The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[lazorbeak]

Personally, the Cena headlining thing irritates me a little, but I don't order the PPV for John Cena or the order of the card, I order it for matches like Sheamus/Ziggler and Punk/Bryan/Kane (now with added AJ!). As long as WWE keep putting on matches and storylines like those, I'll keep ordering.

 

I really don't see any reason the WWE can't push Ziggler hard now - the 'Let's go Ziggler' chanting was so painfully obvious that someone obviously thought it necessary to make poor King embarrass himself by trying to claim it was a 'Let's go Sheamus' chant - the guy is second only to Daniel Bryan in 'heels that are ridiculously popular' stakes right now.

It even falls into place - let Punk/Kane (I'm assuming Bryan's role in the feud will be pushed to the side now - turn Miz and let him feud with Bryan) fight over AJ at MITB and maybe Summerslam. Meanwhile, have Ziggler win MITB and start building him for a feud with Punk while someone gets ready with a mop to clean up all the fangasm.

 

I looked at that as more of Lawler being in-character, a super bland out-of-touch babyface who dislikes guys like Ziggler and doesn't acknowledge when the crowd likes them.

 

As far as Cena main-eventing, I really don't think it's particularly defensible. Even accepting that he's the company's biggest draw, which is shaky, or that he moves the most merch, which is a little less shaky, he's been the guy for what, 7 years now? It's like saying Vince should never have given the ball to Bret Hart, he should've had Hogan wrestling grudge matches in the main event while Hart defended the title in the undercard. While Cena's clearly not as physically desiccated as Hogan was in 1993, he's in a similar position where he's wrestled everybody, he's pretty well stuck at the level he's at, and putting him in the main event outside of Rock/Brock showcase matches is just playing things safe and not giving a new face a chance to break out and show what they're capable of.

 

Totally disagree that Punk/Bryan/Kane wouldn't "be close" when it comes to rating them in some sort of TEW like machine. They're bonafide main eventers wrestling for the WWE championship who happen to also be great wrestlers.

[Astil]

Yeah no. Punk, bryan and Kane are no where near Cena's level. They're not even near HHH's level.

[Target Practice]

Yeah but wrestling isn't the same as you can manipulate what people think is the best song and people buying a ppv for just that song will be happy anywhere you place it as long as you place it etc.

 

You need to see more matches or you really really like Ziggler fair enough. Aries vs Joe blew that out of the water and with less time imho.

 

And yup Arrows.

 

RE: the Cena thing, they'd obviously booked it so that this feud with Laurenitis was going to end with Johnny getting fired and there needing to be a new GM - there's no way you can have a match with that much importance to future storylines anywhere but the main event.

Sorry, but you can't have the CEO of the company firing the GM, then the company's biggest face putting said GM through the announce table, and then follow that up with another match, title or not.

 

As for Ziggler, I am a big fan, but I'll re-qualify my previous statement by point at the bit where I said one of the better matches. Not the best, just saying it's up there. Aries vs Joe was awesome, but if I'm completely honest, I was expecting better - I'm a big A-double fan, and maybe my expectations were just too high, whereas with Sheamus/Ziggler, I didn't really expect much beyond a solid match, but I ended up really enjoying it.

[Makhai]

Pre-Show: Brodus Clay defeated David Otunga by countout

Yawn... D

 

Sheamus © defeated Dolph Ziggler for the Who Cares? Championship

 

This match really foreshadowed the night. Terrible pacing broken up with some good wrestling. Sheamus curtain jerking was the height of disrespect. Good action here, poor psychology.B+

 

Santino Marella defeated Ricardo Rodriguez in a Tuxedo match...

 

I haven't seen NJ react to something with such vitriol since Snooki announced she's knocked-up.... Deserved. F-

 

Christian © defeated Cody Rhodes for the WWE Intercontinental Championship

 

If you're following along kids; Intercontinental belt > WCW belt

 

Good match with more terrible psychology... Christian works Cody's arm so he can spear him? B-

 

Prime Time Players (Titus O'Neil and Darren Young) defeated Primo and Epico, The Usos, and Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel

 

Hey guys, SOMETHING ****ING HAPPENED! And a decent spot too! I can't even remember who AW is, or when Rosa Mendes started her Shakira gimmick, but SOMETHING HAPPENED! B

 

Layla © defeated Beth Phoenix

 

Fire all of the Divas, who can actually wrestle a bit. I'm tired of watching semi-talented performers urinated on like this... BETH OBLITERATED A BETTER WRESTLER THAN YOU ON SMACKDOWN 10 MINUTES AGO! AND YOU BEAT HER WITH A SWINGING NECK-BREAKER! THE FAMILY GUY MATINEE'S COULD BOOK THIS DIVISION BETTER! AGGGGGHHHHHHH! F-

 

Sin Cara defeated Hunico

 

I've seen this turd 60 times for free already, thanks for wasting my time, WWE. Match itself was serviceable, Mistico did ok work, Hunico is still garbage... Camacho is still collecting a paycheck with a mask and a gun. D

 

CM Punk© defeated Kane and Daniel Bryan

 

This was a beacon of light in a dark tunnel... it seemed to get further, and further away though. Until finally... they blew it. Match was good. Even managed to get some vintage 90s Kane out of the old guy. I'm downgrading this because Daniel Bryan is totally out of this picture now. Probably start feuding with Santino so we can have goat face vs. cobra match for the US Title B

 

Ryback defeated who gives a crap and spray-tan guy The crowd was ready to call it a night after the Punk retention. Ryback spent the better part of 3mins begging the crowd to chant his name... Same moves, same progression, same finish. THIS IS A PPV! D+

 

John Cena defeated Big Show

 

Big Show tried.... but he's still a big fat, 40ish-year-old, blob who can't wrestle. Cena was his typical mediocre self... Psychology of this match was brutal... A CAGE MATCH IS NO DQ! WHY DID YOU MIDCARD TRASH WAIT UNTIL THE REF TOOK A BUMP! HE CAN'T DISQUALIFY ANYBODY! The real winner in this match was the NJ crowd... Stone ****ing silent whole match through. Even the Laurinaitis Attitude Adjustment... Perfect cap to an awful night. F+

 

Overall Grade: D-

[Arrows]

Pre-Show: Brodus Clay defeated David Otunga by countout

Yawn... D

 

Sheamus © defeated Dolph Ziggler for the Who Cares? Championship

 

This match really foreshadowed the night. Terrible pacing broken up with some good wrestling. Sheamus curtain jerking was the height of disrespect. Good action here, poor psychology.B+

 

Santino Marella defeated Ricardo Rodriguez in a Tuxedo match...

 

I haven't seen NJ react to something with such vitriol since Snooki announced she's knocked-up.... Deserved. F-

 

Christian © defeated Cody Rhodes for the WWE Intercontinental Championship

 

If you're following along kids; Intercontinental belt > WCW belt

 

Good match with more terrible psychology... Christian works Cody's arm so he can spear him? B-

 

Prime Time Players (Titus O'Neil and Darren Young) defeated Primo and Epico, The Usos, and Tyson Kidd & Justin Gabriel

 

Hey guys, SOMETHING ****ING HAPPENED! And a decent spot too! I can't even remember who AW is, or when Rosa Mendes started her Shakira gimmick, but SOMETHING HAPPENED! B

 

Layla © defeated Beth Phoenix

 

Fire all of the Divas, who can actually wrestle a bit. I'm tired of watching semi-talented performers urinated on like this... BETH OBLITERATED A BETTER WRESTLER THAN YOU ON SMACKDOWN 10 MINUTES AGO! AND YOU BEAT HER WITH A SWINGING NECK-BREAKER! THE FAMILY GUY MATINEE'S COULD BOOK THIS DIVISION BETTER! AGGGGGHHHHHHH! F-

 

Sin Cara defeated Hunico

 

I've seen this turd 60 times for free already, thanks for wasting my time, WWE. Match itself was serviceable, Mistico did ok work, Hunico is still garbage... Camacho is still collecting a paycheck with a mask and a gun. D

 

CM Punk© defeated Kane and Daniel Bryan

 

This was a beacon of light in a dark tunnel... it seemed to get further, and further away though. Until finally... they blew it. Match was good. Even managed to get some vintage 90s Kane out of the old guy. I'm downgrading this because Daniel Bryan is totally out of this picture now. Probably start feuding with Santino so we can have goat face vs. cobra match for the US Title B

 

Ryback defeated who gives a crap and spray-tan guy The crowd was ready to call it a night after the Punk retention. Ryback spent the better part of 3mins begging the crowd to chant his name... Same moves, same progression, same finish. THIS IS A PPV! D+

 

John Cena defeated Big Show

 

Big Show tried.... but he's still a big fat, 40ish-year-old, blob who can't wrestle. Cena was his typical mediocre self... Psychology of this match was brutal... A CAGE MATCH IS NO DQ! WHY DID YOU MIDCARD TRASH WAIT UNTIL THE REF TOOK A BUMP! HE CAN'T DISQUALIFY ANYBODY! The real winner in this match was the NJ crowd... Stone ****ing silent whole match through. Even the Laurinaitis Attitude Adjustment... Perfect cap to an awful night. F+

 

Overall Grade: D-

 

...And people think I'm negative about everything. Wow dude. Why are you even watching?

[Makhai]

...And people think I'm negative about everything. Wow dude. Why are you even watching?

 

When did it become counter-culture to be positive all the time? I don't have to be positive about things that suck, and if you're trying to paint the broad brush here, I believe I gave Slammiversary and Over The Limit solid grades. I call spades-spades. In this case, turds-turds.

[Jaysin]

I like how Daniel Bryan selling the GTS automatically takes him out of the picture now for everyone.

 

One of the most common predictions was Punk or Bryan defeating Kane so that the Bryan/Punk feud had grounds to continue.

 

No Way Out wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great by any means. What really bothered me was JR saying that WWE was going to shake the foundation with the PPV. The only thing really out of the norm was the amount of attention the tag division got.

 

It was better than most WWE PPVs, but the tuxedo match and divas match were so bad that it brought down my excitement for the show. I didn't watch Cena/Show because I just didn't care about the finish, so I can't comment on it.

 

Layla annoys the living hell out of me though. She just screams phony. Her acting is awful and even her smile comes across as fake, then again, that's probably her cheerleader/Miami Heat girl past seeping through. I can't stand it.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah JR was just trying to give an event that needed it a bit of extra hype. Can't blame the guy for trying and as he has no real power can't blame him for WWE not delivering either.

[Bull]

When did it become counter-culture to be positive all the time? I don't have to be positive about things that suck, and if you're trying to paint the broad brush here, I believe I gave Slammiversary and Over The Limit solid grades. I call spades-spades. In this case, turds-turds.

 

It's not so much being positive or negative as it is you stating your opinion as if its a fact. Not that you are intending to, that's just how I read your posts.

 

It has been established time and again by a countless number of people that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so just because you think it outright sucked doesn't mean everyone else has to think that.

 

I thought No Way Out was exactly what it was booked as, a b-level pay per view. One or two decent to solid matches with nothing but filler everywhere else. It was what I expected nothing more nothing less, but like i said that's my opinion.

[moon_lit_tears]

NOOOOOOOOO

 

god no. Not Foley

[Makhai]

I like how Daniel Bryan selling the GTS automatically takes him out of the picture now for everyone.

 

One of the most common predictions was Punk or Bryan defeating Kane so that the Bryan/Punk feud had grounds to continue.

 

We'll see in a bit I guess, but I can't see anyway it possibly could that would be credible.

 

No Way Out wasn't terrible, but it wasn't great by any means. What really bothered me was JR saying that WWE was going to shake the foundation with the PPV. The only thing really out of the norm was the amount of attention the tag division got.

 

No Way Out is traditionally the swerve PPV. And he doesn't have much of a say in anything anymore so... He's a company shill, being a company shill. I don't have any problem with that.

 

It was better than most WWE PPVs, but the tuxedo match and divas match were so bad that it brought down my excitement for the show. I didn't watch Cena/Show because I just didn't care about the finish, so I can't comment on it.

 

You skipped the main event but defend it anyway? You act like you have to like it.

[Jaysin]

You skipped the main event but defend it anyway? You act like you have to like it.

 

Where exactly did I defend the main event? I don't see me commenting on it anywhere.

[Makhai]

It's not so much being positive or negative as it is you stating your opinion as if its a fact. Not that you are intending to, that's just how I read your posts.

 

It has been established time and again by a countless number of people that everyone is entitled to their own opinion, so just because you think it outright sucked doesn't mean everyone else has to think that.

 

I thought No Way Out was exactly what it was booked as, a b-level pay per view. One or two decent to solid matches with nothing but filler everywhere else. It was what I expected nothing more nothing less, but like i said that's my opinion.

 

I state my opinions strongly, and I don't sugarcoat things. If you read them as a statement of fact, then you're implying things that I didn't intend. So how is that my fault really?

[Makhai]

Where exactly did I defend the main event? I don't see me commenting on it anywhere.

 

I was speaking about the event in general, not the main-event. The main-event is supposed to be the reason you flop down 54.99. Tuning out and then defending the card would be like ordering an ice cream cone and I just flopped a scoop of ice cream in your hand and walked off with your 4.99; then you went... "the ice cream was good, so that's ok." Faulty logic, IMO.

[Jaysin]

I was speaking about the event in general, not the main-event. The main-event is supposed to be the reason you flop down 54.99. Tuning out and then defending the card would be like ordering an ice cream cone and I just flopped a scoop of ice cream in your hand and walked off with your 4.99; then you went... "the ice cream was good, so that's ok." Faulty logic, IMO.

 

No, I tune in to see the storylines I care about no matter where they are on the card. Which in this case were the World Title matches and IC title match. The surprise awesome tag match was just an added bonus.

 

Your analogy isn't applicable because I'm getting what I want out of the program and I'm CHOOSING to do that. The way your analogy sounds is that the WWE forced me to turn it off before Cena/Show, which isn't the case. I just wasn't interested in the storyline or seeing Cena and Show have their billionth match.

[Hyde Hill]

I state my opinions strongly, and I don't sugarcoat things. If you read them as a statement of fact, then you're implying things that I didn't intend. So how is that my fault really?

 

Stating strongly and stating as fact are two different things, you tend to go a bit too much towards strong fact the way you write. And no the whole it's an internet board so off course its opinion doesn't work imho. You are stating as fact so intend it to be regarded as fact. You are the writer, it is your responsibility to make sure that people intend it the way you want them to intend it. The way you wrote that piece did imply what he said.

 

Stating as strong fact:

 

This match sucked balls

 

Strong Opinion:

 

I thought this match sucked balls

 

Strong reasoned opinion:

 

I thought this match sucked balls because ............

[Bull]

I state my opinions strongly, and I don't sugarcoat things. If you read them as a statement of fact, then you're implying things that I didn't intend. So how is that my fault really?

 

I don't read them as a statement of fact, I read them as what they are, your opinions. I only meant that you type them as if they are facts, which sometimes give people the impression that you think your opinion is better than everyone else's, which it's not. It's fine to have a strong opinion and not sugarcoat, but to me that's not really what you are doing, but not everyone reads things the same either, so if that's how you view it more power to you I suppose.

 

Like I said before I saw Now Way Out for what I thought it was, a B-Level pay per view, nothing more nothing less. If you were expecting it to be something more than that, that was your choice and you were obviously disappointed. I personally got what I expected.

[Makhai]

Stating strongly and stating as fact are two different things, you tend to go a bit too much towards strong fact the way you write. And no the whole it's an internet board so off course its opinion doesn't work imho. You are stating as fact so intend it to be regarded as fact. You are the writer, it is your responsibility to make sure that people intend it the way you want them to intend it. The way you wrote that piece did imply what he said.

 

Stating as strong fact:

 

This match sucked balls

 

Strong Opinion:

 

I thought this match sucked balls

 

Strong reasoned opinion:

 

I thought this match sucked balls because ............

 

This isn't where I wanted this to go for 2 page, but a fact is something that is indisputable. If you can dispute it, it's not a fact; clearly.

 

Strong fact: 51% of US population is female, says US Census.

 

Strong Opinion: Chicks man... can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

 

Writing I think, or IMO, before and after everything just makes you the literary equivalent to Jim Cornette.

[ampulator]

Actually, a fact is something that can either completely disputed or confirmed, depending on the conditions that make it true or false. Something that cannot be disputed, cannot be confirmed either. Something that cannot be falsified in theory, can never be true in fact.

 

For example, 2 is a bigger number than 1. It's either true or false.

[moon_lit_tears]

 

For example, 2 is a bigger number than 1. It's either true or false.

 

Sash not true. 2 is the smallest number in the world..

 

Really Wendy and Cindi yeah...Heath made my ears bleed!

[Wallbanger]

Yes, a male Jillian was EXACTLY what we needed to give airtime.

[Makhai]

Actually, a fact is something that can either completely disputed or confirmed, depending on the conditions that make it true or false. Something that cannot be disputed, cannot be confirmed either. Something that cannot be falsified in theory, can never be true in fact.

 

For example, 2 is a bigger number than 1. It's either true or false.

 

That's a conclusion: Facts are indisputable. SOURCES are disputable, interpretation of fact is disputable, facts themselves cannot, at least this is how I was always taught.

[Makhai]

RAW was... strange. Nothing more to say about it than that. Strange.

[Astil]

This isn't where I wanted this to go for 2 page, but a fact is something that is indisputable. If you can dispute it, it's not a fact; clearly.

 

Strong fact: 51% of US population is female, says US Census.

 

Strong Opinion: Chicks man... can't live with 'em, can't live without 'em.

 

Writing I think, or IMO, before and after everything just makes you the literary equivalent to Jim Cornette.

 

IMO this is an incorrect statement Nothing wrong with being polite and establishing I have my opinions and you have yours. In fact, if more people argued like this, instead of what the internet is filled with (not you per se, but on other sites) then arguing on the internet would be a much more enjoyable experience.

 

EDIT: Nothing is a fact, everything is perception.

[bigtplaystew]

Something I found funny in the past week:

 

Dirt sheetz report that Triple H is trying to keep Mick Foley off of TV because he's never liked him and has been jealous.

 

The following Monday, Mick Foley is featured prominently on Raw with a tease to be featured in the same capacity on Smackdown.