The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[djthefunkchris]

I don't think Cena carried the Rock at 'mania. I thought it was a great match as well. And the rock may have only a handful of moves outside of his 'trademark moves' but he does have a pretty big arsenal of trademark moves. I agree that Cena 'out-promo-ed' the Rock in their feud. But I don't think he buried the guy, they both had a fair bit of momentum going into 'mania.

 

I think in Monday's Raw that both Punk and the Rock were great. In very different ways. I actually think that punk's mic work has been a bit slack and cliche of late (still better than most, but not at his best) but he pulled out the big guns on Raw and gave a helluva promo, but the Rock was very entertaining and his point about CM Punk looking "high" was so on the money. (his eyes always look red and puffy) just a shame he forgot the word 'pipe' and fluffed his joke a bit.

 

Carried, not burried. I don't, nor did I expect anyone else to agree with me, but my point wasn't that Cena burried him. Few quick examples... Rocky starts rambling, Cena comes out to spice it up. Cena does everything he can in the match to make Rock look great (although personally I thought the ending looked totally unbelievable). Opposite of burrying. Cena did everything he could (my opinion) to make Rock look good.

 

Rock said quite a bit to make CM Punk look good (in between the jokes). Solid promo's for both, and Rocky was impressive to me... I actually expected more from Punk, but one thing about Punk is that he seems to be "straight edge pro" (my new term) when it comes down to it. He's going to make sure things fall into place like they should, which could explain why he kept doing the "switch-a-roo" every time the crowd started to get behind him. His role is "Hated Bad Guy" and he's going to make sure Rock is the "Beloved Face". So many things he said in the past about Rock, he could have said to his face but "chose" not to, in that promo... Would have made him look way too good and Rock way to bad. So for me, although not as obvious (without knowing the history leading to this), Punk hyped Rock up just as much as Rock hyped him up.. They made each other look good.

[Teh_Showtime]

Yeah it didnt feel like his promos against HHH or Vince when it just seemed like he wanted to act like an asshole on the mic with a bunch of witty remarks, it was more straightforward.

[lazorbeak]

I realize it was a dig and that Vince Russo is synonymous with bad wrestling booking, but the idea that "WWE is booking like Vince Russo, therefore they are slowly losing fans" is pretty amusing, considering his time actually booking WWF saw either the greatest or second greatest increase in business of all time.

 

Point is, with their recent quality, they are slowly losing fans. Plenty people have switched to either TNA or RoH because of the differing types of quality.

 

That's not really true. PPV buys have been up, and TNA's TV ratings have dropped by a much higher percentage than Raw's over the past year.

 

Boy that makes for a lot of excitement.

 

It's a taped show. It's not like this is news in 2013. Yes, they reported it early, but just to officially drum up interest (which is the same thing announced title change reports do when they show up in dirt-sheets).

 

 

I don't get it. It's like a more failed version of when Tony Schiavone announced that Mankind would win over The Rock. (Which was actually entertaining). It's backfiring on themselves massively. People aren't going to watch Smackdown if they know what's going to happen.

 

 

Smackdown ratings are actually up this year. It's not "backfiring massively" in any tangible way. Yes, they aren't kayfabing that the show happens on Friday as hard as they used to, but word of this stuff always leaks- now they're just doing it themselves.

[Stennick]

I do apologize.

 

Yes, yes I have.

 

Point is, with their recent quality, they are slowly losing fans. Plenty people have switched to either TNA or RoH because of the differing types of quality

 

Actually ROH is just a shell of their former self financially and quality wise. No one is flocking to ROH in fact I would bet money that they are losing fans on live gates as well as their iPPV's.

 

TNA just had their highest rating since August and their numbers have declined the entire year dropping below 1.0 several different times.

 

Show me where these fans that are "leaving the WWE and going to ROH and TNA" are at because honestly they aren't there.

 

Rule number one wrestling fans need to remember is that just because we don't like something and just because we're leaving because we enjoy ROH or TNA more doesn't mean the masses do. A lot of us want to see 30-40 minute high octane main events ala the style of TNA and ROH....the masses have shown no interest in liking what we like we just happen to be a very vocal minority.

 

 

I don't get it. It's like a more failed version of when Tony Schiavone announced that Mankind would win over The Rock. (Which was actually entertaining). It's backfiring on themselves massively. People aren't going to watch Smackdown if they know what's going to happen.

 

Its not even close to the same thing. WCW had millions of people watching live as that was happening. Half the wrestling fans in the WWE are not checking wwe.com daily to get their WWE news. Not even close to the same thing.

[Psycho Sam]

I realize it was a dig and that Vince Russo is synonymous with bad wrestling booking, but the idea that "WWE is booking like Vince Russo, therefore they are slowly losing fans" is pretty amusing, considering his time actually booking WWF saw either the greatest or second greatest increase in business of all time.

 

Remember, Russo's ideas had to go through McMahon first.

 

That's not really true. PPV buys have been up, and TNA's TV ratings have dropped by a much higher percentage than Raw's over the past year.

 

True.

It's a taped show. It's not like this is news in 2013. Yes, they reported it early, but just to officially drum up interest (which is the same thing announced title change reports do when they show up in dirt-sheets).

 

I know it is a taped show, which is why spoilers got out.

Smackdown ratings are actually up this year. It's not "backfiring massively" in any tangible way. Yes, they aren't kayfabing that the show happens on Friday as hard as they used to, but word of this stuff always leaks- now they're just doing it themselves.

 

Sadly, I have to agree with you. (I only watch a few matches of Smackdown). The ratings have improved quite a bit. It's just that, in my opinion, it spoils any title changes, and thus the ratings would go down a bit.

 

Hell, Rio vs. Show will be better than Sheamus vs. Show, so I can see why.

 

Actually ROH is just a shell of their former self financially and quality wise. No one is flocking to ROH in fact I would bet money that they are losing fans on live gates as well as their iPPV's.

 

Again, I need to agree. Their main stars (The Founding Fathers,) are in the 'Big Two', and their stars, such as Roderick Strong and Kevin Steen, might go to other companies. They may have a future, unfortunately, it may not be the brightest future.

TNA just had their highest rating since August and their numbers have declined the entire year dropping below 1.0 several different times.

 

Show me where these fans that are "leaving the WWE and going to ROH and TNA" are at because honestly they aren't there.

 

On Wrestlecrap.com

 

TBH, I'm thinking the older, 18-30 fans may be disgrunted with the style of WWE. It's just my opinion though. so I may (read: will) be incorrect.

 

Rule number one wrestling fans need to remember is that just because we don't like something and just because we're leaving because we enjoy ROH or TNA more doesn't mean the masses do. A lot of us want to see 30-40 minute high octane main events ala the style of TNA and ROH....the masses have shown no interest in liking what we like we just happen to be a very vocal minority.

 

Agreed.

 

Different fans have different expectations. WWE is marketing to younger kids, while TNA and RoH are marketing towards older fans who are becoming disgruntled with WWE's booking.

Its not even close to the same thing. WCW had millions of people watching live as that was happening. Half the wrestling fans in the WWE are not checking wwe.com daily to get their WWE news. Not even close to the same thing.

 

I know it's not close. I'm just saying it's a bit similar.

 

Both of you have a better knowledge than I have, so I'll agree with both of you.

[Lo-Drew]

Finally watched Smackdown, it was massive. The Dolph/AJ/Big E trio continues to be great and Del Rio's win was awesome. That match was great and face Del Rio right now is quickly becoming one of my favorite wrestlers currently in the WWE. Overally this SD was indeed very, very good

[Jaysin]

Trent Barreta got released

[milamber]

I can understand why WWE would want to throw a big swerve on the first SD of 2013 and then spoil it to grab ratings. Despite my own thoughts (and JBL's) SD is still only the "B" show.

 

Spoiler or not, SmackDown was well worth watching. Dolph/AJ/Big E are interesting. The Shield were there. Punk/Heyman on video feed. Rock putting over Rhodes Scholars. And my match of the week, Del Rio vs Big Show was perfectly scripted.

[panix04]

I think the only reason they have put the strap on Del Rio is to make for a more believable opponent to cough up the belt to Dolph Ziggler. Which in a way is a real shame as Del Rio has really grown on me and I think his match against Big Show was great. However i'm a massive Ziggler fan, so I can't wait to see him as world champ, the guy has been paying his dues for what seems like forever. Perhaps they are thinking of having Del Rio chase the gold as a face against Ziggler as a champion heel? I could watch that feud.

[milamber]

Funny WWE stuff. Some of them are not PG enough to post here.

 

 

https://twitter.com/WWE_comedy

http://p.twimg.com/A4uxlfXCMAIgyh6.jpg:large

[crownsy]

I think the only reason they have put the strap on Del Rio is to make for a more believable opponent to cough up the belt to Dolph Ziggler. Which in a way is a real shame as Del Rio has really grown on me and I think his match against Big Show was great. However i'm a massive Ziggler fan, so I can't wait to see him as world champ, the guy has been paying his dues for what seems like forever. Perhaps they are thinking of having Del Rio chase the gold as a face against Ziggler as a champion heel? I could watch that feud.

 

Oh for sure, that's there play, but I could see a great fued elevating both men coming out of this. I'd have Dolph cash in and win it at rumble, and build the fued into a blow off match at mania, with ziggler retaining but having him and del rio given a ton of time to work so that it can be a great match.

[panix04]

Has anyone seen Zack Ryder's tweets recently complaining about his push? Does anyone else think this might be a work? If it isn't they could turn it in to a quality storyline. Let's face it the broski needs to re-invent himself and developing a bit of an anti-authority gimmick might be good for him.

[djthefunkchris]

Has anyone seen Zack Ryder's tweets recently complaining about his push? Does anyone else think this might be a work? If it isn't they could turn it in to a quality storyline. Let's face it the broski needs to re-invent himself and developing a bit of an anti-authority gimmick might be good for him.

 

Just my opinion, but wouldn't work. He's not popular enough to pull that off (at least not in that way).

 

To me, it seems (in real life, not TEW) that it's much easier to get heels over then face's. I believe he turned himself face without WWE having to do anything outside of letting him put up his own Youtube show. Getting him over as a face could be a challenge, but I feel he does have the charisma to pull it off. When they tried giving him a rub off Cena, it didn't work (shouldn't have used Cena in my opinion).

 

Now, this is strictly my opinion, but if they are going to use him as a face, I would quit trying to hard to get him over and start looking at who he could actually help (he does have charisma, if they can bring it out live). I'd throw him together with someone like Yoshi, Tyson Kid (after he comes back from surgery), Justin Gabriel, Jack Swagger, or Evan Bourne (somewhere in there). Help bring new life out of one of them, and should have an overall good effect on him as well. Putting him in with someone way over him (popularity wise) just makes the mass want to see less of him and more of the other guy. Throwing him in with people around his level might actually help in this case.

 

What I would actually do: I'd put him in a tag team with Santino and have them win the tag title's on a fluke. I'd then have them lose it by someone taking extreme advantage of Zack, enraging Santino to the point he makes it his goal to set things right for Zack by being in his corner for 1vs1 match's, and making sure he never loses because of trickery.

 

The only "over" person I can see him actually get some form of advantage by being with, would be The Miz. With Miz being a face, I can see him pointing out Zack's ability, perhaps showing some footage of the match they had when Ryder's fan support was at it's best.

 

That's just me though... I would also bring back the Cruiser title to utilize on Raw. You have to many exciting workers not being utilized as much as they could be.

 

Probably wrong about everything, but that's my opinion.

[infinitywpi]

So, apparently, the back-of-the-box text for the Royal Rumble 2013 DVD got leaked out.

 

I am a sad, sad Infinitywpi.

[Teh_Showtime]

yeah and it wasn't proofread apparently

 

"face to face for the fist time since Wrestlemania 28"

 

but it's what I've come to expect from wwe. They are so obsessed with the past that every chance they could take a step to help their future they don't.

 

Stroke Rock's ego by letting him end a historic title reign even though he won't be around to reap the long term benefits of a rub like that. Have super Cena once again on top and dominating just like the old days.

 

And by old days I mean last year

[crownsy]

yeah and it wasn't proofread apparently

 

"face to face for the fist time since Wrestlemania 28"

 

but it's what I've come to expect from wwe. They are so obsessed with the past that every chance they could take a step to help their future they don't.

 

Stroke Rock's ego by letting him end a historic title reign even though he won't be around to reap the long term benefits of a rub like that. Have super Cena once again on top and dominating just like the old days.

 

And by old days I mean last year

 

I don't mind the Rock win, to me what will make it either a flop or a good storyline will be what they do with punk.

 

If Punk is suddenly out of the title picture entirely, and has some stupid fued with ryback or some ridiculousness, then yea, it will be bad.

 

But if the storyline i going to be punk saying " I got screwed!" and inserting himself as the third wheel in the rumored (i say rumored because I just don't believe that Vince, the king of last minute re-writes, has committed the entire RR card this early.) then it COULD be good.

 

Here's how I'd book it:

 

1. Have rock win at RR, with some "out" for punk to weasel and complain about. (could be a ref missing a call, a distraction, a doctor saying he can't compete pre-match, what have you.)

2. Cena wins RR

3. Cena and Rock go to hype the WM match the next night, punk interrupts and reminds them he's still do a rematch.

4. at the chamber, have punk be one of the first two in (another thing to focus on as WWE screwing him) have him pin everyone till it's him, cena and rock eho come out of thier chambers last, enforcing the above narrative that WWE is protecting them.

5. Punk gets a submission/ finisher hit on Rock/Cena, the other one pounces on him before he can pin the other, and eliminates him, rock retains.

6. Punk complains the next night they teamed up on him because they are afriad of him, claims he still hasen't had a fair rematch, ect.

7. continue above theme till WM, where you have a 3 way with them.

8. Cena wins with a pin on rock that punk isn't involved in (another out for punk)

 

This leaves you with Punk and Cena going forward, Redemption for cena, and Rock strong from the 3 month title run when he decides to come back next year. it also, as i said, leaves you with a hot Cena-Punk program which was money the last time they did it (punk and cena, no matter what you think of Cena's abilities in the ring, have great in ring chemistry)

 

Of course, that would require logic, commitment, and fore thought, so It's just as likely that WWE fueds punk with ryback or shemus, or other ridiculous storyline that they think is keeping punk "in a holding pattern" while really killing his heat.

 

We'll see.

[juggaloninjalee]

I love Kane and Daniel Bryan together. Their therapist is pretty funny too.

[Teh_Showtime]

oh and by the way if you needed any more confirmation Cena is still superman

 

that makes about finishers in the last 2 weeks he kicked out of before ending it with a single aa

[Comradebot]

So, just read a message board mentioning a "Super Dragon" chant on tonights RAW.

 

I confess... it was me.

 

EDIT: yep, watching a taped RAW from tonight... the Rock/Foley segment, you can hear "Super Dragon!". Im sorry everyone.

[milamber]

I'd rather see Rock vs Cena vs Punk at WM29 regardless of the winner, or Rock vs Punk II. If the best they can come up with is a "Twice in a Lifetime" match then WWE have to blame themselves for not building up enough main event stars from the current roster. Having said that, the repeat Taker vs HHH/HBK matches have already shown a lack of forward thinking so it wouldn't surprise me if we get Cena vs Rock II.

[Paul_Heyman_Guy]

So, apparently, the back-of-the-box text for the Royal Rumble 2013 DVD got leaked out.

 

I am a sad, sad Infinitywpi.

 

Don't worry, it doesn't mean what everybody thinks it means. Apparently I can't post the picture, but if you actually look at the full advertisement...and not just the one little paragraph everybody is running with...it tells a different story. It is NOT saying that Rock vs. Cena will happen at WrestleMania 29, it is advertising The Rock vs. John Cena for the WWE Championship at the Royal Rumble.

 

It is an advertisement for the Royal Rumble. There are no spoilers whatsoever, it is full of questions - "Will the Peoples Champ finally bring the WWE Championship home to Team Bring IT for the first time in over ten years?" "Who will add their name to the illustrious list of Royal Rumble winners this year, and will they have a date to go one on one with the great one, The Rock at WrestleMania 29?" This is consistent with every other PPV advertisement I could find - no other Royal Rumble DVD material gives away the winner of the match or mentions the WrestleMania main event that was set up.

 

It says Rock and Cena facing off for the first (or fist) time since WrestleMania 28 is a "selling point" for the Royal Rumble. Then it has "The Rock vs. John Cena" and "WWE Championship" in big, bold letters at the bottom. No mention of WrestleMania 29, or Rock vs. Cena being set up at Royal Rumble. And nowhere does it mention CM Punk is the WWE Champion.

 

So, people are definitely jumping the gun on this one. If you read the full text, it's pretty clear that when this was written they intended for John Cena to be the WWE Champion and defending it against The Rock at the Royal Rumble. This doesn't change anything vis a vie WrestleMania 29.

[panix04]

I don't get what the WWE are trying to accomplish with the Ziggler Vs. Cena feud at the moment. Is it just about keeping each guy busy fro a while? Because at the moment there's seemingly no point to the feud apart from possibly trying to make Ziggler look weak? Ziggler is cheating and ganging up against Cena and still can't buy a win. If they faced each other at a PPV Ziggler would look like he was no kind of threat at all, which if that's what they are trying to accomplish is fine, but if you have someone whose gimmick is they are arrogant, they have to be able to back it up to a degree or they just look like idiots. You can't truly hate a heel who is just a bit delusional can you? They need to let Ziggler cheat his way to a few victories to gain a bit of heat and momentum, because at the moment all they seem to be doing is slowly taking apart his push.

 

On the bright side and if the commentary was right this is a great move, giving Miz the figure four leg-lock would be a stroke of genius. The skull crushing finale is such a lame finisher and with a smaller guy a submission finisher always seems more legit.

 

Hit and miss booking imho and no Austin, HHH or 'Taker? Bit of a let down.

[infinitywpi]

I think they -think- they're doing "Nobody can beat Cena... but look at Ziggler! He can go so damn close! Closer than anybody! That makes him good, een if he keeps losing! Right?"

 

Whether or not they're succeeding is debatable.

[panix04]

I think you are right! I also really don't think they are succeeding. The thing with Big E stopping Cena leaving the cage was ridiculous as well, glad that happened during the adverts, so poorly done it made both men look stupid.

[jjohns44]

With a 20 years of RAW show they were definitely lacking on cameo appearances. Just felt like any other three hour show.