The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Hashasheen]

Cena's the Hogan of this era. As much as people like to use that for a comparison of in-ring skill, it's more relatable in booking. As the top face, they always require an assorted list of rotating heels to beat to stay the top face. This is creatively weak and allows for extensive auto-booking, and means that unless the heels are credible enough against Cena (Orton/Edge), they're unlikely to get a second run with him or stay credible enough not to end up upper/mid carding for the rest of their careers (Umaga, JBL, RVD, Mr. Kennedy, Sheamus, etc...)

 

This is also why I prefer the NWA/WCW style of top heel, where elevation of top faces are much more memorable, can be more credible and maintained as equals, and have a greater deal of creativity in how they're handled (Surfer Sting, Crow Sting, Lex Luger, Goldberg, Dusty Rhodes, etc..). In fact, I'm going to make a thread on this right now.

[ubernoob]

Yup.

 

I re-watched today, and there is a noticeable difference when the titles are lying there side by side on the table.

[Hive]

Batista didn't need Cena to get over, especially not after his Smackdown wars with Taker.

 

Sheamus won one worthwhile match against Cena which most call a fluke and still believe Sheamus was supposed to fall through a table outside the ring and a different ending was to happen.

 

Wade and the entire Nexus were completely buried by Cena after coming in with some serious heat. They proceeded to NEVER accomplish anything except for putting over John Cena.

 

The Miz was never put over by anyone. Everyone made him look like trash in the ring week in and week out despite him being their best hope for a huge heel at the time. His shining moment was winning _because_ of The Rock. Whoopie.

 

Cena did, what, again?

 

I concur.

 

Cena didn't get Batista over, Evolution and Triple H in particular, aided by a Royal Rumble win, did. Batista was way over before doing anything with Cena.

 

If Cena got Sheamus over, then why didn't he stay at the top instead of floating down to midcard status bar occational appearances in the main event? Why is he not a top draw now? Feuding with Cena did very little for Sheamus except for being viewed as more boring than when he entered the feud. I personally felt that he was hotter before the feud than after, but I may be mistaken.

 

Nexus was buried, I don't see there being much to discuss on that note. Barrett was on the brink of getting over before they decided to bury him and shove him down.

 

The Miz got over by himself, because he was awesome (pun intended) on the mic. He was red hot before entering the feud with Cena, and I'll argue that Michael Cole actually did more to get Miz over than Cena did.

[bigtplaystew]

I thought I specifically said in each of those cases he didnt put them over. I actually used those exact words lol.

 

 

I simply stated that I PERSONALLY (meaning for me and my own enjoyment) felt those guys all had some of the best most entertaining periods of time against Cena.

[Jaysin]

After hearing about Triple H being the special guest referee all I can think about is Triple H going into boring heel mode. I know he's been a face for years now, but god I hate heel Triple H.

 

I think it'd be kind of interesting though if Triple H turns heel and pedigrees Punk causing Cena to win the match. It'd be interesting to me if that caused Cena to second guess his win over and over again because of Triple H's help.

 

That or Cena turns heel with Triple H and we have Punk vs establishment.

[ShaunGBD]

Cena turns heel

 

That have been rumor for years, I have hear how they should turn Cena heel for years from fans. With the rumor that someone (Triple H) is scared about the Rock/Cena match and him getting booed them won't turn him heel.

[bigtplaystew]

I always said they'll never turn Cena heel until someone can outsell him in merch. People might think I'm nuts but I'm tellin ya... as it stands right now WWE would lose porbably millions of dollars in a Cena heel turn.

 

Punk has a really great tshirt that is selling really well. It's no where near Cena level... but if they develop this right... by WM28 I wouldnt be shocked if they can finally pull the trigger on something like that.

 

Like I said, it won't happen until they can sell huge amounts of merch without Cena.

[bigtplaystew]

Cena did, what, again?

 

Propel a bunch of former midcarders to main events and made them look pretty good. Booking buried them... not Cena.

[Jaysin]

Propel a bunch of former midcarders to main events and made them look pretty good. Booking buried them... not Cena.

 

Did you actually read Arrows post or just that part?

[Hive]

Propel a bunch of former midcarders to main events and made them look pretty good. Booking buried them... not Cena.

 

By the same logic, one could say that Cena didn't propel any midcarders to main event... booking did.

[bigtplaystew]

That's not logical at all lol.

 

Booking doesn't perform matches.

 

Barrett had barely gotten out of NXT and then a few months later he's holding his own with one of the greatest world champions in the company's history and main eventing TV shows and PPVs. Not only that, but looking BETTER than him on a few occasions.

[Arrows]

That's not logical at all lol.

 

Booking doesn't perform matches.

 

Barrett had barely gotten out of NXT and then a few months later he's holding his own with one of the greatest world champions in the company's history and main eventing TV shows and PPVs. Not only that, but looking BETTER than him on a few occasions.

 

Barrett had Jericho.

 

One of the greatest world champions? No.

 

Main Eventing PPVs? No. He even got robbed of his title shot.

 

Looking better than Cena? Never happened.

[Jaysin]

That's not logical at all lol.

 

Booking doesn't perform matches.

 

Barrett had barely gotten out of NXT and then a few months later he's holding his own with one of the greatest world champions in the company's history and main eventing TV shows and PPVs. Not only that, but looking BETTER than him on a few occasions.

 

Errrr...The Nexus were BOOKED to attack Cena and destroy the set. That's what turned them into an instant sensation. That had nothing to do with a match.

[bigtplaystew]

OK well just say no. I guess Cena isn't one of the biggest stars in WWE. I guess he hasn't headlined as many wrestlemanias if not more than many of the greatest legends in the company's history.

 

I also guess Cena never lost to Barrett (oh wait he did...) And I guess Barrett wasn't pushing him around on WWE TV for a month or so.

 

I guess all that never happened because Arrow said so.

 

 

BTW.. to reitterate (have to do that alot on this board for some reason) I never said Cena got them over. In fact, I specifically said they are all talented on their own but felt PERSONALLY (again.... my opinion... so I don't care if Arrow or anyone else agrees with me) felt many people had very entertaining runs agianst Cena.

 

Batista was AWESOME against Cena. The spotlight and everything. Great stuff and a very fun to watch Batista.

 

 

I actually dont want to defend Cena. Just saying I like him but I'm one of those crazy wrestling fans that hits the internet and actually still enjoys it.

[Arrows]

I don't get why people liked Batista/Cena.

 

Batista whined and cried and complained week in and week out because he couldn't beat some pathetic chump. It made Batista look like a complete loser, and ruined any credibility he had.

[Jaysin]

I don't get why people liked Batista/Cena.

 

Batista whined and cried and complained week in and week out because he couldn't beat some pathetic chump. It made Batista look like a complete loser, and ruined any credibility he had.

 

The match itself was above and beyond any match Batista had ever had. Except the finish was awful.

[bigtplaystew]

Your opinion. In mine... he was funny and entertaining. I liked "spotlight" Batista better than Evolution Batista myself. He made me chuckle and I was watchign pretty hardcore at that point.

 

You aren't wrong for not liking him OR cena. In fact, most of the internet hates Cena. So I can't sit here as an intelligent adult asnd act liek EVERYONE is nuts.

 

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree.

[lazorbeak]

Absolutely agree that Cena has consistently been involved in entertaining angles pretty much non-stop after that pretty forgettable story with Orton a couple of years back. The booking has been spotty and not always able to hold a heel's momentum after working with Cena, but the guys he's up against almost always come away looking good.

 

Not even sure why I'm responding to Arrows, who obviously has a little bit of a bias, but I just wanted to make a quick reality check.

 

One of the greatest world champions? No.

 

Statistically John Cena is #4 on the list of all-time champions based on reign length, one of the only objective ways to measure a champions "greatness." He's one of the top draws ever, too.

 

Main Eventing PPVs? No. He even got robbed of his title shot.

 

Yes. Barrett main evented multiple pay per views in 2010. He main evented Bragging Rights, Survivor Series, and TLC in one on one matches, and was prominently featured in the main events of both Summerslam and Night of Champions. That's main eventing nearly half the events in 2010 when he wasn't even on the roster in January.

 

Looking better than Cena? Never happened.

 

Before or after Cena was forced to join Nexus? Before or after Barrett went head-to-head with Cena on the mic and looked like a potential top level talent?

 

Granted the end-result of that feud was Cena going over definitively and Barrett switching brands, but it was WWE's cold feet on a Barrett/Undertaker feud that sent him back down the card, not Cena.

[Tha Black Phenom]

I don't get why people liked Batista/Cena.

 

Batista whined and cried and complained week in and week out because he couldn't beat some pathetic chump. It made Batista look like a complete loser, and ruined any credibility he had.

 

Yet he was more entertaining than most, if not all of his face run. Maybe it was the fact it seemed very fresh, or the fact he just seemed more natural as a heel, and looked like he wanted to be one for a long time.

[DaMegaFish]

"This guy is working on GI Joe right now as we speak, congratulations Dwayne."

"Ooh! That makes me mad."

 

I lol'd when Punk said that.

[Arrows]

Statistically John Cena is #4 on the list of all-time champions based on reign length, one of the only objective ways to measure a champions "greatness." He's one of the top draws ever, too.

 

Yes. Barrett main evented multiple pay per views in 2010. He main evented Bragging Rights, Survivor Series, and TLC in one on one matches, and was prominently featured in the main events of both Summerslam and Night of Champions. That's main eventing nearly half the events in 2010 when he wasn't even on the roster in January.

 

Before or after Cena was forced to join Nexus? Before or after Barrett went head-to-head with Cena on the mic and looked like a potential top level talent?

 

Granted the end-result of that feud was Cena going over definitively and Barrett switching brands, but it was WWE's cold feet on a Barrett/Undertaker feud that sent him back down the card, not Cena.

 

John Cena is also making his reigns and holding the top spot during an era where there is ONE, top dog. The only other people you can fairly compare are Ric Flair, and Hulk Hogan.

 

Didn't think Barrett main evented that many. Was thinking most weren't the top slot on the show, for some reason. Maybe because of the idiocy surrounding the entire thing.

 

Cena being "forced to join the Nexus" made the entire Nexus look pathetic. The entire thing was booked to make Cena look like jesus and make sure every fan understood no one else is to be cared about. Same goes for his "Fired" period, where every 10 year old's role model repeatedly BROKE THE LAW.

 

What a hero.

 

Barrett never won anything for himself. He needed help at every turn and even that only worked 1 time in matches of any actual significance. Every other time he was on the losing end for no reason what so ever.

 

Yet he was more entertaining than most, if not all of his face run. Maybe it was the fact it seemed very fresh, or the fact he just seemed more natural as a heel, and looked like he wanted to be one for a long time.

 

Big, boring, roid monkey looks better as a heel than a face.

 

Surprising.

[bigtplaystew]

Arrow, I guess we're talking about two different things. You're talking about Barrett not looking great in terms of his character not being able to win without it being dirty (like all heels but whatever)

 

I'm more looking at it like... Cena and he headlined several PPVs together... worked on TV together... Barrett held his own with Cena on the mic and in presence. This wasn't liek a two week thing this went on for MONTHS. Wade went from rising up froma group of rookies and no names to standing in the ring with a top guy and being believable. I'm not saying Cena did it all and carried the feud by himself or anything like that as Barrett is very talented and had a ton of potential (still does IMO).

 

I just feel like Cena didnt bury Barrett and make him look like a punk. He did the opposite in my opinion. They had some pretty decent matches and Barrett looked like a top heel against Cena. Soemthing he has yet to replicate since going to Smackdown.

[Arrows]

Arrow, I guess we're talking about two different things. You're talking about Barrett not looking great in terms of his character not being able to win without it being dirty (like all heels but whatever)

 

I'm more looking at it like... Cena and he headlined several PPVs together... worked on TV together... Barrett held his own with Cena on the mic and in presence. This wasn't liek a two week thing this went on for MONTHS. Wade went from rising up froma group of rookies and no names to standing in the ring with a top guy and being believable. I'm not saying Cena did it all and carried the feud by himself or anything like that as Barrett is very talented and had a ton of potential (still does IMO).

 

I just feel like Cena didnt bury Barrett and make him look like a punk. He did the opposite in my opinion. They had some pretty decent matches and Barrett looked like a top heel against Cena. Soemthing he has yet to replicate since going to Smackdown.

 

Cena makes EVERYONE he wrestles look bad. They can't withstand a punch, 3 shoulder blocks, and being gingerly laid on their back a time or two, but Cena can come back from 7 vs. 1 odds.

[bigtplaystew]

OK fair enough lol. I'm done arguing this point with you. I'm not trying to say Cena is the lord's gift to wrestling and all should behold his wonder.

 

I think he's been reasonably fun to watch over the years. You don't. To each his own.

 

But MAN that CM punk match was pretty good at money in the bank...

[Prophet]

Cena makes EVERYONE he wrestles look bad. They can't withstand a punch, 3 shoulder blocks, and being gingerly laid on their back a time or two, but Cena can come back from 7 vs. 1 odds.

 

Not to mention a devastating DDT on concrete that Cena shook off in 4 seconds, to "enhance" the super Cena belief. Whether you want to pin it on Cena, or the agents who map out the match, or the writers, or whatever, the issue remains that any who stepped in the ring with Cena, have failed to shine when compared to superman in jorts.