The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[Stennick]

Isn't this the week the Psych guys are hosting? Bret won't be there tonight so I hope the rest of the show is interesting.

[Bigpapa42]

Isn't this the week the Psych guys are hosting? Bret won't be there tonight so I hope the rest of the show is interesting.

 

Its Iron Mike tonight.

[Stennick]

Thats right their head to head against the UFC tonight.

[Hyde Hill]

Yep Pscych guys next week, week after that Shatner! Also no Bret tonight as he is elsewhere expected to show up next week.

[PeterHilton]

BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

 

Did that get everybody's attention long enough to stop arguing? You can't even get a conversation going right now with this!

 

wow

 

I'm hoping we got some kind of build towards the Rumble. Bret segments aside, the last few weeks Raw seems to be in cruise control as far as "feuds" go.

[Stennick]

Its kind of funny because if this was the real Monday Night Wars both shows would be taking advantage. For instance with TNA not having a new show for a week and a half this would be RAW's chance to really have a blow out show. For TNA knowing Bret isn't there this week would be a chance to steal some viewers with a heavily hyped show.

[jwt13]

I agree with you that becoming the top brand in an industry can help you. Just as it helped Ford and GM for so many years. My point was that if you don't maintain that brand then eventually it will not matter and you can go out of business no matter how big you are. I pointed this out because JWT had said the WWE is only still around because of 1. The Attitude Years (which I think I properly put that argument to rest with revenue numbers of the last couple of post attitude years). And 2. Because they are the name brand in their area. Which to a degree is true but its not like they have any real competition for that spot at the moment so its truly hard to say the WWE is successful because of being known as THE brand for pro wrestling. While thats true they don't have anyone to compete properly against for that spot. Comparing the WWE to Green Giant Veggies you have to at this point atleast compare TNA to Walmart Branded Veggies. When you have to look at the UFC as competition which is like saying that Green Beans biggest competitor is Corn that when you know you have a monopoly. Now if someone wants to make an argument that their the only Brand so there fore the most successful brand that might be a better argument to make.

 

 

 

This is precisely my point. A lot of people in this very thread claim to not be big WWE fans, yet they still sell out pay per view venues. Take a look at top Sports and Recreation DVD sales UFC and the WWE are always on top. Other merchandise such as clothing, figurines, etc. sales not even UFC can touch them in this area. There are literally millions of people who not only love the WWE but will spend money on their product even in these hard financial times. Even in a time when virtually all entertainment products are suffering. Free Agency in sports, music deals, etc. their all either holding or less than they were five years ago. In this world the WWE continues to drive people to pay their hard earned cash. Thats why I say that if your for lack of a better term forcing people to hand you their hard earned cash in return for some momentary (in a lot of cases) entertainment then you truly have to be the very best at what you do. Remi may not think so, I may not think so, this entire board may not think the WWE is the best wrestling company in the world. They may not even call themselves wrestling however if you talk to a sales guy at Ford he won't say he's selling you a car he'll say he's selling you a FORD.

 

I said (and if i didnt say it this is what i meant. ) If you scratch the whole atitude era you would not have the same following as it does now and less following means less cash. Now I didn't watch WWF before the atitdue era but from what I hear it was kinda rought and maybe someone can tell me right but it was aiming at kids with their wacky characters which was why alot of veiwers went to WCW when Nitro along with other things Nitro was about. EX: Surprises, Lightweights who were awsome IMO, ect. Which was the cause for the atitude era. I'm saying that IMO if WWF never went out of the crazy charcters during that period of time I think it wouldn't be as popular as it is today for reasons such as no seat fillers, Stone Cold Steve Austin, The Rock, DX, Mankind, ect. This is just how I feel and as for WWF pre mid 96 I dont know much about so if some one finds any thing wrong with the product I'm thinking it had (Which is from what I've heard from other forums) please correct me.

[thatoneguy]

You might not have meant it, but you just said Hulk Hogan didn't fill in seats.

[PeterHilton]

I know Cole is prone to hyberbole, but him calling Tyson the 'most iconic athlete of the 20th century' on the way to commercial is totally asinine.

 

So...not Babe Ruth or Jackie Robinson or Michael Jordan or Muhammed Ali?

 

Mike Tyson.

[jwt13]

You might not have meant it, but you just said Hulk Hogan didn't fill in seats.

 

Hogan wasn't made a star by the atitude era and wasn't in WWF during the atitude era

[Stennick]

Maybe the most FEARED Athlete but most iconic? Wow

[PeterHilton]

Hogan wasn't made a star by the atitude era and wasn't in WWF during the atitude era

 

OK, I'm going to break it to you: you aren't being clear at ALL.

[PeterHilton]

I definitely smell a swerve on Jericho.

 

But still..hearing Tyson threaten Hornswoggle was TRE-mendous.

[Marshall]

Watched Raw live this week and thought it was a pretty good show all round. While watching, I had an epiphany about DX. The majority of the comedy segments they've done over the years have been pretty poor and have been dished a lot of criticism. The epiphany that I had was regardless of whether the segments were excruciating to watch at times, I am going to admit that I think they were necessary. From watching them the last couple of weeks, I think it really shows just how good they are as performers - the subtleties in their performances are amazing. Maybe I've read too much into the performances but from a storyline plotting point, it's interesting to note how the characters have been altered slightly. Before the Slammies, Michaels never appeared on screen without Triple H - the group was united. But HBK's challenge to The Undertaker and confrontations with Vince and Bret were done solo. And you can sense Triple H's character doesn't agree with this direction - he's advised HBK against the confrontations again and again, and tonight seemed reluctant to allow Michaels to sell his pitch to Taker before the main event.

 

This got me thinking about why I prefer WWE to TNA. The power of storytelling in the WWE is immense, hands-down. Just from the way Shawn Michaels stood side-on to Hart after their confrontation last week was enough to make you question the validity of Michaels wanting to bury the hatchet - was the old HBK in there or is he really a changed man? I realise the creative team sometimes miss with their storylines and their directions, but this past couple of years have really made me appreciate the sheer level of character-driven performers that are in the company. The Michaels-Jericho programme, the Edge-Mick Foley promo exchange before Edge-Taker in HIAC and CM Punk's straight edge promos are just examples of this, and it's something that TNA doesn't have right now.

 

I read an article the other day that had Vince Russo answering fans' questions and he gave a revealing answer when asked 'which 5 wrestlers outside of TNA would you most like to utilise?' and his answer was 'Randy Orton, Randy Orton, Randy Orton, Randy Orton and Randy Orton'. Say what you want about Russo, and say what you want about Orton's abilities, but you can't deny that as a performer, Randy Orton is world class. From the way he walks to the ring, the way he moves about the ring and the way in which he'll calculate each move in the ring show he's mastered his character. Sure, he may not perform a dozen flips or even that much diversity in his offence, but I find the Orton character compelling viewing when handed the ball. The punt on Vince and the DDT on Steph were amazing segments, and some of the rare times in recent years we've seen interesting and unexpected angles.

 

And that's the main problem I find watching TNA - I'll watch a multi-man X Division flipfest and not only forget what happened 10 minutes later, but forget who was even in the match. I rarely feel that way watching a WWE show. Wrestling is ultimately a character-driven industry; if we don't know who the athletes in the ring are, who cares if they can do a 450 splash? What TNA need to do instead of spending money on Hogan, Flair, Hall, Waltman etc is think about the characters who will be drawing the money in 5 years time, if they're still around. It's alright saying they draw eyeballs to the product, but if there's no reason to characterise the faces on the marquee, then who's going to pay money to see them?

 

Sorry for the essay, but HBK greatness the last few weeks combined with that awesome Miz-MVP angle tonight really inspired me

[sabataged]

Speaking of Orton...anyone else notice him go crazy on Kofi tonight calling him stupid about a dozen times? I think Kofi screwed up the finish which enraged Orton who is said to be a perfectionist when it comes to things going according to plan in the ring.

[thatoneguy]

Am I the only one who just thinks it was Orton playing up his character? How far off is it to think that the character Randy Orton was pissed that Kofi Kingston, after being beaten by Orton last week, demands a shot at what he believes is rightfully his title? He can somewhat respect John Cena wanting a shot, and putting up with Cena would be worth it, but this bug known as Kofi Kingston wants to keep sucking Randy's life away. And then he had the audacity to team up with Cena in order to beat him, and he couldn't even do that well. He's just a stupid guy who doesn't know what he's doing, and he should have stayed away from Orton to begin with.

[Craig Edwards]

anyone else notice the crowd booing cena and chearing orton during there segment then seconds later they chear cena and boo orton

[jbergey_2005]

Im from Minnesota and was embarrassed by the crowd reaction last night. From the "Cena Sucks" to the "What" to the "boring" chants when McMahon were talking. They were hardly a "hot" crowd. Wouldnt be surprised if they dont see RAW for a while.

[Bigpapa42]

Curious on what people think about Sheamus as champion? He obviously won in a rather fluke manner and hasn't been made to look overly strong - the reign has mostly been about Cena's determination to get it back. But he also hasn't really looked too weak either. The build was weak, but I actually don't mind it too much.

[LoNdOn]

Speaking of Orton...anyone else notice him go crazy on Kofi tonight calling him stupid about a dozen times? I think Kofi screwed up the finish which enraged Orton who is said to be a perfectionist when it comes to things going according to plan in the ring.

 

I was about to mention this myself. I think it had something to do with Kofi standing up too quickly before Orton had time to do his stalking before the RKO. Also did you see Kofi's head smash into the canvas. I think Orton held on too long on the way down to teach Kofi a lesson.

 

On a side note The Miz's impression of JBL was outstanding.

[justtxyank]

Im from Minnesota and was embarrassed by the crowd reaction last night. From the "Cena Sucks" to the "What" to the "boring" chants when McMahon were talking. They were hardly a "hot" crowd. Wouldnt be surprised if they dont see RAW for a while.

 

 

The "what" chants are the stupidest thing in wrestling and make me hate Steve Austin with a burning fire.

 

I loved Vince calling out the crowd the week before for the idiotic "What" chants.

[MrCanada]

I was about to mention this myself. I think it had something to do with Kofi standing up too quickly before Orton had time to do his stalking before the RKO. Also did you see Kofi's head smash into the canvas. I think Orton held on too long on the way down to teach Kofi a lesson.

 

I found it completely in character. Him calling Kofi stupid seems to be a very Orton to do. Kofi is stupid for thinking he's on Orton's level. He's stupid for not anticipating the Legacy run in. He's stupid for thinking there was disillusion in Legacy like all of us. Everyone is stupid for thinking Orton wouldnt once again compete for HIS WWE championship.

[sebsplex]

Curious on what people think about Sheamus as champion? He obviously won in a rather fluke manner and hasn't been made to look overly strong - the reign has mostly been about Cena's determination to get it back. But he also hasn't really looked too weak either. The build was weak, but I actually don't mind it too much.

 

I think Sheamus has been booked fairly strongly from what I've seen (getting punked out by Mark Cuban aside), although I wish they'd give him a bit more focus. I like that the WWE have thrown a new name into the mix, but instead of focussing on him, it's more following Cena's pursuit of getting the gold back and his frustrations in doing so (fitting with how he lost in the first place). I've seen more than enough Cena 'against the odds' and 'struggles to overcome' feuds to know I'm not seeing a new dimension to Cena. Although I don't watch nearly every minute of WWE programming, I'm just hoping for more build of Sheamus as a character, rather than just giving him wins and the belt. He feels too interchangeable, a rather generic big heel... kinda like watching a pale, ginger version of Test.

[lazorbeak]

Sorry for the essay, but HBK greatness the last few weeks combined with that awesome Miz-MVP angle tonight really inspired me

 

That Miz promo was flat out incredible. I don't see Miz as ever being a world champion and still think he's the "Christian" to Morrison's "Edge," but that promo was seriously the best thing I've ever seen him do. His improvement by year has been nothing short of meteoric.

[The Shape]

That Miz promo was flat out incredible. I don't see Miz as ever being a world champion and still think he's the "Christian" to Morrison's "Edge," but that promo was seriously the best thing I've ever seen him do. His improvement by year has been nothing short of meteoric.

 

First of all, I still see christian being world champ one day

 

And aside from that I'm not a huge fan of the comparison. All that Morrison has over Miz is that he's better looking and generally flashier. His promo ability is improving but they still aren't great and his matches are just ridiculous move after ridiculous move, I'm amazed he hasn't hurt himself yet. I still like him, but I see Miz as more of a durable figure. His matches make sense and he can talk as good as all but a select few on the roster. Edge and Christian were a lot more even promo wise and all round, just edge is, well...taller.