The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[OldStingberg]

Sigh.

 

Why can't people just watch the show and let things play out before they have a stroke freaking out about it? Are there questions to be answered about what's going on on Raw? Of course. There's also 15,000 good ways to answer them. That's the whole point. People aren't going to watch if everything makes sense every week. The point of this week's show is to get you to tune in to next week's show, not make all the people you like look good and all the people you don't like look bad. Sit back, relax. Watch the shows and take in the bigger picture. More often than not, things will make sense and be good when you do that.

 

The WWE isn't exactly going strong in the ratings right now, so there's probably a pretty good chance that what they're doing isn't working as well as it could. And all the "sitting back, relaxing, and not forming opinions" isn't going to change that.

[OldStingberg]

I don't think he was supposed to help him...

 

That's my point, though, they should be helping Punk get as over as possible. He was on fire coming out of MitB, he was getting mainstream coverage, everyone was raving about his work, the story he was involved in, everything. The WWE had a serious chance to turn Punk into a legitimate long-term superstar that could bring back a number of old fans.

 

But instead they rushed him back to TV and got him wrapped up in this middling whodunnit that's not doing anything to further what made Punk so suddenly relevant. They had a chance to do something incredible with Punk, but now I'm left hoping he doesn't find himself stuck in the same sort of no man's land by the next WrestleMania that former main eventers like The Miz and Wade Barrett currently find themselves in.

 

But hey, it could be worse, he could be Daniel Bryan, who finds himself facing the dual threat of losing clean matches repeatedly while the announcers help bury him. It's almost awkward to see Bryan carrying around the MitB briefcase and yet getting almost no reaction when he comes out.

 

(And just so I'm not totally trashing the WWE, I do love what they're doing with Air Boom. That's been the one bright spot these past couple of weeks for me.)

[djthefunkchris]

That's my point, though, they should be helping Punk get as over as possible. He was on fire coming out of MitB, he was getting mainstream coverage, everyone was raving about his work, the story he was involved in, everything. The WWE had a serious chance to turn Punk into a legitimate long-term superstar that could bring back a number of old fans.

 

But instead they rushed him back to TV and got him wrapped up in this middling whodunnit that's not doing anything to further what made Punk so suddenly relevant. They had a chance to do something incredible with Punk, but now I'm left hoping he doesn't find himself stuck in the same sort of no man's land by the next WrestleMania that former main eventers like The Miz and Wade Barrett currently find themselves in.

 

But hey, it could be worse, he could be Daniel Bryan, who finds himself facing the dual threat of losing clean matches repeatedly while the announcers help bury him. It's almost awkward to see Bryan carrying around the MitB briefcase and yet getting almost no reaction when he comes out.

 

(And just so I'm not totally trashing the WWE, I do love what they're doing with Air Boom. That's been the one bright spot these past couple of weeks for me.)

 

Going to just respond with the flipside of thoughts. Realise this doesn't mean I completely dissagree with you, but I do find myself siding moreso with Candyman and his thoughts.

 

With Bryan holding the MITB, and it looks as though he's cashing in at Wrestlemania, it's a guarrantee they are thinking "bigger thoughts" then what you see right now. My opinion is, he will never be a solid main eventer... I'm sure you agree with that, being realistic. He can be a legitimate threat, and a fun run with the belt though. I see him as a good company man down the road, someone that can be counted on to get other's over, and be incredibly important in this position. I'm looking at it from the "realistic" standpoint, that he won't be able to carry a Main Event card, at least not on a permanant basis. I do think that he is going to get more and more important as time goes by... Tonight, I think it was important to establish the fake Sin Cara as a heel. Perfect to work it on the biggest underdog (right now) in the company. Makes it alot more interesting when Bryan makes his comeback.

 

With Punk, I really think it was a no-brainer... I don't think it would have worked out any better waiting. With Cena, sure... He's not going to be forgotten anytime soon. With Punk, I just feel that it was too much of a gamble to NOT have him back on the air ASAP, in fear of losing what was built. For once, I feel they caught something good at the right time, and in that respect I respectfully dissagree on the timing aspect of it, with you.

 

Far as HHH making him look good, or bad... I don't know how they could sell a match between the two if HHH didn't act at least a little bit like HHH. I mean, come on, he's no slouch and people wouldn't buy Punk being able to get the best of him in every confrontation, which he has up till now. So one time, they have HHH get the best of Punk. I really don't think it's that big of a deal, especially when Punk is still the center of focus on every show.

 

Punk's shaking things up, and everyone is flocking around him. I wouldn't be surprised one bit if Punk didn't help HHH in this on purpose. Makes it more believable.... because I'm telling you right now, it was pretty unbelievable to me that he could say everything he was saying without at least one comeback line from HHH. Triple H is probably every bit as witty as Punk, and I find the back and forth comments alot more fun then a one sided Punkfest. Just my opinion on that.

 

Don't get me wrong, I want Punk to be on the level of Cena by the time this storyline ends (or at least closer then he is now).... I'm hoping I'm correct moreso then anything. I believe he will reach his full "Potential" in overness, by the time this is done.

 

Remember, I'm the guy that thought they missed the boat on Joey Mercury and Hardcore Holly. Both of them were injured, and the crowd was ready to love them and cheer them for it, but they messed up in my opinion. Mercury, after being hit with that ladder, come on the show, showed what happened to him, and everyone cheered FOR him, not against him.... Then he went ahead and did the pre-planned whinefest about Jeff and Matt meaning to hurt him on purpose. That could have went a totally different way, and in my opinion he could have been bigger at that moment, then Nitro/Morrison ever will be. Same with Holly, after the match with RVD, when he kept going for I believe 30 minutes in that match, after being cut severely enough for plenty of stitch's in his back, by a table. When he showed up the very next week, ready to work, the crowd cheered like crazy.... Then he opened his mouth because of course they had to go with what was already planned to be said instead of going off the cuff and cashing in on his popularity that the match had caused (I know they had no way of knowing the crowds would have acted like that, but when something that big happens, they should at least try and gain something from it... even if it's a little late).

 

Anyways, so far I haven't seen them mess up with Punk yet.. He's not a "big" guy, and so I expect he will be pushed around alot outside of the ring.... It's inside the ring when no one else is around, that Punk's going to be getting the best of them.

 

Pluss, when Nash come to the ring, it was almost like they wanted everyone to see that Punk could have taken Nash had HHH not interfered.... It looked like HHH was trying to protect Nash, not Punk. Then the weirdness of having to protect Punk, something he probably wouldn't have done if not for the position he finds himself in right now, and Nash laying out HHH without any effort whatsoever. Kind of leaves me feeling that Nash was the right guy for Punk to be in the ring with.... Because Nash sold Punks onslaught very well, and HHH sold the heck out of Nash's on him...although kind of hard not to sell when Nash litterally threw him down, was no time to make it look any worse, lol.

[michgcs]

Remember, I'm the guy that thought they missed the boat on Joey Mercury and Hardcore Holly. Both of them were injured, and the crowd was ready to love them and cheer them for it, but they messed up in my opinion.

 

Kinda like Ted Dibiase back in the Legacy days? Crowd was chanting for him to hit Orton after Orton RKO-ed the Million Dollar Man, but poor Ted had to take it like the little b*tch that he is.

[Fantabulous]

The WWE isn't exactly going strong in the ratings right now, so there's probably a pretty good chance that what they're doing isn't working as well as it could. And all the "sitting back, relaxing, and not forming opinions" isn't going to change that.

 

No, it won't change it, but if you take the advice it means you won't make arguments that can't be countered. Seriously, how many times do WWE have to drop the ball in recent years before people stop wheeling out the tired and played out, "Wait and see where it goes" line? The "Wait and see" line doesn't cut it because 1) it's the equivalent of sticking your fingers in your ears and pretending there is nothing to be worried about, and 2) How many times has this actually been a reasonable course of action? How many times has it actually worked out? When people complained about Christian losing the WWE title on the first TV after he won it, they were told to wait and see where it went. Well, we waited, and Christian has spent five months playing glorified jobber to Randy Orton with almost no attempt made to even try and make him look credible. Wait and see works if you don't like putting thought into things. possibly because it's too much trouble or it hurts, but some people people actually like to think about what they watch and question things rather then mindlessly accepting them and ignoring the (many) questions that get raised.

 

Kinda like Ted Dibiase back in the Legacy days? Crowd was chanting for him to hit Orton after Orton RKO-ed the Million Dollar Man, but poor Ted had to take it like the little b*tch that he is.

 

I think you're confusing things up; it was Dusty who got RKO'd and Cody who stood there and took it. The point remains, though, and the fans were begging for Cody to turn on Orton but, alas, they ignored it.

[OldStingberg]

Going to just respond with the flipside of thoughts. Realise this doesn't mean I completely dissagree with you, but I do find myself siding moreso with Candyman and his thoughts.

 

We'll just agree to disagree on Punk. I think the WWE wasted a golden opportunity to make Punk more than the (co-)main eventer du jour, you don't.

 

With Bryan holding the MITB, and it looks as though he's cashing in at Wrestlemania, it's a guarrantee they are thinking "bigger thoughts" then what you see right now. My opinion is, he will never be a solid main eventer... I'm sure you agree with that, being realistic. He can be a legitimate threat, and a fun run with the belt though. I see him as a good company man down the road, someone that can be counted on to get other's over, and be incredibly important in this position. I'm looking at it from the "realistic" standpoint, that he won't be able to carry a Main Event card, at least not on a permanant basis. I do think that he is going to get more and more important as time goes by... Tonight, I think it was important to establish the fake Sin Cara as a heel. Perfect to work it on the biggest underdog (right now) in the company. Makes it alot more interesting when Bryan makes his comeback.

 

I totally agree that Bryan's never gonna be a carry-a-PPV superstar. And I know that there's a lot of time to build him back up before WrestleMania. But they already have their work cut out for them in building him up to being a legitimate addition to a big WrestleMania match, they don't need to bury him right now and make it harder. I can see maybe not pushing him for a bit, but they're outright burying him. He's losing clean every week at this point, all the while Michael Cole is doing nothing but saying how little charisma he has (which hurts because it's true) and now he's even saying that Bryan doesn't know more than two submission moves. Bryan's technical wrestling ability is almost literally all that he has, one of the announcers shouldn't be cutting that out from under him before it ever gets properly established. And all the other two announcers could do was wait for him to do another move and say, "Look, three moves!" Great damage control, guys.

 

As a result, Bryan is one of the least over guys that actually gets on TV still. And that's why I don't think it makes any sense to have Sin Cara turn on him. Why have Sin Cara turn on a guy the crowd doesn't care about?

 

To be honest, I'm one of the millions of people that stopped watching the WWE in the last decade. But the buzz around Punk brought me back in for a re-examination, and the MitB PPV made me think that the WWE was really starting to get it. Nearly everything since then, though, is telling me that the WWE is still the short-sighted company that struggles to build proper stars or interesting stories. I figure I'll give them up through NoC to see if they improve what they've got going on, but I'm not optimistic.

[djthefunkchris]

On Bryan:

 

My opinion is that it never really takes more then three victories to build someone back up, even if at the bottum.... AS long as they've been visible throughout.

 

I know, in TEW terms, it would actually be next to impossible, but also in TEW terms, Sin Cara would probably be lower end of Lower Midcard to Daniels strong Midcard position. I can see him slip into lower midcard, but everyone knows him now, so he's not slipping into oblivion, unless they take him off the shows. Sin Cara got a strong victory, and possibly the curveball everyone is looking for might come out of it (fake Sin Cara).

 

He's lost to Barrett (future solid Main Eventer, could already be one). Twice to Alberto Del Rio, another future Main eventer that is probably closer to being there then Wade at this time. The biggest loss, unless I'm forgetting one, was to Sin Cara, which I can't help to think there is somewhere they want to take that.

 

I don't think of Jobbing the same way most do, I don't think. For me, someone more over losing to someone less over (HHH losing to CM Punk) would be jobbing. The other way around though, isn't jobbing to me. I know it's a "Job" technically, but it's not like they are putting him up against people that aren't already over him (Outside of this last match up between him and Sin Cara). To me the match itself has alot to do with it as well. Does he come accross as if he had a chance to win?

 

People use the word burried to easily in my opinion as well. Example:

John Cena beating The Miz, after a match that goes both ways (open), isn't burrying The Miz... If it looks like The Miz might have had a chance. IF John Cena goes in, does five moves and the match is over, then I would somewhat agree, but the fact of the matter is, is that John Cena is alot more over then The Miz is, and The Miz just being in a storyline with John Cena is enough to actually help his overness, win/lose/draw. Just depends on how strong they make him in the match-ups, and equally on the promo's.

 

I agree that Bryan is losing, can't deny that... but to me he's going up against people over his card position, and "almost" overcoming them. To me that's not burrying him, it's keeping him relevant.

[Fantabulous]

I totally agree that Bryan's never gonna be a carry-a-PPV superstar. And I know that there's a lot of time to build him back up before WrestleMania. But they already have their work cut out for them in building him up to being a legitimate addition to a big WrestleMania match, they don't need to bury him right now and make it harder. I can see maybe not pushing him for a bit, but they're outright burying him. He's losing clean every week at this point, all the while Michael Cole is doing nothing but saying how little charisma he has (which hurts because it's true) and now he's even saying that Bryan doesn't know more than two submission moves. Bryan's technical wrestling ability is almost literally all that he has, one of the announcers shouldn't be cutting that out from under him before it ever gets properly established. And all the other two announcers could do was wait for him to do another move and say, "Look, three moves!" Great damage control, guys.

.

 

It would be nice if Bryan addressed this. Outside of their initial confrontation, Bryan's just let this guy castrate him on a regular basis for months now. With Bryan just taking it every week, the message Cole goes on and on (and on and on and on) about can only be construed by the average viewer as being true when the guy he's attacking does nothing to refute him. They're not only painting Bryan as a geek but a geek without the balls to stand up for himself against someone who has been tearing into him for months now.

[sebsy]

On Bryan:

 

My opinion is that it never really takes more then three victories to build someone back up, even if at the bottum.... AS long as they've been visible throughout.

 

I know, in TEW terms, it would actually be next to impossible, but also in TEW terms, Sin Cara would probably be lower end of Lower Midcard to Daniels strong Midcard position. I can see him slip into lower midcard, but everyone knows him now, so he's not slipping into oblivion, unless they take him off the shows. Sin Cara got a strong victory, and possibly the curveball everyone is looking for might come out of it (fake Sin Cara).

 

He's lost to Barrett (future solid Main Eventer, could already be one). Twice to Alberto Del Rio, another future Main eventer that is probably closer to being there then Wade at this time. The biggest loss, unless I'm forgetting one, was to Sin Cara, which I can't help to think there is somewhere they want to take that.

 

I don't think of Jobbing the same way most do, I don't think. For me, someone more over losing to someone less over (HHH losing to CM Punk) would be jobbing. The other way around though, isn't jobbing to me. I know it's a "Job" technically, but it's not like they are putting him up against people that aren't already over him (Outside of this last match up between him and Sin Cara). To me the match itself has alot to do with it as well. Does he come accross as if he had a chance to win?

 

People use the word burried to easily in my opinion as well. Example:

John Cena beating The Miz, after a match that goes both ways (open), isn't burrying The Miz... If it looks like The Miz might have had a chance. IF John Cena goes in, does five moves and the match is over, then I would somewhat agree, but the fact of the matter is, is that John Cena is alot more over then The Miz is, and The Miz just being in a storyline with John Cena is enough to actually help his overness, win/lose/draw. Just depends on how strong they make him in the match-ups, and equally on the promo's.

 

I agree that Bryan is losing, can't deny that... but to me he's going up against people over his card position, and "almost" overcoming them. To me that's not burrying him, it's keeping him relevant.

 

 

If there was a facebook style like post option on here, this post would get one. As there isn't, I'll just say I very much agree with this.

[OldStingberg]

I agree that Bryan is losing, can't deny that... but to me he's going up against people over his card position, and "almost" overcoming them. To me that's not burrying him, it's keeping him relevant.

 

I don't think Sin Cara or Wade Barrett are necessarily over his card position, but regardless, if they're keeping him relevant, they're doing a terrible job of it considering he gets almost zero reaction from crowds now. And it's not just that he's losing, but he's doing it while an announcer absolutely trashes him in ways that aren't being countered in any way at all by anyone.

 

It would be nice if Bryan addressed this. Outside of their initial confrontation, Bryan's just let this guy castrate him on a regular basis for months now. With Bryan just taking it every week, the message Cole goes on and on (and on and on and on) about can only be construed by the average viewer as being true when the guy he's attacking does nothing to refute him. They're not only painting Bryan as a geek but a geek without the balls to stand up for himself against someone who has been tearing into him for months now.

 

I think this is a great idea. Not only would that help refute Cole's messages that I think have a chance of sticking to Bryan, but going over Cole in some way would be an easy way to build Bryan some sort of relevance. Unfortunately considering that's pretty much what's happening with Otunga and King, I doubt they go back to that well to help Bryan out.

[Fantabulous]

Why beat Bryan at all? Why not, and this is an off-the-wall idea, have him win? You know, he did win one of the MitB briefcases and is supposedly going to cash it at Wrestlemania and theoretically be in one of the top matches. Why not spend the next seven months giving him wins and slowly but surely pushing him higher up the card so that when he cashes in at Wrestlemania, if that does happen, it's a credible match that people will accept as being worthy of Wrestlemania and by that time people might believe they guy could win?

 

It's not just that he loses week after week. It's that he loses week after week with on of the main commentators doing everything in his power to bury the guy six-feet under. Newsflash to the dense, but that doesn't help you with the casual fan. When the casual fan has it hammered home to them week in and week out the Bryan is a geek who only knows two moves, and the guy in question not only loses on a regular but also does **** all about being buried commentary, they don't think the guys worth a damn. They see him as a geek who loses a lot and have absolutely no reason in the world to care about him. The announcer doesn't give them one and the booking doesn't, either.

 

But hey; let's just sit back and wait for the masterplan to unfold and it'll all come right in the end.

[20LEgend]

I'm hoping he goes on this mini losing streak. 4 Weeks in a row, just makes me think there is more to this than him simply losing. And then snaps and breaks everyone around him. Destroying everyone, without turning heel I hope they turn him into a bad ass. But IDK.

[MrOnu]

Daniel Bryan only has to start winning around January or even February. Everything before that moment is not relevent coming to the actual cash-in at Wrestlemania. He doesn't even have to win decisely by that time either, he could be lucky and/or barely beating people and it would still paint him as underdog which I think is they way they are going. If Bryan wins the title at WM, it's going to be the feel good story of an underdog, just like Mysterio's win a couple years ago.

[djthefunkchris]

No one likes Cole (He has great heat), so him putting down Bryan is totally cool with me. I mean, come on... Cole calling Bryan a geek is on par with Erckal calling Laura Winslow a nerd. It's not going to hurt him at all. To be honest, I think it helps him more then hurts him. TO ME, it would be even better if Cole kept ranting about him through half the show.

 

I actually hope they don't go the Bryan vs. Cole thing again, but I have to agree that it looks like that's where it's headed.

 

/In Miz voice: "Cole, really... REALLY!???"

[Stennick]

I would find a heel thats not doing much on Smackdown and have him get in Bryan's ear "do you really want to leave the greatest chance you'll ever have to fate? Make your own fate. You want to change this place, prove yourself, being the champion is the biggest spotlight to do that from" he starts temping Bryan. Finally Bryan tells him to screw off they feud over the MITB briefcase for a few months giving Bryan something to do until WM.

[crownsy]

IT's clearly a losing streak storyline, he keeps coming up just short vs. top guys.

 

WWE's entire gimmick with bryan is he's the underdog. So it makes sense to have him come up just short of beating those guys to play up the "he can't do it" aspect of the character. IT could lead alit of ways, two good ones were suggested by onu and sten.

 

It;s a whole diffrent question on whether WWE will screw up the storyline or not, but if it were me I'd have him get more and more frustrated till he snapped, possably by cashing in the MITB briefcase unexpectedly, mabey at SS.

[djthefunkchris]

The idea of a heel getting in his ear has me curious on how that would go, and if Bryan can play that type of character (perhaps better).

 

I was going to bring up MVP, and his losing streak, but his was to change up heel to face... Perhaps the Bryan losing streak is to go from face to heel, as Stennick suggested?

 

I honestly don't know where they are going to go, but I'm hoping each time he's in the ring, someone (commentator) keeps adding up the moves for Cole... That's four moves, That's five moves..... That's 102 moves!

 

Just alot of things could happen with this, and to be totally honest Bryan hasn't been a worry of mine since MITB and the announcement about Wrestlemania.... IF he should gamble the briefcase and lose it, then I would probably be on the opposite end of this debate about him.

[Teh_Showtime]

man of 1005 holds gimmick would be hilarious

[OldStingberg]

No one likes Cole (He has great heat), so him putting down Bryan is totally cool with me. I mean, come on... Cole calling Bryan a geek is on par with Erckal calling Laura Winslow a nerd. It's not going to hurt him at all. To be honest, I think it helps him more then hurts him. TO ME, it would be even better if Cole kept ranting about him through half the show.

 

And yet Bryan gets absolutely no pop from the crowd. I'm not arguing what Cole is doing should or should not work. I'm arguing it obviously doesn't work. You can say Cole putting down Bryan should work, but I'm saying that based on the crowd's reaction to him, it doesn't work. And I think what Cole is doing to Bryan while he continues to lose repeatedly has the capability of doing some amount of real damage to Bryan.

 

I'm not a fan of the thinking that, "Oh, they'll only need a couple months to rehabilitate his character". The WWE has two-and-a-half legitimate active stars right now: Cena, Orton, and Punk. That's it. And I think that's largely because of these short-sighted ideas about burying and rehabilitating characters. They're pushing Mark Henry hard now because they need a new heel du jour for Orton (apparently a seventh Orton/Christian match in the span of a couple months is just too much), but Henry's only got half the heat he should because a lot of people remember Sexual Chocolate fathering a hand. Unless the WWE starts doing something different with Bryan, by the time his character gets rehabilitated for his WrestleMania push, he'll only have half the heat he should because a lot of people will remember him as the boring vegan with a couple submission moves who lost a bunch of matches.

[OldStingberg]

Just so I'm not being the guy talking about everything that's going wrong, here's something I read somewhere else that I think would be phenomenal, and would not only salvage what's been going on but really set the WWE up going forward.

 

ADR/Cena goes on before HHH/Punk. ADR and Cena go back and forth. Ref bump with both ADR/Cena down, too. Nash comes down and powerbombs ADR. Cena and the ref come to their senses and Cena picks up the pin. He then notices Nash and gets "pissed off" because he didn't want to win that way. Nash and Cena stare at each other before Nash walks away.

 

HHH/Punk ends with an interference by Nash and Punk just getting pummeled by HHH/Nash. Cena runs down and JR screams, "By Gowd Cena is here to help!" He slides into the ring and HHH/Nash back off. Cena gives the AA to Punk. Cena/Nash/HHH celebrate in the ring and HHH grabs the mic. "You wanted change, Punk? Here is the change you were begging for." They then continue to beat the crap out of him.

 

I know the WWE is terrified of turning Cena heel, and they've got some legitimate reasons for it. But it should probably happen at some point. Every single popular wrestling superstar has survived multiple heel turns. Cena won't be any different. And now would be the perfect time to turn him, because it would capitalize on the momentum Punk has created for himself and turn him into a serious top-tier active WWE superstar (bringing the total number up to three). The WWE would undoubtedly lose some merchandise sales from the parents of Cena fans, but they can make up some of that by pushing someone like Good Sin Cara alongside Punk against the new nWo.

 

Plus the increase in PPV buys the next few months would help close that gap. Could you imagine the buzz for a Survivor Series of Team nWo (Cena, HHH, Nash, Evil Sin Cara?, Dolph Ziggler?) vs. Team WWE (Punk, Good Sin Cara, John Morrison, Daniel Bryan, and The Rock).

 

Then imagine a WrestleMania headlined by Cena/Rock and Punk/Ziggler or even Punk/Jericho potentially. They could even turn Cena back at this point. Cena could lose to the Rock, take it as a wake-up call, and after a little post-match mic work, WrestleMania could close with Cena and the Rock shaking hands and raising each others hand for the crowd.

 

I think this is the sort of thing the WWE needs right now going forward. A storyline like this would solidify Punk among the few top active wrestlers in the WWE, it would rekindle interest among many former WWE fans, and it would help elevate good and/or popular workers like Ziggler, Sin Cara, Bryan, and Morrison to the point where with a little more push, they might be able to join Cena, Orton, and Punk as guys that could main event a PPV, and not just against Cena, Orton, or Punk.

 

This sort of story certainly isn't the only way to accomplish these things. But these sort of things really need to be accomplished right now, I just hope the WWE is really thinking moderately long-term enough to address them with whatever they're cooking up.

[juggaloninjalee]

Just so I'm not being the guy talking about everything that's going wrong, here's something I read somewhere else that I think would be phenomenal, and would not only salvage what's been going on but really set the WWE up going forward.

 

 

 

I know the WWE is terrified of turning Cena heel, and they've got some legitimate reasons for it. But it should probably happen at some point. Every single popular wrestling superstar has survived multiple heel turns. Cena won't be any different. And now would be the perfect time to turn him, because it would capitalize on the momentum Punk has created for himself and turn him into a serious top-tier active WWE superstar (bringing the total number up to three). The WWE would undoubtedly lose some merchandise sales from the parents of Cena fans, but they can make up some of that by pushing someone like Good Sin Cara alongside Punk against the new nWo.

 

Plus the increase in PPV buys the next few months would help close that gap. Could you imagine the buzz for a Survivor Series of Team nWo (Cena, HHH, Nash, Evil Sin Cara?, Dolph Ziggler?) vs. Team WWE (Punk, Good Sin Cara, John Morrison, Daniel Bryan, and The Rock).

 

Then imagine a WrestleMania headlined by Cena/Rock and Punk/Ziggler or even Punk/Jericho potentially. They could even turn Cena back at this point. Cena could lose to the Rock, take it as a wake-up call, and after a little post-match mic work, WrestleMania could close with Cena and the Rock shaking hands and raising each others hand for the crowd.

 

I think this is the sort of thing the WWE needs right now going forward. A storyline like this would solidify Punk among the few top active wrestlers in the WWE, it would rekindle interest among many former WWE fans, and it would help elevate good and/or popular workers like Ziggler, Sin Cara, Bryan, and Morrison to the point where with a little more push, they might be able to join Cena, Orton, and Punk as guys that could main event a PPV, and not just against Cena, Orton, or Punk.

 

This sort of story certainly isn't the only way to accomplish these things. But these sort of things really need to be accomplished right now, I just hope the WWE is really thinking moderately long-term enough to address them with whatever they're cooking up.

 

I like that fantasy booking scenario. HHH, Nash, and Cena would be fun. Only issue I have is that Cena is the only in ring talent of the three. HHH and Nash are more like personalities now.

[Fantabulous]

And yet Bryan gets absolutely no pop from the crowd. I'm not arguing what Cole is doing should or should not work. I'm arguing it obviously doesn't work. You can say Cole putting down Bryan should work, but I'm saying that based on the crowd's reaction to him, it doesn't work. And I think what Cole is doing to Bryan while he continues to lose repeatedly has the capability of doing some amount of real damage to Bryan.

 

But Cole has such great heat...

 

Every single popular wrestling superstar has survived multiple heel turns.

Multiple turns just leads to character burn-out and ever diminishing returns. They might 'survive' multiple turns but they'll mean a whole lot less. If Cena ever does turn, which there is no reason to do until his merchandise numbers start to fall, it needs to be a serious heel run that lasts a good while (a couple of years) and then when he makes the inevitable turn back, he stays like that for a LONG time.

[Teh_Showtime]

If they wanted to go full NWO add Awesome Truth to the trio, would call for maybe Air Boom to work upper tier matches.

[Bull]

Good interview with CM Punk.

 

 

[OldStingberg]

I like that fantasy booking scenario. HHH, Nash, and Cena would be fun. Only issue I have is that Cena is the only in ring talent of the three. HHH and Nash are more like personalities now.

 

Very true. They would need other active wrestlers to join in the group. I think it'd be a perfect spot for Dolph Ziggler, a guy I think is a serious main event level talent just needing the proper push. Wade Barrett and The Miz are the other two I'd like to see getting pushed, but I don't think either one of them would fit a new nWo right now.

 

Multiple turns just leads to character burn-out and ever diminishing returns. They might 'survive' multiple turns but they'll mean a whole lot less. If Cena ever does turn, which there is no reason to do until his merchandise numbers start to fall, it needs to be a serious heel run that lasts a good while (a couple of years) and then when he makes the inevitable turn back, he stays like that for a LONG time.

 

I'm talking multiple heel turns over the course of an entire career. Of course if you do them too often, it kills the character, but pretty much every popular superstar has had multiple heel turns over the course of their career.

 

And I disagree about Cena not needing to turn until his merch numbers fall. I think it'd be foolish to protect his merch numbers while the rest of the business suffers. I think the WWE is at a major crossroads right now. Their past superstars are either retiring, leaving to do other things or being severely limited by old age and injuries. That's left them in the position where they've pretty much got Cena and Orton now. If they're unwilling to do what needs to be done in order to build some stars for the future (and the present), I don't know how much help Cena's merch numbers will be.