The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[LoganRodzen]

Did... did I say Roode? Shoot. I meant Storm. The reason being that for whatever sick reason I really want Roode to get a push. I can never remember which is which though, so I guessed wrong this time.

 

I never really liked LAX, and they're not doing anything with either of them, so I figure...

 

I get where you're coming from with Roode. He has the look of a breakout singles star. And however much I like Beer Money it will never replace what I felt for AMW. Storm and Harris were awesome together.

[Hyde Hill]

I fear Desmond Wolfe would get cut since he's just the JOB guy now anyway. I don't even think he's won a ppv match since Hogan and Bisch took over.

 

Thats about the only one I fear would be released I'm not saying he would be but its the one guy I don't want released.

 

I think half the Knockouts will wind up leaving. Whats ODB doing is she injured?

 

Kendrick is only valuable as a team with London and since London is having too much fun being crazy in PWG I don't see that happening.

 

Doug Williams could go he's alright but theres no upside. He's older, he's not local, he's not got anything to market. Solid worker but TNA has plenty of those to go around.

 

Obviously about 30 other guys could go as well.

 

Yes he does he is a Brit and that is TNA's second biggest market plus because of his technical skills smarks like him.

[Hyde Hill]

Did... did I say Roode? Shoot. I meant Storm. The reason being that for whatever sick reason I really want Roode to get a push. I can never remember which is which though, so I guessed wrong this time.

 

I never really liked LAX, and they're not doing anything with either of them, so I figure...

 

Beer Money is bank and you do not need to release Storm for Roode to get a singles push. Plus LAX appeals to the Latino market. So I would never release those guys without adequate replacement.

[Linsolv]

The Latino market? I don't think they watch TNA any more. Pretty much, the first time Cody Deaner shows up with his 'hyuck hyuck I'm a redneck" gimmick, the Latino market books it. Or maybe that's JUST the black market. I don't know for sure.

 

I think TNA has a big problem with not knowing who in the hell they're trying to market to.

 

EDIT:

 

This might be a bit racially touchy, but I really am trying to be objective here.

 

Is the Latino market all that big, really? I was under the impression that the wrestling market was 80+% white male.

[Stennick]

Yes he does he is a Brit and that is TNA's second biggest market plus because of his technical skills smarks like him.

 

Being from TNA's second biggest market which is sort of by default since they don't do much of anything I Canada or anywhere else. Being TNA's second biggest market means they air their television shows a few days later over there and tour there every three months or so. Its not like the British market for TNA is so strong that they can't afford to release some British star who turns 38 this year.

 

He's great from a technical standpoint but honestly if they can't find somebody closer to home like say oh Ric Flair or any other number of overpriced vets they've brought in to help these guys out then their in worse trouble than I thought.

 

Doug's not near as built as he used to be, he's got average charisma, he's turning 38 and doesn't sell a single t shirt in fact he doesn't even have a t shirt to sell.

 

If TNA is worried about getting some Brits on their show they got Terry and Wolfe both are in higher positions in the card than Williams the way it is.

 

I like Doug but he's not even close to marketable. Good yes, experianced yes, but not marketable.

[Stennick]

The Latino market? I don't think they watch TNA any more. Pretty much, the first time Cody Deaner shows up with his 'hyuck hyuck I'm a redneck" gimmick, the Latino market books it. Or maybe that's JUST the black market. I don't know for sure.

 

I think TNA has a big problem with not knowing who in the hell they're trying to market to.

 

EDIT:

 

This might be a bit racially touchy, but I really am trying to be objective here.

 

Is the Latino market all that big, really? I was under the impression that the wrestling market was 80+% white male.

 

The Latino market can be HUGE. Wrestling and futball are religion in the latin countries especially Mexico. There is a reason that the WWE put Batista, Mysterio, Melina and other latinos were all on smackdown for quite a while. The Latino market was single handedly pushing that show in the ratings.

 

You'd think the pro wrestling market is 80 percent white males but I'd be shocked if it was 75% white males.

[Slagaholic]

Why do you guys all hate Jesse Neal? He's not business-exposingly bad and he's one of the few guys TNA has that's gotten over completely due to their work in TNA. I don't see TNA dropping him.

[Linsolv]

I don't like him mostly because of his look. It was okay when he was first debuting, but now that I'm back and I see him in his glam-rock Hot Topic makeup, I have a really hard time taking him seriously.

[The Celt]

The Latino market can be HUGE. Wrestling and futball are religion in the latin countries especially Mexico. There is a reason that the WWE put Batista, Mysterio, Melina and other latinos were all on smackdown for quite a while. The Latino market was single handedly pushing that show in the ratings.

 

You'd think the pro wrestling market is 80 percent white males but I'd be shocked if it was 75% white males.

 

Some consider the WWE 40% female, going on the fact that 40% of accounts on that WWEuniverse thing are marked female.

[Stennick]

Yeah pro wrestling isn't the same as it once was. I know a ton of females that watch pro wrestling.

[Linsolv]

/shrug

 

Shows what I know.

[ampulator]

Yeah pro wrestling isn't the same as it once was. I know a ton of females that watch pro wrestling.

Actually, you aren't wrong, but not exactly correct. Jim Cornette once said there used to be even MORE women watching wrestling. He and the Midnight Express once had to run away from females fans because they had "beat up" Ricky Morton.

 

He claims they left mostly because the product became male-dominated and overly sexualized during the early 90's up to the late 90's.

 

If I think about it, he's not wrong. I mean, guys like Ric Flair and Ricky Steamboat used to have tons of female fans. Even Dusty Rhodes did, despite his, well, size. Hell some women like TJ Magnum's moustache look, I heard.

 

Hell, even during the Attitude Era, Val Venis was a sex symbol that was also a sexist symbol. But he had a LOT of female fans despite what he represented.

[PeterHilton]

Actually, you aren't wrong, but not exactly correct. Jim Cornette once said there used to be even MORE women watching wrestling. He and the Midnight Express once had to run away from females fans because they had "beat up" Ricky Morton.

 

He claims they left mostly because the product became male-dominated and overly sexualized during the early 90's up to the late 90's.

 

If I think about it, he's not wrong. I mean, guys like Ric Flair and Ricky Steamboat used to have tons of female fans. Even Dusty Rhodes did, despite his, well, size. Hell some women like TJ Magnum's moustache look, I heard.

 

Hell, even during the Attitude Era, Val Venis was a sex symbol that was also a sexist symbol. But he had a LOT of female fans despite what he represented.

 

So based on some anecdotal evidence from one promoter/manager with a penchant for hyperbole...we're gonna go ahead and throw out 30 plus years of marketing research and Nielsen ratings?

 

Hey..and we can also ignore all previous hard information based on the membership figures of an internet message board like the WWE universe (because we know how infallible the intrawebs can be) ...

 

 

C'mon people..get it together. The business might be shifting as far as who it's marketed to and who is paying money for the product (especially with the E marketing itself as family entertainment) but do you guys honestly believe that the figure is anywhere near 40%? Really? REALLY???

[PeterHilton]

I mean..seriously?

 

The E draws like 8 k to its shows..which means that 3200 or so of that crowd is female?

 

Why are single guys going out to bars and night clubs? They should all be attending pro wrestling events. The guys there must be literally fighting the women off with ten foot poles.

 

[ampulator]

So based on some anecdotal evidence from one promoter/manager with a penchant for hyperbole...we're gonna go ahead and throw out 30 plus years of marketing research and Nielsen ratings?

 

Hey..and we can also ignore all previous hard information based on the membership figures of an internet message board like the WWE universe (because we know how infallible the intrawebs can be) ...

 

 

C'mon people..get it together. The business might be shifting as far as who it's marketed to and who is paying money for the product (especially with the E marketing itself as family entertainment) but do you guys honestly believe that the figure is anywhere near 40%? Really? REALLY???

Actually, anecdotal evidence is better than you think... but Jim Cornette wasn't on hyperbole when he said this. You can tell. He goes into that "mode" and screams, and rants... not when he said this.

 

It was like the tell he said that Kenny Bolin kicked his own mother out of the house... and told her through e-mail. And Bolin admitted it. That was one of the funniest things I ever heard, in a dark way.

 

 

That being said, I think females fans are definitely around 10%, if you include all-female promotions.

[lazorbeak]

I mean..seriously?

 

The E draws like 8 k to its shows..which means that 3200 or so of that crowd is female?

 

Why are single guys going out to bars and night clubs? They should all be attending pro wrestling events. The guys there must be literally fighting the women off with ten foot poles.

 

 

I don't know if you've satisfactorily made your point.

 

Needs more

 

:rolleyes:

 

Also even in a hypothetical how does outnumbering women 2:1 mean women are fighting over men? Are you not familiar with the concept of dragging your girlfriend to a sporting event? This may shock you but just over 50% of the population is female. Surprisingly, this doesn't result in men fighting women off at the grocery store.

[PeterHilton]

Actually, anecdotal evidence is better than you think... but Jim Cornette wasn't on hyperbole when he said this. You can tell. He goes into that "mode" and screams, and rants... not when he said this.

 

 

A bunch of good looking guys fighting off some ring rats back in the 80s does not prove that anything near 40% of the wrestling audience is/was/or ever will be female.

 

I like Jim too. But 30 years of marketing research, Nielsen ratings, advertising dollars, ticket sales, PPV buys, and merchandise sales all say he's wrong.

 

Think about it...the E gets around 3 million viewers a week. So if even close to that portion of the audience of the female, there'd be over 1 million women watching RAW each week. You don't think some advertisers or sponsors would've noticed by now? The shows on Lifetime barely draw that kind of audience.

 

Half of RAW's commercials would be stuff like Proactiv or Maybelline.

 

I believe the female portion of the audience is growing..but jesus christ...

[PeterHilton]

Also even in a hypothetical how does outnumbering women 2:1 mean women are fighting over men? Are you not familiar with the concept of dragging your girlfriend to a sporting event? This may shock you but just over 50% of the population is female. Surprisingly, this doesn't result in men fighting women off at the grocery store.

 

Hyperbole.

 

My point still stands..if you could go to an event where half the audience was female, that event would be quite a draw for men looking to meet women

 

Also...the fact that 50% of the population being female does not directly correlate to 50% of the crowd being female at many other events, such as football, baseball, boxing, etc.

[lazorbeak]

 

A bunch of good looking guys fighting off some ring rats back in the 80s does not prove that anything near 40% of the wrestling audience is/was/or ever will be female.

 

I like Jim too. But 30 years of marketing research, Nielsen ratings, advertising dollars, ticket sales, PPV buys, and merchandise sales all say he's wrong.

 

Think about it...the E gets around 3 million viewers a week. So if even close to that portion of the audience of the female, there'd be over 1 million women watching RAW each week. You don't think some advertisers or sponsors would've noticed by now? The shows on Lifetime barely draw that kind of audience.

 

Half of RAW's commercials would be stuff like Proactiv or Maybelline.

 

I believe the female portion of the audience is growing..but jesus christ...

 

Where are you getting this made up wealth of information?

 

A quick search on WWE's ad sales reveals:

 

61% of audience is male (39% of audience is therefore female). Seriously I don't see where the disconnect here is. 2/5 /= 1/2, and is not at all unusual for a sporting event. That doesn't mean that there are groups of single women at WWE events or tampon commercials during WWE programming, because 40% is still a minority audience. And this is based on Nielsen research, so there you go.

 

Seriously it's as dumb as arguing that WWE advertising should be selling nothing but tacos because 33% of their demographic is non-white and the biggest portion of that is Latino.

[ampulator]

A bunch of good looking guys fighting off some ring rats back in the 80s does not prove that anything near 40% of the wrestling audience is/was/or ever will be female.

Actually I NEVER CLAIMED it was 40%. That's someone else. Not me. So, you use the "rolleyes" emoticon someone else that said that.

[Hyde Hill]

Being from TNA's second biggest market which is sort of by default since they don't do much of anything I Canada or anywhere else. Being TNA's second biggest market means they air their television shows a few days later over there and tour there every three months or so. Its not like the British market for TNA is so strong that they can't afford to release some British star who turns 38 this year.

 

He's great from a technical standpoint but honestly if they can't find somebody closer to home like say oh Ric Flair or any other number of overpriced vets they've brought in to help these guys out then their in worse trouble than I thought.

 

Doug's not near as built as he used to be, he's got average charisma, he's turning 38 and doesn't sell a single t shirt in fact he doesn't even have a t shirt to sell.

 

If TNA is worried about getting some Brits on their show they got Terry and Wolfe both are in higher positions in the card than Williams the way it is.

 

I like Doug but he's not even close to marketable. Good yes, experianced yes, but not marketable.

 

he British Invasion T-Shirt when they where still active lolz. 8k at a house show in the UK which is a record attendance, television rights fees, high viewer-ship in the UK which makes it easier to sell overseas like their recent Middle East deal. TNA also airs in many other countries like Australia and India. TNA does quite well internationally do not underestimate the income that generates and the importance of it.

 

All international viewing figures are up for instance with the Hogan era, merchandise sales are up, ppv buys are up, house show attendance is up, international distribution is up. Everything is up except the US ratings, is it as up as could have been hoped? No. Is the US rating figure the only thing that matters? Hell no.

[Stennick]

Its not the only one that matters but my point is that the international money is just a small fraction of what their making. I wasn't saying they don't broadcast internationally but the fact that they should keep a guy on and that you thought he was marketable because he was a Brit is pretty laughable. Should they not release any Japanese people for fear the Asian fans will turn the channel off.

 

Doug is a good wrestler but he's 38, he's not near the worker he was and he doesn't bring anything to the table other than a good wrestling match. They have 15 guys in the back from Homicide, to Kendrick, Motor City Machine Guns, Kaz, etc. that can serve the same purpose Doug Williams served. The guy has average charisma and nothing else special about him.

 

Doug's average on the mic and above average in the ring but again if their cutting people he should be on the list. They have 20 guys in the back that can do exactly what Doug does (provide a good match and draw good heel heat) and their ten years younger than him.

 

I realized TNA is "worldwide" I don't have their international stats in front of me but I'd be shocked if at the LEAST 80% of their income came from North America and primarily the U.S. The reason TNA can pack 8K into a show and they don't do it all the time even is because the UK's wrestling scene is pretty baron so when they get a chance to go see good wrestling from guys they watch on television why wouldn't they go.

 

The point is Doug Williams is not marketable and being a good technition and a Brit doesn't keep you employed especially not when Desmond Wolfe is on the roster and does everything you described AND has about 10x more charisma. Nobody is going to say "you know he's marketable because he's British we should keep him around". It doesn't matter if your British, Asian, American, their going to say "this guy has a ton of charisma, a great look, he's young, he's marketable".

 

I like Doug but he's pushing 40 and should appear on anyone's cut list for the simple fact that he's not so vastly superior in the ring that they can't afford to lose his knowledge. They have Ric Flair, Kurt Angle, plenty of guys to learn things from who have accomplished just as much or more so being a British mid card technician is not marketable.

[Hyde Hill]

Yes he is old etc but at the moment he does stand out from the pack and the fact that he is British does ad to his lustre. Is that enough to keep him around? That is a different question. I do think TNA's income is more international then 80 but since TNA never releases hard figures we won't know. And as far as I know they do not have a TV deal in Japan so Japanese workers do not get that bonus. Also Doug was brought in before Wolf so yes now that they have Wolf Doug has lost some bonus so to speak.

 

Was just countering the statement that he was totally unmarketable etc which is not the case. Is he very marketable? Nope but that is never the case in any company and I liked the British Invasion tag team and what Doug is adding to the X Division at this time.

[ampulator]

Actually, from a financial standpoint, cutting Doug Williams isn't a bad idea. You usually have to pay for foreign talent more, just to cover their travel costs, AND to make it there worthwhile.

 

Now, I don't think his UN-marketable, but that's beside the point. If TNA needs to make cuts, it will probably cut foreign talent first (or at least, it should).

[cappyboy]

Wish I could disagree with the notion of cutting Doug Williams because I like the guy. I really do. But look what's happened with him since Bound For Glory. World Elite has melted into goo like Margaret Hamilton in The Wizard of Oz for no real apparent reason. The dissolution of the British Invasion was rushed. His theft of Rob Terry's X Division title shot never got proper closure. And then there's the little matter of his being stripped of the X Division title because of the travel snarls created by Mt. I'm Not Even Going To Try And Spell It in Iceland. With as little regard as he and his storylines have gotten since BFG, it almost seems like they'd be doing Williams a favor to cut him at this point.