The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[PeterHilton]

Read it on 411wrestling.com who credits PWInsider

 

In its first show back on Thursdays, last night's Impact scored a 0.93 rating with 1,275,000 viewers.

 

 

So not a 1.0 or better but well over a million viewers.

 

Still a bad sign. They spent millions of dollars, did tons of promotion, brought in every major star they could sign, and then got their asses handed to them on Monday...only to come back to score right around what they were doing BEFORE Hogan and Co showed up

 

Unless TNA can get up to the high 1's low 2's in the next few months, this whole experiment has been an abject failure. They could've just stayed on the same track and achieved more over the long term.

[GDE71]

Still a bad sign. They spent millions of dollars, did tons of promotion, brought in every major star they could sign, and then got their asses handed to them on Monday...only to come back to score right around what they were doing BEFORE Hogan and Co showed up

 

Unless TNA can get up to the high 1's low 2's in the next few months, this whole experiment has been an abject failure. They could've just stayed on the same track and achieved more over the long term.

 

 

It's a shame they can't shave the roster to a workable level and not look bad while doing so.

 

With 2 hours of TV how many workers should they REALLY have? 2 hours really only gives them 90 minutes or less once the commercials are taken out. So if you want to fit in 6 matches a week and some angles, how many workers can you keep in front of the viewers?

 

4 singles matches and 2 tag matches? That's 16 on screen. Announcers and backstage puts you at 20. Authority figures, 22. Extra singles, 26. Extra tags, 34. Inflate a little for injuries and you have 40.

 

So does TNA have 20+ too many workers?

[ampulator]

The problem isn't really how many people they have... it's how they use them. You could give them THREE hours.... and they still won't have enough to showcase their better workers, because the show will oversaturated with people that don't need that much TV time.

[Stennick]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="PeterHilton" data-cite="PeterHilton" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Still a bad sign. They spent millions of dollars, did tons of promotion, brought in every major star they could sign, and then got their asses handed to them on Monday...only to come back to score right around what they were doing BEFORE Hogan and Co showed up<p> </p><p> Unless TNA can get up to the high 1's low 2's in the next few months, this whole experiment has been an abject failure. They could've just stayed on the same track and achieved more over the long term.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Please don't go! Please don't go! <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p><p> </p><p> Seriously though you always take the words right out of my mouth. They scored a .93 WITH Hogan, Flair, Bischoff, RVD, Hardy how much money does that cost them on a monthly basis and for what? Credibility? Nobody is going to tune into TNA and say "wow theres Hulk Hogan still in a bandana and saying "brother" every five minutes my GRANDfather remembers him wrestling." </p><p> </p><p> Then their going to see where Hogan's at in some dingy little studio in front of around a 1,000 fans and their going to turn the channel laughing to themselves. </p><p> </p><p> RVD isn't the draw he thinks he is. He was over for a short while in 01 and maybe they could have done more with him but then he was all but buried in 02 and left to wallow in the mid card until he decided to screw up what he had to know was his ONLY shot at becoming a true "name". RVD is about as popular as Matt Hardy. I know it sucks but more people recognize Matt Hardy than RVD I'd bet money on it. </p><p> </p><p> Bischoff has done nothing in the six months he's there. The T.V has been ok but they didn't bring him back to write television hell he didn't write most of WCW's crap he left that to Sullivan, Taylor, Dillon and whoever else. In 95 and 96 he did things like give away results, market the hell out of their product, do the exact OPPOSITE of what Vince was doing at the time as far as arena look, set, characters, and storylines. He counter programmed so when it was time to flip the channel because of commercial he was still on television. He was in the media. Then after he started getting to the ten weeks in a row, and thirty weeks in a row the guy coasted. He checked out and became the guy that Hogan or whoever else went to when they wanted to complain about "not looking bad on t.v brother". He came into TNA and what has he done? </p><p> </p><p> Hogan's done even less than that. He's just not the name he was. Nobody really gives a damn about him more than a passing moment or two. Sure he's recognizable but nobody wants to BUY anything from him anymore. Hell he's not even presented in an interesting way on television. He's supposed to be "the boss" well that doesn't work for Hogan's character. Hogan's character is John Cena V.1 take on unbeatable bad guy in unbeatable odds and come out victorious only to wash, rinse and repeat. All while proclaiming how its the fans and his hard training and his never say die attitude that got it done. His act was stale in 1995 until they turned him heel nobody gave a damn about Hogan. He was heel for three years they turned him back to the "red and white" and nobody gave a damn still until he came back to the WWE and did the equalivant of a touring contract. He'd come in for three or four months, feud with one or two guys draw some money and leave before the fans got sick of him. He'd come back and get cheered and do it again. That finally ran dry after they milked it for four years and now the guy has nothing left. One minute he's just supposed to be the boss and refusing to get involved the very next week he's beating up the entire roster and calling out Sting. </p><p> </p><p> Hardy was one of the most popular guys in the "E" but after debuting in January he was nowhere to be found until March taking five months out of the limelight and then coming in un announced and he's done little to nothing since coming in. A lot of his popularity was storyline driven feuds with money guys like Orton and Punk.</p><p> </p><p> They hired all of these guys that they can't use right or have no real use to the business left in the first place.</p>

[Hyde Hill]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Slagaholic" data-cite="Slagaholic" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>They never showed Desmond Wolfe on camera. And Hogan milked that "but I don't want to" for far too long. The segment was poorly filmed.<p> </p><p> Back to the Orlando Jordan character. I think building him up as a Weirdo Bi Bad Ass could work.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It could work if as discussed before it wasn't Orlando Jordan doing it. The lines they have given him and apart from the milk segment the booking he has had has not been that bad but his delivery of the angles and execution of the persona is just god damn awfull.</p>

[Hyde Hill]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Please don't go! Please don't go! <img alt=":D" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/biggrin.png.929299b4c121f473b0026f3d6e74d189.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /><p> </p><p> Seriously though you always take the words right out of my mouth. They scored a .93 WITH Hogan, Flair, Bischoff, RVD, Hardy how much money does that cost them on a monthly basis and for what? Credibility? Nobody is going to tune into TNA and say "wow theres Hulk Hogan still in a bandana and saying "brother" every five minutes my GRANDfather remembers him wrestling." </p><p> </p><p> Then their going to see where Hogan's at in some dingy little studio in front of around a 1,000 fans and their going to turn the channel laughing to themselves. </p><p> </p><p> RVD isn't the draw he thinks he is. He was over for a short while in 01 and maybe they could have done more with him but then he was all but buried in 02 and left to wallow in the mid card until he decided to screw up what he had to know was his ONLY shot at becoming a true "name". RVD is about as popular as Matt Hardy. I know it sucks but more people recognize Matt Hardy than RVD I'd bet money on it. </p><p> </p><p> Bischoff has done nothing in the six months he's there. The T.V has been ok but they didn't bring him back to write television hell he didn't write most of WCW's crap he left that to Sullivan, Taylor, Dillon and whoever else. In 95 and 96 he did things like give away results, market the hell out of their product, do the exact OPPOSITE of what Vince was doing at the time as far as arena look, set, characters, and storylines. He counter programmed so when it was time to flip the channel because of commercial he was still on television. He was in the media. Then after he started getting to the ten weeks in a row, and thirty weeks in a row the guy coasted. He checked out and became the guy that Hogan or whoever else went to when they wanted to complain about "not looking bad on t.v brother". He came into TNA and what has he done? </p><p> </p><p> Hogan's done even less than that. He's just not the name he was. Nobody really gives a damn about him more than a passing moment or two. Sure he's recognizable but nobody wants to BUY anything from him anymore. Hell he's not even presented in an interesting way on television. He's supposed to be "the boss" well that doesn't work for Hogan's character. Hogan's character is John Cena V.1 take on unbeatable bad guy in unbeatable odds and come out victorious only to wash, rinse and repeat. All while proclaiming how its the fans and his hard training and his never say die attitude that got it done. His act was stale in 1995 until they turned him heel nobody gave a damn about Hogan. He was heel for three years they turned him back to the "red and white" and nobody gave a damn still until he came back to the WWE and did the equalivant of a touring contract. He'd come in for three or four months, feud with one or two guys draw some money and leave before the fans got sick of him. He'd come back and get cheered and do it again. That finally ran dry after they milked it for four years and now the guy has nothing left. One minute he's just supposed to be the boss and refusing to get involved the very next week he's beating up the entire roster and calling out Sting. </p><p> </p><p> Hardy was one of the most popular guys in the "E" but after debuting in January he was nowhere to be found until March taking five months out of the limelight and then coming in un announced and he's done little to nothing since coming in. A lot of his popularity was storyline driven feuds with money guys like Orton and Punk.</p><p> </p><p> They hired all of these guys that they can't use right or have no real use to the business left in the first place.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Well Bischoff has done some good, the new documentary style backstage stuff is his input and the pacing of the show has gone down a bit but is still too fast. And apart from ratings everything else is up, but yeah they need major help in the production department. Hogan apart from selling merch and giving them inroads to mainstream attention has done zilch except overbook himself.</p><p> </p><p> I wanted to post about this earlier but seems I was pre empted about them actually making the backstage area seem second rate. There is absolutely no freaking reason for this. Keep the shots within the dressing rooms or within the "walls" of the interview areas. Ad the rafters for Sting and you are done.</p><p> </p><p> Good case in point this week was the snafu with Neal and Moore where you could hear Kendrick being introduced and Williams coming out. This happened before the Band won the titles and they are talking about facing the Band for the titles in the segment.</p><p> </p><p> On the themes, well they are not that bad imho but skipping them so many times for so many workers does not help, plus it helps to have a simple and catchy opening to a tune so you immediately know who it is. This is something the E always does and is not that hard to ad.</p><p> </p><p> On the Band segment. Like I said before good continuity and if they lose the straps asap to one of the younger teams its not that bad. But looking at the segment itself. Morgan destroys both of Gen Me pretty much burying them but adding to his cred as an unstoppable big guy. This cred is then immediately destroyed by Joe being an even more unstoppable guy. The Band then takes extremely long to get to ringside and all the while Morgan is still out from the 2 moves and 2 punches from Joe. Then they get an easy 1,2,3. Not making the Band more over or anything and giving them belts they do not really need. So who got more over here. Joe a little bit (, He could have just destroyed OJ or anybody else for that matter or gotten involved in the ME,) Morgan got less over, Gen Me got less over, the Band won nothing. Sorry but that is bad f'n booking.</p><p> </p><p> Abyss stuff just smacked Elizabeth, Goldberg to me. It was crappy then it was even crappier now. I like Chelsea looks wise but Wolf does not need her, but it is good to see him being the dominant one in that relation again.</p><p> </p><p> Edit: On the costs, TNA's actual costs have not gone up much as Spike footed and is footing a lot of the bill, still they probably are not very happy with the results so far so TNA can count themselves lucky they still have 2 and a half years on the contract.</p>

[Hyde Hill]

<p>On the whole all the changes to TNA while some have been plus, more have been minus so far so its still a negative imho.</p><p> </p><p>

Hogan and Dixie need to stop meddling with creative. Russo and Ferrara need to go. Hogan should focus on being the TNA mainstream ambassador, Dixie should focus on the business side, Bischoff should focus on production and creative. New head of creative and secondary is needed badly with Conway remaining the junior in training. Of the trusted names out there I would say Heyman as head and Bill Behren's as secondary. Also bring in a new head of production with a lot of experience and hire a pr and marketing firm.</p>

[Shmoe]

<p>TNA ...I loved you. How could you do this to me?</p><p> </p><p>

There's no focus, everything is convoluted, over-complicated, over-drawn. I'm the biggest RVD mark in the world, and how have they really made him look as champion? Not ...much different. When I don't care for your company when you have RVD as your champion, you're doing something terribly wrong.</p><p> </p><p>

Also ...I swear they released Christopher Daniels (oh, which WTF), but he's still on the roster page. Wassupwitdat?</p>

[Hyde Hill]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Shmoe" data-cite="Shmoe" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>TNA ...I loved you. How could you do this to me?<p> </p><p> There's no focus, everything is convoluted, over-complicated, over-drawn. I'm the biggest RVD mark in the world, and how have they really made him look as champion? Not ...much different. When I don't care for your company when you have RVD as your champion, you're doing something terribly wrong.</p><p> </p><p> Also ...I swear they released Christopher Daniels (oh, which WTF), but he's still on the roster page. Wassupwitdat?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Reportedly, so take with grain/mountain of salt, they are trying to get him to sign a new deal which would be a ppa instead of the written he was on as a cost cutting measure. Otherwise chalk it up to the crappy TNA website team. For instance Creed and the Nasties where on there long after release as well.</p><p> </p><p> TNA really, really, really need to invest in a better support crew in all areas. The talent on the roster is there to put on amazing shows, all the rest of the areas are flawed. I can not think of one area where they are not making glaring and obvious mistakes.</p>

[cappyboy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>In in the NWA, WCW whatever and whenever the music was clear and you could atleast tell who it was. You can barely hear the music and their in a t.v studio. Never once have I ever recognized a single TNA them other than one of the Abyss themes. You can barely hear them, they all sound generic. Really its hard to take them serious when you see how small the studio their in. <p> </p><p> The WWE is filling up stadiums and arenas world wide and TNA jams roughly 1300 fans into the arena. When I tune into the WWE they have these huge titan trons and big sets and then I tune over to TNA and its hard to hear, its dimly lit, sometimes its so quiet you can hear a pin drop and when it is loud it sounds more like a feisty night at grandma's bingo more than a major wrestling t.v show. </p><p> </p><p> TNA is so focused on guys like Flair and Hogan lending them cred when in reality the casual fan is going to tune in and say "man they must be hurting for money bad if their in this dingy little place". </p><p> </p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Before I start, keep in mind that I'm NOT saying you're wrong per se.</p><p> </p><p> I do, however, think you're kinda overplaying the card here. Maybe it's a sign that I'm pushing 40 and thus there's a generational factor at play. But I find this production talk is far too often prone to falling into hyperbole. No knock on you. That's just in general.</p><p> </p><p> You can barely hear the music? REALLY?!! I'd consider getting your checked then. Forgive me if that sounds like a broadside but I never have the TV above what our societial nanny wannabes would take issue with and I never have any trouble hearing the music. I occasionally have trouble with WISHING I couldn't hear but that's more because of the talent the music's tied to than it is Production's fault.</p><p> </p><p> The TV studio vs arena thing is kinda fair I guess. Can we call it fair-ISH without the grammar geeks going nuts? Because that seems to be the best description I have. But even at that, you kinda have to go out of your way to think about that. Given that it's in a TV studio, they do really well at dressing that fact up. This could be a case of the generational rearing its head. But I've seen a lot of indies and wannabe big boys who filmed in studios over the years. Yet I can't remember a one that looked as good as TNA doing it. Most of them weren't big enough to dream of having a studio as grand as TNA's. </p><p> </p><p> And I certainly wouldn't call them dimly lit or dingy. Places like ECW, the AWA or Global that had national presences on a similar profile of networks as TNA currently has on Spike never looked as bright or polished. I know TNA wants to be considered major. But you know what? So does every promotion that has any reach. Unless you're a WWE or SWF, it's part of creating your promotion's story world and making it matter that you portray yourself as bigger than you technically are. </p><p> </p><p> At the same time I get being a fan on the outside looking in and wanting more from a company that tries to play the big shot. I don't even disagree with that impulse. But this sounds like an admittedly understandable lack of perspective due to the lack of visible indies. If you could have say more disccused underlings like RoH on Versus, CHIKARA on FX, and maybe a regional indy or two in (dare I suggest it?) syndication, there'd be a wider pool to judge TNA on production wise and perhaps more realistic standards for them would prevail. But when the only other highly visible standard is WWE? I'm sorry but pie in the sky expectations are inevitable. And while it shouldn't be, that's what it made to appear you're doing. Talking pie in the sky.</p><p> </p><p> Now admittedly, I do come from a long-time fan perspective and have seen much the casual observer you mention wouldn't have. And yes, I do have fairly low tech senses. Always have. So if you want to say I'm too forgiving, I'm willing to accept that. But when the folks below them can't even produce shows deemed worthy of outlets casual fans can access easily, is TNA really that far out of line? Heck, it wasn't too long ago TNA themselves was confined behind the niche-channel fence of digital cable here in VA Beach.</p>

[Hyde Hill]

Yep for the budget they have and the accommodation they are not doing too bad, its just small production gaffes etc and exposing the set etc when its not necessary that is a real major problem. And that does not cost money, just a different way of doing things and being better. Nobody expects them to be like the E in terms of quality that costs money but they need to do better with what they have.

 

Simple one is for instance the pyro. Either have good pyro or none at all. Same with the lasers, have them ad to the entrance and do a certain sequence and not have them just shooting all over the place or just do not use them. Admittedly better pyro costs more money but the rest is a question of presentation and production.

 

Edit: On the themes, I can hear them fine and I think almost everyone can its just some are not immediatly recognisable and the level of ambient noise vs entrance theme noise seems off as you can hear the crowd too much. Its more a balance thing them decibel level thing.

[Comradebot]

Yep for the budget they have and the accommodation they are not doing too bad, its just small production gaffes etc and exposing the set etc when its not necessary that is a real major problem. And that does not cost money, just a different way of doing things and being better. Nobody expects them to be like the E in terms of quality that costs money but they need to do better with what they have.

 

Simple one is for instance the pyro. Either have good pyro or none at all. Same with the lasers, have them ad to the entrance and do a certain sequence and not have them just shooting all over the place or just do not use them. Admittedly better pyro costs more money but the rest is a question of presentation and production.

 

Edit: On the themes, I can hear them fine and I think almost everyone can its just some are not immediatly recognisable and the level of ambient noise vs entrance theme noise seems off as you can hear the crowd too much. Its more a balance thing them decibel level thing.

 

Their themes, for the most part, suck ass. There is simply nothing iconic about the vast majority of them and are worse than the generic stuff you could give created wrestlers in WWF Attitude back in the mid-90s on the playstation one. And Kurt Angle's rap entrance will always stick out as one of the least fitting themes in the history of ever.

 

They're not as bad as they used to be, but TNA's theme music is still far below average. It's maybe a step above the gauntlet of mostly the same sounding speed metal many ROH wrestlers uses right now (and only because I like Anderson's, RVD's, and Hogan's themes), but at least ROH uses their talent to the best of their abilities and rarely leaves me scratching my head with their writing. (But seriously, the constant RAAAAAAWWWWWRRRRR metal drives the living hell out of me.)

[Stennick]

I hold them to a higher standard because they TELL me to. Their constantly going on and one "TNA is the place to be" "TNA is where all the wrestlers wanna be" "Monday night wars". I understand some of that is hype but at the same time ROH was on Monday nights before TNA and I didn't hear a word about Monday night wars from them. I understand their on a fraction of the network but even if they were on Spike I can't imagine hearing Prazak going on and on about a Monday night war. In the media you got Bischoff and Hogan taking constant shots at Vince which would be fine if they were on his heels but when their not even his league its like Dre said "move units then we'll do this". Meaning become relevant and then we'll take some shots back and forth.

 

My biggest point was Hogan, Flair, Hardy, RVD, Hall and who knows who else and they still are drawing the same rating they were in 2006. My point was that Hogan's what a million, Flair's another mil, Bischoff I bet has a sweet deal, RVD and Hardy didn't come into TNA for their passion of the business. Hall I'd be willing to bet isn't there for free as much talk about this being his "last chance" you know Hogan, Nash and others got him a sweet deal.

 

Their spending all this money on guys and for what? What are they getting in return? Credibility? What good is credibility when it does nothing to grow your audience? Its presumably the same audience for the last four years that 1.0 audience you already had cred with them. They popped over two million viewers in January and those fans haven't been back since. They could use that money they have wasted on guys nobody wants to see and produced better television from it.

 

If TNA would just admit to being a really big indy company I'd have no problem with their setup. However they constantly tell me their right behind Vince and their doing all these great things but then I get the feel of 1980 Saturday Night WCW with the dimly lit arena and a few fans.

[Comradebot]

If TNA would just admit to being a really big indy company I'd have no problem with their setup. However they constantly tell me their right behind Vince and their doing all these great things but then I get the feel of 1980 Saturday Night WCW with the dimly lit arena and a few fans.

 

Which, honestly, ISN'T a bad thing. In fact, I like the "old school" vibe I sometimes get from TNA. Heck, if anything they should embrace it. Well, I guess they do if you count the guys they've signed who were also on 1980 Saturday Night WCW...

 

But no, they're not "right behind" Vince, except in the sense they're in a very distant second place.

[Hyde Hill]

Ok do please stop with the jokes that enforce semi false perception, I come here to be free of those.

 

Also Stennick what you seem to forget is that Spike is paying the majority of these bills. Apparently Spike was not willing to put money into better production and advertising etc but where willing to pay or in part pay for Hogan etc. Also TNA gets no money for ratings. They get a rights fee and a bonus if they deliver a really good rating and that is it. All other figures that generate income for TNA are up, house show attendance, merchandise, ppv buys etc. I would not be surprised that on the Hogan name alone they secured the new deal in the Middle East. Plus all other television viewing numbers are up. Its just the states where they are flat. Now long term this will be a problem for when the Spike tv deal is up and the ratings have not improved. Spike will refuse to pay for a lot of the names etc and maybe offer not as good a deal. On the otherside that will mean Spike will have less influence on the booking and even with 0.9's TNA is one of their highest rated shows. Yes you are right that with the talent on board now TNA should be doing even better in all aspects, you are wrong that its costing them money though.

 

On the hype, perception etc. TNA is a distant second and yes since Hogan has come aboard they overhyped themselves and did not deliver quality wise. Does this have anything to do with the quantity of the production values? Not much imho. If they had kept their Jan 4th momentum and had built on it and all the other figures had gone up more I am sure they would have increased the quantity. Quantity being those things you can improve by spending more, what they need to focus on and I will grant you that is the quality but that has actually improved since the new regime, are there still glaring snafu's yep, are there less and is the overall production better? yep.

 

Look for in house themes most of the TNA themes are pretty good, they do not have the resources or are at this moment unwilling to put in the resources to make them better or hire bands to perform them. Are they different from the E? Yeps. Are they worse? Somewhat. Are they better then they used to be or any indie? Hells yes.

[Stennick]

It was under my impression that Spike wasn't paying any of their workers anymore. I know back in the day they paid half of Sting's salary but I was under the impression that Hogan, Flair and Bischoff had deals with Panda for fear if TNA went under they wouldn't get their money. I don't know how much these guys are getting paid but it would seem like a bad business decision to pour literally millions into TNA's salaries. Who knows who the contracts are under but I'm fairly certain Spike isn't paying any more salaries since back when they first brought Sting in.

 

It feels like their is a double standard sort of with TNA. They bring in Hogan, Bischoff, Flair, etc. they hype up Monday Night Wars they say their taking the company to never before seen heights, their the place everybody wants to be, etc. They say all this on national television and thats fine. I understand hyperbole and wrestling is full of it but you have to be able to back it up on some sort of level.

 

They say all this and then people turn around (people in general) turn around and say "well their just not big enough to support personalized themes, and big arenas".

 

Why are they presenting themselves as a national powerhouse and bringing in every star from 15 years ago they can find to then turn around and say "look we're not big enough for those fancy themes, cool sets, etc..

 

They had ten days to edit Impact and there are several scenes where they completely screwed up. When Smackdown is taped you always hear about retakes, re shoots, voice overs, edits essentially their all over that taped product to make sure any mistakes or mishaps are taken care of.

 

Maybe I'm spoiled in the fact that I remember clearly WCW and the WWF Monday Night Wars. And when they took shots at one another you felt like both had valid points and they were neck and neck. It would be like for me Arena Football trying to take shots at the NFL in their current set up it would come across as very bush league. Thats how I feel when TNA makes these grand claims and then you tune in and say "are they serious?"

[Hyde Hill]

They had ten days to edit Impact and there are several scenes where they completely screwed up. When Smackdown is taped you always hear about retakes, re shoots, voice overs, edits essentially their all over that taped product to make sure any mistakes or mishaps are taken care of.

 

Yep but that is quality of production and I totally agree with you there.

 

On the hyperbole, think it was kind of wishfull thinking hoping to turn it into a self fulfilling prophecy, it could of worked but mainly do to bad booking and decision making it did not .Nitro was in a similar plot before the War and it took till the NWO angle for them to be able to go on the road and really up the production values, plus the E was not at the same level production wise as it is now.

 

They are still doing the make the change stuff but the general hyperbole has toned down somewhat and the shots towards up north have pretty much gone lately. Except the Adamle one but come on that one was good.

[cappyboy]

If TNA would just admit to being a really big indy company I'd have no problem with their setup. However they constantly tell me their right behind Vince and their doing all these great things but then I get the feel of 1980 Saturday Night WCW with the dimly lit arena and a few fans.

 

And you know, if they did that, I don't know I'd have enough respect for them as a promotion. Acting like they are right behind the E and doing all these great things is what I would expect any proper number 2 to do. Regardless of the financials or little production errors or any of that. It's part of the illusion. It's how you build your story world. If TNA acted like they were wrestling's answer to a Triple A baseball club, I'd take all the effort to watch them that I do the Norfolk Tides. Which is none. If you're talking a RoH or CHIKARA or someone like that got to the lower rungs of basic cable and started playing that Triple A type role, okay. But for better or worse, TNA is the number 2. They HAVE TO big time it in order to be worthy of that role.

 

I won't deny a little extra polish here and there would be nice. Firm up those procedures where you were saying they need to. But I'm with Comradebot about the old school vibe TNA gives off. Taking the attitude that not only that they are on WWE's heels but nipping at them with ideals the E has cast off could really help differentiate them in people's minds and be a much better move than admitting they are a walk-behinder.

[ampulator]

The problem isn't they aren't acting as the 2nd top promotion... the problem it's half-assed. Either you go all-in and professionalize, or you don't.

 

TNA feels like a big Indy company, with a 2nd-biggest promotion gloss, rather than actually being the 2nd biggest promotion.

 

It's like their crap booking nowadays that drives this impression. What they claim to be and what they are too very, very different things.

[Fleisch]

The problem is that WWE is a monster in terms of wrestling, there isn't anyone who is going to catch them up. Fans tire easily. Yes it was probably good having your Halls, Nashs and Hogans for nostalgia, and as "name value" but I'll tell you one thing, alot of the guys I know who gave TNA a chance saw Hogan and burst out laughing at how he's still trying to clutch at the limelight. They've not watched since. It has worn off quickly. Their "experiment" has failed. I grew up watching these guys when I was 8-16 I'm now 28 and really seeing these guys not even at 50% of what I rememeber them being like is crap. I loved hall when he was Razor Ramon, I even liked him at the beginning of the nWo angle, but now (although he's got himself into a little better shape) he's still only half the worker he used to be. There is room for your RVD's, your Jeff Hardys and your Ken Andersons. These guys deserve the spotlight now, along with AJ, Samoa Joe and Desmond Wolfe, but they need to lessen Hogans on scren time. Small doses and i guess I could watch it again, but for now, i'm just so tired of the crap fed to me by both TNA & WWE (hell I won't even comment on WWE anymore as I don't have a clue whats going on - other than Vince is supposedly tired with wrestling now and "has made his money").

 

I'm definately not a Mark, I'm definately not a Smark. I'm a fan with a bit of knowledge on the ins and outs but I really don't want to turn on a show named Total Nonstop Action and get Total Nonstop Hogan/Flair/Outsiders. The only way TNA have ANY chance of competing with WWE is if the stars of TODAY, not the 80's, not the 90's, jumped ship, and lets face it, can you see Cena, Orton or Batista joing TNA? No, so TNA should leave any "war" alone and just concentrate on giving the fans something different.

[mystic]

thoughts on pay per view

 

Abyss vs. Wolfe

 

I’ll go with Wolfe in this one, though I can see storylines coming off of both post match. If Abyss wins Chelsea gets to act sickened by Abyss for a little while. If Wolfe wins Chelsea gets the ring and either Hogan comes to the aid to get his ring back or Hogan turns on Abyss for losing it. I still feel that this will somehow turn into a Flair vs. Hogan battle down the road.

 

global title

Terry vs. Jordan

 

Rob Terry will win and Jordan will move on, though it would not shock me to have Jordan win this one and then have Terry win it back at a later date.

 

knockout title

Tara vs. Rayne

 

Rayne takes this and they have to move onto Rayne vs. Love as the Knockouts division is a bad shape right now.

 

Tag title match

Nash & Hall vs. Ink Inc

 

I like moore but Neil just annoys me. To keep the fans somewhat happy, Ink Inc will win by DQ, while Hall & Nash retain

 

Hardy vs. Anderson

 

Anderson wins while Hardy goes to court.

 

3 way for the #1 contender spot to the tag titles

3-D vs. Beer Money vs. M.C.M.G.

 

M.C.M.G. will win in a decent match

 

x-title

Kaz vs. Williams

 

Williams wins here, I personally like him better then Kaz

 

Sting vs. Jarret

 

It just shows you how bad these two have become when this match gets the “oh by the way treatment” Sting wins to continue the Sting vs. Jarrett vs. Hogan vs. Eric vs. Flair vs. Abyss feud

 

World title

RVD vs. Styles

 

Can’t take the title off RVD now.

 

On paper it looks decent but I just don't have high hopes for this one

[Gouge]

Eh, not liking this card at all but I'll throw in my two cents for predictions.

 

RVD over Styles. I don't agree with RVD winning the title early at all and I think it was very poor booking to something that should have been a first time dream match. Think about it, how many times has RVD vs. Styles been included on dream cards all these years? Wasted opportunity, I believe. But in any case, they may as well run with it for now. Have AJ get into a few upper-card feuds while RVD has some fresh title feuds with the likes of Mr. Anderson.

 

Sting Vs. Jarrett... I don't even know. Nor could I possibly care much. It's not that I hate Sting or Jarrett, I don't, but this feud just doesn't interest me in the least. I still think Sting is a very weak heel and I've been having a hard time taking him seriously for awhile. Jarrett, while I consider myself one of the few that actually enjoy him, has just been bland. I thought him and Foley had potential to be some sort of rebellion, tweener veteran outcasts but ever since Foley left, Jarrett's just been bland.

 

Williams vs. Kaz, I see Kaz winning. I'd love to see Williams win since I think he's one of the more interesting people on the X-Division roster and he really breathes life into it, but I think this just adds closure to the match I think Williams was supposed to lose last month anyway.

 

Tag Title match I see Ink Inc pulling an upset. I don't care who wins though as I really don't like either team. What does TNA see in Jesse Neal? Why is Shannon Moore constantly being pushed? I don't think Moore is bad, but I feel he should be putting guys over in the X-Division. Him getting all these title shots is random as heck.

 

Knockouts I see Rayne winning. Knockouts need a shot in the arm, it's getting pretty redundant now.

 

Pope runs in and costs Anderson the match. Hardy goes to King of the Mountain, Anderson takes on Pope next month.

 

Terry vs. Jordan... again, couldn't really care. Don't like either. I think Terry is extremely overrated. Not as bad as a lot of people say he is, but has no business holding the second tier title either. Then again, neither does Jordan. I see either Terry winning by DQ or Jordan doing something freaky to cause Terry to get rolled up. And then, of course, this feud to... *sigh* continue in some very gimmicky match next month. Furry handcuffs on a pole, perhaps?

 

Abyss vs. Wolfe.. *sigh*. Well obviously I'd like to see Wolfe win. But I see Abyss taking this one as well.

 

Three way tag I see Beer Money winning and moving on to feud with Ink Inc.

[TNAfan123]

Eh, not liking this card at all but I'll throw in my two cents for predictions.

 

RVD over Styles. I don't agree with RVD winning the title early at all and I think it was very poor booking to something that should have been a first time dream match. Think about it, how many times has RVD vs. Styles been included on dream cards all these years? Wasted opportunity, I believe. But in any case, they may as well run with it for now. Have AJ get into a few upper-card feuds while RVD has some fresh title feuds with the likes of Mr. Anderson.

 

Sting Vs. Jarrett... I don't even know. Nor could I possibly care much. It's not that I hate Sting or Jarrett, I don't, but this feud just doesn't interest me in the least. I still think Sting is a very weak heel and I've been having a hard time taking him seriously for awhile. Jarrett, while I consider myself one of the few that actually enjoy him, has just been bland. I thought him and Foley had potential to be some sort of rebellion, tweener veteran outcasts but ever since Foley left, Jarrett's just been bland.

 

Williams vs. Kaz, I see Kaz winning. I'd love to see Williams win since I think he's one of the more interesting people on the X-Division roster and he really breathes life into it, but I think this just adds closure to the match I think Williams was supposed to lose last month anyway.

 

Tag Title match I see Ink Inc pulling an upset. I don't care who wins though as I really don't like either team. What does TNA see in Jesse Neal? Why is Shannon Moore constantly being pushed? I don't think Moore is bad, but I feel he should be putting guys over in the X-Division. Him getting all these title shots is random as heck.

 

Knockouts I see Rayne winning. Knockouts need a shot in the arm, it's getting pretty redundant now.

 

Pope runs in and costs Anderson the match. Hardy goes to King of the Mountain, Anderson takes on Pope next month.

 

Terry vs. Jordan... again, couldn't really care. Don't like either. I think Terry is extremely overrated. Not as bad as a lot of people say he is, but has no business holding the second tier title either. Then again, neither does Jordan. I see either Terry winning by DQ or Jordan doing something freaky to cause Terry to get rolled up. And then, of course, this feud to... *sigh* continue in some very gimmicky match next month. Furry handcuffs on a pole, perhaps?

 

Abyss vs. Wolfe.. *sigh*. Well obviously I'd like to see Wolfe win. But I see Abyss taking this one as well.

 

Three way tag I see Beer Money winning and moving on to feud with Ink Inc.

 

He's more over than you think with the fans I was at a show not long ago and he got the biggest pop during a three way tag match that envoled team 3D and The gunz the crowd goes crazy for this guy live and I think there doing the right thing with his push but I dont understand Moores push although I do think INK INC. is a pretty good team

[pate]

I went to a TNA house show Thursday. I won't write much, as everything was the same as other house shows (backstage pass giveaways, autograph sessions, etc), but here's a few things that stood out to me.

 

I was already a big Nigel/Desmond Wolfe fan, but his selling made my appreciation of him go up several notches. His facial expressions were amazing.

 

LVE was even worse than I knew from TV. Once, she moved back just before getting kicked, the kick missed her face by 3 feet, and she still fell over. Awkwardly.

 

The heels (except Desmond, Beer Money, and AJ) were all mega over. It was bizarre. People were booing Jarrett (no shock there), but going nuts for Anderson.

 

Abyss got very little of a reaction, which was expected based on his vote totals in the ranking system. Right now, I'd say the most over faces other than Hardy and RVD were Ink Inc. Yes, really.

[LoganRodzen]

I went to a TNA house show Thursday. I won't write much, as everything was the same as other house shows (backstage pass giveaways, autograph sessions, etc), but here's a few things that stood out to me.

 

I was already a big Nigel/Desmond Wolfe fan, but his selling made my appreciation of him go up several notches. His facial expressions were amazing.

 

LVE was even worse than I knew from TV. Once, she moved back just before getting kicked, the kick missed her face by 3 feet, and she still fell over. Awkwardly.

 

The heels (except Desmond, Beer Money, and AJ) were all mega over. It was bizarre. People were booing Jarrett (no shock there), but going nuts for Anderson.

 

Abyss got very little of a reaction, which was expected based on his vote totals in the ranking system. Right now, I'd say the most over faces other than Hardy and RVD were Ink Inc. Yes, really.

 

I went to a house show here in Maine in December and Abyss got a really dull reaction from the crowd. My older brother who hadn't been to wrestling in years (neither had I) but had watched and gone to events the entire time growing up - his exact words about Abyss after seeing his match, "he's nothing more than a glorified jobber." It was disappointing that he said that because I like Abyss... or at least I like the idea of Abyss. Thinking about it some more he's probably right because seeing his matches he does have some serious weak spots.

 

Best thing TNA has going for them at their house shows are doing the pictures in the ring after the show. They're making some serious cash because at least 50% of the people at every show will do it. I remember back when I saw an indy fed as a kid and getting in the ring for a pic with Tito Santana was like $5 and TNA is charging like $20 if I heard them correctly when I was there.

 

It was the first time TNA came to Maine and it was cool to see the six-sided ring for the first and last time before they made the switch. Beer Money were babyfaces at the time when they came here and they got the biggest pop. If I remember correctly it was better than Angle's pop. I guess that just tells you where our priorities are up here in the Northeast.