The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Jaysin]

Just watched the Evolution episode of Ruthless Aggression, I now totally understand why Jindrak never got a push in WWE. He was just as immature as Orton.

[Sco xY2Jx]

I had little expectations going into Mania but it's been surprisingly decent actually. Undertaker vs AJ gave Taker his best match since Lesnar at Hell In A Cell and I was thoroughly sports entertained.

Highlight of Mania so far.

[milamber]

Great matches: Kofi vs Uso vs Morrison, Rollins vs Owens, AJ vs Taker

Good matches: Shayna vs Becky (minus the ending)

Solid matches: Bliss & Cross vs Kabuki Warriors, Bryan vs Zayn

Meh matches: Corbin vs Elias, Braun vs Goldberg

 

Exceeded my low expectations by a lot. I was dreading the Undertaker match but it was MOTN. They pulled a creative rabbit out of their hat (thanks Borash). Becky retaining was disappointing. Unless Ronda comes back soon (which would be dumb at a time like this) I assume she will continue to feud with Shayna.

[RingRider]

So yeah...I'm not as high on the AJ/Taker match as others... I think it was the all the weird "smack talk." I have a lot questions about the rando-dudes with the hoods? Idk...

 

We'll see what tonight brings but the show was better left postponed. I can't imagine anyone paying cash for this outside a Network subscription.

[LoganRodzen]

<p>WM has basically been a weird training / practice edition. It just doesn't feel right. The only saving grace last night for me was Taker vs AJ and that's for obvious reasons. Fan interaction is literally what made wrestling what it is. Matches have changed on the fly because of the crowd. Its just really hard to immerse myself in something that seriously looks like a YouTube tryout match with glorious production. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Just watched the Evolution episode of Ruthless Aggression, I now totally understand why Jindrak never got a push in WWE. He was just as immature as Orton.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> But that doesn't actually justify him not getting a push considering Orton was pushed all the same. If anything, the episode proved what so many people believed for years and that's Triple H held people back based on personal reasons. Jindrak and Orton were basically acting like HHH and HBK, but that's not the image HHH wanted. Evolution had to be everything DX wasn't. Don't get me wrong, I love HHH and he's always been a favorite of mine. But that episode was 40 minutes of proof that HHH held guys down as we all expected.</p>

[LoganRodzen]

Well, it definitely gives Wrestlemania 11 some company. To be fair, WM11 wasn't even that bad.

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LoganRodzen" data-cite="LoganRodzen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>WM has basically been a weird training / practice edition. It just doesn't feel right. The only saving grace last night for me was Taker vs AJ and that's for obvious reasons. Fan interaction is literally what made wrestling what it is. Matches have changed on the fly because of the crowd. Its just really hard to immerse myself in something that seriously looks like a YouTube tryout match with glorious production.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> No doubt. Fans can take crappy matches and turn them into watchable matches. </p><p> </p><p> Though I have to admit that I have not enjoyed going to wrestling in recent years because the fans often annoying me with their stupid sayings. Like, "Fight forever" and "One fall". I liked it better when I was a kid and the fans would try to go out and try to fight or kill the wrestler's.<img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LoganRodzen" data-cite="LoganRodzen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Well, it definitely gives Wrestlemania 11 some company. To be fair, WM11 wasn't even that bad.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I was at WM11 and I remember thinking, "Is this really the WrestleMania that I get to see live. Man this sucks."</p>

[LoganRodzen]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I was at WM11 and I remember thinking, "Is this really the WrestleMania that I get to see live. Man this sucks."</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Bad ass you went to a 'Mania though. I've only ever been to one PPV and it was Summerslam 2006 in Boston. I was 17 years old at the time and my oldest brother was 25. It was the first PPV for both of us. It was awesome because he used to take me to house shows as a little kid and our mom would drop us off. Hogan vs Orton is definitely what I remember most from that PPV. And Sabu/Big Show being so terrible. Although, nobody expected anything from that match anyway. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[RingRider]

Unpopular opinion: The Firefly Funhouse > The Boneyard Match

[milamber]

Great Matches: Charlotte vs Rhea, Edge vs Orton (although it went a bit long), Cena vs Wyatt

Good Matches: Theory & Garza vs Street Profits, SD Women's Title

Solid Matches: Black vs Lashley, Ziggler vs Otis, Drew vs Lesnar

 

Better the Night 1. Another women's match with the wrong winner. I can't believe HHH would willingly sign off on that. Is Io turning face again or will she never get a title shot until Charlotte drops it? Nice Bianca cameo. Drew vs Lesnar suffered most from not having a crowd but at least he won the title. Boneyard match was my favorite overall because I hated the thought of watching Taker but ended up loving it. Cena vs Wyatt was one of the greatest matches to contain almost zero wrestling I've ever seen. Such good s...

 

Post-match promos with Bayley and Otis/Mandy were fun.

 

[Sco xY2Jx]

Cena vs Wyatt wasn't so much a wrestling match as more a video essay to 2 men's careers that was nothing short excellent! A truly brilliant promo!

 

Well, as said before I didn't have great expectations heading into Mania and have left thinking the two mini-movies were the best part about it. Still, as a Scotsman, I love that McIntyre is now champ! Let him run with the belt!

[unwound]

Went into WM with little expectations, gotta say with what they had to work with...it turned out alright. Only the NXT Women's match I was slightly disappointed with the result, but overall I can't complain too much over the two nights. Never thought I'd say an Undertaker match in 2020 would be the highlight of Mania, but I thoroughly enjoyed the Boneyard match!

[crownsy]

Unpopular opinion: The Firefly Funhouse > The Boneyard Match

 

I mean no, not without some sort of explanation for why the John Cena Character suddenly not being able to do anything that wasn't Bray's bidding in a magical, mystical land beyond this dimension. If they had built to that at all ok, but this was one of those things where I'm sure it was a good idea on paper, but didn't land in reality.

 

I get what they were going for, didn't land for me.

 

as someone else above said, it was a long form play about the two mens careers, which would have been fine if that's what you built to. But that wasn't what you built to.

 

the Boneyard match was still a fight, albeit a fight in unique circumstances

 

The FF Funhouse match was CEna taking acid and tripping out I guess? until Bray just decided "eh, he's tripped balls enough, time to put him down"

[Kijar]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="crownsy" data-cite="crownsy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I mean no, not without some sort of explanation for why the John Cena Character suddenly not being able to do anything that wasn't Bray's bidding in a magical, mystical land beyond this dimension. If they had built to that at all ok, but this was one of those things where I'm sure it was a good idea on paper, but didn't land in reality. <p> </p><p> I get what they were going for, didn't land for me.</p><p> </p><p> as someone else above said, it was a long form play about the two mens careers, which would have been fine if that's what you built to. But that wasn't what you built to.</p><p> </p><p> the Boneyard match was still a fight, albeit a fight in unique circumstances</p><p> </p><p> The FF Funhouse match was CEna taking acid and tripping out I guess? until Bray just decided "eh, he's tripped balls enough, time to put him down"</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Why wouldn't Bray have all the control in a "Firefly Funhouse" match? <img alt=":confused:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/confused.png.d4a8e6b6eab0c67698b911fb041c0ed1.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="unwound" data-cite="unwound" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Went into WM with little expectations, gotta say with what they had to work with...it turned out alright.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Only saw night one for now, but it was fine. What did people expect? Fans are the beating heart of this business. It's not a coincidence that you have trouble getting A matches when the crowd is burned out. Imagine having no crowd. It brings down some of the rating. You ask me for my top 5 matches, it will be some where the crowd was rowdy. For an entertainment promotion, this is not a gift. Even for more modern promotions (I've seen some indy matches without a crowd: the cringe is real there).</p><p> </p><p> I also loved the '70s (?) theme song.</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="LoganRodzen" data-cite="LoganRodzen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Bad ass you went to a 'Mania though. I've only ever been to one PPV and it was Summerslam 2006 in Boston. I was 17 years old at the time and my oldest brother was 25. It was the first PPV for both of us. It was awesome because he used to take me to house shows as a little kid and our mom would drop us off. Hogan vs Orton is definitely what I remember most from that PPV. And Sabu/Big Show being so terrible. Although, nobody expected anything from that match anyway. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I always wanted to go to the Garden to see a house show. Mainly because to me it would be odd sitting in such a big arena for one. I used to always go to the shows at the Providence Civic Center, which I think (I did not look it up) is seven thousands seats smaller so I always thought it would be cool to see a house show in an NBA arena. Though I do hate going to the Garden, it is not bad if you are close but if you are in the nosebleed sections (Which I always am) those seats suck. I don't know whose brilliant idea it was to have the seats tilt forward, so that it makes you feel like you are going to fall out of them. The old Yankees Stadium was the same way, just awful.</p><p> </p><p> Okay enough ranting about stadiums.</p>

[Self]

Really liked the Firefly Funhouse Match. It's not the best version of that kind of thing that I think could be made, but I dug what it was going for. I have zero interest in watching those guys have a normal wrestling match (or in watching WWE matches in general) but that kind of look at those characters was fun.

[Jaysin]

I still need to watch night 2, but Taker/Styles was really the only memorable match from Night 1. Charlotte winning is obnoxious. They could have made Rhea a star, but no.

[Blackman]

Great Matches: Charlotte vs Rhea, Edge vs Orton (although it went a bit long), Cena vs Wyatt

Good Matches: Theory & Garza vs Street Profits, SD Women's Title

Solid Matches: Black vs Lashley, Ziggler vs Otis, Drew vs Lesnar

 

I mostly agree with this assessment. Charlotte vs Rhea was hands down the best match. This match might even have benefitted from having no crowd? I loved the ending of Edge vs Orton (personally not a fan of gimmick matches, but the emotion and buildup made the ending epic). Because they went backstage for most of it, the crowd effect was also negated. You don't even mention AJ vs Undertaker? That was an amazing Taker performance, and imo was the better of the cinematic 'matches'.

 

Black vs Lashley was good. The other women's matches (5-way and Becky vs Baszler) were fine, but far from 'Mania-worthy. The tag match was fine but short. The ladder match had some good spots but felt completely meaningless. I liked Seth's performance, and enjoyed the Sammy vs Bryan match for what it was: highlighting their non-ring skills as well. Otis vs Ziggler was entertaining. Cena vs Wyatt was clever, but too focused on the past.

 

The Lesnar match and Goldberg matches were average, as expected. There as some energy when McIntyre won that deserved title, but it was lost on the "meh"-level of the match.

 

All in all it's not exactly an epic mania, but it was fine. This one is already very thankful they didn't just cancel it.

 

I still need to watch night 2, but Taker/Styles was really the only memorable match from Night 1. Charlotte winning is obnoxious. They could have made Rhea a star, but no.

 

I agree Rhea should've won but if you don't think she was elevated with that loss, you need to watch the match again. And maybe - if Charlotte is really going for another NXT run to put the women there over - this might lead to some upset win that could launch someone's career. I don't think Charlotte is too proud to get some upset loss. We'll see. If she ends up just vacating the title, that would be bad booking. They'll call Rhea up for a rematch, which she'll win, and have another random tournament for the belt. Lame.

 

I remember them wanting to book Flair as the "undefeated in singles matches @ PPV" worker, until they realised that's just not feasible in an environment with so much talent. Maybe they're making another attempt. (though she did lose at Clash of Champions 2019...)

[BHK1978]

For lack of a better place to put this, I was just reading that Dory Funk Jr. had a wrestling match where he teamed with the Steiner Brothers on Leap Day of this year. He's 79 years old.

[milamber]

I mostly agree with this assessment. Charlotte vs Rhea was hands down the best match. This match might even have benefitted from having no crowd? I loved the ending of Edge vs Orton (personally not a fan of gimmick matches, but the emotion and buildup made the ending epic). Because they went backstage for most of it, the crowd effect was also negated. You don't even mention AJ vs Undertaker? That was an amazing Taker performance, and imo was the better of the cinematic 'matches'.

 

Black vs Lashley was good. The other women's matches (5-way and Becky vs Baszler) were fine, but far from 'Mania-worthy. The tag match was fine but short. The ladder match had some good spots but felt completely meaningless. I liked Seth's performance, and enjoyed the Sammy vs Bryan match for what it was: highlighting their non-ring skills as well. Otis vs Ziggler was entertaining. Cena vs Wyatt was clever, but too focused on the past.

 

The Lesnar match and Goldberg matches were average, as expected. There as some energy when McIntyre won that deserved title, but it was lost on the "meh"-level of the match.

 

All in all it's not exactly an epic mania, but it was fine. This one is already very thankful they didn't just cancel it.

 

 

 

I agree Rhea should've won but if you don't think she was elevated with that loss, you need to watch the match again. And maybe - if Charlotte is really going for another NXT run to put the women there over - this might lead to some upset win that could launch someone's career. I don't think Charlotte is too proud to get some upset loss. We'll see. If she ends up just vacating the title, that would be bad booking. They'll call Rhea up for a rematch, which she'll win, and have another random tournament for the belt. Lame.

 

I remember them wanting to book Flair as the "undefeated in singles matches @ PPV" worker, until they realised that's just not feasible in an environment with so much talent. Maybe they're making another attempt. (though she did lose at Clash of Champions 2019...)

 

My review of Night 1 is on the previous page. I should have labelled them. Indeed, the Boneyard was my favorite but only because it had actual wrestling and they made me enjoy a Taker match LOL. I thought Cena/Wyatt was the more creative and shocking of the 2 matches but it was more of an angle.

 

There's a rumor Rhea's working visa has expired/is about to expire. The other rumor is that Vince wants Charlotte on NXT for ratings (she hasn't moved the needle on there before). Although Hunter said Vince was in charge of booking that match not him so the latter is probably more likely to be true.

[crownsy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Kijar" data-cite="Kijar" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Why wouldn't Bray have all the control in a "Firefly Funhouse" match? <img alt=":confused:" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/confused.png.d4a8e6b6eab0c67698b911fb041c0ed1.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> There's having control, and there's having a force vision for 15 minutes about your inter self after being teleported from the ring to an alternate dimension, where you apparently lose all control of your sanity and body. </p><p> </p><p> Look, i get it I'm in the minority, it seems to have landed for a ton of people and i'm glad they did something creative a lot of people enjoyed. </p><p> </p><p> For me, it was very corny. I would have even preferred Cena was challenged to drink some sort of potion by Bray and was like "Fine, I'll do it" and then seize out for 20 minutes until Bray decided to go "eh, he's done I guess"</p>

[crownsy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Blackman" data-cite="Blackman" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I mostly agree with this assessment.<strong> Charlotte vs Rhea</strong> was hands down the best match. This match might even have benefitted from having no crowd? I loved the <strong>ending of Edge vs Orton</strong> (personally not a fan of gimmick matches, but the emotion and buildup made the ending epic). Because they went backstage for most of it, the crowd effect was also negated. You don't even mention AJ vs Undertaker? That was an amazing Taker performance, and imo was the better of the cinematic 'matches'. <p> </p><p> Black vs Lashley was good. The other women's matches (5-way and Becky vs Baszler) were fine, but far from 'Mania-worthy. The tag match was fine but short. The ladder match had some good spots but felt completely meaningless. I liked Seth's performance, and enjoyed the Sammy vs Bryan match for what it was: highlighting their non-ring skills as well. Otis vs Ziggler was entertaining. Cena vs Wyatt was clever, but too focused on the past.</p><p> </p><p> The Lesnar match and Goldberg matches were average, as expected. There as some energy when McIntyre won that deserved title, but it was lost on the "meh"-level of the match.</p><p> </p><p> All in all it's not exactly an epic mania, but it was fine. This one is already very thankful they didn't just cancel it.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p> I agree Rhea should've won but if you don't think she was elevated with that loss, you need to watch the match again. And maybe - if Charlotte is really going for another NXT run to put the women there over - this might lead to some upset win that could launch someone's career. I don't think Charlotte is too proud to get some upset loss. We'll see. If she ends up just vacating the title, that would be bad booking. They'll call Rhea up for a rematch, which she'll win, and have another random tournament for the belt. Lame.</p><p> </p><p> I remember them wanting to book Flair as the "undefeated in singles matches @ PPV" worker, until they realised that's just not feasible in an environment with so much talent. Maybe they're making another attempt. (though she did lose at Clash of Champions 2019...)</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If Charlotte loses that title to anyone in NXT not named Rhea after Rhea's redemption tour then this is a huge waste of time. </p><p> </p><p> Lets see if she can move the needle on Wednesdays and stop them getting embarrassed, clearly why they did it.</p>

[Mootinie]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="crownsy" data-cite="crownsy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If Charlotte loses that title to anyone in NXT not named Rhea after Rhea's redemption tour then this is a huge waste of time. <p> </p><p> Lets see if she can move the needle on Wednesdays and stop them getting embarrassed, clearly why they did it.</p></div></blockquote><p> To be fair to them, Rhea's work visa has expired so she's had to return to Australia.</p>

[crownsy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Mootinie" data-cite="Mootinie" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25169" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>To be fair to them, Rhea's work visa has expired so she's had to return to Australia.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> according to the women herself, fake news. She's in Tampa as of last night. </p><p> </p><p> <a href="https://lordsofpain.net/rhea-ripley-is-still-in-the-united-states-despite-previous-reports/" rel="external nofollow">https://lordsofpain.net/rhea-ripley-is-still-in-the-united-states-despite-previous-reports/</a></p><p> </p><p> Now the truth is likely in the middle (she likely needs to renew, and guessing that renewal process is not top of list right now for either government) and she needs a renewal processed to be offical. She's not going home anytime soon either though with both countries having a travel ban in place. Also, Vince just got an exemption via the POTUS to tape in Florida, you think ICE is showing up for Rhea at those tapings? </p><p> </p><p> The Real reason is Ashley wanted the W as she always does at Mania, Vince booked the match not triple H (confirmed in interview with Trips as stated above) as Vince is convinced she moves the needle and is getting killed on Wednesdays.</p><p> </p><p> and what's the only time they've beat AEW? when the main roster stars were building S. Series.</p>