The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Stennick]

I agree the pay thing rears its ugly head but in all do honesty Tara is not the girl to be giving pay increases to. She's on the wrong side of 40, she's always harping about doing MMA, she hasn't been interesting in five years. I agree the KO's need better pay or atleast more equal pay Hemme getting 500,000 doesn't count. That being said I'm quite sure they were blowing smoke up Tara telling her they wanted to build the division around her. I think its clear the division is built around The BP's and Angelina for the most part.

[PeterHilton]

I agree the pay thing rears its ugly head but in all do honesty Tara is not the girl to be giving pay increases to. She's on the wrong side of 40, she's always harping about doing MMA, she hasn't been interesting in five years. I agree the KO's need better pay or atleast more equal pay Hemme getting 500,000 doesn't count. That being said I'm quite sure they were blowing smoke up Tara telling her they wanted to build the division around her. I think its clear the division is built around The BP's and Angelina for the most part.

 

You're right. Tara's not worth breaking the bank over.

 

But TNA made this situation worse than it should be by paying Hemme that insane amount. I think it's the combination of hearing Kong's complaints about pay along with this story along with Hemme making her money while doing zilch that makes it an issue worth bringing up.

[SaySo]

Homicide on backstage politcs in TNA

 

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-Homicide on his confidence in TNA management: "I have no faith in nobody. It's like somebody telling me every six or eight months they are going to give me a call and nothing happens... I want my money every Monday and we'll see what happens."

 

-Homicide on who makes the decisions in TNA: "Dixie is the boss. She'll say to bring in this guy or that guy, but I don't know who is the real boss. I don't know if it is Russo, if it is Hogan, or the jabroni security guards... I don't know who is my real boss."

 

-Homicide on backstage politics: "There is a lot of political B.S. going on. I don't know what's going on. All I know is I am going to go out there, get paid, and take care of my family."

 

-Homicide on Hulk Hogan's impact on the locker room: "Hogan does come out and talk to the guys. He spoke to me about where I came from, why my name is Homicide and why I have this character, and he loved it... I'm like 'okay, you like it, but do something about it.'"

[Hyde Hill]

You're right. Tara's not worth breaking the bank over.

 

But TNA made this situation worse than it should be by paying Hemme that insane amount. I think it's the combination of hearing Kong's complaints about pay along with this story along with Hemme making her money while doing zilch that makes it an issue worth bringing up.

 

Yeah that amount for Hemme is ludicrious and losing Tara is no big deal imho as she didn't really perform imho. We shall see.

 

On the Homicide comments, yeah TNA really needs to profesionalize backstage and in production etc, it just seems the organisation itself is weak. Hope Bischoff has some plans on that side.

[The Celt]

Even though I'm as big a Homicide as you'll find, do take Homicide's stuff with a grain of salt: He's not so much referring to TNA right at this exact moment as he is referring to how he's felt for like the past two years.

 

My boy Homicide has been sick of TNA for about a year and a bit now. He's definitely feels he could be doing more than he is now, in fact I hope he believe in himself that he could be a major player. And I know for a fact that if he feels he can't be a major player then he feels why isn't ripping up the midcard as LAX with Hernandez. Considering the WWE made offers to the two of them because of how over LAX was it must be extremely frustrating not to be even doing that now.

 

Homicide has actually asked for his release a bunch of times from TNA but they just won't give it to him, which sucks because it puts him in a vicious circle where he hates where he works thus his works suffers thus others don't want him as much.

 

Personally I think if he doesn't even want to be in TNA let him go. I'd be going crazy if he was back in RoH, that would be enormous fun. If he made to the WWE that'd be alright. He'd never get to be a gritter as he could be but I dunno, a tag team with Low Ki/Senshi/Kaval would be off the hook.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah I do hope they reunite LAX as they are better together then individually.

[The Final Countdown]

Why would they refuse to release Homicide, but cut Daniels loose? Homicide's been going nowhere for quite some time, while Daniels main evented multiple PPVs at the end of last year. Mind boggling.

 

Oh well; thanks for giving us the Fallen Angel back, Dixie. Feel free to send The Notorious 187 back as soon as you're done jobbing him out to the jacked up Brit who can't even throw a boot without tripping over his own feet.

[Hyde Hill]

refusing to release cide happened before Bisch and Hogan so does not really have bearing on Daniels to be fair. If I remember correctly cide's contract was also going to be up around that time so he got the X Division run and some more attention and then he resigned.

[Fleisch]

I still firmly believe TNA should NEVER have moved to Mondays. The only thing moving to mondays has done is, well nothing! They haven't gained more fans (in fact I'd say judging from this weeks Impact, they were losing them) and I know that most of the people I know who loved TNA before, don't bother watching anymore because as they say "TNA isn't an alternative to WWE anymore." The Monday night wars are over, never to be repeated so why even try? Lets have something different, where 2 promotions concentrate on their own product and forget the other exists. This whole "re-igniting the Monday Night Wars" is only going to spell the end for TNA in the long run, which is something I really don't want to see. Putting the belt on RVD on FREE Tv is a stupid mistake that WCW were doing under Vince Russo - why give away a title win like that for free when people would have bought a PPV to see RVD v Styles for the title, it makes no sense! Who the hell is going to buy the PPV for the re-match (if there even is one)? No one because they've seen the belt change to the "face" for free so why bother paying to see him defend it? It's like TNA is being run from a WCW "How Not To Book" book!

[Slagaholic]

TNA makes more money from TV than PPV. If anything i think getting rid of the PPVs all-together and having huge quarterly shows on Spike TV would be much better for them.

[Stennick]

TNA makes more money from TV than PPV. If anything i think getting rid of the PPVs all-together and having huge quarterly shows on Spike TV would be much better for them.

 

I agree with you that their PPV buys are dismal however I'm not sure TNA is making any money at all off the Spike deal or very little. Flat out TNA's NOT making money they to the best of my knowledge have never made a profit in the 8 years they have been around. Not one month have they made a profit.

 

The problem with cutting out PPV's is if your going to act like a big dog you gotta play like a big dog. You cut out PPV's now when do you reintroduce them? When your bigger? People who get accustomed to not paying for something don't like to pay for it. So two years from now they build up a large fan base thats not used to them having to pay to watch TNA and then they smack them with a 40 dollar a month charge to watch a show they were getting essentially for free on Spike every three months? It won't happen and so it will stunt their growth.

 

When you are not the number one product in your business genre the only way to get there is to spend the money to get there. I'm not saying TNA should go broke trying to become number one. What I'm saying is they will never get there if they don't spend the money and a lot of times take a loss. The key is to be smart with your losses and if you know your going to take a hit in one area try to make up for it in another like oh I don't know trim a bloated roster or any number of other cost cutting measures. Stop over paying for WWE guys that aren't growing your brand the slightest bit.

 

However after six years of pay per views you can't just say "well that didn't work so we're going to give you a "free" pay per view every three months and then in three years when you guys get used to everything we do being free we're going to start charging for it".

 

TNA should move back to Thursday nights. Hell its pro wrestling have Hulk Hogan or Eric Bischoff come out and say that somebody up north paid Spike a lot of money to move them back to Thursday nights. As far as their concerned their done going to war with people that won't stand up and fight. Instead their going to stay on Thursday nights and make Thursday nights the night everybody watches pro wrestling.

 

That way you save SOME face and still are able to move back to Thursday nights.

[Hyde Hill]

Lol they have been in the black for more then a year now Stennick according to most reports, and yes their main source of revenue is television rights fees and TNA itself does not pay 100 percent for a lot of the "written" talent and the rest are on a form of ppa where they get payed by appearance and can work for smaller companies but not for the E. The main place they need to invest is marketing which they seem to fail at.

[PeterHilton]

Yeah, Dixie has said for a little over a year they've been making a profit, especially once all the overseas market deals kicked in.

 

Never quite clear if that meant they made up for all their early losses, but that's neither here nor there...Dixie's dad wrote all that off.

 

TNA makes it's money in TV deals, but it says something that you can't write your shows well enough to get your dedicated fanbase to pay a portion of what the E charges to see your big event shows.

 

Long term they need to get that number up.

 

And Hyde is right about getting their name out there..they need to improve on that as well.

[CQI13]

Thing is, they're not that good for people to want to spend money on both companies. Ideally, I'd cut back on the number of PPVs, like what WWE had before (big 4 and some specials). That way they're still paying for the matches, just not as many.

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah but that is a gamble given as has been argued before the tendancy of people not the pay for what used to be free. Doing part pay and part free might be a good intermediate solution like CQ suggested, we shall see.

[PeterHilton]

Yeah but that is a gamble given as has been argued before the tendancy of people not the pay for what used to be free. Doing part pay and part free might be a good intermediate solution like CQ suggested, we shall see.

 

NWA/WCW first did Clash of the Champions free and they were amazing cards and enormously successful in building fans.

 

But once the PPV business picked up, the Clashes becamse worse and worse because WCW had no intention of giving away PPV quality matches for free. But the fanbase was there so fans DID shell out the money.

 

So the transition is possible.

[PeterHilton]

One of my favorite columns on the net is 411mania's Hamilton Ave News Journal (smartest column out there..and not wrestling geek "smart" but thoughtful, business related smart)...loved this bit from this week's Q&A portion of the column (i'll bold the comment from the readers).

 

Sticking with TNA, there was great concern over their ability to build brand awareness. Kimmy starts us off:

 

"Does TNA know how to build brand awareness?"

 

No. Spike TV doesn't either, sadly.

 

That would appear to be true considering how many brand changes Spike has gone through. Of course, Mr. Bischoff has recognized TNA's issues with brand awareness in the past. As covered in Issue #73 of the Journal in February 2009:

 

{quote from a Bischoof interview}Neither one of us [Hulk Hogan or I] were interested in TNA. It's a small organisation that doesn't have very much vision. The best way to describe it is like WWE-lite. There was nothing exciting there for Hulk or myself.

 

Although Dixie Carter is a nice woman, and I'm sure very intelligent, the rest of the people in senior management there are not the sort of people we would like to work with.

 

Mr. Bischoff was later asked if TNA approached him to do some work for them. His response was equally tepid:

 

Sure they have.

 

But look, the people that are involved in the creative process and vision for TNA are people that couldn't get a job in WWE or shouldn't have had a job in WCW.

 

There's no vision for that company.

 

They are people who have never been to the dance. They've never been a part, really, of any of the decision-making processes that led to the success of the industry.

 

Some of them happen to have been working there while other people did it, but have never really done it for themselves. They just don't have the feel for it.

 

So that's the reason we wouldn't want to be there.

 

For me to sit down and say "listen guys, this is what you have to do to be successful" would be like telling a three-year-old how to fly an aeroplane. You can try all you want, they're never going to get it.

 

Whatever Mr. Bischoff's personal opinions of the people who work there are, there is one point that remains clear: TNA lacks vision. They have yet to describe a unique value proposition for the product and truly define it different from all else that is available. When listening to Ms. Carter, she often gives conflicting messages of what TNA does and who it markets to. This lack of understanding has led to confusion and audience degradation and re-creation in the past.

 

Now the question is with Eric Bischoff at the helm, what is TNA's unique value proposition? Mr. Bischoff felt it was lacking so he should be able to articulate it now. MacDollarz believes they have all the tools, just need one more thing:

 

There's no reason TNA shouldn't be getting very high 1s and 2's. Please, they have literally every mainstream star in the business not under WWE contract.

 

I work for a cable company and in 4 years I've dealt with a TNA PPV order 2 times. Real ****... Their numbers are disgusting.

 

They need to advertise 20x harder.

 

Guest#9370 of why this has not come to be:

 

Part of this has been discussed - the lack of urgency, vision, and follow-through.

 

It can also be attributed to budget. Even if they persuade Spike to give them some ad time for free or for a significant discount, that would only reach people who watch Spike.

 

Nobody else has an incentive to cut them a deal though. I assume they have the people in-house to create an ad, but there is still the major expense of air time.

 

Wrestling seems to have a high payroll, as so many people are involved backstage. TNA's yearly revenues are about $50 million. I'd be surprised if their net profit margin is 5% or more. So they probably have less than $2.5 million to play with, if my assumptions are true.

 

This does not exempt them from properly advertising though. This means that making correct choices are even more important.

 

They must limit their advertising to getting the most impact per dollar. An expensive campaign that only reaches a small number of active wrestling fans is a waste. WWE can afford that, TNA cannot.

 

In spite of my complaints about how TNA has handled or ignored business, what they have done on YouTube is a good start. The Reader's Digest version of matches, a weekly round table, and interview segments is a low cost way to begin.

 

Unfortunately, that primarily reaches the IWC. The rest of the wrestling audience still needs to know about TNA.

 

And that is their biggest problem: people outside of this community do not know they exist. You said it above, TNA is not putting their advertising dollars (among other dollars) in the right place to build brand awareness.

 

Bischoff's quotes about lack of vision or a direction (creating a unique value proposition) are interesting and really true. To this day Dixie never seems to articulate what she wants TNA to be and what kind of fans she's trying to attract.

 

The product is headed in a good direction though..so that's a start. Still not sure what is truly unique about it.

 

The second part about advertising is what caught my attention though, especially with the last few comments in this thread. Beyond going viral, what else can TNA do to market to fans outside of their own 'captured' audience? Thoughts?

[Fleisch]

TNA makes more money from TV than PPV. If anything i think getting rid of the PPVs all-together and having huge quarterly shows on Spike TV would be much better for them.

 

In that case I take back the last bit. I didn't realise they were making more from TV.

[Self]

I'm far from an expert when it comes to advertising, but if I were running TNA I'd be tempted to dump a Quarter or a Third of my roster and put that money into advertising. Not adverts on Spike either. Different stations. Different places. This is expensive, but (and I have no idea of any numbers involved here, but it's an assumption) it could be far more profitable than paying to have guys like Sean Waltman on your roster. Not to pick on Waltman. First name that came to mind.

 

The sad part is, they advertised January hard and got a good number from it... but it slipped through their fingers with shows that didn't keep that new audience. There's no point in spending money on advertising if you don't have a good show. That would be like throwing money away.

[Hyde Hill]

One of my favorite columns on the net is 411mania's Hamilton Ave News Journal (smartest column out there..and not wrestling geek "smart" but thoughtful, business related smart)...loved this bit from this week's Q&A portion of the column (i'll bold the comment from the readers).

 

 

 

Bischoff's quotes about lack of vision or a direction (creating a unique value proposition) are interesting and really true. To this day Dixie never seems to articulate what she wants TNA to be and what kind of fans she's trying to attract.

 

The product is headed in a good direction though..so that's a start. Still not sure what is truly unique about it.

 

The second part about advertising is what caught my attention though, especially with the last few comments in this thread. Beyond going viral, what else can TNA do to market to fans outside of their own 'captured' audience? Thoughts?

 

Yeah I love that collumn as well and also read it. TNA really needs to work on all three key brand groups Brand Awereness, Brand Identity/ Perception and Brand Loyalty/Immersion/engagement. The early move to Monday is mainly as a way to increase awereness in a relativly cheap way, by going to where the biggest audience is and being more talked about in mainstream and non mainstream media by going up against the big dog.

 

People on these boards sometimes forget how little people actually know TNA even exists. One example is when Christian came back to WWE a lot of people asked him where he had been the last couple of years. As in 8 out of 10 fans a lot.

 

At the moment they are working on creating awereness but are not succeeding at the same time in giving out a good and clear identity and make those that become aware customers.

 

If you like Hamilton you should also check out Bill Behren's podcast on who is slamming who. He often discusses similar topics and using facts etc to back it up, plus he has inside knowledge of TNA, having worked there and being the agent for many current, including AJ, and past TNA talent.

[Hyde Hill]

NWA/WCW first did Clash of the Champions free and they were amazing cards and enormously successful in building fans.

 

But once the PPV business picked up, the Clashes becamse worse and worse because WCW had no intention of giving away PPV quality matches for free. But the fanbase was there so fans DID shell out the money.

 

So the transition is possible.

 

Yeah I am inclined to feel more like that, but others like Remi and Stennick have argued the other side of the coin as well and very well, so its a gamble either way. In the case of TNA I would take it though. That is why I am so curious as to when their ppv contracts elapse and their contract with Universal as it pertains to taking the show on the road. Can not find that info anywhere

[PeterHilton]

If you like Hamilton you should also check out Bill Behren's podcast on who is slamming who. He often discusses similar topics and using facts etc to back it up, plus he has inside knowledge of TNA, having worked there and being the agent for many current, including AJ, and past TNA talent.

 

link? i'd definitely check it out.

 

And for the record, love this board because I get to talk to guys like you, stennick, remi, Self..etc..who are wrestling fans without being..y'know..nut jobs.

 

Kudos to the Dog Pound.

[Hyde Hill]

link? i'd definitely check it out.

 

And for the record, love this board because I get to talk to guys like you, stennick, remi, Self..etc..who are wrestling fans without being..y'know..nut jobs.

 

Kudos to the Dog Pound.

 

Thanks mate, and yep can not love the pound enough for its high level of educated smart marks as I like to call em.

 

Link to who is slamming who: http://whosslammingwho.podomatic.com/

 

Its called inside the Behren's bubble, some of his earlier ones are great as well, its weekly plus you can listen to Cornette's weakly rant about everything and anything on the same site.

[TracyBrooksFan]

TNA Wrestling Effective immediately, TNA Wrestling has elected to terminate the services of Todd Clem p/k/a Bubba the Love Sponge.

 

http://www.facebook.com/tnawrestling/posts/113395178699970

[Slagaholic]

As if more proof was needed that TNA moving to monday nights was a terrible decision. The replay got a .69 beating the "live" showing by .19.