The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Arrows]

That actually says it all. One match had mixed reviews from the "buyers" (us), so they should have sticked by that. Doing a 2nd is absurd. I'm with you on the younger guy thing. Having a Taker vs. Daniel Bryan would be much more entertaining for me, and much better when it comes to actuall in ring work. Just an example.

 

Since I saw this, I'll throw on my gripes about the situation, because this is the match I was calling for. Daniel Bryan beat The Big Show, Mark Henry, both of them together in a cage match, took out Orton, beat Sheamus by DQ, survived the f'n Elimination Chamber, and the great threat at the end of the road is....

 

Sheamus, Jinder Mahal's curtain jerking buddy.

 

Who cares? Anyone? Does anyone, anywhere in the world, think Sheamus is more of a challenge than the Elimination Chamber? This is a serious downgrade, and when Bryan does the job it's gonna look really stupid.

 

Taker should've won the rumble, and been in Sheamus' spot post chamber match, without the contact. The very idea that Taker chose Bryan for Mania would have EVERYONE mocking Bryan all the way through to Mania. Taker would need to put in absolutely zero work for this to go over huge.

 

I can't even begin to imagine the celebration from Bryan if he managed to win, but that'd be the last time anyone could ever call him a joke champion. Something he still needs.

[Jaysin]

Pretty sure if Undertaker won the rumble I wouldn't watch Wrestlemania at all. I'm pretty happy Sheamus won. I'm glad a fresh faced bad ass won the rumble.

 

Also, I noticed something while watching Elimination Chamber. Del Rio would make a great face. He has the charisma and the mic skills. He could easily turn the cockiness into cheers I think.

[Arrows]

Pretty sure if Undertaker won the rumble I wouldn't watch Wrestlemania at all. I'm pretty happy Sheamus won. I'm glad a fresh faced bad ass won the rumble.

 

Also, I noticed something while watching Elimination Chamber. Del Rio would make a great face. He has the charisma and the mic skills. He could easily turn the cockiness into cheers I think.

 

Sheamus isn't bad ass though.The most he's accomplished since running away from a bunch of jobbers like a pansy, was winning the rumble. Otherwise, he's been beating up a jobber and was Mark Henry's punching bag to use to get over.

 

How exactly is Sheamus in ANY way, a credible challenger for a world title, at Wrestle Mania? Any other PPV, fine. All the Bryan build up, to Sheamus, at Mania? Stupid.

[bigtplaystew]

Pretty sure if Undertaker won the rumble I wouldn't watch Wrestlemania at all. I'm pretty happy Sheamus won. I'm glad a fresh faced bad ass won the rumble.

 

Also, I noticed something while watching Elimination Chamber. Del Rio would make a great face. He has the charisma and the mic skills. He could easily turn the cockiness into cheers I think.

 

i actually agree with that. I think Wade Barrett could possibly make a decent face turn as well.

[shawn michaels]

Sheamus isn't bad ass though.The most he's accomplished since running away from a bunch of jobbers like a pansy, was winning the rumble. Otherwise, he's been beating up a jobber and was Mark Henry's punching bag to use to get over.

 

How exactly is Sheamus in ANY way, a credible challenger for a world title, at Wrestle Mania? Any other PPV, fine. All the Bryan build up, to Sheamus, at Mania? Stupid.

 

Amen to this.

[Tha Black Phenom]

The way they've used Sheamus as of late has indeed made him look massively underwhelming, you would think if he's the Rumble winner AND going for the B-show's major title, they'd at least try to spice it up a bit. Instead they expect us to still care about the Big Show, well... suit themselves, I say.

 

I sort of kept thinking Taker should've faced someone else 'till now, but honestly.. HIAC, it sells itself. I never thought they'd jump that hurdle but.. heck. On a rare occasion, I went on twitter the other day while HIAC was trending and from the way it looks, it's gonna get a lot of viewers, casual or defunct, sucked in. It's not even about the streak or Taker's opponent anymore to them, it's all about that structure and the fact both of them are pioneers of that match type.

[Arrows]

The way they've used Sheamus as of late has indeed made him look massively underwhelming, you would think if he's the Rumble winner AND going for the B-show's major title, they'd at least try to spice it up a bit. Instead they expect us to still care about the Big Show, well... suit themselves, I say.

 

I sort of kept thinking Taker should've faced someone else 'till now, but honestly.. HIAC, it sells itself. I never thought they'd jump that hurdle but.. heck. On a rare occasion, I went on twitter the other day while HIAC was trending and from the way it looks, it's gonna get a lot of viewers, casual or defunct, sucked in. It's not even about the streak or Taker's opponent anymore to them, it's all about that structure and the fact both of them are pioneers of that match type.

 

Yeah, but a far over the hill wrestle once a year Undertaker vs. a past his prime wrestle twice a year Triple H in a PG Heck In A Cell match, isn't gonna be what people are envisioning. Brutality is gone. The cell means nothing. Big cage. Big whoop.

[Tha Black Phenom]

Well obviously people are hoping for more than what we would expect. A lot of fans on there were flatout saying 'gorefest or bust'; now while I don't think they'll go all out, they oughta give us something at least to make it memorable. This is probably the last big match for both of them, they won't settle for PG semantics.

[Slim Jim]

If there are any two guys on WWE's roster who don't have to follow the guidelines of what is acceptable and what isn't, Triple H and 'Taker are those two guys. Put them together in the same match, at Wrestlemania no less, and do you really think if there is something they want to do that they won't just do it? Obviously we aren't going to get a repeat of Mick Foley '96 but I think basically the match will go down however 'Taker and Triple H want it to, regardless of what any "producers" say, or even Vince himself.

[lazorbeak]

Gotta say I have no interest in Triple H vs. Taker at Wrestlemania again, especially considering we had two straight years of the (superior) HBK/Undertaker feud just before this. That said, this match is almost guaranteed to become the greatest Hell in a Cell match involving the Undertaker in Wrestlemania history, assuming it can top that classic that was Taker/Bossman from Wrestlemania 15.

[milamber]

How exactly is Sheamus in ANY way, a credible challenger for a world title, at Wrestle Mania? Any other PPV, fine. All the Bryan build up, to Sheamus, at Mania? Stupid.

 

Sheamus has probably had the biggest winning streaks of 2011 (at least on SD), bar a few losses to cheating heels. Only problem is that most of the wins didn't require enough effort because he mostly wrestled midcarders. And he came in late in the Rumble so beating Jericho at the end was the only thing he did of note there. He is massively over with the fans, though. Match could go either way.

[milamber]

The way I would book HHH v Taker (HIAC, Michaels as guest ref, loser retires) - Keep it short. Make it fast and furious with both guys going all out trying to end the other as quick as possible. Have Taker kick out of a couple of pedigrees at 2 and half counts. Then goad HHH into making a mistake and slap on Hell's Gate. Have HHH refuse to tap and instead pass out. When he comes to, Taker is on the top of the cell celebrating. Michaels (guest ref) tries to console HHH saying "you did your best." HHH snaps, climbs up and throws Taker off the Cell (only if they can do it safely given the recent spate of injuries). This would throw Taker's ability to ever wrestle again into doubt. Or if they want to turn Taker heel, have him counter and throw HHH off the Cell instead and threaten to do the same to Michaels if doesn't back off. Then later in the year run a storyline with Taker searching for a wrestler good enough to beat him.

[LoNdOn]

The way I would book HHH v Taker (HIAC, Michaels as guest ref, loser retires) - Keep it short. Make it fast and furious with both guys going all out trying to end the other as quick as possible. Have Taker kick out of a couple of pedigrees at 2 and half counts. Then goad HHH into making a mistake and slap on Hell's Gate. Have HHH refuse to tap and instead pass out. When he comes to, Taker is on the top of the cell celebrating. Michaels (guest ref) tries to console HHH saying "you did your best." HHH snaps, climbs up and throws Taker off the Cell (only if they can do it safely given the recent spate of injuries). This would throw Taker's ability to ever wrestle again into doubt. Or if they want to turn Taker heel, have him counter and throw HHH off the Cell instead and threaten to do the same to Michaels if doesn't back off. Then later in the year run a storyline with Taker searching for a wrestler good enough to beat him.

 

.............enter Yoshi Tatsu

[shawn michaels]

The way I would book HHH v Taker (HIAC, Michaels as guest ref, loser retires) - Keep it short. Make it fast and furious with both guys going all out trying to end the other as quick as possible. Have Taker kick out of a couple of pedigrees at 2 and half counts. Then goad HHH into making a mistake and slap on Hell's Gate. Have HHH refuse to tap and instead pass out. When he comes to, Taker is on the top of the cell celebrating. Michaels (guest ref) tries to console HHH saying "you did your best." HHH snaps, climbs up and throws Taker off the Cell (only if they can do it safely given the recent spate of injuries). This would throw Taker's ability to ever wrestle again into doubt. Or if they want to turn Taker heel, have him counter and throw HHH off the Cell instead and threaten to do the same to Michaels if doesn't back off. Then later in the year run a storyline with Taker searching for a wrestler good enough to beat him.

 

Yeah...i don't think so. Its' Taker final match, or so it seems. At one point, the guy has to retire. And when he does so, i hope the streek is kept alive. But don't count on any future plans, this one is probably his last match.

[bigtplaystew]

I just have this ugly feeling that HHH ends the streak...

[juggaloninjalee]

I just have this ugly feeling that HHH ends the streak...

 

I hope you are wrong as he is the last guy I want to see end the streak. That would be so terrible! It wouldn't help anyone involved.

[shawn michaels]

I hope you are wrong as he is the last guy I want to see end the streak. That would be so terrible! It wouldn't help anyone involved.

 

Yeah, but it's HHH...spotlight hugger, people screwer....it's possible!

[bigtplaystew]

All this talk of "the end" and all that. I don't know, man. I just don't see the Undertaker winning his retirement match. And I think this is his last one. I hope it isn't, but it probably is.

 

Most people in the "IWC" seem to be of the opinion that a young heel should take the streak. I generally have felt that way to.

 

But is that better? Does a Wade Barrett or a Daniel Bryan really move up to that huge next level taking out the Undertaker? I don't know. We could talk about future Barret or future Bryan, but think of those type of characters now. Think of The Miz or Del Rio or any of those guys beating Undertaker clean at WRESTLEMANIA. Do you honestly, if you search your knowledgeable wrestling brain, think a booker makes that finish and feels good about it? I don't think I do when I think about it.

 

Does a CM Punk or a John Cena get further with it? I dont think so. In fact, I think those two would best be served facing each other at a WM main event down the road. I kind of see those two as "above" the streak. they don't need it to get any further along. John Cena and CM Punk need mainstream exposure and recognition to take their games to the next level.

 

Now you have to look at upper-midcarderish faces. And there, it just makes absolutely no sense for 'Taker to job to a guy that hasn't yet gotten over on his own. You've got this decades old streak and you're gonna use that to build who? R Truth? Kofi Kingston? That just seems completely unrealistic to me.

[ScottMulhern]

I just have this ugly feeling that HHH ends the streak...

 

Me too, the way the storyline is playing out at the moment, with Undertaker (who won last year) trying to goad a reluctant HHH into the match would indicate that the wrestler being goaded would come out on top.

 

The second HBK/Undertaker match build featured HBK goading 'Taker, costing him the Title at Elimination Chamber, causing him to accept the challenge and ultimately prevail. This time Undertaker is in the HBK spot and HHH is now the Undertaker. If the Undertaker wins it doesn't really give the storyline a satisfying conclusion.

 

I ask myself why did HHH beat CM Punk a few months back? He hasn't wrestled a match since, granted Punk won his Title back but the whole HHH vs CM Punk thing led to a half fued between John Laurinaitis and Punk that has ultimately been dropped and forgotten about now.

 

With the rumours of the WWE brass being concerned about the lack of star power at the moment I think they're missing a trick not using HHH and Undertaker to elevate top stars. HHH should be putting someone over at WM, I would say CM Punk getting his win back, that's not to say I don't want to see Punk vs Jericho, but the whole HHH vs Punk storyline didn't have a conclusion, for me at least. Why not have him face The Miz? Did the Miz/R-Truth invading storyline ever lead to anything (other than jobbing to The Rock)? What happened after HHH beat the heck out of them? Nothing. Why not have him face ADR? Or Ziggler?

 

Undertaker should be facing, and beating in a competative match (if it's possible at this point in his career), someone like Wade Barrett or Drew McIntyre. Even losing to someone like Sheamus or Dolph Ziggler, who are ready to main event and get pushed to the stars.

 

As a side point, I was talking to my brother about this the other day, he doesn't watch wrestling now, he hasn't since around Wrestlemania 18, but he stated that the Undertaker's final match should be against Kane. In a perfect world this is hard to diagree with, although the quality of the match would be questionable.

 

I wonder if the WWE management are not confident in anyone other than HHH to carry Undertaker to a good match because he's too beat up or past it at this point, an issue that is indicative of their current problems.

[Teh_Showtime]

As for ending the streak, Taker wanted Orton to end it at WM21 but Vince said no.

 

Things change, but the streak is an even bigger deal now so letting a guy who wrestles once a year end it won't happen.

[bigtplaystew]

As for ending the streak, Taker wanted Orton to end it at WM21 but Vince said no.

 

Things change, but the streak is an even bigger deal now so letting a guy who wrestles once a year end it won't happen.

 

Good point. But wm21 was a long time ago. Undertaker was still a big dog in the company and was on TV every week.

 

I'm just not seeing anyone else who could end it and have it mean something. HHH ending it doesn't mean much either, but at least there's a story and a history there. And HHH IS still around. I'm not saying it's the best decision, but I do think it may be the decision they make.

[djthefunkchris]

I just don't know who it could possibly help, that a normal win against The Undertaker at an event (or show) outside of Wrestlemania wouldn't do just as well.

 

You could put Bryan or Miz or whomever and win clean. As was said before, it wouldn't put Bryan or Miz in any better shape then what they are already.

 

Matter of fact, someone ending the streak at this point would probably hurt their character more then help them. Even if HHH win's, he will lose (for example). Either way, someone winning without a huge build up over time (an actual feud leading up to it), won't get any help from the win.

 

I feel the same way about The Rock right now. He's no more then a (very popular) comedy act to me. Cena beatin' him won't help Cena, and Rock beating Cena doesn't mean anything to me (it's what I would expect). They would have to have alot more then the normal stuff they been doing, for it to mean anything at all to me, which won't happen because The Rock isn't in it for any length of time, pluss, it's pretty much too late now anyways.... and Cena can try, but no one can make a one sided "Big" feud... It takes two people actually confronting each other (not over screen), to make a feud big enough to make that much of a difference. Sure, Cena can rattle an audience as well as anyone, can probably even get some support for this if he keeps going the way he is, but when it comes down to it, The Rock would have to contribute much more then he has to really make it worthwhile.

 

In other words, although I really want to see all the people I just mentioned at Wrestlemania, It just won't mean anything at all to me come the next Monday night.

 

"I gave it my all, I have much respect for The Rock/The Undertaker after this!" No matter who wins, that just won't impact me in any way, because it just doesn't matter. I'm not invested in either feud.

[Arrows]

The ONLY man on the WWE roster the streak ending would've helped enough to be worth it is Bryan. Wade's NEVER going to be anything amazing. Cena ensured that. Miz doesn't need it. Alberto doesn't need it.

 

Bryan's one of very few who could use it, and a massive over the top celebration, to really become that prick champ you just can't get rid of.

[juggaloninjalee]

As for ending the streak, Taker wanted Orton to end it at WM21 but Vince said no.

 

Things change, but the streak is an even bigger deal now so letting a guy who wrestles once a year end it won't happen.

 

I never knew that Taker wanted that to happen. Kind of crazy to think about.

 

I think that is a guy like Del Rio, Miz, Daniel Bryan, Sheamus, or even Wade Barrett beat Taker then it could help their character. They could play on it every year around Mania saying they did what 20 other men couldn't. They ended the Undertaker. Plus for a couple months after they ended the streak they could use it as a major selling point for why they are the best! WWE would have to book them strong in that time though to solidify them in that spot at the top of the card.

 

Cena is solidified at the top right now. He could lose 12 ppvs in a row to major guys and people would still probably think he is the top guy in the WWE. To me ending the streak could put someone on this level if done right and I think it is very possible.

[djthefunkchris]

The ONLY man on the WWE roster the streak ending would've helped enough to be worth it is Bryan. Wade's NEVER going to be anything amazing. Cena ensured that. Miz doesn't need it. Alberto doesn't need it.

 

Bryan's one of very few who could use it, and a massive over the top celebration, to really become that prick champ you just can't get rid of.

 

No one would buy it, outside of the few people that knew of Bryan from before his WWE days. Let me put it another way, the majority wouldn't buy it. Not buying it means it would hurt, rather then help someone like Bryan.

 

That's the biggest problem I really have with these discussions, is because people tend to think everyone is on the same wavelength. I would love to see someone like Bryan end the streak, I would mark out for it. I'm not going to delude myself into thinking a "Win" is a "Win" though, when in reality I can't think of a single soul that I know personally, that watch's WWE, that would buy into a Bryan win. Matter of fact, I see them getting mad and NOT watching WWE for a while, if not quit watching all together over something like that.

 

I don't know why things like this seem so easy for someone like me to see, but seem to be so hard for people to get their minds around. You have a small handfull of people that actually think of Taker as washed up, the rest of the general public still thinks he's the greatest thing in wrestling today.

 

Now don't get me wrong... IF They would have started a Taker feud, that evolved each week, with Danial Bryan, and got us all invested in the feud (meaning, not just a video promo), then by all means it could end up being very helpful for him.... But to throw it together like they are with HHH and Taker, no matter who they throw it together with (HHH or anyone else), it's not going to do anything that a normal match win on TV wouldn't do.

 

Build up a feud that gets people all interested in it, even if the "heel" wins through devious measures, he would still benefit. Have them go head to head in a couple of tag match's, show the strengths and weakness of each character through proper storytelling, show us why it's important to the challenger to win, and why it's important to Taker to not lose.... then we might be able to discuss someone benefitting.

 

HHH vs. Undertaker, in all seriousness should end with Taker's streak being intact. Have a younger talent end it next year, and have them build up a proper storyline that goes on for month's before even bringing up the "Streak".... Meaning, have someone feud with Undertaker, have them lose a couple and win a couple. Have the fued start small and get larger as time goes on until Wrestlemania is almost upon them, then have Undertaker start mind games and the younger guy challenge him at Wrestlemania. Have Taker almost NOT take it serious, then lose to the younger guy. IF built right, I would applaud it.