The Official WWE / NXT Discussion Thread *May Contain Spoilers*

[TakerNGN74]

I don't know what order it will be, but obviously Cena vs Rock will be last.

 

Also, although I know if I watch it, I'm going to be fooled many times during the match, because of the two involved, but I can't see them ending Undertaker's streak with Punk. Punk's proved to me that he can bounce back from multiple loss's and still come out on top, or on top of the discussions.

 

Personally, I would never break the Undertaker's streak. Beating him at this point is NOT going to do what everyone acts like it's going to do (it wouldn't of the last couple of years), which is somehow catapult them into a higher level. Sure... If it is Zack Ryder that beats the streak, it might help. Taker is old, and everyone is aware that he's only a once a year phenom, so anyone on the upper side of the card will just be remembered for ending an old man's streak.

 

Example: Punk win's, Punk fan gets excited "Punk beat the streak when no one else could do it!!", everyone else "Punk beat the streak after Taker was well past his prime, and he barely did it... In Taker's prime, when other people were trying to beat him, he would have beat Punk in under a minute."

 

Now, if Punk was to come out and totally make Taker look bad, ending the streak as if it was the easiest thing he's done since he come to WWE, then it might help.

 

I read a rumor earlier today on some site (I honestly can't remember because I browse numerous wrestling sites during the day) that said that Taker wants Punk to end the streak. It may or may not be true but if Taker wants someone to end it than it will end. The argument he reportedly gave was that after he is gone there is no point to have the undefeated streak hang over mania long before he is gone. Again not sure how valid this is but it does make sense.

 

I however am in the camp that thinks that if Michaels couldn't get it done than nobody should be able to end it. Punk is the only guy who if he ended the streak it could help in the long run. The other guy I think of would be Cena but people would probably be more mad at him ending that than anything he has done currently in his career. However I am torn on whether or not I would want Punk to end the streak because like I said earlier if Michaels couldn't end it than I don't think anyone should but it could also be a way for Undertaker to pass the torch to Punk.

[Ghoul]

personally i think that the wwe is spreading rumors like this to get the internet fans buy wrestlemania or at least to stop being to critical about the current wrestlemania card.

 

as for wrestlemania, not exited at all, its like wrestlemania 29 is like a throwaway ppv, badly build up, most major matches are nothing but rematches, and wrestlemania 29 is so predictable. also i doub that the main event, rock/cena will be any good, all the rock matches since his "return" were bad, so this wont be different.

[Nathers7]

It may or may not be true but if Taker wants someone to end it than it will end.

 

It's come out over the past few years that Taker wanted Orton and Angle to end it in 2005 and 2006 respectively but they both turned it down.

 

It's just lazy booking from WWE in regards to Wrestlemania in my opinion, although I can't see it being as simple as the 3 faces all winning the big matches like some are claiming, there'll be a surprise somewhere I think.

[Slim Jim]

Surely if they are having someone break The Streak, they wait for Mania XXX? Sadly, at this point it will probably be Cena that gets to do it, not that I'm a Cena hater or anything, but of everyone on the roster, he benefits least from breaking it (although, of course, is far from the least deserving, which I guess is more the point). How much higher can he go in today's climate?

 

They have a year, if Punk doesn't beat 'Taker, to build someone to the point to be believable but 'Taker will be another year older so it won't be someone like Ryback, who would benefit hugely from it if they get his push back on track, maybe Ziggler? He could make 'Taker look like a million bucks and as threatening as ever with his selling. Maybe one of The Shield breaks out, or Daniel Bryan, but really, as many guys as you want to list, none of them seem 'right' for it. So it would take some incredible booking to make anyone seem worthy of doing it.

[EpicaFan1995]

Very sad about Bearer, R.I.P.

[Jaysin]

I think if anyone ends it, it should be Punk. That's what will immortalize him. Even with his insanely long run as champ, he was still put on the back burner multiple times. Beating Taker will be his "moment".

 

I don't really think the streak should end, but if it does, Punk should do it.

[bigtplaystew]

I kinda want Taker to retire with the streak intact. It adds something special to this generation of wrestlemanias. Punk doesn't need it. He's number 2 to Cena commercially and will continue to do so if he beats Taker. IMO he gains nothing and Taker loses a lot. Punk doesn't need to be put over. And also, Punk has that ability to lose and continue to look strong doing so.

[lazorbeak]

I kinda want Taker to retire with the streak intact. It adds something special to this generation of wrestlemanias. Punk doesn't need it. He's number 2 to Cena commercially and will continue to do so if he beats Taker. IMO he gains nothing and Taker loses a lot. Punk doesn't need to be put over. And also, Punk has that ability to lose and continue to look strong doing so.

 

It's a feel good thing if 'Taker wins, and I agree Punk can lose and still look good, but I don't understand what Taker has to lose and how Punk doesn't gain? If Taker is done after this year, except for maybe an appearance or something non-wrestling at next year's WM, how does it hurt him in any way to lose? It's not like it really "tarnishes" his "legacy." He's still one of the top guys in WWE history without really being at that highest level, and going out 21-0 or 25-0 won't suddenly turn him into Hulk Hogan or Steve Austin.

 

And what Punk gains is credibility from fans that watch 1-2 events per year and still wax nostalgic about how much better everyone was 14 years ago- that fan has been spoon-fed matches that re-enforce their beliefs for what, 4 years? Taker vs. HBK headlining, Rock winning the title, Rock beating Cena at WM, Taker working programs with guys who established themselves before 2001 for the past what, 4-5 years? Everything WWE has been showing these casual fans says "yup, things were just better back then." So if Punk carries Undertaker to a great match and wins, it sends a message of "hey, this guy on the regular roster is better than this nostalgia act." Maybe it won't lead to more buys with Punk as champ, but it makes the case that he's a big deal to the fans that weren't really paying attention to his title run (as evidenced by WWE's ratings for most of it).

 

I'm just not sure I understand the mind-set that a once a year performer has "more to lose" by losing than a guy who is trying to draw money for the company at 100+ shows a year.

[JackKnifed72]

I'm not sure Punk gains that much by beating Undertaker...he's by no means old but he's not what I'd call young either (34) and in terms of ability and popularity, imo, has probably peaked. Another 2 to 4 years on top at most, and I think he's already hinted he isn't planning on staying around that much longer. Would he benefit from ending the streak? I suppose...Will it legitamize him? Probably to some, but I think that may be cancelled out by the legitimate "**** that guy he ruined the streak" mind set from alot of casual fans. Personally, I'd either have a younger wrestler with a big upside end the streak or leave it intact. I hope Punk doesn't lose two PPV matches in a row to the Rock then at WrestleMania to 'Taker, but I really don't want him to break the streak either.

 

Edit: Not sure there is anyone on the roster under 30 with the potential to be a mega star...if there is it's some still very early in their career like a Damien Sandow or Seth Rollins...that says something about the WWE

[lazorbeak]

I'm not sure Punk gains that much by beating Undertaker...he's by no means old but he's not what I'd call young either (34) and in terms of ability and popularity, imo, has probably peaked. Another 2 to 4 years on top at most, and I think he's already hinted he isn't planning on staying around that much longer. Would he benefit from ending the streak? I suppose...Will it legitamize him? Probably to some, but I think that may be cancelled out by the legitimate "**** that guy he ruined the streak" mind set from alot of casual fans. Personally, I'd either have a younger wrestler with a big upside end the streak or leave it intact. I hope Punk doesn't lose two PPV matches in a row to the Rock then at WrestleMania to 'Taker, but I really don't want him to break the streak either.

 

Edit: Not sure there is anyone on the roster under 30 with the potential to be a mega star...if there is it's some still very early in their career like a Damien Sandow or Seth Rollins...that says something about the WWE

 

I'm not sure I buy that Punk won't be on top in 2-4 years, since the list of guys that have remained on top through the first half of their 40's is pretty endless.

 

I also don't get this idea, which I've heard before, that casual fans will somehow "turn" on a heel winning a match that ends the Undertaker's streak. What'll they do, boo him even more? Not watch one nostalgia show per year? I just don't understand this mind-set that it will somehow "hurt" a wrestler to end the streak. I just don't see that.

[JackKnifed72]

I'm not sure I buy that Punk won't be on top in 2-4 years, since the list of guys that have remained on top through the first half of their 40's is pretty endless.

 

I also don't get this idea, which I've heard before, that casual fans will somehow "turn" on a heel winning a match that ends the Undertaker's streak. What'll they do, boo him even more? Not watch one nostalgia show per year? I just don't understand this mind-set that it will somehow "hurt" a wrestler to end the streak. I just don't see that.

 

Punk may stay in the main event longer, ya never know...

 

My point was, I think anyone breaking the streak will get some backlash from some fans...not the good "I wanna pay money to see someone kick his ***" heat but "I hate ___________ and the WWE for ending the streak" kinda heat. For a young, not so over wrestler, thats fine as he'd gain waaaay more than he's lose (although not sure who on the roster you'd put there) but I can't see Punk getting that much of a boost to popularity or credibility from beating the Undertaker. In my opinion CM Punk vs Undertaker, after Punk lost to the Rock twice in a row, is just bad...but I know it will probably be a big draw. Just my opinion but CM Punk is already about as over as your going to get him and a win at Wrestlemania isn't worth it...and if it's Cena vs the streak next year? Same arguement

[Slim Jim]

I'm not sure I buy that Punk won't be on top in 2-4 years, since the list of guys that have remained on top through the first half of their 40's is pretty endless.

 

He's said in interviews that he probably won't stick it out that longer. Think it was on his DVD that he said the only thing left to tick off his to-do list is his 'Mania moment/Main Eventing 'Mania and when he's done, he's done.

 

Although I've also heard him say at other points that he's really enjoying being a top guy now because of how much he can help the guys beneath him and that he enjoys being a 'Locker Room Leader', to use TEW terms, so who knows... probably not even him at this point.

[Tha Black Phenom]

It's always iffy when wrestlers say when they'll call it quits because it depends on their perception and what they're going through at the time. I recall a report of Orton saying he won't wrestle past 40. At first, I believed it, then was like "yeah right buddy" and now am kinda stuck in the middle. He can feel that way now and there's always a strong possibility he'll go through with that, but how is his life, body or career going to be when he's like 38, or when he does hit the big 4-0? Not us nor himself have any idea. Fact is, nothing is set in stone, especially in the life of a wrestler. I'm sure Ric Flair never planned on sticking around in the business this long, if it weren't for his troubles.

 

Punk is the same, I also saw that tweet of his that where he went along with the rumor, and he could decide to call it quits in 6 years just like he could call it quits after WM30(well.. barring contract obligations). I'm sure he feels his career is more than accomplished by now, it all depends where he'll be at physically and mentally.

[bigtplaystew]

It's a feel good thing if 'Taker wins, and I agree Punk can lose and still look good, but I don't understand what Taker has to lose and how Punk doesn't gain? If Taker is done after this year, except for maybe an appearance or something non-wrestling at next year's WM, how does it hurt him in any way to lose? It's not like it really "tarnishes" his "legacy."

 

Yes, actually, it does. The anomaly of NEVER LOSING AT WRESTLEMANIA is tarnished by LOSING AT WRESTLEMANIA.

 

Now if you are saying that you feel like if this truly is Undertaker's last time in a WWE ring ever again, in-match or otherwise, I see your point. Don't agree. But I can at least understand it. But just having Undertaker around as a threat, whether he comes back or not, and never having lost at the biggest show in all of wrestling is a unique and special situation that can still be money down the road in some capacity in my opinion.

 

Punk doesn't need the win over Undertaker whatsoever to solidify his position on the roster. At least not in my eyes. Punk's still number 3 is terms of being recognizable behind The Rock and Cena. A win over Taker doesn't change that. But it does make Undertaker that little bit less special. Historically speaking, of course.

 

I will say this, there is something kinda cool about Undertaker being "The Last Gunman" kind of a character, looking for the one guy who can finally put him down. So I'm not saying it's all bad if 'Taker loses and that's the ending to his character's career that he wants. I'm simply explaining my thoughts on why I feel 'Taker should never lose.

[crownsy]

I don't think it should end at all, but if i were too book it, you could do it in such a way to get the guy doing it phenomenal heel heat and set up a face rub later.

 

1. Have Punk win, but make the match no DQ and have him win by just inflicting huge punishment on taker. Like attitude era punishment with a weopen. Have multiple kick outs followed up by over the top aggression.

 

2. Have punk brag about ending the streak clean, how taker was just a beat up old man who needed to be put down, ect, ect. major I hate you heat from the whole fanbase, you have your super strong heel to play faces off of.

 

3. have faces talk about how the streaks alive, you cheated, ect.

 

3. here's the tough part and why it will never happen: Have punk win for the next 3-4 years, all clean, all from being "better" than the face trying to redeem the streak. Make him a big deal, he has to legit win these matches over top faces, ala Cena, orton, what have you.

 

4. When you id' your next "face of the company" have punk drop it in a great match 3-5 years into the future. Have the guy who finally wins declare that now "the streak is back where it belongs" hell, even have taker do a one off to come out in his scary smoke and hat tip the guy, ala what he did for HBK after he lost at WM 26.

 

Again, I think they should just let taker have the streak, but if i was inclined to end it this year, that's how I would do it. It's also predicated on the assumption taker wants to be down with WWE as an active wrestler.

[Slim Jim]

Undertaker being "The Last Gunman" kind of a character, looking for the one guy who can finally put him down.

 

This could be a great way to run with it. Having 'Taker WANT to find that one guy that can put him away. They would have to do it for a couple of years at least though and not sure he has that much left in the tank. Make the storyline not 'will The Streak get broken this year?' but 'WHO will be the one to give 'Taker what he wants and best him and The Streak at Wrestlemania?' that neatly shifts the emphasis already on MAKING the guy that beats him rather than the focus being on how (dis)respectful it would be to have someone break the streak. Almost passively preparing people for it ending over a couple of years, and with all his supernatural back story, The Streak being connected to his power or whatever is really not a stretch at this point.

[djthefunkchris]

I wouldn't have the streak get beat, but I think that's what WWE are probably going to do, since that's Undertakers' actual wish. Punk has a good chance of beating him this year, although I wouldn't do it (as I said before). Especially if this is Taker's retirement, then Punk's going to win.

 

Don't really think Punk needs a win like that, and don't think it's going to elevate him at all at this point. Punk is fully capable of elevating himself, especially if he turns Face and starts saying what all smarks think again (it's so funny how easily he wins that part of the crowd over, anyone can do it.).

[bigtplaystew]

This could be a great way to run with it. Having 'Taker WANT to find that one guy that can put him away. They would have to do it for a couple of years at least though and not sure he has that much left in the tank. Make the storyline not 'will The Streak get broken this year?' but 'WHO will be the one to give 'Taker what he wants and best him and The Streak at Wrestlemania?' that neatly shifts the emphasis already on MAKING the guy that beats him rather than the focus being on how (dis)respectful it would be to have someone break the streak. Almost passively preparing people for it ending over a couple of years, and with all his supernatural back story, The Streak being connected to his power or whatever is really not a stretch at this point.

 

Yep, that's the way to do it. And they hinted at it with Shawn a bit and a little bit more so with HHH. I wouldn't be shocked if a chunk of the storyline with Punk is along those lines. Taker trying to find that one guy to "retire" him.

[milamber]

Sin Cara vs Cesaro on Main Event was good. ADR vs Ziggler (with Maddox announcing) is the best match I've seen on SD this year. And Bryan & AJ had a funny segment

[fullMETAL]

I'm just surprised ME actually had THREE matches this week!

[Ghoul]

I wouldn't have the streak get beat, but I think that's what WWE are probably going to do, since that's Undertakers' actual wish. Punk has a good chance of beating him this year, although I wouldn't do it (as I said before). Especially if this is Taker's retirement, then Punk's going to win.

 

Don't really think Punk needs a win like that, and don't think it's going to elevate him at all at this point. Punk is fully capable of elevating himself, especially if he turns Face and starts saying what all smarks think again (it's so funny how easily he wins that part of the crowd over, anyone can do it.).

 

i agree, punk doesnt need the win over taker and also i wish that the taker gets an epic big storyline when he retires, right now there is nothing there, and they dont have the time to build one, so it will be lackluster in any way. also a win might hurt punk more then it helps imo. anyway, i dont think taker looses and that these rumors about him wanting to end the streak and loose to punk are rumors the wwe is spreading to give an otherwise super predictable match a bit more suspense.

[djthefunkchris]

i agree, punk doesnt need the win over taker and also i wish that the taker gets an epic big storyline when he retires, right now there is nothing there, and they dont have the time to build one, so it will be lackluster in any way. also a win might hurt punk more then it helps imo. anyway, i dont think taker looses and that these rumors about him wanting to end the streak and loose to punk are rumors the wwe is spreading to give an otherwise super predictable match a bit more suspense.

 

Those rumors have been going on way before this Wrestlemania, far as him wanting to lose the streak to someone that has a long career ahead of them.

 

The last couple of years, it seems to me he hasn't been involved in a Wrestlemania storyline til' closer and closer to the actual event.... as if he isn't looking to have a long anf fulfilled storyline going on anymore... Just show up, and either pick out someone or let them fight over who gets the chance.

 

Everything else I obviously agree with. I don't think it helps anyone's career honestly, not at this point. Unless, of course there is a huge lead up, where Undertaker looks unbeatable, and it legitimately looks as though the guy up against him does the impossible. However, at this point, it's... He's going to lose sooner or later, he's too old. Especially with the hair cut he looks very old... older then his actual age. He also looks beat up moreso then he has in the past. I know he can work through any kind of pain, he's shown that before, and put out match's higher quality then most.

 

At this point though, and this is the first year I've felt like this, it just doesn't look like it's an impossible job. I've tried to observe everything as a casual fan does since I been at this sight, as it helps keep perspective on what people actually think of different characters (watching with casual fans helps with that). This time, I think even casual viewers are seeing his age and going "he doesn't have much left in the tank." The bad thing about that is then it makes the win not really mean what it should mean.

 

So yeah, I agree that there should be a huge build up, and a Taker that looks unbeatable going into the event for it to mean something. Right now, without the build-up, it doesn't help anyone.

 

I disagree that it would actually hurt Punk though, because Punk would use it to his advantage as a heel, to elevate the hatred for him even more. This would give people an extra reason to NOT like his character, and he would benefit because he's great at manipulating the crowd like that. It would also help him when he changes disposition, as the hate for him would change to awesomeness. Plus, he likes to use IWC stuff to get over with them, which makes him a bigger face because they get behind him. It will mean fun times ahead.

 

I don't know of any other guy on the roster that could use it to their benefit as much as Punk could though, that's why I'm thinking they go with Punk.

[Derek B]

I don't know of any other guy on the roster that could use it to their benefit as much as Punk could though, that's why I'm thinking they go with Punk.

 

I like you.

 

I try to look at things from a bunch of different angles, which is hard. The side of me that looks at The Undertaker as a mark, makes me think he's too old looking to really keep things going... he looks old, he's never around and as awesome as he is, I kinda want him to lose.

 

The side of me that looks at it as a business makes me say "what money is there in it if Undertaker never loses?". Basically, if he keeps winning then when he retires there is no real pay off. He stops competing and the streak lives forever as something that will never be touched. Someone can make money off beating Undertaker at Wrestlemania, so from a business side of things I think he should lose at Mania, which would be his retirement match.

 

The smarky side of me, which somehow deserves it's own opinion, says that losing the streak is a payoff for an angle that has already been built for 20 years. The streak is a work, as all of pro wrestling is and streaks are made to be broken. Whoever breaks it gets an incredible boost that could carry them and I happen to be a fan of CM Punk. Punk winning makes for awesome heat on him no matter how he does it and he's good enough to make it feel like it means something. I'm also a fan of the idea of Undertaker putting someone over on his way out, which this does. And since I feel like he knows he's too broken down to physically compete even once per year now, he should lose before he appears so old as to not be credible any more. Ultimately, he should lose the streak in his final match to CM Punk. Which gives Punk the platform to launch himself back to the top again after Wrestlemania, given that he's coming off the back of some painful defeats as it is.

 

There have only been a handful of times I thought Taker could/should lose the streak. I thought he might lose to Orton. I hoped he'd lose to HBK II, if only because HBK is my favourite. And now, I want him to lose to Punk. The time is right... the booking hasn't been awesome, but the time is right. And I keep thinking it's going to be the only time we ever see the Pepsi Plunge in the WWE too.

[Rickymex]

It be cool if Dean Ambrose becomes the true psychopath he is after the Shield breaks up and goes to defeat Taker in the ultra bloody hardcore battle that could make Dean.

[djthefunkchris]

I like you.

 

I try to look at things from a bunch of different angles, which is hard. The side of me that looks at The Undertaker as a mark, makes me think he's too old looking to really keep things going... he looks old, he's never around and as awesome as he is, I kinda want him to lose.

 

The side of me that looks at it as a business makes me say "what money is there in it if Undertaker never loses?". Basically, if he keeps winning then when he retires there is no real pay off. He stops competing and the streak lives forever as something that will never be touched. Someone can make money off beating Undertaker at Wrestlemania, so from a business side of things I think he should lose at Mania, which would be his retirement match.

 

The smarky side of me, which somehow deserves it's own opinion, says that losing the streak is a payoff for an angle that has already been built for 20 years. The streak is a work, as all of pro wrestling is and streaks are made to be broken. Whoever breaks it gets an incredible boost that could carry them and I happen to be a fan of CM Punk. Punk winning makes for awesome heat on him no matter how he does it and he's good enough to make it feel like it means something. I'm also a fan of the idea of Undertaker putting someone over on his way out, which this does. And since I feel like he knows he's too broken down to physically compete even once per year now, he should lose before he appears so old as to not be credible any more. Ultimately, he should lose the streak in his final match to CM Punk. Which gives Punk the platform to launch himself back to the top again after Wrestlemania, given that he's coming off the back of some painful defeats as it is.

 

There have only been a handful of times I thought Taker could/should lose the streak. I thought he might lose to Orton. I hoped he'd lose to HBK II, if only because HBK is my favourite. And now, I want him to lose to Punk. The time is right... the booking hasn't been awesome, but the time is right. And I keep thinking it's going to be the only time we ever see the Pepsi Plunge in the WWE too.

 

It be cool if Dean Ambrose becomes the true psychopath he is after the Shield breaks up and goes to defeat Taker in the ultra bloody hardcore battle that could make Dean.

 

Taker actually losing won't help his opponent at all.

 

I pick Punk because he can take something that doesn't mean much, and turn it into something people hate him for saying (over and over). "I Beat The Undertaker, I beat the streak that no one else could ever do!"

 

Undertaker isn't unbeatable anymore, not after this year, the haircut, the way he looks and moves, etc.

 

That being said, anyone winning against Undertaker that's not ready to win a match like that, no matter if Taker is in a wheelchair at the time, is going to be hurt by it, probably so much that I wouldn't expect them to be in WWE another year afterward.... That means Dean, Ziggler, Miz, etc... None would be able to pull it off like Punk... And by pull it off, I'm talking on the mic and in the ring. Punk will do his best to make Taker look better then ever, and without someone able to do that the match itself becomes weak, the whole thing feels like a sham, etc.

 

No... Only Punk (far as current roster) can actually do something with it, unfortunately. They've waited too long for it to help anyone else.