The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[BHK1978]

Also, I can't believe what I'm hearing about 'paper-scissors-rock'. What is wrong with Scott Hall? Seriously, this to me is his LAST chance. His peak was 10 years ago and on nostalgia value he gets one LAST chance. And he doesn't want to take it?

 

To be honset with you I am a little shocked that they brought him back this time around. I thought, and maybe someone can confirm this, that he showed up in TNA sometime last year or the year before with the ICP and sat in the crowd as a legit spectator (meaning he was not apart of the official TNA roster and was not there as a guest) and did nothing but drunkley yell at the wrestlers who were having their matches.

 

Now if that did happen, which like I said I think it did, why in the hell would TNA be willing to work with him again? Like Tristram said he has no value what so ever as far as drawing goes.

[HughBatey4]

To be honset with you I am a little shocked that they brought him back this time around. I thought, and maybe someone can confirm this, that he showed up in TNA sometime last year or the year before with the ICP and sat in the crowd as a legit spectator (meaning he was not apart of the official TNA roster and was not there as a guest) and did nothing but drunkley yell at the wrestlers who were having their matches.

 

Now if that did happen, which like I said I think it did, why in the hell would TNA be willing to work with him again? Like Tristram said he has no value what so ever as far as drawing goes.

 

Not only did that happen, it happened ONE YEAR after he no-showed a TNA PPV. He actually showed up in the crowd at the next years PPV, I guess somebody told him the wrong year. I'm a huge Hall fan, so I'm disappointed about all this as well.

[Remianen]

By the way, Tara carrying a tarantula to the ring is really stupid.

 

Yeah, just like Jake Roberts! And the British Bulldogs! And Koko B. Ware. And....

 

He's probably fine, but I just don't see how he got this much hype coming in. He hasn't ever been much of anything.

 

Good for TNA if people watch because of Anderson, but I really thought he sucked. He's just so generic and I've always felt that way about him. All he has is a good voice.

 

Much of what Ken is known for, there are people who would give anything for. He's not an Elijah Burke level person (but few people that young are) but having that one hook can often make you employable.

 

Aside from Angle/AJ, the guys that stood out to me were Kendrick and Pope. Those two guys have a lot they do in the ring that I'm a fan of. I know Wolfe is the bigger guy right now, but I think Pope could easily be TNA's Booker T long term. I hope Kendrick sticks around long term as I really really liked what I saw out of him.

 

Different strokes. Personally, I've never been too high on Booker. I don't think he's nearly as charismatic as Burke is (or at least, it's not as obvious) and Booker T on the mic is like Hattie McDaniels for all intents and purposes. Good caricature though, if that counts for anything.

 

what is a solarium, do you mean a tanning bed as that would of been better to say

 

No, he means a solarium. Just because you don't understand what a word means, doesn't mean it's not the correct thing to say.

 

That's kinda harsh. chris is close. Sunrooms are similar to solariums, except for their purpose. If I remember right, solariums are built for sun exposure (and usually out of glass) whereas with sunrooms, the 'sun' part is a bit of a misnomer since they're usually built for casual viewing (not sun exposure). A sunroom is often shaded (you see them a lot in Florida dwellings) whereas a solarium by design is there to invite the sun.

 

Solarium

http://www.globalsolariums.com/PhotoGallery/homepiccenter.jpg

 

Sunroom is covered on three sides (roof and both sides) with the front in glass. You can tan in a solarium much easier than a sunroom (since the room's exposure to the sun is much longer and larger).

http://www.globalsolariums.com/PhotoGallery/image-curve-eaves-sunroom.jpg

 

ANYWAY, I liked the show a lot. They found the perfect capacity for Ric Flair and the one person on the entire roster who can profit (the company and his own stock) most from Flair. I wouldn't be mad if they build a stable around these two (get some more folks learning at the feet of one of the masters).

[ColtCabana]

yeah if he didn't do what he did to get fired he might of been WWE champion by now

 

What did he do? I've missed alot of wrestling.

[The Shape]

Didn't watch this, but read the results and now I definitely might at some point. The main event finish sounds like it just makes...complete sense, which is something rare for TNA lol. Doesn't look like they overused the old guys, and well...Kennedy. I might actually watch just to see how he gets along. He's someone who could've been huge and time after time stuff got in his way...sometimes it was his own fault, sometimes just downright bad luck. Injured just as the MITB needed to be used on Taker, the Benoit scandal cancelling the limo thing, the suspension messing up the McMahon's son storyline. Hope he makes it big in TNA.

 

Jeff Hardy though...I seriously see him making a WWE return this year, as soon as the law problems are out of the way. I think his appearance on TNA will have triggered them into giving him what he wants, be it a reduced schedule or whatever else.

[Moe Hunter]

What did he do? I've missed alot of wrestling.

 

He "injured" Randy Orton, who didn't suffer any injury from the incident. It was a back suplex that was actually pretty standardly performed, Orton just landed by rolling on his shoulder then freaked out (much like he did to Kofi this past week). He allegedly complained backstage that Kennedy dropped him on his head, which is clearly false. Nevertheless, Kennedy was released.

 

Speaking of Orton and injuries though, remember when he "got into a motorcycle accident" and "broke his collarbone" while getting his tattoo sleeves done? I seem to recall something shady going on there.

[James Casey]

He "injured" Randy Orton, who didn't suffer any injury from the incident. It was a back suplex that was actually pretty standardly performed, Orton just landed by rolling on his shoulder then freaked out (much like he did to Kofi this past week). He allegedly complained backstage that Kennedy dropped him on his head, which is clearly false. Nevertheless, Kennedy was released.

 

Strictly speaking, he got a huge build-up, came back poised for a feud with Randy Orton, and after a string of injuries and suspensions he came recklessly close in his first match back to causing a serious injury to the World champion, who has a history of neck and shoulder injuries.

 

Kennedy screwed up a move you'd expect him to hit every time. He did it in the main event of Raw, against one of the company's most valuable workers, and did so in a way that made me sit up and go 'he blew that' - and I'm not a wrestler or anything, just a fan.

 

Given that Kennedy was the one who popped Cena's shoulder muscle, which led to him vacating the title, WWE seem to have taken the view that he'd had all his chances.

[Stennick]

So I spent my time watching real entertainment yesterday in the form of the NFL and missed out on all of they hype for TNA and then their actual show.

 

I come on here and people are bitching about Hall, what happened? I read the results and he was on the show and Hogan said he'd see them Thursday so was he late? Did he show up drunk? What happened? It didn't sound like anything fishy on the results but I've clearly missed something

[Moe Hunter]

Given that Kennedy was the one who popped Cena's shoulder muscle, which led to him vacating the title, WWE seem to have taken the view that he'd had all his chances.

 

I'd love to hear how Kennedy was responsible for Cena botching his hiptoss. Was Rey Mysterio responsible for Mark Henry smashing his knee on that SNME?

 

Reviewing the footage again on the suplex to Orton, the only thing possibly wrong with Kennedy's execution was it looks like he pushed up slighlty too much with the hand that's at his ass. The drop was straight enough, Orton didn't have to twist around like he did - it's not Chavo he's facing.

[The Shape]

Looks to me like Orton was just not up for receiving a back suplex full stop.

[James Casey]

I'd love to hear how Kennedy was responsible for Cena botching his hiptoss.

 

Eh, fair point. I haven't seen it since it happened, and thought it was the other way round - Kennedy botching a move he did to Cena.

 

I suspect that Orton over-compensated because he was lifted too high. That was certainly my reading of it - and that would be Kennedy's problem. If you're in the ring with Randy Orton the one thing you don't do is risk injuring his neck. I'm sure Kennedy didn't do it deliberately - chances are he was just amped to be back in the ring, following a big build, in a major program, on the flagship show. However, he had to shoulder the blame (no pun intended).

 

However, I also have a suspicion that Kennedy's derailing may also have had something to do with his performances overall. I watch everything WWE puts out (bar ECW most weeks) and my memory of his career is basically:

 

• Blah US title run
  
• Shockingly good match with Batista
  
• MitB winner
  
• Constantly injured
  
• Made to look like a jackass over the steroid stuff. Again and again. And again.
  

 

It seemed like he was always on the cusp of doing something, but then what with one thing or another he never cracked the top tier.

 

Maybe if he'd been given a little more tolerance he could have done a Jeff Hardy and exploded... but it just seems like he was on his very last chance, and when the World champion turns around and says he botched a simple move and nearly injured him, well, his last chance was gone.

[justtxyank]

So I spent my time watching real entertainment yesterday in the form of the NFL and missed out on all of they hype for TNA and then their actual show.

 

I come on here and people are bitching about Hall, what happened? I read the results and he was on the show and Hogan said he'd see them Thursday so was he late? Did he show up drunk? What happened? It didn't sound like anything fishy on the results but I've clearly missed something

 

Scott Hall decided he was too fat to wrestle so he pulled out of the match backstage. To cover for it, TNA did a storyline where Easy E told Hall and Pac that neither had a contract with TNA and they had to earn it. Pac and Hall played rock paper scissors to determine who got to tag with Nash in the main event. Pac won so Hall wouldn't have to wrestle since he was embarrassed about how he looked in tights.

[justtxyank]

Yeah, just like Jake Roberts! And the British Bulldogs! And Koko B. Ware. And....

 

Absolutely it was stupid when the Bulldogs brought an actual dog to the ring. And yes, Koko B. Ware's bird was stupid as well, but at least he was the "Birdman" and the bird and his vibrant colors matched what they were trying to do. Jake was different because the snake was really big and terrifying and it could legit hurt someone.

 

The tarantula? It's dumb because it can't hurt anyone and when she puts it on someone's stomach it's like "ooooh gross!" I mean, it's just stupid. She needs to drop all the spider stuff. When she does the tarantula on the ropes it looks stupid as well.

 

Much of what Ken is known for, there are people who would give anything for. He's not an Elijah Burke level person (but few people that young are) but having that one hook can often make you employable.

 

I get that his voice and personality draws him a lot of fans, I just don't care about it. His work in the ring is very generic. He's not flashy at all and he doesn't excel at any particular thing in the ring.

 

Here are my thoughts:

 

Great stuff in-ring. The matches were solid up and down the card.

 

I HATE the way the end of the Hall/Pac vs Beer Money and Anderson vs Abyss matches were booked.

 

Hall looked like hell and him slapping around a fan who looked 12 to distract Nash was ridiculous. Unless this latest outburst get's Hall "fired" on Thursday I felt like that really hurt the match.

 

I think it is going to lead to him being fired or something like that, it also played up the difference between Nash and those two.

 

Did you just say that they think having Chris Daniels FINALLY beat Val Venis is gonna make non-TNA fans think he is good?

 

Wow. Is Russo still booking? I understand a feud, don't get me wrong, but if they are attempting to get Daniels "over" by beating Venis? No chance. Venis was a comedy character for most of his WWE tenure, and Daniels (other than his stints as Suicide and Curry Man) is a SERIOUS wrestler who has already proven himself to the TNA fanbase.

 

I think they are trying to get Sean Morley over with the TNA fanbase personally. I've never been a big fan of Daniels, so I have no problem with him losing to Morley, but I get why other people don't like it.

 

I'm shocked that the PPV is getting such rave reviews. I watched it, and thought I ordered the wrong show...

 

Sure, there were some decent matches, though most of them weren't up to the standards of TNA, but the PPV was packed to brim with Hogan, Bischoff, and pointless segments. Borash being "fired" on a PPV? Save that lame crap for Impact, or better yet, don't do it.

 

To each his own I guess. Hogan was on for a total of what, 15 minutes maybe? Bischoff about the same? Considering the major storyline right now is Easy E and Hogan taking over, I thought they were necessary to be on the show. Maybe you just aren't a fan of either guy?

 

I'm getting tired of TNA main events. You reverse my finish, I'll reverse yours, then we'll both take a huge bump that would finish any match, we'll get up, hence destroying any psychology that the match had, along with the credibility of said move, and then we'll go into a spot where we reverse and counter each others finishers again, then we'll end the match five minutes after it should have already ended. 5-Stars! MotY candidate! OMGZ!

 

I completely agree with this. The multiple finishers thing is so stupid. Especially the Angle Slam off of the top rope not ending the match. If you want to sell that, you need to do it the way DDP/Goldberg did it years ago where DDP was so worn out by the time he hit his move that it took him forever to make the cover. Angle hitting his moves and then making an instant cover for a 2 count is dumb. I couldn't help but "lol" last night when all that happened, including Angle hitting AJ with a Styles Clash. Hahaha.

[Hive]

you need to do it the way DDP/Goldberg did it years ago where DDP was so worn out by the time he hit his move that it took him forever to make the cover.

 

That match is something wrestlers should aspire to replicate. It may not have had a number of flashy moves or great technical wrestling, but it told a story perfectly. It had great selling and logic.

[cappyboy]

I get that his voice and personality draws him a lot of fans, I just don't care about it. His work in the ring is very generic. He's not flashy at all and he doesn't excel at any particular thing in the ring.

 

Right on, Brudda.

 

In fact, something just struck me as I was reading this. Remember the other thread recently about how great being presented by Ted DiBiase has been in WWE? And then Virgil came up. I was defending Virgil saying he wasn't as "horrible" as the one poster suggested. Noting that Virgil was the guy who happened to catch the right eyes the right way at the right time and it frustrated some folks because it wasn't their favorite guy instead.

 

That's what I see in Anderson. He's Virgil to me. If he were the main eventer in an old-school ECW or an AWA level promotion, I doubt I'd have much issue with the guy. That seems to be right about where his skill set really fits in. But in a company like WWE or what TNA hopes to be, he's in over his head. Or at least it feels like he is. He's risen beyond where he fits in the grand scheme of things. Above his level of competence.

 

In C-Verse terms, I see Anderson more as a world champion in USPW than I do an SWF or TCW. What I'd really like to see is him flop out of TNA and end up at the PWG level of the sport for the rest of his career. It's the fact he has just enough of a hook that the real-world promoters disagree and likely won't let that happen that frosts me when I see him. That hook seems to be the only thing that saves him from the exact same kind and level of hate that Virgil gets.

[Wrestling Century]

I saw the PPV last night and I thought it was awesome! The Angle-Styles match had me on the edge of my seat with all of the finishers and reversals. I was rooting for AJ (with my markiness turned on) and when Angle hit the Angle Slam off the top rope I thought that it was over. The mark inside of me was pissed off that AJ cheated to win! Remember, this is all IMO. So no arguments!

[Bigpapa42]

My thoughts on the PPV...

 

-Hogan seemed surprised by the fan's reaction to the six-sided ring being gone, and that bothered me for some reason. He didn't seem to realize that it meant something to some fans. When you are proclaiming to be "giving the fans what they want", that's worrisome. Though I have to admit I don't really take the Impact Zone fans as fully indicitive of the TNA fanbase by any means.

 

-the debut of Brian Kedrick didn't do a lot for me. Like the guy, but there are already too many ignored talents in the X Division. Decent enough match.

 

-the Morley-Daniels match left a bad taste in my mouth. I've always liked Morley and in a basic sense, I understand why TNA brought him in. Why have him go over a guy who main evented the last pay per view? Why have him rehash an Attitude Era gimmick? It sure didn't seem like the fans were accepting him as the babyface here. I guess I'm just not seeing the long-term upside to Morley going over Daniels here.

 

-I read that ODB popped an implant, the reason that the Best 2 out of 3 Falls match ended in 2 straight falls. Otherwise, I'm not sure why even use the gimmick match.

 

-liked the Mogan-Hernandez vs British Invasion match. Nothing special but it worked. Its a been disappointing that it keeps Morgan and Hernandez in the midcard for now, but at least they should be on-screen and such.

 

-quite liked Wolfe-Pope. Solid match. More than made up for the iffy Pope win on the Monday night Impact.

 

-the Beer Money vs Nash-Waltman match was better than I expected. Stupid end to the match, though. Good win for Beer Money, but a win over Nash-Hall would've meant more as they were the experienced tandem. I'm guessing the "incident" will be used as a stroryline reason to drive Hall and Waltman out TNA. Which leads to me just questioning why they brought in again. Beyond the "Hogan getting them a payday", I just don't see a real purpose to it. Assuming its to emphasize the "we're not doing that anymore" idea, simply doing that again isn't the best way to do it.

 

-Abyss agains Anderson was pretty awful. I like Anderson. I used to like Abyss, before they utterly neutered his character. But it was not a good match. The addition of Anderson is interesting. The hype they gave him is a bit risky, but it could pay off. He needs to produce better matches than this one, however. I also didn't like the use of brass knuckles - yeah, it puts forth Anderson as an obvious heel, but it almost kinda makes him look weak, when he's been hyped as such a major addition and talent.

 

-the main event was good. Not great, but good. The end kinda ruined it for me. Not just the overuse of finishers - something I'm bothered by more and more - but also the Flair interference. TNA continues to be as Sports Entertainment as the WWE, despite their claims about being something different. The heel turn for AJ is interesting, but I'm not sure the fans are really going to treat him as a proper heel at this point.

 

Overall, didn't mind the PPV but it was hardly spectacular. Compared to some of the recent TNA PPVs, it felt a step down.

[Hyde Hill]

Decent ppv not great but good imho.

 

Don't like AJ as a heel personally and don't think Flair can ad much to him, but that is maybe because I am not a fan of Flair at this point.

 

What is more worrying is with AJ as heel who is the top contender? Lashley has that tournament win for a title shot but is heel, Joe has the briefcase but is heel. Angle is face now but not allowed. Morgan and Hernandez are tied up with the tag team scene. Wolf is heel, Daniels is heel, Anderson is heel. So that leaves us with Abyss who has been losing lately but can have a good match with AJ and Hardy with his legal problems.

 

Daniels losing to Morley??? Why?? Kendrick looked good in defeat could have done the same for Sean. Both decent matches though.

 

Tara over ODB, why two straight falls? The running powerslam should have gotten 1 for ODB imho. Wasn't an implant but a bra filling/stuffing she lost. And implants can bust from impact it depends on the type as both Mickie James and I think Gail Kim needed time off recently for exactly that reason (happened during house shows). Hope they move on as these two just don't work together well. This was a mediocre match and the best of their three encounters nuff said.

 

Acquisitions: Kendrick and Anderson are both decent and expected, nothing earth shattering though and Anderson looked rusty and had the worst match of the night with Abyss who needs some cred and intensity back.

 

Beer money going over = good. Camera and crowd distracted by Hall beating up a 12 year old plant was bad although shocking at first. But given the reaction by Bisch and Hulk definitely a plant. Not having 2 advertised matches = also bad. Given the competitors involved decent match. Beer Money rocks.

 

Wolfe vs Burke was (very) good plain and simple. Love both of them and good story told in the ring. And yes that Kia girl is smoking.

 

AJ vs Angle very good match and given their past matches over the years it is understandable that because they know each other so well and are so close to each other in level plus their love and passion for the belt they need multiple finishers.

 

Removing Borash? Why? I know he is a bit of an acquaired taste but at least he has a personality. Him and Lauren where a great backstage crew. Hemme is doing decently so far. At least no Love Spunge this time. Also no Nasty Boys, OJ, Vicious or god forbid Leslie sightings.

 

Edit: Forgot the tag title bout, decent match and title change although a dq finish would have been fine as well. All four men did well and putting these two in the tags till they figure out what to do with them in singles is fine. Thought Brits would retain though given the fact that TNA will be touring the UK shortly.

[jwt13]

Did you just say that they think having Chris Daniels FINALLY beat Val Venis is gonna make non-TNA fans think he is good?

 

Wow. Is Russo still booking? I understand a feud, don't get me wrong, but if they are attempting to get Daniels "over" by beating Venis? No chance. Venis was a comedy character for most of his WWE tenure, and Daniels (other than his stints as Suicide and Curry Man) is a SERIOUS wrestler who has already proven himself to the TNA fanbase.

 

I'm shocked that the PPV is getting such rave reviews. I watched it, and thought I ordered the wrong show...

 

Sure, there were some decent matches, though most of them weren't up to the standards of TNA, but the PPV was packed to brim with Hogan, Bischoff, and pointless segments. Borash being "fired" on a PPV? Save that lame crap for Impact, or better yet, don't do it.

 

I'm getting tired of TNA main events. You reverse my finish, I'll reverse yours, then we'll both take a huge bump that would finish any match, we'll get up, hence destroying any psychology that the match had, along with the credibility of said move, and then we'll go into a spot where we reverse and counter each others finishers again, then we'll end the match five minutes after it should have already ended. 5-Stars! MotY candidate! OMGZ!

 

I watched the PPV to and I thought it was great I usaly order WWE only but this was better than any WWE PPV I've ever ordered. But as for it being packed with useless segments I have to disagree Hogan and Bischoff were on screen mayben twenty minutes the whole show which was three hours the only segment that wasnt needed was the JB Easy E segment but even then we had Flair that surved a bit of purpose but thats it. The Main Event was great and the AJ heel turns going to make him a bigger star with Flair by his side. The Hogan promo at the start was really good and I loved how he called Vince out at the end of his promo.

[FINisher]

Hating to see the results and info about the PPV.

 

- Removing the six sided ring is one of the most stupid decisions in TNA history EVER. Completely the wrong direction to go as TNA should feel and look unique and apart from WWE.

 

- I don't like the new signings at all. Glad that several of them got boo's.

 

- Haven't yet seen the Main event but I'm afraid that one good match won't save a PPV. :/

 

With each passing year I've watched TNA less and less. I'm done watching WWE and it seems to be quite obvious that it's perhaps time to be done watching TNA too.

[PeterHilton]

Weird.

 

I liked the PPV. Quite a bit actually.

 

I mentioned the booking issues I had. But other than that I don't feel like there were any "OMG this is stooopidsz" moments.

 

I've read reviews on-line that are absolutely killling the six-sided ring decision and the AJ turn. But I think both decisions were the right decision long term.

 

The matches LOOKED better in the standard ring. And the performers had more room.

 

AJ's turn was well done, and Flair played his part well. It's going to be one of those standard "if you really want to be the Man, you have to be willing to do whatever it takes'kind of deals..but a srandard storyline in TNA is not a bad thing.

 

I'm wondering who his next opponent will be since so many of the upper midcard are heels, but we'll see.

 

Regarding Morley/Daniels: if TNA wants us to take Morley seriously, they needed to give hima serious gimmick..have him reject the Val Venis thing totally and THEN try to push him into a feud with someone like Daniels.

 

There was a really good ECW diary where guys like Nick Dinsmore and Shane Helms made it a point to kill their old persona before moving into a new role...something like that..

[justtxyank]

I agree with you Hilton. For the first time in a long time I actually enjoyed a wrestling ppv pretty much all the way through.

 

On Morley: What's interesting to me is that he has been a smark favorite for years. Anti-WWEites have pointed to him as proof that the E was stoopid. Here was this great worker not being pushed to the moon! The E ran a poll on their website a few years back to see who should get a world title shot, and Val Venis either won it or came close, entirely on smark votes. He goes to TNA and before he ever works a match, those same voices are deriding it as "WCW ALL OVER AGAIN OMG!!!"

 

Give it a chance, dang! Now I will say that I hate that he is using his Val Venis gimmick still. I hate that gimmick and always have. If they would get rid of that crap I think he'd be taken a lot more seriously.

[lazorbeak]

Give it a chance, dang! Now I will say that I hate that he is using his Val Venis gimmick still. I hate that gimmick and always have. If they would get rid of that crap I think he'd be taken a lot more seriously.

 

Again, the complaints are completely justified because they aren't "Sean Morley isn't talented" it's that this guy is using the exact same gimmick that was tiresome when he stopped using it way back during his heel runs in the RTC or as Chief Morley. Not only that, despite coming in with what was a jobber comedy gimmick, he's been pushed over a guy that was main eventing pay per view a month ago! Why, exactly, shouldn't people be annoyed about that? I'd have been fine if Morley showed up, cut a promo about how he demands to be taken seriously and blah blah blah, and now he's not a cartoon character. Instead, he was introduced during a useless strip-poker vignette wearing a towel. Granted, it's hard to make room for the 58283947 guys debuting on your show, especially when you give 5 minutes to guys with legal troubles who probably haven't actually signed a contract yet, but you only get one chance to make a first impression.

 

Also, I don't get defending the six-sided ring, especially the "it makes them different from WWE" argument. Every other wrestling promotion in America ever has used a 4 sided ring, and TNA's wasn't different, it was gimmicky. If anybody could show me where the six sides made for original spots or improved matches or did anything other than look tiny, let me know. If TNA wants to be different they need more substantial differences than the number of turnbuckles.

[FINisher]

Main event was very good, perhaps **** star match but in the end only ***/***+ due to the screwjob finish, I really hate any good match to end in tainted/cheap finish. *Sigh* I think I'll just read results from now on.

[justtxyank]

Val Venis was never a jobber comedy gimmick in his prime. LOL?

 

He was the IC champ and a ton of tv time was devoted to his feud with guys like Shamrock and Goldust.