The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[bigtplaystew]

Good matches for the most part and a pretty good card.

 

 

Cody is awesome I really want to see him at that next level.

 

I am a Cena fan but I have to admit I was kinda hoping ADR would at least get the dirty win. I don't particularly understand it because Del Rio seems pretty well over. Bizarre choice but I'm sure, like everything, it's all leading to a bigger story somehow. They might want that belt on Cena going into Survivor Series with the Rock for whatever reason. It's the only really logical conclussion I can come to. I'm sure ADR is going to be all over TV as he gets legit heel heat and works a solid match with just about everyone.

 

The HHH/Punk match was pretty good. I was digging it. Punk losing isn't "burying" him or anything crazy like that. He was in THE main event of the PPV and has been one of, if not THE, top story on just about every Raw since Money in the Bank. He's not getting buried. He's a key character in their top flight story and losing an insanely overbooked match doesn't hurt him in my opinion. If anything, he was handling HHH pretty well until the multiple interferences.

 

Very happy for Mark Henry. I liked the match alot more than I thought I would. I have been a fan of his for some time and I'm glad to see him win. I hope they keep the belt on him. I think it'd be a great match for Undertaker at WM28 if Henry steamrolls through guys for the next several months. Unfortunately, I doubt they'd commit to that and I know it's a bit far fetched, but it's something I'd like to see.

[ZMAN]

Yeah, also don't see why they put the belt on Del rio and then had Cena win it back. My guess... they'll have Rock accidentally cost Cena the title at Vengeance in order to build up tension. No match from Dwayne, just a simple botched run in. They reluctantly team up at SS, some kind of miscommunication happens and they lose. They bitch at each other for a few months like they did before. Dwayne shows up as a surprise entrant at RR, eliminates himself and Cena. They do the final build up to WM. Basically I'm predicting this is all leading to Rock costing Cena everything and pissing him off in order to heat up their battle at WM.

[Candyman]

I believe I might actually know what that's about.

 

Their reasons for attacking Punk and HHH and trying to screw over HHH was because they believed him to be the figurehead of the C-O-N-spiracy that has held them down. However, after they were taken out from the ring, Truth must have seen how Johnny Ace kept the referee from coming into the ring and counting when HHH had Punk pinned with the Pedigree, only to demand that he go in and count when it was the other way around. Seeing that may have told Truth that HHH ISN'T a part of it - in fact, Ace seemed to be conspiring to have HHH forced out of power. So, now seeing HHH as just another victim of the conspiracy, Truth pulled Punk off of him to help fight against it.

 

This is plausible. Truth was laying right there at ringside the entire time. I'm sure it will be explained tonight either way. Of course, there are some people who'd rather criticize and complain than wait and see. C'est la vie.

 

I am a Cena fan but I have to admit I was kinda hoping ADR would at least get the dirty win. I don't particularly understand it because Del Rio seems pretty well over. Bizarre choice but I'm sure, like everything, it's all leading to a bigger story somehow. They might want that belt on Cena going into Survivor Series with the Rock for whatever reason. It's the only really logical conclussion I can come to. I'm sure ADR is going to be all over TV as he gets legit heel heat and works a solid match with just about everyone.

 

The HHH/Punk match was pretty good. I was digging it. Punk losing isn't "burying" him or anything crazy like that. He was in THE main event of the PPV and has been one of, if not THE, top story on just about every Raw since Money in the Bank. He's not getting buried. He's a key character in their top flight story and losing an insanely overbooked match doesn't hurt him in my opinion. If anything, he was handling HHH pretty well until the multiple interferences.

 

Very happy for Mark Henry. I liked the match alot more than I thought I would. I have been a fan of his for some time and I'm glad to see him win. I hope they keep the belt on him. I think it'd be a great match for Undertaker at WM28 if Henry steamrolls through guys for the next several months. Unfortunately, I doubt they'd commit to that and I know it's a bit far fetched, but it's something I'd like to see.

 

It's nice to see a voice of reason on here. Too many people don't realize WWE isn't real, and that titles reigns and wins and losses don't matter. It's just part of a story. I'll never understand why people get so worked up over who wins a title or how often it changes hands, or especially somebody winning or losing a regular match. Who cares? Punk's not going to get treated any differently because he lost that match than he would if he had won. Stop thinking in TEW terms and acting like Punk lost overness or momentum. Obviously losing was part of a much bigger storyline with Triple H and Johnny Ace.

 

I, too, was happy to see Henry win - and not just because it's always nice to see Blandy Boreton without the belt. He's been given a chance the last few months and he's made the most of it, and it's always nice to see guys rewarded for that. I hope he at least gets to keep the title long enough to defend it against the guys he's put on the shelf lately, especially Kane and Big Show, before losing it to Sheamus.

[20LEgend]

R-Truth came out to give CM Punk the win, so why did he stop the pin when Punk was about to win?

 

What positives come from him stopping CM Punk winning? This just after Miz/ Truth tried to give him the win.

 

I thought it was an overbooked cluster_ _ _ _, and I personally didn't like it.

[Carmichael]

i really want them to do a hell in a cell 4 way with Christian, Henry, Orton and Sheamus and have Henry come out on top looking really strong. Im a fan of Henry, i really think if they've given him the title, if they go all the way with it and just keep building him as this huge powerful monster, then they can draw some money off him. They cant drop out of it quickly, will be such a waste.

[Carmichael]

this wont happen but imagine if they built henry so strong, not have him lose, keep the belt on him until mania have taker come back a bit before then at the rumble or the ppv before mania, and have henry beat the undertake and then have a rematch at mania.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Mark Henry, really? I mean, I'm all for seeing Randy Orton lose... but Henry?

 

Is it just me, or has the WWE gotten even hot-shottier with their world title reigns this year?

 

It's like they keep going loco around the fall season.

 

Really gutted Cena won it back so early. Just don't see the point.

[djthefunkchris]

I believe I might actually know what that's about.

 

Their reasons for attacking Punk and HHH and trying to screw over HHH was because they believed him to be the figurehead of the C-O-N-spiracy that has held them down. However, after they were taken out from the ring, Truth must have seen how Johnny Ace kept the referee from coming into the ring and counting when HHH had Punk pinned with the Pedigree, only to demand that he go in and count when it was the other way around. Seeing that may have told Truth that HHH ISN'T a part of it - in fact, Ace seemed to be conspiring to have HHH forced out of power. So, now seeing HHH as just another victim of the conspiracy, Truth pulled Punk off of him to help fight against it.

 

This is of course just my guess, but looking at it like that, it makes some degree of sense.

 

I can agree that the match was pretty goddamned overbooked, but I actually didn't mind it. It all still made sense to me, atleast, and in my eyes, Punk has a plethora of excuses for losing, I don't think it made him look weak at all, especially considering he kicked out of a Pedigree by himself, whereas Triple H needed help to keep from being pinned by the GTS.

That makes a whole lot of scense, especially after looking at the WWE.com "Conspiracy" promo they have their... they have a list, and if your name's on it, watch out (at least till they can see you're not part of it).

R-Truth came out to give CM Punk the win, so why did he stop the pin when Punk was about to win?

 

What positives come from him stopping CM Punk winning? This just after Miz/ Truth tried to give him the win.

 

I thought it was an overbooked cluster_ _ _ _, and I personally didn't like it.

 

The explanation above foreshadows everything IMO, makes scense, and we will see tonight I guess (hopefully).

 

Kind of in my eyes makes alot more scense heading into the five vs. five... All the sudden I see Miz and Truth leading the "Anti-Conspiracy" against the "Conspiracy", making them a bigger deal for that then expected. IF that happens, then I'm all for it.

[20LEgend]

I would hope their is some sort of similar thing like that, (I think they should still be anti-Mr. H's though), I just don't have much faith in that. I hope so and I will be tuning in regardless

[Fantabulous]

Really gutted Cena won it back so early. Just don't see the point.

Don't you know wins and losses don't matter?

 

As I said before, I'd say it's a panic move due to the ratings because taking it off of ADR right before the Mexico tour is stupid. Even it he wins it right back it's a loss he didn't need to take.

[sabataged]

Totally see the Survivor Series main event being

 

Punk, HHH, Rock and Cena vs Miz, Truth, ADR and I guess Nash as much as it pains me to book him into this match. I would rather it be Jericho or something.

 

Allow Miz's team to go over in the end because the Mega Star team couldn't get along.

 

This would be a huge boost for Miz, Truth, and ADR.

[Fantabulous]

Totally see the Survivor Series main event being

 

Punk, HHH, Rock and Cena vs Miz, Truth, ADR and I guess Nash as much as it pains me to book him into this match. I would rather it be Jericho or something.

 

Allow Miz's team to go over in the end because the Mega Star team couldn't get along.

 

This would be a huge boost for Miz, Truth, and ADR.

 

That would not be the worst thing in the world as a main event, as long as they don't make the finishes too much about the Mega Star team not getting along. Of course, the problem comes in trying to logically explain that babyface team to begin with. Punk has no reason to team with Triple H when he can just go after Miz/Truth on is own or with someone he trusts and gets along with, and Triple H forcing him to do it just makes Punk look like a bitch. Rock has no reason to team with, well, anyone. It would have been better had they built to Rock being announced as wrestling at Survivor Series rather than just announcing it and then having to come up with an explanation.

[Nathers7]

The PPV was good apart from Cena - Del Rio and the Divas (who they blatantly don't care about), really wanted to switch off to be honest. Where was the need? How many title reigns does he need? People will switch off if WWE continue with the repetitive booking of a stale character. It wasn't even just the fact that Cena won, it was the WWE booking team totally wasting the use of the MITB briefcase. If Del Rio was going to lose on his first PPV defence why did he win MITB?

 

Henry winning made for a good surprise actually although Orton is his only legitimate challenger for the next few months which might be a boring feud to be honest.

 

Kelly winning was a huge disappointment, and didnt make any sense. This was the first time a divas match got a reaction from the crowd and Beth was the face (only Punk and HHH got a bigger pop) in the eyes of the fans. Does WWE really think we are now going to take Kelly serious as a wrestler because she once again pinned Beth with a rollup (after a Superplex no less!)? Very bad booking decision.

[Prophet]

Halloween guests for Raw

 

As much as I like the Muppets, and I do ... something about Kermit making a match because the Miz mocked him that just seems inherently wrong to me.

[Rone Rivendale]

Kelly winning was a huge disappointment, and didnt make any sense. This was the first time a divas match got a reaction from the crowd and Beth was the face (only Punk and HHH got a bigger pop) in the eyes of the fans. Does WWE really think we are now going to take Kelly serious as a wrestler because she once again pinned Beth with a rollup (after a Superplex no less!)? Very bad booking decision.

 

I DO see Kelly as a legit champion. And not just because she beat Beth twice. I'm sure most of you didn't notice cuz you are against women wrestling in general but Kelly has improved leaps and bounds over the last couple years. She is becoming the modern day Trish Stratus. Trish wasn't a wrestler when she came in, she was a model. And look where she got to. Give Kelly a chance before you crap on her.

[bigtplaystew]

Don't you know wins and losses don't matter?

 

As I said before, I'd say it's a panic move due to the ratings because taking it off of ADR right before the Mexico tour is stupid. Even it he wins it right back it's a loss he didn't need to take.

 

It's possible that you are correct. It's plausible and rational and seems to make sense at this early point before RAW.

 

Cena's been on TV and in a prominent role each week. It's not like he's been gone. I don't see how it's helping ratings by giving him the belt when people profess to hate him so much. But I'm not the WWE and don't claim to have inside knowledge. It wouldn't shock me if they have numbers that directly correlate ratings increases to Cena being the champion.

 

I don't remember who exactly it was, but people made the point a few months back on this very thread that Cena CHASING the gold is more compelling and draws better than when he HAS the gold.

 

Either way, I feel ADR dropping to Cena was an odd choice. I'm very interested in how RAW turns out and to see what becomes of Del Rio. If it was a panic move to get the ratings up, I doubt very much it'll work.

 

Most likely they are working towards some kind of long-term storyline involving Cena and Rock and the belt. I personally don't see that WM28 match being for the title as it doesn't need it. If they have the belt on someone else, they give themselves essentially FOUR main events at WM 28 with Cena/Rock, Undertaker/???, and the two world title matches. So I'd be willing to bet that the earlier theory that Rock will end up costing Cena that title is a strong possibility. That or something similar.

[GhostDogg]

wow.

 

awfully quiet.

 

I was thinking the board would be bombarded with WWE Hate/Love here.

[Candyman]

Don't you know wins and losses don't matter?

 

As I said before, I'd say it's a panic move due to the ratings because taking it off of ADR right before the Mexico tour is stupid. Even it he wins it right back it's a loss he didn't need to take.

 

So true. They haven't mattered in YEARS. Not since the world realized wrestling was scripted. How many times did Austin lose? Rock? Cena loses all the time. The only time in the last 15 years that it remotely mattered whose hand was raised after a match was during Goldberg's winning streak. Other than that, it's meaningless. Matches last anywhere from 1 to 30+ minutes. The relevance of the pinfall is directly proportional to how much of the match it takes up. (3 seconds out of 1800+ seconds in a match) If they mattered, we would actually know who wins and loses a week after a match. Can anybody tell me what CM Punk's record this year is? Cena's record? Most guys are going to win some matches and lose some matches. It's a hell of a lot more important how guys are booked up until the end of the match and how guys are booked outside of matches.

 

And, assuming ADR is going to stay in the title picture, there's nothing wrong with him losing it before the Mexico tour. He'll still be in the main events and getting his hometown moment, even if he's not celebrating with the title.

 

I really hate to be this guy, especially because it's pretty hypocritical of me to be doing this...but

 

So Nash was legit fired huh?

 

Lol, yeah, I was worried that this was going to turn into another Daniel Bryan situation where people thought it was legit for weeks and weeks...I'm glad they didn't make us wait as long this time.

 

I DO see Kelly as a legit champion. And not just because she beat Beth twice. I'm sure most of you didn't notice cuz you are against women wrestling in general but Kelly has improved leaps and bounds over the last couple years. She is becoming the modern day Trish Stratus. Trish wasn't a wrestler when she came in, she was a model. And look where she got to. Give Kelly a chance before you crap on her.

 

This is another great example of what I was talking about regarding wins and losses. Nobody cares. Kelly Kelly's lost like one match this year, but all people do is complain about her. It's just like Miz and Jericho(to pick two examples), when they were champions all anybody ever did was complain about how poorly they were being booked and they looked like bad champions...despite the fact they were winning all the time. If I didn't know any better, I'd think the IWC just likes to complain about everything they possibly can.(Yes, I do realize that that's exactly what they do.)

 

I digress. I do kind of see the Kelly/Trish comparisons...but I think there's a signficant physical difference between the two. Even when Trish was a model, she LOOKED like a wrestler. She was a fitness model, not a barbie model like Kelly. That's not to say barbie dolls can't wrestle, it's just Kelly has a much steeper uphill climb towards legitimacy than Trish did.

 

It wasn't even just the fact that Cena won, it was the WWE booking team totally wasting the use of the MITB briefcase. If Del Rio was going to lose on his first PPV defence why did he win MITB?

 

Edge held the title for 21 days when he cashed in the first time. RVD held it 22 days when he cashed in the first time. Neither of CM Punk's reigns lasted 2 months when he cashed in MITB. This is the ENTIRE POINT of the MITB briefcase. Getting heel heat for somebody because they win the title when they shouldn't. The most logical follow up to that is having them lose it not long after. It got the title off of Punk and onto Cena without having them face each other and gave Kevin Nash a purpose and ignition for his fued with Punk and the Johnny Ace storyline. THAT is why he won it.

 

Cena's been on TV and in a prominent role each week. It's not like he's been gone. I don't see how it's helping ratings by giving him the belt when people profess to hate him so much. But I'm not the WWE and don't claim to have inside knowledge. It wouldn't shock me if they have numbers that directly correlate ratings increases to Cena being the champion.

 

I don't remember who exactly it was, but people made the point a few months back on this very thread that Cena CHASING the gold is more compelling and draws better than when he HAS the gold.

 

Either way, I feel ADR dropping to Cena was an odd choice. I'm very interested in how RAW turns out and to see what becomes of Del Rio. If it was a panic move to get the ratings up, I doubt very much it'll work.

 

Most likely they are working towards some kind of long-term storyline involving Cena and Rock and the belt. I personally don't see that WM28 match being for the title as it doesn't need it. If they have the belt on someone else, they give themselves essentially FOUR main events at WM 28 with Cena/Rock, Undertaker/???, and the two world title matches. So I'd be willing to bet that the earlier theory that Rock will end up costing Cena that title is a strong possibility. That or something similar.

 

I've talked before about how the IWC cares a lot more about ratings than the WWE management does in the post-Monday Night Wars era, and I'm guessing that the WWE management also realizes the person holding the title doesn't have much of an impact on that ratings. Hell, the WWE title match wasn't even the main event of the PPV. Triple H/Punk was, and that's the storyline that's driving ratings for Raw right now. Not to mention the WWE plans these things out months ahead of time and aren't going to screw everything up because of a few low numbers.

 

I think you're spot on about Rock/Cena. Cena needs to have the title going into the build to Wrestlemania, so Rock can cost him the title. But, as I've said so many times before, why can't we just let the thing play out before we decide it was the stupidest booking decision ever?

[Candyman]

wow.

 

awfully quiet.

 

I was thinking the board would be bombarded with WWE Hate/Love here.

 

I know. This was the first time in months I was able to watch Raw live and could check the boards without worrying about spoilers, and there wasn't any discussion anyway.

 

Anybody else notice how early it ended? It only went 3 minutes past 11...usually it's at least 7-8 minutes. I wonder if the Jackman/Ziggler/Vickie thing was supposed to last longer...Jackman seemed pretty amped and rushing through everything.

[djthefunkchris]

Was it me, or did Punk look overly... I don't know, jumpy?

[20LEgend]

I enjoyed Raw, wonder where they're going with Miz/ Truth, they've sure as hell grabbed my attention for another week.

[Jaysin]

I enjoyed Raw, wonder where they're going with Miz/ Truth, they've sure as hell grabbed my attention for another week.

 

New nWo

[Nedew]

Candyman, i hope you realise that you are part of the IWC. You're a wrestling fan posting on an internet forum about wrestling. The IWC aren't one big monolithic group with Scott Keith or Dave Meltzer or whoever as king - they (we) all have different opinions on all sorts of things. You can't just broadly go "they think ____".

 

As for 'why can't we all just wait and see how it pans out?' - are you seriously expecting everyone only comment on things from at least a year ago so that we can all comment with hindsight? Is instantly analysis and reaction not allowed? We'll sit back and look at the big picture once the big picture has happened. We might change our opinion over time, we might not. We'll see when we get there.

[Jaysin]

Lol, yeah, I was worried that this was going to turn into another Daniel Bryan situation where people thought it was legit for weeks and weeks...I'm glad they didn't make us wait as long this time.

 

I was only saying it because there were people on this site saying they believed it was a legit firing and I don't remember who it was, but one of them was rather aggressive about it.

[UkWrestleFan]

New nWo

 

Hopefully

 

Nash, Miz & Truth as a starting point would be good.