The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah not disagreeing on that but in the Sun interview where he said the Reid bit he also clarified that it was about the fact that he was allowed to cut promo's freely. So he is probably enjoying being a performer more at this point but he is not disrespecting his time in the E etc. Listen to the Sun interview and you get my point.

 

Still Reid Flair *Groan* He should form an alliance with Lacey, Genetics is BS stable. Lolz.

[justtxyank]

It is

 

But the E trated him like a god. There's an entire wave of wrestling fans that have been programmed to think Ric was the greatest performer to work in the business. And maybe he was. But considering his 'prime' was over 20 years ago, he should be thanking the wrestling gods that the E gave him the 'legend' treatment since he came back because that's the reason he's even remotely relevant today.

 

Agree with this. The majority of wrestling fans today have no knowledge of Ric Flair when he was good. Hell, his last "good" run was in like 1998 as an in ring performer and most of those fans don't watch anymore. I'm with Hilton on this. The way the E handled Flair is the reason he is still relevant at all today. Harley Race wasn't getting pops in the 90s when he would make appearances. Flair's legacy was handled very well by the E and he should be thanking his lucky stars for that. He could have been treated the way the companies treated the rest of the 80s stars like Rick Martel, Bobby Eaton, Jim Duggan, etc. and just turn them into jobbers.

[PeterHilton]

It's also ironic that he's soooo happy now considering the primary reason he was so miserable for a good chunk of those years between 86 and now was the way he was treated in WCW by Eric and Hogan.

[The Final Countdown]

It's also ironic that he's soooo happy now considering the primary reason he was so miserable for a good chunk of those years between 86 and now was the way he was treated in WCW by Eric and Hogan.

Not to mention the shots he took at TNA when he was still with WWE.

[Stennick]

Not to rag on Ric because I do like the guy as a performer. But after reading his book, and hearing his comments, the grudges he holds against people, and just the general (donkey) that he's became over the last ten years.

 

For a guy that had spent one year of his entire wrestling career in the E before WCW's demise he was treated amazingly well.

 

I had really hoped Ric would fade off into the sunset a long time ago and especially after his match against HBK. I thought the stuff he was doing in ROH was fantastic as far as that side of his career went.

 

All that being said and as much as I love Ric Flair's career and I think in a lot of ways nobody has influenced this entire generation of wreslters more so than Ric Flair. Ric Flar was the celeberity athlete that T.O, Beckham, etc is today. He wore name brand clothing, he was a fan of the ladies, he was consntatly bragging on himself. He was what the E tried to do with MVP 25 years before they did it with MVP and for that he's a visionary even if it was just Ric. Other guys were bar fighting, coke heads but they didn't transition that into their on screen character at the time.....well not purposley at least.

 

All that being said I'll never forget Ric in the Monday Night Wars DVD saying the day WCW closed down was the happiest day of his life. For better or worse that company MADE him a star and despite problems it kept him a star until their very last show. Without WCW there would be no Ric Flair.

 

His problems with Bischoff and his mocking of their refusal to push new stars, etc, the creative problems, he tore down Russo in those interviews, he even tore down HOgan on severla occasions. I get business is business and Ric's broke but for him to say the things he's said about Hogan, Bischoff, WCW and Russo only to turn right back around and work with those same guys in the same goofy stories WCW was telling is the ultimate hypcorital thing to do.

 

Either that or Ric's just showing that he's the ultimate company man. That promo he cut on the last night of WCW was one of the greatest promos I've ever seen in my life. He went to the E and then talked about how they were the driving force and Vince was a genious, now he's in TNA and he's having more fun than ever before.

 

You hear it all the time that pro wrestling is a business based on lying and everything we see in front of or behind the camera is a lie to some extent or another. YOu know their business is lying, their pro con men and even in an era where "kayfabe" is supposed to be dead you see people working their marks every day of the week.

 

Hogan gets blased for Andre being 700 pounds and dying the day after WM III. Or how he kept telling WCW how Vince and the WWF did business but they wouldn't listen. Or how WCW was a two bit company drawing nobody before he came along. He gets killed in the IWC for saying those things but yet nobody calls Ric out for all the exaggerations and lies he's told over the last ten years. Nobody ever calls Ric out for rewriting his own history so many different times. He must be doing something right those because even after all of these recent comments he'll still be praised while Hogan's torn down for virtually the same comments and actions.

[BHK1978]

In regards to Ric, I guess it is just a case of not wanting to bite the hand that feeds him.

 

To be honest I was always shocked that Vince treated him as good as he did. Seeing how Ric along with Sting were the faces of the NWA/WCW.

[Hyde Hill]

Any word on the rating yet?

[Stennick]

I don't know the rating but they averaged 1.34 million viewers and thats up from 1.29 million viewers last week so I'd imagine the rating is virtually the same.

[tristram]

Oh, Ric.

 

I get that it's his job to pimp TNA, but do he have to take a dump on his entire career since the mid 80s? Evolution? WM against Undertaker? The match with HBK that mightve been the best send off ever?

 

Ah well...

 

I would say it'd have to be all PR. There's no way known to man that Ric Flair could logically say that, is there? I mean, after all, after a taping he cried in the middle of the ring when the entire roster came out to support him, led by Triple H. He said at the time that he had learned to like himself again, all because of the support of the WWE. It's practically the substance of his book in terms of how bad he felt about himself because of how he was booked and 'victimised' in WCW, compared to how great things were and how much respect he had in the WWE locker room.

 

I would have to hope that there's some very liberal creative license in bending the truth to make a story here.

[tristram]

Not to rag on Ric because I do like the guy as a performer. But after reading his book, and hearing his comments, the grudges he holds against people, and just the general (donkey) that he's became over the last ten years.

 

For a guy that had spent one year of his entire wrestling career in the E before WCW's demise he was treated amazingly well.

 

I had really hoped Ric would fade off into the sunset a long time ago and especially after his match against HBK. I thought the stuff he was doing in ROH was fantastic as far as that side of his career went.

 

All that being said and as much as I love Ric Flair's career and I think in a lot of ways nobody has influenced this entire generation of wreslters more so than Ric Flair. Ric Flar was the celeberity athlete that T.O, Beckham, etc is today. He wore name brand clothing, he was a fan of the ladies, he was consntatly bragging on himself. He was what the E tried to do with MVP 25 years before they did it with MVP and for that he's a visionary even if it was just Ric. Other guys were bar fighting, coke heads but they didn't transition that into their on screen character at the time.....well not purposley at least.

 

All that being said I'll never forget Ric in the Monday Night Wars DVD saying the day WCW closed down was the happiest day of his life. For better or worse that company MADE him a star and despite problems it kept him a star until their very last show. Without WCW there would be no Ric Flair.

 

His problems with Bischoff and his mocking of their refusal to push new stars, etc, the creative problems, he tore down Russo in those interviews, he even tore down HOgan on severla occasions. I get business is business and Ric's broke but for him to say the things he's said about Hogan, Bischoff, WCW and Russo only to turn right back around and work with those same guys in the same goofy stories WCW was telling is the ultimate hypcorital thing to do.

 

Either that or Ric's just showing that he's the ultimate company man. That promo he cut on the last night of WCW was one of the greatest promos I've ever seen in my life. He went to the E and then talked about how they were the driving force and Vince was a genious, now he's in TNA and he's having more fun than ever before.

 

You hear it all the time that pro wrestling is a business based on lying and everything we see in front of or behind the camera is a lie to some extent or another. YOu know their business is lying, their pro con men and even in an era where "kayfabe" is supposed to be dead you see people working their marks every day of the week.

 

Hogan gets blased for Andre being 700 pounds and dying the day after WM III. Or how he kept telling WCW how Vince and the WWF did business but they wouldn't listen. Or how WCW was a two bit company drawing nobody before he came along. He gets killed in the IWC for saying those things but yet nobody calls Ric out for all the exaggerations and lies he's told over the last ten years. Nobody ever calls Ric out for rewriting his own history so many different times. He must be doing something right those because even after all of these recent comments he'll still be praised while Hogan's torn down for virtually the same comments and actions.

 

I think you've hit the nail on the head. A very liberal use of professional wrestling ;take a slice of the truth and make it into a story' license. Sadly, though, the third time he's done it kind of waters down what you can and can't believe is genuine, and you perhaps wonder whether Ric knows how to separate the on-camera Ric Flair to the real-deal Ric Flair due to the web of stories offered.

[Hyde Hill]

On a completely different topic I was just musing on some possible changes for the Impact Zone and wanted you guys opinions on possibly replacing the guardrails with electronic advertisement boards. It is quite commonplace in Europe with soccer matches and I know the NBA uses them as well as triple A in Mexico who mainly uses standard ones though, plus you could use them to enhance entrances and then turn them back to ad's during other time.

 

If you strengthen them with padding behind them much as the WWE uses I do not think they would limit workers possibilities outside the ring and possibly even enhance them by walking the top or endanger their safety.

 

It would mean a possible extra source of income for TNA, make it look more professional, they can advertise their own stuff on it, use it to enhance entrances etc.

 

So what are you guys thoughts?

[The Celt]

They're used in football stadiums true, but because the hard camera is normally well zoomed out they visually would normally only take up about 1/25 of the screen when you see them on TV. Having them on barricades would be different, they'd be way closer those take up way more of the screen and would be quite distracting for the viewer. Americans have enough advertising as it is (seriously, in Ireland and the UK at least we go to break 80% less than you, and that completely true. Trying to watch TV in America can be so annoying knowing back home you get so much more bang for your buck).

[Hyde Hill]

Hehe yeah I remember from the times I was in the US how ridiculously often they go to commercial.

[sebsplex]

On a completely different topic I was just musing on some possible changes for the Impact Zone and wanted you guys opinions on possibly replacing the guardrails with electronic advertisement boards. It is quite commonplace in Europe with soccer matches and I know the NBA uses them as well as triple A in Mexico who mainly uses standard ones though, plus you could use them to enhance entrances and then turn them back to ad's during other time.

 

If you strengthen them with padding behind them much as the WWE uses I do not think they would limit workers possibilities outside the ring and possibly even enhance them by walking the top or endanger their safety.

 

It would mean a possible extra source of income for TNA, make it look more professional, they can advertise their own stuff on it, use it to enhance entrances etc.

 

So what are you guys thoughts?

 

I think it would be a little too intense and imposing for the viewer to have them so close to the ring... not to mention they'd be obscured for the most part by the ring itself (unlike pitch and courtside boards). As for the safety aspect of it, since reverting back to the four-sided ring, the railings seem too close now and those dives and bodypresses to the outside are looking more dangerous and awkward as it is, so maybe something with a bit of extra give or padding isn't a bad idea.

 

If TNA need some extra revenue, perhaps they'll go back to allowing sponsorship on the ringmat itself again or use something around the stage or perhaps even the large 'TNA' display that hangs in the background.

 

Speaking of changes to the Impact Zone, although it's subtle and I'm not quite sure what they've changed, I like the fact that their seems more steel or mesh fencing in the stands in the past couple of weeks. It makes it look a less like an old Nickelodeon set in the distance.

[ampulator]

Stennick, I need to disagree with you on Ric Flair when it came to comments on WCW. It's more correct to say NWA's WCW made Flair, not the one that Turner bought out.

 

You ever watch the 90's, especially the late 90's? Even as an Attitude Era fan, I can honestly say that the 90's and, WCW during that time, by extension, treated Ric Flair like a turd on the bottom of their shoe.

 

They had NO CLUE what to do with him during the late 90's. When Hogan came to WCW, it forced Flair to becomea second-rank player. And when the NWO came along, it was even worse for him.

 

Ric Flair has a lot of built-up resentment for what happened during the 90's. It's why he disses Hogan, Savage, and Bischoff. He wrongly disses Bret Hart for this reason too, I believe.

[Stennick]

I agree with you that LATE ninties Flair was treated like crap. Although Flair jobbed to Hogan constantly he was still main evented and presented as Hogan's arch nemesis until late 95ish and then Hogan left shortly after 96 started. So yeah the last four years of the 90's Flair was crapped on I agree.

 

However 90-94 (when he was in the company) Flair was still presented as the man. His feud with Sting MADE Sting and that was under the WCW banner (mostly). You had the entire Sting arc from Clash all the way through the Horsemen turn. You had Flair returning in 93 and beating Vader for the title. You had 1994 and the huge Sting swerve that reformed the Horseman.

 

So while he wasn't the man that he was in the 80's he was still the focus of the show and up until the very last episode of Nitro Ric Flair was given TONS of face time and always paraded as the father of WCW (for lack of a better term).

 

So I agree that he was jobbed to Hogan a bunch and put into silly storylines the truth of the matter is he still had some huge moments even after Hogan came in. WCW didn't make Flair but they sure as heck continued his legacy.

 

As far as him lashing out at Hogan, Bisch, etc. (I've not heard him say anything about Savage). He is now turning around and having these guys as his boss. I understand business is business but he comes across as a hypocrite wanting to fight Bischoff in the WWE and dragging his name through the mud and mocking Hogan as one of the greats only to talk about how great TNA is when their storylines are just as (if not more) stupid than WCW's were.

 

So yeah he's still a hypocrite and business is business I get that but you know what nobody is asking him to verbally (breathe out) Hogan and Bischoff. He does that willingly and thats just one of the reasons why Ric Flair the person will never be the guy I thought he was ten years ago. He's not losing sleep over it and neither am I so its all good.

[ampulator]

Well, Ric Flair needs the money. Have you heard about his financial situation? Granted, it's his own fault, but he needs the money badly. This is one of the reasons why I haven't dissed him or Hogan as much as anyone think I might for bringing back them when they are past their prime. They are actually in financially bad situations. Yes, of their own faults. But, hey, they got to do what they got to do to make their living.

 

Eric Bischoff, and Vince russo... on the other hand... ARGH!!!!!!

[alden]

if you listen to some of the fliar interviews he said he always lost and that is how it should have been. The heel needs to loose. The good guy always beat flair in the end. How many times was flair champion? 17 18? that means he lost it that many times also .........how many times was hogan champion? 3 or 4 in wwe and 3 or 4 in wcw.......because the man never wanted to get beat.

[ampulator]

Alden, you are completely, probably unintentionally, missing the point here. It wasn't the fact that Ric Flair lost. It was that he was treated LIKE CRAP during the late 90's. It's one thing to lose, and it's another to to be made to look like a fool. Flair lost a lot of times in his career, he but he never looked weak, until the late 90's.

 

For all the times Ric Flair lost the belt, he still won it back. I have to ask you, what is THE signature babyface of the NWA? I mean, SIGNATURE like Hogan? None. They tried. But they couldn't find one. Sting was a pretty big star, but the height of Sting's career is actually Crow Sting. Magnum TA? Cut short by a car accident. Dusty Rhodes? Close, but not quite. Ricky Steamboat? Great in-ring worker and performer, not so good on the mic. People always Ric Flair. It was he was the top star in the 80's and early 90's.

 

But since Hogan entered WCW, Hogan almost always beat him. Now, as a face, that made some sense. But Hogan as heel? Really? REALLY? Hogan was STILL beating the crap out of him. What a way to make one of the top stars to look like nothing.

 

When Ric Flair said he was glad it was over, party is because it's how we was treated in the end. He made a lot of money, definitely, but his career, at that point, was in shambles.

 

To put this in perspective, his career is STRONGER now, even though he is/was retired, than it was near the end of the days of WCW, when he had a gimmick as a "psychopath".

[Comradebot]

if you listen to some of the fliar interviews he said he always lost and that is how it should have been. The heel needs to loose. The good guy always beat flair in the end. How many times was flair champion? 17 18? that means he lost it that many times also .........how many times was hogan champion? 3 or 4 in wwe and 3 or 4 in wcw.......because the man never wanted to get beat.

 

Admittingly, it did make Hogan being defeated all the more epic. With Flair... yeah, you managed to overcome the guy who frequently needed to cheat to win. Clearly, Flair was booked to always need that "fall back" plan in order to overcome folks who were superior otherwise.

 

But with Hogan? He was damn near a superhero! If he had 17 title wins, it'd mean he lost that many times, and it would've tarnished his aura. Sure, Hogan most certainly didn't mind not losing all that often, but at the same time it was excellent long term booking, and NOT just because of Hogan's ego.

[ampulator]

I don't think anyone really complains much about Hogan's long title reigns, except after the 80's, when it became clear those long title reingns for Hogan made little to no sense anymore.

[Hyde Hill]

To finish off this week, let this reporter state that the Journal does not usually address unfounded rumors. If you are looking for gossip and unnamed sources that can never be confirmed, the Small-For-All News Report is an excellent choice. Guest#0754 brings up the Journal's viewpoint:

 

In this day of Twitter and Facebook as well as lawyers, I believe that if people were paid a month late we would be hearing about it from more than just un-named sources.

 

There would also be no-shows and people double booked.

 

Not just in this day and age--when Paul Heyman stopped paying talent in the late 1990's, many were vocal about it such as Mike Awesome and RVD. Also, let us not forget that many TNA talent have just a pay-per-appearance deal with no or very low guaranteed bases. With that, talent costs can be greatly reduced just by not flying people in.

 

This most likely stems from two things. One, people want to believe TNA is having money issues because of the moves to iMPACT and the mass hirings. Unfortunately, that does not take into account the extra revenue that TNA has made in merchandise sales, the higher distribution deals they have overseas, the addition of new revenue from new programming (ReAction). Two, there were rumors similar to this as recently as October 2009. Like any good internet rumor, the story works its way around and comes up again and again.

 

Now, TNA is hardly in the financially secure position the WWE is in. That said, cash in should still be outpacing talent costs. TNA does need to watch their expenses much better and control growth, but they have yet to show they have learned any lesson in slow expansion. They were slightly profitable a year ago, so they should still be today if they have kept some things in check. That said, in a worst case scenario they do still have parent company Panda Energy that can provide a one-time cash infusion or loan.

 

Source Hamilton avenue Journal 411 mania. com. Gotta love the Journal for separating fact from fiction/rumour/perception.

 

BTW non TNA related LA Park aka La Parka in WCW punching out that fan is hilarious.

[ampulator]

They problem isn't just revenue, but also cost. As Bill Behren as said, the way to REALLY cut costs is to cut from top-down, not bottom-up. Because People at the bottom aren't paid that much or used that much anyway, cutting or even simply not using them won't make that much savings, if any at all.

 

It's really having guys like Hogan, RVD, Jeff Hardy, Ric Flair, Eric Bischoff, Kurt Angle, Sting, Nash, and Hall that costs them money.

 

Although I disagree with Bill Behrens on this, he believes, unless they demonstrate the ability to draw or increase ratings without a serious drop-off within a short period of time, they should stop using them or cut them. I don't agree with him, but he does have a point.

[Hyde Hill]

They problem isn't just revenue, but also cost. As Bill Behren as said, the way to REALLY cut costs is to cut from top-down, not bottom-up. Because People at the bottom aren't paid that much or used that much anyway, cutting or even simply not using them won't make that much savings, if any at all.

 

It's really having guys like Hogan, RVD, Jeff Hardy, Ric Flair, Eric Bischoff, Kurt Angle, Sting, Nash, and Hall that costs them money.

 

Although I disagree with Bill Behrens on this, he believes, unless they demonstrate the ability to draw or increase ratings without a serious drop-off within a short period of time, they should stop using them or cut them. I don't agree with him, but he does have a point.

 

Yeah Behren's is pretty good although he can be over ratings focused and does not take some stuff into account when talking average ratings etc. He generally has a good view on the business.

 

On this I agree with him in part. Mainly that those nostalgia guys that do not bring in ratings and or merchandise are superfluous and should be looked at to being cut. Sting, Hogan and Foley do bring in fans and sell merch. The Band and Jarrett not so much.

 

Guys that can still go and are proven draws like RVD and Hardy should not be cut. As it is more TNA's overall fault they are not drawing then theirs.

[Slagaholic]

I kind of like the position The Band is in right now. They're not doing too much other than holding the tag titles while the tag team division fights each other. They cut a 3 minute promo every other week, and have Eric Young do most of the wrestling. They're just there to get heat. I doubt it's cost effective, but this is the best they can do for what they're paying Nash. I doubt Hall and Young are getting big money.