just over two months worth of TV a year. IF they didn't have the brands, this would be even more difficult, because 1: You can't show everyone every show. And TWO, To keep people watching (ratings) there are some you MUST SHOW as much as possible. SO your going to see alot of John Cena and Randy Orton, while other's take a backseat as far as show time. This HAS to happen. </p><p> </p><p> The capitals are to emphasize, not yell (just re-reading, looks like I'm yelling, lol). Someone mentioned Drew... I must have missed the PPV they were talking about, but I seen two times I thought he looked great, but both times ended up saying something later that kind of ruined it... One was when he nailed R Truth as soon as Truth entered the ring, and yelled "That's what's up!" However, at the end of the match he said something that kind of ruined the whole thing for me (and I can't remember exactly what it was, but just normal bragging somehow just made him look alot less of a threat then he did just before). Another time was when R Truth was talking about how he was going to be ready next time he entered the ring, but in the middle got jumped by Drew again (I actually laughed both times, thought it was awesome). Then he did his little "intense look" thing, then started talking. It just ruins it for me. Makes him look like a broadway actor that can't act to me. Not as much his words, but the over the top look he gives while saying them. It's just not believable. He's one of the people I think WWE are just determined to make work no matter what, but I don't think I will ever be able to get past the stuff I just mentioned.</p><p> </p><p> Don't get me wrong, I don't think they have to be able to have great promo's... Fact is a person that can't deliver a promo very well, that is genuinely mic shy, has their own kind of charisma reguarding that...> Lashley for example. Everyone here kept putting down him promo's more then anything else (those that were putting him down anyways). The thing is, it worked for him. Most everyone I know would say to me "Now this guy is good, He doesn't talk much but he can kick butt!" They don't say "He can't give a good promo", ha. They find it better that he's more action then talk (at the time). This can work for people, and I think Holly would have been one of them to be able to do that.</p><p> </p><p> Anyways, carry on.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> The problem with Drew McIntyre isn't really himself, but the WWE. They needed to adjust their plans to fit McIntyre, rather try to fit McIntyre into their plans. </p><p> </p><p> That's the issue with the WWE these days. They make a plan... then try to force fit a worker into said plan. If it doesn't work, it wasn't the planner's, the plans', or the plannings' fault-it was fault of the wrestler of not fitting the plans. That's just moronic way to book workers. What the WWE should do is fit plans AROUND workers, not workers AROUND plans. Workers, are people, and people don't change quickly. It takes time. but to change a plan, if they choose so, can much more quickly changed. They just refuse to. They believe in their themselves more than their workers. </p><p> </p><p> If you let a worker do his best, one of two things will happen-he will bomb. Or, he will rise to the occasion. It's a zero-sum proposition. If they bomb, then shelve them, or depush them. That's it. If they rise to the occasion, then you need to figure out how to work them to the best of their strengths. A great example this year... is R-Truth. His promo on why he turned on Morrison.... was great midcard promo. He reacted against the crowd, and the crowd reacted against him. It was beautiful. </p><p> </p><p> On the other hand, they give these awkward scripted promos to John Morrison, who end up sound like an idiot, uncomfortable, and really, really out of his element. He doesn't bomb completely, but he doesn't really end up sounding good. WWE's scripting may actually tamper down on a lot of "bombings", but not everyone needs to be scripted to a T. It just ends everyone sounding middle of the road, not that bad, not that good. It's only when you allow to do their best that they rise to the occasion. The Rock's comeback promo was one; so was Cena's response promos. If they let other workers go off a bit, they might get some bombings.... but they also might get some magic. </p><p> </p><p> We will never know, though, because the WWE doesn't let it happen anymore. And that's the way the WWE is now. I hate that's become a reality, but I accept it. It's a terrible reality for anyone, but it is what it is, and the WWE refuses to change.</p>

[djthefunkchris]

Your biggest gripe is still "Should have left the belt on Christian", even after the fact it's become obvious that he's going into a serious storyline by the majority of people here. One that will probably help him MORE then keeping it on him for just a few more days or weeks.

 

Far as the other stuff... The Invasion wasn't supposed to make WCW guys look good in comparison to WWE guys... I mean that part was obvious, that he was going in to bassically turn them into jokes, unless they completely conformed to his "style" or whatever. I don't know how I feel about that really, as I wasn't sitting their wondering if I make all these guys look great, will they end up in another WCW type promotion, making me go head to head again with them. At least by having my guys beat them, I will look like I have the better guys (to casuals).

 

Pluss, alot of the big older names from WCW was exactly what some of the WWE guys needed to get them to that next level.

[ampulator]

Your biggest gripe is still "Should have left the belt on Christian", even after the fact it's become obvious that he's going into a serious storyline by the majority of people here. One that will probably help him MORE then keeping it on him for just a few more days or weeks.

 

Far as the other stuff... The Invasion wasn't supposed to make WCW guys look good in comparison to WWE guys... I mean that part was obvious, that he was going in to bassically turn them into jokes, unless they completely conformed to his "style" or whatever. I don't know how I feel about that really, as I wasn't sitting their wondering if I make all these guys look great, will they end up in another WCW type promotion, making me go head to head again with them. At least by having my guys beat them, I will look like I have the better guys (to casuals).

 

Pluss, alot of the big older names from WCW was exactly what some of the WWE guys needed to get them to that next level.

You see, it's not so much as they need to keep the belt on him. I understand their thought process. I just thought it wsa too quick... even for them. Second, that isn't my biggest gripe with the WWE... trust me when I tell this. My gripe with the WWE is far bigger than Christian not having the belt. I think it's pretty obvious that isn't the biggest gripe. It's only an obvious and clear-cut example of what they are doing wrong. Not in the wrong in the sense you think it is, but certainly wrong in the sense I think it is.

 

I think it's pretty obvious what my gripes of what the WWE are, and it's a lot more bigger than one booking decision.

 

On WCW, I wasn't talking about that, but if you want to get into that... the thing is, some of those SHOULD have been made on the level of the WWE Guys. Obviously, a lot of them definitely weren't. but some of them were.

 

As a whole, of course WcW wasn't on the same level sa the WWF. but on individual basis rather than a group basis, some of their stars were bigger than the WWF stars, and some were as popular as the WWF stars. Certainly not a majority of them. But a good number of them were.

 

I said this before, and I will say it again. If I'm wrong, then it's not issue... but I'm right, that means the WWE is in an inevitable, industry-wide, unrecoverable decline, and that I don't want to be right. I say what I say, because I feel I NEED to do this for everyone, to help them see if there was a way to reverse this. I rather be wrong... in my heart, I want to deny this truth. But I can't. I want to believe nothing is going wrong.... but I can't turn a blind eye. It would so much easier, if I didn't care... but I do. And I must do what I can, before it's too late.

 

The day it's too late is when people agree with me. That's when I know it's become a total reality. Then I failed everyone. And if I'm wrong... I would be the happiest man alive. I just wish that I was.

[lazorbeak]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="ampulator" data-cite="ampulator" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>There's always been common sense in this thread. It's the WWE that doesn't have common sense anymore. People claim that the WWE doesn't have to do the "shock and awe" tactics anymore, yet defend their nonsensical moves. <p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Where were you when memories were being ****-ed by a wrestler losing a wrestling match?</p>

[Adam Ryland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="lazorbeak" data-cite="lazorbeak" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Where were you when memories were being ****-ed by a wrestler losing a wrestling match?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm not sure, but from his last post I think he's either planning to start a new religion, assassinate Vince McMahon, or save a cheerleader - so give the guy a break, he's probably pretty busy with planning and stuff.</p>

[Big Roguey]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm not sure, but from his last post I think he's either planning to start a new religion, assassinate Vince McMahon, or save a cheerleader - so give the guy a break, he's probably pretty busy with planning and stuff.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I see someone watched Heroes <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png"></p>

[TLLK]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Adam Ryland" data-cite="Adam Ryland" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I'm not sure, but from his last post I think he's either planning to start a new religion, assassinate Vince McMahon, or save a cheerleader - so give the guy a break, he's probably pretty busy with planning and stuff.</div></blockquote><p> You, sir, are becoming more and more legendary with every passing day.</p>

[Fantabulous]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="TheLeviticalLawKid3" data-cite="TheLeviticalLawKid3" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>You, sir, are becoming more and more legendary with every passing day.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Careful; you'll get chapped lips with too much kissing up.</p>

[ZMAN]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I said this before, and I will say it again. If I'm wrong, then it's not issue... but I'm right, that means the WWE is in an inevitable, industry-wide, unrecoverable decline, and that I don't want to be right. I say what I say, because I feel I NEED to do this for everyone, to help them see if there was a way to reverse this. I rather be wrong... in my heart, I want to deny this truth. But I can't. I want to believe nothing is going wrong.... but I can't turn a blind eye. It would so much easier, if I didn't care... but I do. And I must do what I can, before it's too late. <p> </p><p> The day it's too late is when people agree with me. That's when I know it's become a total reality. Then I failed everyone. And if I'm wrong... I would be the happiest man alive. I just wish that I was.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> You sound like that crazy religious guy on the sidewalk.</p><p> </p><p> People have been claiming that WWE is on a decline for like the past 8 years. Yet here they are, still standing tall with three television shows. Nothing is really declining, it's just staying the same.</p>

[TLLK]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Fantabulous" data-cite="Fantabulous" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Careful; you'll get chapped lips with too much kissing up.</div></blockquote><p> And I would be kissing up for what? What could I get out of it? Really? </p><p> </p><p> I'm just some guy that has his wrestling game and enjoys it very much. I also am an avid member of his forums for said game, and I think it's cool how much he interacts with his customers. His last few posts on this site have been right on the button and pretty funny.</p><p> </p><p> I love his humor and pop culture references in the game, and I was just showing my appreciation for that and the posts he has on this site. </p><p> </p><p> Not kissing up, not expecting anything...stating my opinion. That's all.</p>

[Zeel1]

Sort of expected it'd be Eric's last week after the ropes debacle.

[PoisonedSuperman]

Truth vs. Cena!!

[Zeel1]

Truth came out without music - I'm guessing they're/he is still making his heel theme...

 

Loving his facial expressions tonight, by the way.

[TracyBrooksFan]

Ron 'The Truth' Killings is the new Loose Cannon

[PoisonedSuperman]

Ron 'The Truth' Killings is the new Loose Cannon

 

The angry black man!!

[Zeel1]

So the Divas title goes to Kelly Kelly, presumably because we needed a face champion for Kharma to beat. Which was precisely why I found putting it on Brie while Kharma was being built up to be so puzzling. Why put it on a heel diva right before the debut of the monster heel diva who will likely be winning the title within a month or so? Just seems kind of silly...

[ampulator]

So the Divas title goes to Kelly Kelly, presumably because we needed a face champion for Kharma to beat. Which was precisely why I found putting it on Brie while Kharma was being built up to be so puzzling. Why put it on a heel diva right before the debut of the monster heel diva who will likely be winning the title within a month or so? Just seems kind of silly...

They should have put it on Nattie, Beth, or Gail.

 

Now we KNOW Kelly is going to get tossed around like a ragdoll. She's athletic, but that's about it.

[Zeel1]

They should have put it on Nattie, Beth, or Gail.

 

Now we KNOW Kelly is going to get tossed around like a ragdoll. She's athletic, but that's about it.

 

I just feel they might as well have kept it on Eve and had Kharma run through her at Over The Limit. Currently, it seems it'll end up being hotshot from Eve to Brie to Kelly to Kharma in about two months... seems unnecessary. Guess it doesn't matter much, just nitpicki-

 

RYDER APPEARANCE!!!

[angeldelayette]

John Cena is the new Dusty Rhodes! He has the Dusty Finish on the WWE Draft AND the Dusty Finish on the match last week against the Miz!