The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Astil]

Didn't Henry win the Arnold Strongman...something or something similar in the early 2000s? Fairly sure that's where the nickname comes from, not the Olympics.

 

EDIT: Arnold Strongman Classic 2002, apparently.

 

I was gonna post this. was fairly sure the big E didnt just hand him the nickname.

[juggaloninjalee]

I honestly don't see what else I could book Daniel Bryan as, besides an Underdog... at least where the main title is concerned. Tag Teams, or lesser titles, not so limited... but if he's going up against people like Big Show or Mark Henry... I don't care if he's billed as the best submission specialist in the world, he's going to be "the underdog" no matter what they do with that. Just like anyone his size would be. It's not that people don't think he can pull it off so much as they look at 7' vs. 5'2" (or at least he looks around that), and go... woah... I don't know if I'd want to be in there, if I were him. The weight difference alone is just plain scarry.... what if one of them slips and falls on him the wrong way?

 

Just saying.

 

HBK wasn't very big but when he faced guys that were much bigger he was hardly considered an underdog. He was a legit threat to Takers streak, and if in the ring with Henry or Big Show he is probably the favorite. Size alone isn't the main reason to book a guy as an underdog.

 

Nobody trains their whole life to be number 14.

 

To be fair, I do like Mark Henry and his latest run but psssssh, if WWE can get away with billing 1996's 14th best weight lifter as the world's strongest man then there is no reason for them to bill anyone else as anything less than super elite at what they do.

 

Ok so they should change Henrys gimmick to WRESTLINGS Strongest Man then. 14th best in the world while injured is still pretty amazing. Dude made the Olympic team. That in itself is an accomplishment!

[djthefunkchris]

HBK wasn't very big but when he faced guys that were much bigger he was hardly considered an underdog. He was a legit threat to Takers streak, and if in the ring with Henry or Big Show he is probably the favorite. Size alone isn't the main reason to book a guy as an underdog.

Surely your not comparing HBK to Daniel bryan... HBK was buffed like crazy when he "got there", steriods or whatever. HBK become a living legend when he come back at the size he is now (and off steriods), and Bryan is surely years away from something like that...pluss HBK even looks big compared to Bryan.

 

I'm specifically talking about the here and now. Bryan isn't booked to be the best at anything, and he hasn't really demonstrated being the best at anything. The submissions is great, and depending on what he uses, it will be a great way for him to win... but he's still going to be the Underdog. I can't think of anyone that thinks he has a chance (I'm talking about people I know that watch it, personally). On that same note, I don't know anyone that's not going to root for him.

Ok so they should change Henrys gimmick to WRESTLINGS Strongest Man then. 14th best in the world while injured is still pretty amazing. Dude made the Olympic team. That in itself is an accomplishment!

 

He didn't get the name from that anyways, as I'm sure you're aware of after the posts reguarding that. I think he still has a record that hasn't been beat, if anyone wants to look it up.

 

But yeah... I don't know where anyone would get the idea that he is a "failed" weightlifter from, totally agree with you.

[juggaloninjalee]

Surely your not comparing HBK to Daniel bryan... HBK was buffed like crazy when he "got there", steriods or whatever. HBK become a living legend when he come back at the size he is now (and off steriods), and Bryan is surely years away from something like that...pluss HBK even looks big compared to Bryan.

 

I'm specifically talking about the here and now. Bryan isn't booked to be the best at anything, and he hasn't really demonstrated being the best at anything. The submissions is great, and depending on what he uses, it will be a great way for him to win... but he's still going to be the Underdog. I can't think of anyone that thinks he has a chance (I'm talking about people I know that watch it, personally). On that same note, I don't know anyone that's not going to root for him.

 

I was just pointing out the size of Bryan. I know he isn't on HBK's level.

 

I agree he is the underdog and will be for awhile until he is booked to solidify a position in the main event.

 

Took CM Punk quite some time and a couple title runs before he was considered a WWE main eventer too. So this title reign for Bryan is nothing more than a feel good moment for the Bryan fans. Wait and see what happens over the next year or 2 before discrediting Daniel Bryan as a main eventer. He may not be an underdog in 2 years.

[BurningHamster]

Surely your not comparing HBK to Daniel bryan... HBK was buffed like crazy when he "got there", steriods or whatever. HBK become a living legend when he come back at the size he is now (and off steriods), and Bryan is surely years away from something like that...pluss HBK even looks big compared to Bryan.

 

I've never seen HBK in person, but I've been up close to D Bry and TV does not do him justice. Dude was WAY more built when I saw him than you would think from watching him on TV.

 

I'm specifically talking about the here and now. Bryan isn't booked to be the best at anything, and he hasn't really demonstrated being the best at anything.

 

Neither has Mark Henry, I stand corrected on where his nickname comes from but winning a second rate strongman contest a decade ago against not particularly elite competition doesn't demonstrate being the strongest man in the world.

 

Also, to be fair, I think D Bry has demonstrated himself to be the best vegan in the world if not the best straight up wrestler this side of Guerrero and Benoit's deaths. Yeah I'm being a fanboy but heck, if they can come up with these nicknames and backstories and ways of putting over mediocre workers the least they can do is acknowledge Daniel Bryan being awesome, which is a fact.

 

But yeah... I don't know where anyone would get the idea that he is a "failed" weightlifter from, totally agree with you.

 

I was being a little tongue in cheek calling him a "failed" weightlifter, but the fact remains he was never an elite top level strength athlete. USA didn't do well at the 1996 games in weightlifting, 14th with an injury isn't winning Gold in wrestling with a broken neck so Mark Henry can compare his achievements to Kurt Angle's, hang his turkey sized head in shame like the failure he is and sob into a buffet.

[milamber]

Compare DB now to his look in NXT when he started with WWE. He looks stronger and less nerdy

 

My fantasy booking was intended to use Jericho to elevate Punk to Cena/Orton status and use Henry, Barrett, Punk & Jericho to put DB over as a permanent main eventer/upper midcarder. But it would only work if the WWE were to have total faith in him. DB could be a huge player in the company with the right push.

[bigtplaystew]

Daniel Bryan has evolved into an excellent WWE-level worker. I don't want to name names due to fear of gross retaliatory anger... but he's way past many of wrestling's legends when they were at the same point in their careers.

 

The guy is simply one of the best workers I have EVER seen. His match quality is great. I've seen the guy blow the roof of of gymnasiums and I've seen him perform at the higher levels of the game.

 

Is he the most CHARISMATIC or most POPULAR? Hell no. But the work quality is right there with ANYONE on that roster. A few more years and some development and I think he's something very very special myself.

[Blackman]

A quick question: has any promotion ever done a 60 minute iron man tag match? It could be so awesome. As far as I know it's never been done. Obviously WWE will never hold iron man matches again as it's just not good entertainment value, but I have high hopes for indy promotions.

 

As far as Bryan is concerned. The American Dragon is an ROH product, as pedigree that is worth something, so it seems. Mr. Pepsi Plunge (aka CM Punk) comes from the same ballpark. Mickie James was a very decent diva worker as well. McGuinness also went to TNA I think. It's just an observation, really.

[Adam_Starr36]

Is no one watching Smackdown! ..? I'm finding it hilarious what they seem to be doing with Daniel Bryan.. It's like he's turning, but not quite there, I don't know, guess we'll find out in the Main Event.

 

I guess the underdog route may be thrown away afterall, as that's what people seem to think based on the last 2 pages of this discussion...

 

A heel Daniel Bryan.. This could go well, but never pictured him as a heel, ever.. Oh well..

 

The Booker T crap early on, was.. Crap! I know their developing Cody Rhodes, skills and popularity both, but I'd love to see one last run of Booker T with either the World Championship, or the Intercontinental Championship, but the World title seems embroiled already...

[Rone Rivendale]

Even though I knew what DB was going to do 5 secs before he did it, I still loved it! lol

 

He is definitely going down the heel route. But not in the usual way. He is morphing into the ultimate weasel.

[milamber]

SD was better than Raw again.

 

Booker v Rhodes - Rhodes got good heat as he entered. Booker can still go even if he's a bit slow. Next up is Goldust. I assume Rhodes will be facing one veteran after another as he brings prestige to the IC Title.

 

DiBiase v Hunico - Hunico is awesome and DiBiase is finally getting over with the fans so this was a good match.

 

Air Boom v Epico/Primo - Epico, Primo and Rosa are fantastic. The foundation is set for a better tag division in 2012. All we need now is a new heel tag team to battle against the Usos (Kings of Wrestling?).

 

Big Show v Bryan - I think it's only a temporary heel turn. They needed Bryan to be crafty and more agressive so he seems capable of beating guys like Show. Henry's commentary was hilarious.

[djthefunkchris]

Daniel Bryan has evolved into an excellent WWE-level worker. I don't want to name names due to fear of gross retaliatory anger... but he's way past many of wrestling's legends when they were at the same point in their careers.

 

The guy is simply one of the best workers I have EVER seen. His match quality is great. I've seen the guy blow the roof of of gymnasiums and I've seen him perform at the higher levels of the game.

 

Is he the most CHARISMATIC or most POPULAR? Hell no. But the work quality is right there with ANYONE on that roster. A few more years and some development and I think he's something very very special myself.

 

Might surprise you that I'm in agreement with you. My concern isn't his abilities, but where he is popularity wise/what people see him as over-all. I didn't get to see Smackdown, but I really hope they don't turn him into a "weezle" because it's not the right way to go with him... I don't care if he can play the part better then the part he's playing now or not.

 

Far as his entertainment value goes, to me he speaks better then 75% of the roster already. He's no CM Punk or John Cena as far as that goes, but he's definately better then Cody, Dibiase, etc. I honestly think he talks better then Randy Orton.

 

The only thing I would like to see them do with him, is show off his actual wrestling skill against other's, showing how superior he is inside the ring. Solidify him as a "real" threat that doesn't have to cheat to win... Later, after that, they can let him cheat and do whatever else to win, but I'd rather see them build him up right to start with...

 

For the record, my opinion comes from knowing that it's much easier to build someone from a "heel" position, because you can always make the other guy look better (they won't lose their position) by having the bad guy cheat. Builds him up as a legitimate threat, if the ref's head is turned... I'd rather see him shown as a legitimate threat, like they did with Swagger... Where he don't have to cheat to win (at least to start with).

[Basmat01]

All I got from Smackdown was that Daniel was given NO CHANCE that he would retain. I dont see it as a "Heel" turn but Daniel will do whatever he can to keep the title, Not cheating to win but more playing it smart.

 

I thought Mark Henry was good to hear from during the mainevent

[Jaysin]

Far as his entertainment value goes, to me he speaks better then 75% of the roster already. He's no CM Punk or John Cena as far as that goes, but he's definately better then Cody, Dibiase, etc. I honestly think he talks better then Randy Orton.

 

Orton is awful on the mic though, so it's not really an accomplishment to be better than him at it

[crownsy]

Even though I knew what DB was going to do 5 secs before he did it, I still loved it! lol

 

He is definitely going down the heel route. But not in the usual way. He is morphing into the ultimate weasel.

 

yea, the problem is that's the ONLY kind of heel in the WWE now.

 

Ziggler- Weasel, cheats to win

 

Miz- Weasel, cheats to win

 

Del Rio - Weasel, cheats to win

 

Christian - weaseal, cheats to win

 

Cody Rhodes - weasel. cheats to win

 

Heck, even mark henry, who was interesting because he played the heel who everyone was legit scared of, was booked as a weasel towards the end of his run with big show.

 

 

Now, Jericho is still TBD, but the last thing we need is another weasel heel in advance of chris, who will likely be a weasel heel as well.

 

It's really hurting the product, because no Heel goes over a face clean at the moment. Thus the heels have no credibility, because you know there taking the loss outside of a screwy finish. That's why henry was so refreshing. He was a bully, and a classic heel, but the rest of the roster could be beat at anytime by him.

 

Another problem for Heel Bryan- when is the last time, in today's WWE, that a upper midcard babyface tapped to a heel?

 

The WWE has this odd booking rule that a babyface tapping will somehow ruin that babyface forever in the eyes of the fans.

 

I for one would rather see a face tap to a heel who is a submission specialist once in awhile and afterwards be laike "yea, made a mistake and got caught. Hey, thats what the guy does"

 

It would make matches between a submission heel and a face so much more entertaining. Right now when those match ups happen (this especially hurts del rio at the moment) I can't get invested because i know the end of the match is:

 

Heel tainted pin

Face wins clean

[Teh_Showtime]

Cody Rhodes just beat Booker T cleanly last night, he doesn't need to cheat to win. Wade also has some clean wins too.

[crownsy]

Cody Rhodes just beat Booker T cleanly last night, he doesn't need to cheat to win. Wade also has some clean wins too.

 

He beat a guy who came out of retirement specifically to do the job for him. Not exactly the same as beating a legit face upper mid/ main eventer clean, was it?

 

I mean, all credit to booker for doing that for cody, a class act for sure, but that doesn't change my assertion.

 

Also, what "clean" wins does barret have over orton? he has pins, sure. but they were caused by outside interference, randy snapping and getting DQ'd, ect. He was 0-2 in matches that mattered during that feud.

 

His only clean "win" over randy was a set spot where he tossed him down the stairs, and that wasen't even technically a win for wade, it was a no contest.

 

And specifics aside, I still say one of the main problems with the WWE right now is that EVERY STINKING HEEL, minus henry and potentially Jericho, is playing the exact same kind of heel. The one who is a coward at heart, and cheats to win.

 

What happened to other types of heels who are legitimate threats outside of screwy finishes? I'm not saying the heel has to be an upstanding person, but where is the guy who is allowed to play up the "You might not like me, but i'm too damn good to ignore" angle?

 

the WWE heel scene lacks for compelling characters not because of the talent of the heels, but because of the booking where faces cannot be threatened simply on talent, it has to be because the guy wins via' cheating.

 

and it hurts the product. it makes it simplistic and hard to get involved in at times.

[djthefunkchris]

I think you guys are painting with too broad of a brush. Sure, there's some people who are genuinely angry at Jericho. But there's a lot of people who aren't angry but disappointed that the return wasn't more interesting or entertaining.

 

The underlined part is exactly what we were discussing. I get it, but TO ME, that is specifically what he wanted to do to "alot of people". True, I think he was shooting for anger more then dissapointment, but dissapointment works almost as well.

 

What, we were saying... Well, in case it's just my opinion, what I was saying is I think THAT was his biggest intention. To come out and do exactly the opposite of what people were hoping for... People wanted it to be interesting and entertaining, and he gave us the exact opposite... Nothing. In the process he turned everyone against him, and I don't think he cares if its "good" or "bad" heat, to be honest. He's got something up his sleeve I believe. Perhaps it's going to be what he should have done last time, I don't know, nor have a clue yet. I am hoping for the ultimate "CM Punk vs. Jericho" being a "The IWC vs the Anti-IWC" type battle. To me, it's creative, and puts the IWC in the spotlight for a change, and might even get more people involved in discussions like this on the internet, who knows. Either way, at least they are addressing the IWC, instead of ignoring it (if this is what they are doing, that is).

[OldStingberg]

The underlined part is exactly what we were discussing.

Not really, but whatever.

 

I get it, but TO ME, that is specifically what he wanted to do to "alot of people". True, I think he was shooting for anger more then dissapointment, but dissapointment works almost as well.

I'm not sure how much mileage an entertainment product gets out of disappointing people. Considering the WWE's ratings and PPV buys, I'm going to say they're probably not an exception to the rule. And if the WWE can't create effective villains in their product without genuinely disappointing people, I don't think that speaks too highly of their creative abilities.

 

I am hoping for the ultimate "CM Punk vs. Jericho" being a "The IWC vs the Anti-IWC" type battle. To me, it's creative, and puts the IWC in the spotlight for a change, and might even get more people involved in discussions like this on the internet, who knows. Either way, at least they are addressing the IWC, instead of ignoring it (if this is what they are doing, that is).

It's good to hope, I suppose.

 

Despite how much I've hoped otherwise, I just don't think the product is very good right now. I think they've got a ton of talented workers, but the people in charge are just killing the product. And considering I'm going to be starting a new job that will having me working nights for the foreseeable future, I doubt I'm going to go to the trouble of finding ways of keeping up with the product.

[djthefunkchris]

Not really, but whatever.

 

 

I'm not sure how much mileage an entertainment product gets out of disappointing people. Considering the WWE's ratings and PPV buys, I'm going to say they're probably not an exception to the rule. And if the WWE can't create effective villains in their product without genuinely disappointing people, I don't think that speaks too highly of their creative abilities.

 

 

It's good to hope, I suppose.

 

Despite how much I've hoped otherwise, I just don't think the product is very good right now. I think they've got a ton of talented workers, but the people in charge are just killing the product. And considering I'm going to be starting a new job that will having me working nights for the foreseeable future, I doubt I'm going to go to the trouble of finding ways of keeping up with the product.

 

I understand your points, and I in no way say that this was "the way" to go with it. I don't know yet, of course, but if they do something really creative with it, it could possibly get everyone back on board.

 

As I said before, the last time Jericho showed up to "Save Us", I was highly dissapointed, and I didn't even think that highly of him back then. I figured I would be dissapointed this time as well, but it was about the same.

 

Watching him come out on The Rock, they let the rock cut him off way back then... "Who are you again?" "Is that what you think?" "IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT YOU THINK!"

 

When he come out to "Save Us", I thought it was going to be from the "boring product" the WWE has become, but instead he comes out and says "From you Randy Orton".

 

TO ME, it looks like they let him do what he wants for his "Big Debut", and then he just falls into whatever they put him in. So he's always a let down on the first day.... at least to me.

 

I'm just hoping (as you said, we can always hope), that they actually do something with this, especially with the girl involved... I'm thinking Stephanie McMahan, and that they have a storyline already ready for him that actually makes sense to the big buildup.

 

I'm not going to get my hopes too high though, just keeping the thought open. IT could end up to be the same old same... and he will just be the best he can be in whatever storyline they put him in, and at least if the story sucks, he won't.

[juggaloninjalee]

I really don't think Stephanie McMahon is going to be a big part of WWE TV for a long time. With her child being so young I just can't see them having her travel and such. Maybe every couple months she is on tv but I don't think there will be anything to the woman. If there is I don't think Steph will be it.

[TakerNGN74]

A Heel Daniel Bryan would be amazing if they did it right, back around 2006 when he was in ROH they gave him their World Title and had him be a heel and it is probably my favoriote time for ROH in general because of all the talent and because you had a great World Champion. However if Bryan were to turn heel in WWE I have a feeling that they wouldn't let him be the heel that he was in ROH not that he couldn't be in WWE but WWE seems to not like to do something if another promotion already did it.

 

So a Heel Daniel Bryan can be done as long as the writers give him the creative freedom to be creative with it and do it the way that it should be done and the way that he would probably want to do it.

[bigtplaystew]

I really don't think Stephanie McMahon is going to be a big part of WWE TV for a long time. With her child being so young I just can't see them having her travel and such. Maybe every couple months she is on tv but I don't think there will be anything to the woman. If there is I don't think Steph will be it.

 

I dunno tho, man. You see those workout photos?? Huh? Why you think she's working out so much? For her health??

 

:-)

[Teh_Showtime]

What workout photos? The old ones with Dana white there?

[bigtplaystew]

http://www.ringsidenews.com/photo/6166/005/albumid_2013/

 

 

she's getting ready for wm28????? hmmm?