The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[milamber]

Its a little disappointing that WWE cant seem to write an interesting heel turn that doesn't involve a guy becoming little more than a school yard bully.

 

Daniel Bryan being the exception because they took their time and put effort into scripting his sneaky underdog title defenses against Show & Henry, using AJ etc.

 

With Punk I almost wish they'd kept him as a face champion because I was enjoying it so much. He's an equally good heel but as you said, we're not seeing anything unique from Punk's turn as yet.

[Jaysin]

There was a bunch of sloppy botches. Meffew will have a field day with yesterday's Raw.

 

I don't care for Punk going after King but I guess they wanna go full heel turn by the winter's main PPVs so he can (presumably) fight The Rock at Wrestlemania. Easiest way to go full heel? Beat up Jerry Lawler.

 

Its a little disappointing that WWE cant seem to write an interesting heel turn that doesn't involve a guy becoming little more than a school yard bully.

 

So would that be a rematch from Royal Rumble or are you predicting Punk loses the belt before the Rumble?

[bigtplaystew]

Daniel Bryan being the exception because they took their time and put effort into scripting his sneaky underdog title defenses against Show & Henry, using AJ etc.

 

With Punk I almost wish they'd kept him as a face champion because I was enjoying it so much. He's an equally good heel but as you said, we're not seeing anything unique from Punk's turn as yet.

 

Yea I mean I got all excited about it because I thought it would be different. Punk's never been a classic babyface. So some minor adjustments could leave us with a more subtle, more interesting heel persona to watch on TV. Now we get the bully instead. That's fine I was just hoping for more.

[djthefunkchris]

No arguments from me. Although in the early days of Cable and Syndication most of it was a lack of proper audio capture equipment and is forgivable in a lot of circumstances. As it was fairly transparent that it was generic crowd noise to simulate a wrestling show, rather than legit crowd noise.

But I've seen more than a few on this board, and otherwise, buy into the questionable pop. It's 2012. This inexcusable at any level.

 

Sunlight, it disinfects. And they wouldn't do it if it didn't work.

 

Your example was Next though.... It's coming out of FCW, and it's just as obvious as your example of "early days" because of the fact you can see there isn't enough people to have that huge reaction, not even close... It sounds like thousands, and you can see they have less people then an Impact crowd. We all know it's done for Smackdown because it's pre-taped. What's worse is you go on to say something like "And people thought Ryback was getting over" as if showing a NXT example of Cena is proof that Ryback is not, when Ryback was just on RAW live, the very next day after you said that.

 

I can understand being upset about being tricked, if that's what happened to you, but you aren't really making a point about anything that everyone doesn't already know about Pro-Wrestling TV show's. I can sympathize with you, but I don't agree with your assumption, even remotely. For example: IF they put a promo of Ryback or Cena, or anyone, that crowd reaction will enhance the story they are trying to tell, it's going to be different... Even what we saw Monday, will be changed to enhance the reactions even more (adding in more crowd reaction, making it seem bigger).

 

So yes, I sympathize with your feelings, no I don't agree with your overall assessment of the situation.

[lazorbeak]

I don't know if I had a mild stroke this afternoon or what, but I actually laughed at a clip of those DB/Kane anger management sessions.

 

I love when ideas that sound ridiculous on the surface actually turn out to be entertaining.

 

Also, I know we're all past hating Triple H because it's not 2003, but seriously trips, the reason Foley, Flair, HBK, Edge, etc., can get a big, real reaction from a crowd that you can't is threefold. One, you're not as good as them on the mic. Two, you've based your entire character on being a super bad-ass or a funny super-bad-ass for the past 15 years, which kind of hurts sudden ploys for sympathy. Finally, everybody knows that unlike those other guys, who actually do have to move on and do something else with their lives, you're Vince McMahon's hand-picked successor and will almost assuredly be back in front of the camera in a few months and ready for a big match against somebody at Wrestlemania. So don't waste our time just because the Summerslam crowd didn't all spontaneously start weeping.

[shawn michaels]

I don't know if I had a mild stroke this afternoon or what, but I actually laughed at a clip of those DB/Kane anger management sessions.

 

I love when ideas that sound ridiculous on the surface actually turn out to be entertaining.

 

Also, I know we're all past hating Triple H because it's not 2003, but seriously trips, the reason Foley, Flair, HBK, Edge, etc., can get a big, real reaction from a crowd that you can't is threefold. One, you're not as good as them on the mic. Two, you've based your entire character on being a super bad-ass or a funny super-bad-ass for the past 15 years, which kind of hurts sudden ploys for sympathy. Finally, everybody knows that unlike those other guys, who actually do have to move on and do something else with their lives, you're Vince McMahon's hand-picked successor and will almost assuredly be back in front of the camera in a few months and ready for a big match against somebody at Wrestlemania. So don't waste our time just because the Summerslam crowd didn't all spontaneously start weeping.

 

Amen. I mean....really? Wasn't it bad enough that crickets could be heard at Summerslam after the "you tapped out" chants? No! He had to go at it again on Raw. Come on...everybody knows he will be back as soon as there is a big match he can put himself into. I mean...HBK had two great matches with Taker...HHH had to do the same. (well, he had to matches, bobody here saying they were great. ) Enough is enough! And this comes from a guy that doesn't hate trips. Hell, all that crying from him, and he'll probably face Lesnar in a rematch before Mania, let alone having a match with someone in Mania itself!

[bigtplaystew]

H's b.s. farewell was expected so it didn't really bother me one way or the other. I just didn't like that he said something along the lines of, "So let's cut to the chase. Am I gonna retire or what?"

 

...Then proceeded to talk for 10 more minutes.

[Jaysin]

H's b.s. farewell was expected so it didn't really bother me one way or the other. I just didn't like that he said something along the lines of, "So let's cut to the chase. Am I gonna retire or what?"

 

...Then proceeded to talk for 10 more minutes.

 

Everything Haitch does is over done, so that shouldn't be a shocker

[Rone Rivendale]

It would have worked better if he had done his sob story at SS like he did, and then NOT come back on Raw for a couple months. That would have given it some legitimacy. And then when he finally did come back to RAW, maybe the crowd would have been behind him when he said goodbye.

 

Like (almost) everything WWE does now, it was rushed.

[Makhai]

Your example was Next though.... It's coming out of FCW, and it's just as obvious as your example of "early days" because of the fact you can see there isn't enough people to have that huge reaction, not even close... It sounds like thousands, and you can see they have less people then an Impact crowd. We all know it's done for Smackdown because it's pre-taped. What's worse is you go on to say something like "And people thought Ryback was getting over" as if showing a NXT example of Cena is proof that Ryback is not, when Ryback was just on RAW live, the very next day after you said that.

 

I can understand being upset about being tricked, if that's what happened to you, but you aren't really making a point about anything that everyone doesn't already know about Pro-Wrestling TV show's. I can sympathize with you, but I don't agree with your assumption, even remotely. For example: IF they put a promo of Ryback or Cena, or anyone, that crowd reaction will enhance the story they are trying to tell, it's going to be different... Even what we saw Monday, will be changed to enhance the reactions even more (adding in more crowd reaction, making it seem bigger).

 

So yes, I sympathize with your feelings, no I don't agree with your overall assessment of the situation.

 

That's why it's gross, it's crowd manipulation. Why do you think Sitcoms use laugh tracks? The reason why I'm so upset about it, isn't because I was fooled. It's because in pro-wrestling the crowd is the judge, jury, and the executioner, if you're trying to influence it in untoward ways, what the hell is the point? What are people "competing" for? The entire idea of pro wrestling, since the carnivals shut down anyway, is supposed to be about "competing" for the fans appreciation/scorn. The best guys earn the most, and in-turn drive fans out to see them. "Iron forges Iron" as Randy Couture says, and that competition is what forces these guys to improve.

 

Not to sound like a purist here, but once you start manipulating the reactions, what is the talent's job? What is their purpose, eventually, they all just become avatars with no desire, or need, to improve.

 

Now I understand what you're saying about NXT, but listen to the audio again when Cena comes on screen. There's a surprise pop from the live tape, then they turn on him. During the TV footage, the pop sounds identical, but they clearly drowned out the boos with fake cheers. It's good audio editing. Now, this is taped in advance, but do you think they couldn't do similar live? With technology today, If they're doing this for NXT (a show nobody cares about, nor watches) you better believe they're pulling out all of the stops for RAW to keep that above a 3.0 now that football season has started.

 

I bring it up mostly because the hive mind has already started chirping "Ryback is getting over." "Feed Me More is the most over chant in the WWE." And eventually, it'll get said so many times it'll become true.

[Blackman]

WWE posted a nice article on fb about the top 50 villains. Here's a snippet:

 

"Some WWE fans were critical of the fact that it took Mark Henry 15 years to embrace his status as the squared circle’s most intimidating figure. Truth is they should be thankful. Had the powerhouse from Silsbee, Texas, spent the last decade behaving the way he did in fall 2011 then WWE history would look a lot different. Imagine rings destroyed. Legends hobbled. The Streak? A few digits less impressive."

 

Hmm... Those must've been WCW fans or something then. Either they are being ironic, or they have no idea their little woulda/shoulda-exercise should end differently. Imagine bankrupcy, careers destroyed, WWE programming replaced by a Doink the Clown children's show, etc.

 

And The Big Red Machine is only at #40? But he's an all-round bad-ass. Remember Katie Vick? Ow wait, god no, please don't remember Katie Vick. Worst. Storyline. Ever.

[MrSelfDestruct]

 

And The Big Red Machine is only at #40? But he's an all-round bad-ass. Remember Katie Vick? Ow wait, god no, please don't remember Katie Vick. Worst. Storyline. Ever.

 

 

what about Katie Vick? that would cement HHH's villainous legacy, not Kane. Kane was the victim in that

[Rone Rivendale]

Katie Vick was the victim. Kane had sex with her dead body, remember? Sure HHH made fun of it in a very badly done crude way, but it doesn't change what Kane did.

[Blackman]

Trips is no 5 in the list. Never saw him as THAT much of a villain. If mimicking a sicko is the worst thing he did, he' didn't earn that spot. I do remember him battering Goldberg with a sledgehammer. That's pretty villainous I guess. Sure, he was the cerebral assassin, didn't always play by the rules. But does that beat attempted exorcism (taker)? Surprised me that scary freak - Paul Bearer - was not in the list. The guy was genuinely scary.

[MrSelfDestruct]

Katie Vick was the victim. Kane had sex with her dead body, remember? Sure HHH made fun of it in a very badly done crude way, but it doesn't change what Kane did.

 

no he didn't.. H pretended that he did cuz she was Kane girlfriend that died. It never once said Kane did that, H was just trying to piss him off

[Jaysin]

Random, but has there been a Booker T dvd?

[Blackman]

Random, but has there been a Booker T dvd?

 

There was, but it's currently out of print as it's only been printed five times, sucka.

 

j/k. No, I don't believe there was. Never heard it being mentioned. But there will be one. Seems logical.

 

no he didn't.. H pretended that he did cuz she was Kane girlfriend that died. It never once said Kane did that, H was just trying to piss him off

 

I think we can presume that it really was supposed to have happened, else the storyline would make even less sense than it does now.

 

"No, you're lying. Here's the file. There was no semen in her dead vagina, folks." I guess they could've also had sex just before that. But then again, that would be unlikely since Kane is a freak. Or... wait, are we really debating this topic?

 

Anyhow, I guess we know now why he's the number 5 villain. Makes sense.

[Teh_Showtime]

Trips is no 5 in the list. Never saw him as THAT much of a villain.

 

His feud with the Rock and then Cactus Jack would have been enough alone

 

But evolution also and the power trip

 

no matter how much HHHate you have, you can't really say he wasn't much of a villian. And it also gets a plus too because he won so damn much.

[Jaysin]

But he's soooo boring as a heel.

 

Also, a list of the best villains and no William Regal? That's messed up.

[Astil]

But he's soooo boring as a heel.

 

Also, a list of the best villains and no William Regal? That's messed up.

 

HHH was an infinitely better heel than Regal.

[Jaysin]

HHH was an infinitely better heel than Regal.

 

HHH cut the exact same promo over, and over, and over again. "I'm the Game and I'm the best. I'll destroy whoever..." blah blah blah

 

Regal works the mic better than Triple H and is a better in ring worker. He just wasn't blessed with the greatest look and let his personal demons take control.

[Makhai]

HHH was an infinitely better heel than Regal.

 

Regal's entire character was that he was stale bread. I'm not a fan of either of them really, think they're both incredibly overrated.

[Teh_Showtime]

Let's be real here

 

Regal was NEVER on the level of 2000 HHH

 

HHH didn't start cutting the same promo every week until the evolution days.

 

People really like to hate on HHH but honestly he was better than Rock imo.

[Jaysin]

I'll give you 2000 HHH Showtime, but Makhai, you seriously have missed a lot of Regal's career if you think that's what his entire character has been.

 

His King of the Ring run? Freaking brilliant. His ECW feud with Christian? Awesome, or go back to his Blue Bloods days. He made a stereotypical anti American British snob, something special.

 

The dude can play a villain better than most. It's ridiculously natural for him.

 

I might be a bit bias because Regal was the first heel I really got behind as a kid, but saying his character has been nothing but stale bread? That's a load.

[angeldelayette]

This is slightly random and doesn't fit in with the topic at hand but this is the WWE thread, after all.

 

How about at WrestleMania 29, we have The Undertaker defend his streak against...CM Punk?!?! Here's how it happens.

 

CM Punk keeps his title over the next few months, cementing his heel status and talking about wanting respect, etc. Then he goes against The Rock at Royal Rumble. The match is even, back and forth. The end comes as CM Punk goes for the GTS but The Rock reverses into a Rock Bottom. Rock covers but the referee has been knocked down so there's no pinfall. John Cena attacks The Rock, hitting the AA and CM Punk retains his title. That same night, the Deadman returns at the Royal Rumble, winning the Royal Rumble itself. The following night on Raw he makes his choice to face the man who wants 'respect.' If CM Punk wants respect, he'll have the chance to earn it in the Deadman's Playground at WrestleMania.

 

Thoughts?