Arrows Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I think people are just predisposed to see a guy who is stacked like Ryback and think that he must be awful in ring. I saw HiaC live and I was impressed with Ryback. It wasn't a 2 minute squash. It wasn't just Ryback beating on Punk the whole time and then SuperPunk comeback. It was a back and forth match. Ryback did moves. Ryback sold moves. Most importantly, when Ryback got screwed and he took it to Maddox and then took it to Punk on top of the cage, Ryback had the crowd in the palm of his hands. That's all WWE cares about, the crowd was HOT for Ryback. And this was the same crowd who was dead silent for every other match on the card. /nod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 If only we could watch Dean Milenko and Chris Jericho put each other in fake submission holds for a half hour, THEN I could be told what a great wrestling match is... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Ugh I just don't get why "idiotic" has to be thrown around. Here's facts, no opinions, but facts: 1) Ryback doesn't sell well 2) He's extremely green and was thrust into the main event against the best in the business in place of THE BIGGEST FACE IN WRESTLING TODAY 3) Some babyfaces aren't built to make other guys look good. Some are built to beat the crap out of everyone for awhile. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 There's still time for the SS teams to change, so fingers crossed. My fantasy scenario: Miz ambushes Kofi and puts him "out of action". Foley calls in a favour with his old mate Rocky. Heyman panics, dismisses Miz and brings in Lesnar. Now we have a strong main event. Kofi recovers to destroy Miz to fill out the SS undercard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathers7 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 There's still time for the SS teams to change, so fingers crossed. My fantasy scenario: Miz ambushes Kofi and puts him "out of action". Foley calls in a favour with his old mate Rocky. Heyman panics, dismisses Miz and brings in Lesnar. Now we have a strong main event. Kofi recovers to destroy Miz to fill out the SS undercard. They need to do something or this PPV will be a drag, can't imagine a whole lot of buys with what's currently set up. Looks like: Team Punk vs. Team Foley Cena vs. Ziggler (or worse a mixed tag involving Vickie/AJ) Show vs. Sheamus - World Title Cesaro vs. Truth/or other random face - US Title Divas Title match Random Tag match Doesn't look great at the minute . As someone on another forum said, there is a possibility of an Orton heel turn in the main event, purely because he's been begging for it for close to a year now , Ryback last man standing seems a bit too predictable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 http://i46.tinypic.com/243l26q.jpg Easy there; everyone is entitled to an opinion, now matter how impossible it is to take seriously. /nod Great contribution to the thread. A nod. Really, if you can't see why and how people look at Ryback and consider him limited and rather ham fisted, then there's not much hope for you. Having an opinion is one thing, but having an opinion that disregards the evidence before you because you happen to be impressed with a big guy who can move somewhat and who does move, is not one to much stock in. Like Ryback if you want, that's up to you. But to outright deny the reality that he is clearly very limited (to put it mildly) and that even the best carry job in the world couldn't hide that is almost legitimately scary because it shows such a tenuous grasp on reality that you have to seriously worry about the well being of those around you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
milamber Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I really hope Ziggler beats Cena clean and then cashes in on a tired Big Show. Ziggler's looked good all year and there's no reason to hold off on a face turn and title push. Sheamus and Ziggler can carry SD, allowing Orton to turn heel. SD's in danger of getting stale and this would freshen things up. That's also what I like about the Ryback push. Like him or not, at least it's keeping things fresh while they continue to push Punk's title reign. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 yeah the guy who has been losing to every top face this year will somehow beat THE top face cleanly? wishful thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crownsy Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Easy there; everyone is entitled to an opinion, now matter how impossible it is to take seriously. Great contribution to the thread. A nod. Really, if you can't see why and how people look at Ryback and consider him limited and rather ham fisted, then there's not much hope for you. Having an opinion is one thing, but having an opinion that disregards the evidence before you because you happen to be impressed with a big guy who can move somewhat and who does move, is not one to much stock in. Like Ryback if you want, that's up to you. But to outright deny the reality that he is clearly very limited (to put it mildly) and that even the best carry job in the world couldn't hide that is almost legitimately scary because it shows such a tenuous grasp on reality that you have to seriously worry about the well being of those around you. Fan, I love your participation in this forum, but sometimes your tough to even engage because you intentionaly miss peoples points or assign people strawman arguments they never made to pull down to make yourself look good. No one said Ryback is some sort of ring general or great wrestler, which is the position your trying to assign to us so you can make your argument that he sucks in the ring, and that we are somehow idiots for claiming that he's a great in ring preformer. Our point is that ryback is esseintaly the new "freakshow" act of the roster, and that we'll have to wait and see if said freakshow act sticks around (as some do) or if he burns out once the crowd, who is currently into him, gets bored of him(which alot do). No one has made this argument you want to assign to them and prove how stupid it is to have that Ryback is in anyway some sort of great or even above average in ring wrestler. The point being made is that thier are more ways to make money in the buisness than being a great in ring talent. Personaly, I enjoy the guys that are complete packages, as you do I assume, but I'm not going to pretend guys who are more limited than ryback haven't found varying degrees of success in the WWE. I'm in wait and see mode with him. I don't particuarly care for his act, but im intersted to see if he can keep the kids and younger fans, who actually drive the product since mom and dad pony up the cash, involved and stick around or if he fades away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teh_Showtime Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Personaly, I enjoy the guys that are complete packages, as you do I assume, but I'm not going to pretend guys who are more limited than ryback haven't found varying degrees of success in the WWE. Exactly this. There are quite a few people who went far with less. In some cases, MUCH less Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathers7 Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I really hope Ziggler beats Cena clean and then cashes in on a tired Big Show. Ziggler's looked good all year and there's no reason to hold off on a face turn and title push. Sheamus and Ziggler can carry SD, allowing Orton to turn heel. SD's in danger of getting stale and this would freshen things up. That's also what I like about the Ryback push. Like him or not, at least it's keeping things fresh while they continue to push Punk's title reign. Ziggler most likely loses to Cena in the opening match if they're going to do a cash in later on. Knowing WWE they'll have Ziggler announce a cash in at the PPV and then not even tease one on the night and make no mention to it the day after, oh wait.... Also can we cull the Ryback discussion? We'll start it up again in a few months when Ryback is future endeavoured for excessive botching. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I find it hilarious that Ryback goes over Fantaulous' head lol. I've never once heard anyone in this forum or any other try to make the point, "Wow I see a future ring general in this guy!" He's a monster face that'll beat everyone up for awhile. That's it. His limitations are going to be worked around for awhile. At least until we're bored of him. This concept has been done in wrestling over and over again. I guess Fantabulous is angry because he thinks it SHOULDN'T work, but it is working lol. No matter how hard he tries to tell us it's not working, it is working for now. We're not dumb. We're all watching Raw and a bunch of us saw the PPV. Ryback over. He just is. It's not really a question it's a fact. He's getting a better crowd reaction than Orton and Shaemus the last few weeks. I think it's short lived, but it is what it is. Facts are facts. Ryback's sick over and Punk's still super hot. HIAC main event did it's job. It wasn't a stellar match but no one who actually understands this business expected it to be. I'm just having fun watching a character reminiscent of the superfaces of my youth. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitywpi Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Ryback is what Brodus Clay was originally hyped up to be. Remember how they kept hyping him and pushing him off, to make him angrier, hungrier, make sure he'd destroy whoever he faced? Well... who's hungry now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 On the points about Ryback: The over-all effect of most of the IWC claiming him to outright suck, and keep putting him down more and more as time goes on (like Fantabulous does here), makes him an automatic underdog to people such as myself. I can't stand it when people get put down in such horrible ways, especially when it's mostly about in ring fake wrestling. There is the fact that it's so harsh that most "thinking" people automatically take the opposition... "He can't be that bad!" even if he actually is "that bad". The whole thing boils down to, (at least for me) is he a believable character looking at the rest of the roster. He is to me. He's impressive, and I doubt most of his "hater" crowd would ever want to step into the ring in a "real" fight with the guy. I imagine most would rather step into the ring with Bryan or even Punk, before stepping into the ring with Ryback (in an actual fight). So in that respect Ryback is very believable. He looks like he would tear through half the roster, and no matter if he can or not, that is what matters most if you are WWE. It's very refreshing to see all the people in the spotlight that I wouldn't have thought would be a handful of years ago. I've been a fan of CM Punk since his debut on WWEECW, as well as Bryan since his debut. Both were highly recommended to watch from this very forum, and I was pleasantly surprised they ended up even better then I was led to believe right here. I've been watching wrestling a very long time, probably too long. I've also done quite a bit of historical research, to see exactly how it has evolved over the years, research that I continue to this day. What has been said already is accurate, there is always that "Ryback" type of character around... going all the way back to Georg Hackenschmidt. There were people much better as far as skill goes, Frank Gotch for example. Martin "Farmer" Burns was probably the most influential as far as technical skills go, a small man who could legitimately whip much larger opponents, back when "shoots" would happen quite often. People like Ryback have existed and thrived in Pro-Wrestling even when wrestling was halfway legit. Back to present day WWE: Throwing all those insults towards Ryback doesn't make any sense, because the way to beat "a character" like Ryback, is to throw someone up against him more talented in ring... Someone like Punk or Bryan (using todays people) could beat him in a believable match by using skills that the character of "Ryback" isn't supposed to know. It's being set up as exactly this even with the announcers.... "He's just powering himself out of these holds, not using any skill, just raw power!"-Something I heard in his match against Punk. This becomes a mess when people try to legitimize wrestling. "Ryback is absolutely horrible in the ring!" as if that means anything at all to the general public. "Ryback is a big wrecking machine that powers out of hold through sheer strength alone, and no one's been able to stop him (yet)!" These are characters, and no matter if you like the character or not, all that matters is if he is filling the spot of what it is they are trying to make the character fill. Ryback does. He's not meant to be "good in the ring". He's meant to be all power... Sometime in the future, he will be revealed to have some sort of "weakness", that someone will take advantage of, and then brag about it for probably too long. Wrestler's fill the shoe's of what they (which could mean creative, the wrestler themselves) want them to fill. The only thing I wish to judge them on is if they are doing the job that they are supposed to fill. Are other's helping with their characters? In the last PPV, two people impressed me, one was obviously CM Punk, who helped make Ryback look really good to me. The other was Big Show..... holding himself on Sheamus so Sheamus could do his "White Noise" to him. IF you watch, whenever this has happened, Big Show is holding himself on Sheamus back for the most part, all by himself. Sheamus doesn't have to struggle at all. This is a great move for someone that is supposed to be strong, because his opponent can help him so much with it. Kudos to CM Punk and Big Show for their overall great performances in making their opponents look good, and by all means they did look good. You can analyze everything over and over all you want, but if you think either Ryback or Sheamus looked bad at the PPV, I would imagine you didn't really watch the whole thing. Yes, there were a few glitch's, but nothing that wasn't compensated for, and nothing that stood out so strongly as was put earlier in the thread. Overall, Ryback looked "Strong" and Punk looked "Resiliant". The ref doing what he did, left me wandering if Punk would have been pinned or not, although the announce team assured me he would have, I was left wondering if it would have been enough or not. I was of the opinion when watching that Punk would have 1; Got out of the finisher before it happened, or 2 (and moreso); that he would have kicked out of the pinfall. The ref was the same ref that messed up with Punk (foot on the ropes) that AJ almost fired, and I am left wondering (after Raw) if he wasn't trying to make up for that mistake on Punk, or if Heyman had paid him somehow to do it..... Most of all, I am left under the impression that Punk had nothing to do with it, as he said.... I believe him right now.-As far as Kafabe goes. We all know there is a plan to the story, we are just waiting for it to unveil. Either way, the story is what I'm waiting out, and Ryback is filling the spot pretty good, no matter how "bad" his in ring work actually is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arrows Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I imagine most would rather step into the ring with Bryan or even Punk, before stepping into the ring with Ryback (in an actual fight). Outside of this line, gotta agree with everything you said. Must admit though, I'd be far less intimidated by a jacked up Ryback with no actual fighting skill outside slugging than I am someone with Punk's skill set. Not knowing of that skill set and going on just looks, sure, Ryback's scary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantabulous Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 Also can we cull the Ryback discussion? We'll start it up again in a few months when Ryback is future endeavoured for excessive botching. I'd have no problem with that. I certainly don't want to suffer through another giant wall of text as someone tries way too hard to sound knowledgeable and ends up meandering on for forever. I don't think Ryback will be future endeavoured, though. I think they'll keep him around as their pet project and try and reignite him every few months as they, like others, continue to fail to understand why he isn't catching on like they're convinced he should. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rone Rivendale Posted October 31, 2012 Share Posted October 31, 2012 I don't think Ryback will be future endeavoured, though. I think they'll keep him around as their pet project and try and reignite him every few months as they, like others, continue to fail to understand why he isn't catching on like they're convinced he should. He ALREADY has caught on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathers7 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I don't think Ryback will be future endeavoured, though. Don't kill my optimism, dreams can come true Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I'd have no problem with that. I certainly don't want to suffer through another giant wall of text as someone tries way too hard to sound knowledgeable and ends up meandering on for forever. I don't think Ryback will be future endeavoured, though. I think they'll keep him around as their pet project and try and reignite him every few months as they, like others, continue to fail to understand why he isn't catching on like they're convinced he should. Everything just goes right over your head, doesn't it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I certainly don't want to suffer through another giant wall of text as someone tries way too hard to sound knowledgeable and ends up meandering on for forever. Oh god the irony of this post makes me want to keep it forever. God bless Fantabulous for the lolz. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigtplaystew Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I was reading today that Vince really struggled with the Ryback/Punk finish. They were heavily leaning towards a Ryback clean pin at one point, where he would hold the title for a couple months until TLC in a multi-man match where he's not pinned. Part of me still thinks they should have given the title to Ryback and let him go with it. But they have their RR and WM plans penciled in I guess so they kinda felt it didn't fit with "the big plan". Which is fine. I kinda like that the last few years WWE actually had a nice, long storyarc going into WM. Made it feel more special and less like "just another PPV". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
djthefunkchris Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 I really, REALLY want Punk to have the title all the way up til' Wrestlemania. I've been hoping this all year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0shey Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 From WWE.com WWE is saddened to learn of the passing of Brad Armstrong, 51, one of four sons of “Bullet” Bob Armstrong. Brad Armstrong last participated in the ring for the ECW brand in 2006. WWE understands that Brad saw his physician last week for a medical issue and was found unresponsive this morning. WWE extends its sincerest condolences to the entire Armstrong family. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dvdWarrior Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 From WWE.com WWE is saddened to learn of the passing of Brad Armstrong, 51, one of four sons of “Bullet” Bob Armstrong. Brad Armstrong last participated in the ring for the ECW brand in 2006. WWE understands that Brad saw his physician last week for a medical issue and was found unresponsive this morning. WWE extends its sincerest condolences to the entire Armstrong family. I'm very sorry to hear about this. Brad Armstrong was among the first wrestlers I remember watching as a child, back when I was really little and would only come inside from playing to watch the NWA shows or the Dukes Of Hazzard. I remember the Lightning Express, (Armstrong & Tim Horner), and always liked them as a team. Last thing I expected to see today. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaysin Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 Another chuckle... On this week's TNA iMPACT! telecast, AJ Styles came out to tell Bobby Roode to quit belly aching. He said that in the past year, he was dealing with other issues besides title shots, dealing with people taking pics of him getting into an elevator with someone of the opposite sex. Then he says "it seems to be the new fad if your name is AJ". Good stuff! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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