The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Hyde Hill]

They finished the tape before Spike made the decision apparently they didn't think to edit it.

[Jaysin]

I kind of wish this Jesse segment was on Impact. It's heartwrenching.

[The Final Countdown]

I kind of wish this Jesse segment was on Impact. It's heartwrenching.

It's more interesting than just about anything on Impact in months. And I've never given a damn about him or Ink Inc.

[Hyde Hill]

I kind of wish this Jesse segment was on Impact. It's heartwrenching.

 

Wasn't a large part of it on Impact though? Or was that just my version?

[Hyde Hill]

Also what was with all the stuff from previous and this weeks reaction? One of the reason's I hate the E is all their repeats from other content. If I wan't to see ReAction I will watch that plus they should have made it clearer it was from ReAction if the intent was to promote that show. Still Neal sounded real in that interview, too bad I don't care about him.

 

Reading from 411 mania apparently my version had some reaction stuff in it which the live air did not have so ignore my comments on that.

 

Richards beating Abyss? Really? Even if it was lucky it shouldn't happen.

 

Rhino looked good. The rest of EV2 (Dreamer, Sabu) was made to look decent which is a credit to Fourtune.

[Hyde Hill]

Seems they replaced their regular show with a bound for glory online kickoff show. Dixie will be doing a Q and A and exclusive interviews with wrestlers.

 

http://www.tnawrestling.com/news/item/2148-thursday-bound-for-glory-kickoff-show

[Hyde Hill]

Overall a decent/mediocre show. Still they did build all the ppv matches pretty well. Still can't wait for EV2 and Nash/Sting/Jarrett stuff to just go away! And Hogan and Flair going back to supporting characters. Liked that this week how Flair was supporting Fourtune and not hogging the limelight.

[Moe Hunter]

I don't get the distrust for Heyman. He doesn't need to bring some in-ring innovation to be successful. He has proven time and again that he has a solid booking base - stories that make sense, giving the mic to the right guys for the right reasons. Building characters that people should give a crap about, and not forgetting about them a few weeks later.

 

IMO he has the ability to fill all the holes in TNA's booking, if he's allowed to run with his plans. If they don't give him full control, they won't get full results.

[Stennick]

Moe what would be time and time again? ECW and Smackdown which he booked for less than a year?

 

In ECW he booked heavily around a hardcore product, swearing, sexual overtones, violence, blood, carnage, he had no sponsers, no rules, he was the worldest biggest backyard promotion in a lot of ways content included. He obviously can not and I'm sure would not book that way (I hope) in 2010. As Vince said in his DVD Pauls product appealed to a very small base of people. He wasn't and couldn't gain the appeal of the masses using the product he was.

 

Reminds me of Jay Z's The Takeover "I sampled your flow, you made it a hot 16 I made it a song". Or however the line goes. It means yeah I jacked your style becuase you weren't using it right. You had limited ability with it, I tweaked it and it appealed to the masses. That is what the Attitude era was. Vince and Vince essentially outbooked Heyman. As horrible as it is to hear Russo and Mcmahon took Heyman's style, toned it down, adjusted it and presented WWF Attitude. Paul did some pretty good booking there but a LOT of it centered around that hardcore, rebellious style. The guy had a national t.v deal and say what you will but I found it every week. The guy showed up with his entire promotion on RAW, he was in every wrestling magazine in the world and he was on national television for a year and two months. It took less than that for Vince to climb out of the gutter and reclaim first place and it took less than that for WCW's finger poke of doom into oblivion. What I'm saying is 14 months is enough time to be successful. Paul has blamed TNN however at the same time I believe it was Paul for the first time as head booker being told "we won't allow that on our television screen". He would face that and maybe even more now days with the different activist groups.

 

He was head booker of Smackdown for less than a year, in that year ratings did not improve significantly, house show attendances didn't shoot up. Essentially there was no statistical improvement over the regime before him or the regime after him.

 

Paul was a good booker I'm not saying he isn't but what I am saying is that he never proved he could book a national promotion with a television deal, sponsors and most importantly Paul has never proven he can have a boss. Its because of those things that I don't think Paul is half the booker he's made out to be. ECW died at essentially its success pinicale. It died a year after getting national television so there wasn't that time that would be needed for him to run out his welcome the way Bischoff, Russo and others have done. His Smackdown was just enough time to place the Smackdown Six into the main event it wasn't near enough time to see where he would have went with those stories.

 

Pro Wrestling is all about protecting your image or your gimmick. Pauls image is that of a creative guru who can make water into whine. I think in part he demands so much to go back because maybe he knows those demands won't be met. In my line of work sometimes we "out bid" ourselves. We know we can't do the job they want us to but business wise it doesn't make sense to say "I can't" so you charge more than what the going rate is, they go elsewhere and you're not known as the guy or company that couldn't.

 

I know some people have strong feelings about Paul but when you look at his body of work it just doesn't lend itself to a large national promotion thats trying to increase its visibility. If anything Paul might be better suited for ROH, he seems to fit that us against the world mentality and I'm sure he could get away with more on HDnet than he ever could "real" cable.

[Hyde Hill]

Also to ad on that Paul's speciality is in creating Brand Identity and not brand awareness or (monetary) engagement, Paul was great in promoting ECW being bigger then it actually was which was actually the downfall of the company if you look at it objectively he overexpanded too fast and was banking too much on future income, meaning if I build it they will come, well people did come but not enough by a long shot and when they came they did not spend enough. Yes TNA needs work on it's identity but it's main problem is still awareness. Maybe once the awareness is at a sufficient level TNA could/should switch more to identity but right now that is a secondary focus imho. And for someone who is an identity guru to come in and want 10 percent of your business when identity is a secondary priority is just a no no. Heyman saying TNA was not ready for him is a good image protection line but just bs. He just does not want to do wrestling period and his skill set does not match TNA's current priorities.

[Self]

Skipped Impact because the spoilers didn't impress me. Watching Reaction right now, and I still love the style of the show. It's more low-key, relaxed, 'real'. The characters aren't trying to pop the crowd with catchphrases and shouty wrestling promos, but instead explaining their issues in a clear manner. It really floats my boat.

 

• Liked the Jesse Neal interview. Didn't like a 'dramatic' music behind it. Made it seem really fake when talking about "his rage".
  
• How stoned is Brian Kendrick? I have no idea why he's in EV2.0, but he sounds so completely off his rocker that it probably makes sense to him.
  
• I'm so sick of Abyss it's not even funny any more. I can usually find something to like in everyone in wrestling, but I really don't like him.
  
• I have no idea who the babyfaces are supposed to be in the beautiful people storyline, but I know who is on each side, and Madison is really doing it for me right now. She seemed really, really happy. Apparently I like that.
  
• I don't like the name, but London's Brawling are definitely in the running for being my favourite tag team right now. They are handsome devils.
  

 

I might watch this PPV. This Reaction show explained the matches, and a few (Angle/Jeff, Pope/Anderson, MCMG/LB) have me interested.

[PeterHilton]

That's pretty much Saturday by default. Like you said, they aren't ready to tackle WWE head-on. So that combined with recent history lets out Monday. And Friday as well. Although the "our flagship vs their B team" argument could potentially be one worth considering. Sunday as you mention has the NFL juggernaut. So that leaves Saturday.

 

 

Varsity window? Do you watch prime time Saturday night programming? That's not where networks put ANY of their ace shows.

 

What slag said...no one in their right mind would put their top show on Saturday night.

[juggaloninjalee]

WCW had their main show on Saturdays... it turned into a jobber show basically because of low ratings and the birth of Nitro.

[PeterHilton]

WCW had their main show on Saturdays... it turned into a jobber show basically because of low ratings and the birth of Nitro.

 

different era...WWF also had a syndicated show that ran mostly on Saturday in most parts of the country..

 

But yeah, eventually it became a jobber show because it was waste of time to throw good programming on when no one watches.

 

Thats why SNME is basically a throw-away show now

[Hyde Hill]

What could make sense if having a post cartoons noon, the other 'traditional' wrestling slot, pg show for TNA to hook the kiddies who can then 'graduate' to Impact so to speak. Either Xplosion or a PG edit of Impact. Saturday night is a bad bad place though.

[sabataged]

Moe what would be time and time again? ECW and Smackdown which he booked for less than a year?

 

In ECW he booked heavily around a hardcore product, swearing, sexual overtones, violence, blood, carnage, he had no sponsers, no rules, he was the worldest biggest backyard promotion in a lot of ways content included. He obviously can not and I'm sure would not book that way (I hope) in 2010. As Vince said in his DVD Pauls product appealed to a very small base of people. He wasn't and couldn't gain the appeal of the masses using the product he was.

 

Reminds me of Jay Z's The Takeover "I sampled your flow, you made it a hot 16 I made it a song". Or however the line goes. It means yeah I jacked your style becuase you weren't using it right. You had limited ability with it, I tweaked it and it appealed to the masses. That is what the Attitude era was. Vince and Vince essentially outbooked Heyman. As horrible as it is to hear Russo and Mcmahon took Heyman's style, toned it down, adjusted it and presented WWF Attitude. Paul did some pretty good booking there but a LOT of it centered around that hardcore, rebellious style. The guy had a national t.v deal and say what you will but I found it every week. The guy showed up with his entire promotion on RAW, he was in every wrestling magazine in the world and he was on national television for a year and two months. It took less than that for Vince to climb out of the gutter and reclaim first place and it took less than that for WCW's finger poke of doom into oblivion. What I'm saying is 14 months is enough time to be successful. Paul has blamed TNN however at the same time I believe it was Paul for the first time as head booker being told "we won't allow that on our television screen". He would face that and maybe even more now days with the different activist groups.

 

He was head booker of Smackdown for less than a year, in that year ratings did not improve significantly, house show attendances didn't shoot up. Essentially there was no statistical improvement over the regime before him or the regime after him.

 

Paul was a good booker I'm not saying he isn't but what I am saying is that he never proved he could book a national promotion with a television deal, sponsors and most importantly Paul has never proven he can have a boss. Its because of those things that I don't think Paul is half the booker he's made out to be. ECW died at essentially its success pinicale. It died a year after getting national television so there wasn't that time that would be needed for him to run out his welcome the way Bischoff, Russo and others have done. His Smackdown was just enough time to place the Smackdown Six into the main event it wasn't near enough time to see where he would have went with those stories.

 

Pro Wrestling is all about protecting your image or your gimmick. Pauls image is that of a creative guru who can make water into whine. I think in part he demands so much to go back because maybe he knows those demands won't be met. In my line of work sometimes we "out bid" ourselves. We know we can't do the job they want us to but business wise it doesn't make sense to say "I can't" so you charge more than what the going rate is, they go elsewhere and you're not known as the guy or company that couldn't.

 

I know some people have strong feelings about Paul but when you look at his body of work it just doesn't lend itself to a large national promotion thats trying to increase its visibility. If anything Paul might be better suited for ROH, he seems to fit that us against the world mentality and I'm sure he could get away with more on HDnet than he ever could "real" cable.

 

I generally take you for a complete idiot but that was a well thought out post actually and for once I agree 100%

[Stennick]

I generally take you for a complete idiot but that was a well thought out post actually and for once I agree 100%

 

Don't hate that I've finished 16 and a third novels and have a family that was on a professional volleyball practice team and I successfully own 11 multi million dollar businesses.

[Big Roguey]

Don't hate that I've finished 16 and a third novels and have a family that was on a professional volleyball practice team and I successfully own 11 multi million dollar businesses.

 

Stennick if this is true, I want to marry you and have your children. And I'm a male!

[Self]

I call Mistress!

 

You heard me. I called it!

[Big Roguey]

I call Mistress!

 

You heard me. I called it!

 

I call hitting you with a shoe when I find out!

[Stennick]

Its as true as those girls you call on the 900 numbers looking like the girls on the commercials, its as true as anything else on the internet my good friends

[Big Roguey]

Its as true as those girls you call on the 900 numbers looking like the girls on the commercials, its as true as anything else on the internet my good friends

 

You mean. Your not rich. C'mon Self, lets go and internet pimp elsewhere.

[BHK1978]

Don't hate that I've finished 16 and a third novels and have a family that was on a professional volleyball practice team and I successfully own 11 multi million dollar businesses.

 

All I have to say is:

[cappyboy]

Varsity window? Do you watch prime time Saturday night programming? That's not where networks put ANY of their ace shows.

 

Dude, you're over-reaching. Who cares what works for sitcoms or detective shows or any other genre? We're talking wrestling. Other than Impact, name for me one, ONE, mainline wrestling show for any promotion that had pretensions of being a serious player that ran midweek. Unless you stretch back to the death throes of the territories, you can't do it. The closest examples would be Thunder and Smackdown at the beginning of its run. Both technically A shows in TEW terms but both decidedly support shows to the big boy shows that were Nitro and RAW respectively.

 

Every mainline show for a promotion that's Mattered or aspired to Matter have been on the fringes of the week. And even with the modern hot spot of Monday night, that came into being because WWE made it so. And they had the example of Monday Night Football to point the way. TNA's nowhere near that stature, never has been and doesn't have the prior trailblazer to show them the way that the E did with RAW. If they want what they claim they want, they need to get to the fringes of the week. "The varsity window", if you will. Otherwise they are just a bunch of posers. Posers I'll may well watch if they behave consistently. But posers nonetheless.

 

Plus, drifting in and out of WWE so sporadiacally, I was unaware that Smackdown was moving. If Smackdown's moving out, that negates my condemnation of Friday as a possible varsity slot. Not sure that dissuades me any that Saturday night's the better slot. Friday night hasn't had the same "fight night" appeal it used to have since boxing marginalized itself. But either way would create more of an event atmosphere than Thursday.

[Stennick]

Again Cappy you're kind of not understanding exactly how television works. TNA doesn't get to PICK when they air their show (for the most part), Spike puts it where they would make the most money at it.

 

Television is completely reliant on advertising which is mostly reliant on television ratings. They get better television ratings on a Thursday for their demographic than they would on a Saturday when their demographic are out playing beer pong and having relations with women. They may DVR it but Spike doesn't get hardly any advertising money for DVR numbers not compared to what they get when people are watching it live.

 

The goal is to put TNA into a slot and then follow it with a show you want to do well. This is how Ultimate Fighter got started if you remember. It would come on directly after TNA hooking that audience as well as their own audience drawing huge successful ratings (by Spike's standards) and launching several seasons of that television show which I believe they have now branched out and made into its own slot so it could do the same for something else while putting Deadliest Warrior on after TNA.

 

I'm not sure what you're comparing TNA to. You said you can't base it on a sitcom well even if you're basing it on sports remember that the NFL is having their OPENING night their first ever game of the season on a Thursday. Thursday is a valuable time for television shows it always has been, wasn't Seinfield on Thursdays? Football is on thursdays (increasingly so in the latter years), UFC was on Thursdays. Smackdown was very much an A show on Thursdays didn't their first ever broadcast have The Rock vs. Triple H with Shawn Michaels as guest referee?

 

My point is you obviously can view things how you would like but saying that something isn't big time just because its not on Monday or Friday is kind of strange, out of the box thinking that isn't followed by anyone in the television I've ever met and since I work in it I've met a lot of people involved in it