The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Self]

BTW Self how can you drive to a Dragon Gate show while living in the UK? Did they do a UK tour or where you in the US/Japan at the time?

 

Totally missed this before. Dragon Gate did a tour on the UK last month. Well, that is to say they ran two shows here. Not advertised all that well (although they both got 800ish sell outs, so clearly they advertised well somewhere) I only heard about the shows a week before, which was just enough time to snap up a ticket, book a day off work, fuel up the car and hit the road. 5 hour drive to get there, but both shows were awesome. Reignited my love of wrestling. I hope they made enough money to come back next year.

 

And as for Self's assessment (hah!), I agree. I have given precious little money to TNA in the two years plus that I've watched. But I have given them my time by watching Impact each week. I've added to those ratings. I've never felt inclined to buy the PPVs because TNA has never sold me on them. Its not money - I can more than afford them. But I'm not giving away my money - earn it. And TNA hasn't. As WWE has only rarely in the past few years.

 

Totally. I make decent money. I earn more than I need. I have disposable income I'd LOVE to spend on quality.

 

Although I alway balk at the idea of buying PPV's. $50 to watch a show? Seems steep. Hell, even the $15 DG-USA are charging for their upcoming iPPV has me unsure. It seems like a lot of money to watch something once.

[Johnny Fenoli]

First to Stenicks post: I agree on AJ (also perplexed about the whole TV title thing and how he's going to defend it every week, but never does). I agree on Morgan, not to mention he lost to Kendrick recently. I agree on lethal, he was the main reason to tune in for a few weeks there and now he's been reduced to nothing again. But I only partly agree on pope. He was on a roll before he kept getting attacked by wolfe. But that said, won some pretty big matches during the tournament (uncluding external matches like pinning angle in the final four tag match on impact), and most of those he lost were due to foul play. They may put the title back on Sting, maybe. Highly doubt it's going on Nash. I think Pope will have a strong push for a title shot before next year's end, either the world title, or taking the Legends/Global/TV title off of AJ.

 

As for the clues, I'm only doing this once, because it's very time consuming (6 hrs to be exact). It's not comprehensive, but it's enough for the major stuff, some of it very repetitive (which is why it amazes me some parts of this storyline were unseen by people). It's close to chronological order, a few may be off. This is the evidence for the 1st and most likely version I proposed before, based on the most obvious storylines, there are still other possiblities as to where it will go.

 

This starts after Sting returns to attack Hogan and abyss and starts brawlling with RVD

 

 

 

Deception interview Sting not sure if RVD is in on it or a pawn

 

 

Nash vs JJ part two, gives possible motive for why hulk and EB have been avoiding him (presumably, for bringing back hall and waltman, although I think EB was in on that), Nash is threatened with suspension like sting

 

 

Sting vs JJ, HH, and EB

 

 

Segment 1: Hogan 'welcomes' Ev2. To me what I hear is Hogan is upset Dixie didn't let him in on Ev2, about the compairson of Ev2 to him, and he states he basically missed everything they did while he was in WCW with the nWo (he's slighting them, not complimenting them). Per Abyss THEY are pissed about Ev2 and hold Dixie responsible

Same clip, 2nd half of 2nd last segment, EB not happy with Dixie's decisions, tries to upstage her and sets up the Abyss RVD match. Abyss comes out and confronts, but never attacks EB

 

 

 

 

Segment 1: Hardy and Angle Draw while Hardy is in the ankle lock. EB advances both, Dixie overrides and makes a rematch. Bischoff looks upset

 

Segment 1 and part of segment 2 same show (but carried onto reaction): They Tie Again, EB is happy, dixie is not. Not sure it matters, but I do note the hebners are involved. Segment three reactions from EB and dixie.

 

So here's my take whether it was a plan from the go or something that developed later, hogan and EB were conspiring to control TNA (warning, I found it pretty much impossible to keep this perfectly chronological). They brought in everybody (Hall, Waltman, the nasties, OJ, Bubba, Hardy, RVD, Anderson etc - not sure hall and waltment were intended by HH and EB, although EB seemed in on it). I doubt any of the last three were in on it initially and I don't think they are with fortune (that monday night hogan/abyss, flair AJ match was just to make headlines to compete with Raw). Anyway, Sting (who had skipped interviews and appearances since Hogan took over to show his disapproval and later voiced it while attacking Dixie) could smell a rat and attacked.

 

hogan knows the power that goes with the title and given that he and EB are very power hungry they wanted one of their guys to become champ (since hogan can't wrestle anymore). In comes RVD. I'm not sure if they were playing RVD from the start or not. My feeling is they had no reason to until Ev2 showed up and he showed allegiance to them (not to mention they were loyal to dixie who Hogan and EB are trying to screw over). This makes RVD one of the enemies so they need to take the title off of him. Hardy and abyss fail mutple times and thus they need a plan to Remove RVD (as abyss stated multiple times).

 

Initially, JJ also knew what was going on, but then joined HH and EB to oust Dixie and try to get some of the power back. Nash tries unsuccessfully to set up a meeting with HH and EB, meets tessmacher and suddenly sides with sting against HH (sting was previously suspended for his efforts and Nash is threateded with suspension. Dixie is given bodyguards to keep her from contacting these sting so that she doesn't find out what he knows). Pope later finds out from tessmacher and joins forces. In between, we see the first proof I'm aware of that fortune is with HH and JJ when the attack Sting and Nash only during the arguement between the four. I'm not sure when they joined forces, but my guess would be somewhere around the time Ev2 showed up. It wouldn't make since to have been earlier as they would have just kept the title on AJ and there would have been no reason for the long feud with flair and AJ. Basically they needed a large group to take care of the problem and these guys answered.

 

The smoke and mirrors sting and Nash keep talking about are Hulk and Eric constantly talking about how they are here for TNA, falsely befriending Dixie, and trying to make it look like they are the faces and Sting and Nash are the bad guys, in addition to the abyss 'THEY' storyline.,

 

We also see JJ try to recruit Joe and even though he later helps JJ, he intially refuses and states he's basically in this for himself and therefore he can't be trusted and gets screwed at the PPV

 

As for Hardy, I don't know when he's first in on it, but the seeds are planted with his losses to RVD and all of the overly positive interviews about their relationship. Going into BFG, I thought he may turn, but wasn't sure and thought anderson and or angle could have also turned. Looking back, I think they were definitely with Hardy (they called his near loss to angle a draw just as he was liekly about to tap), and angle may have been in on it as well and lead to believe he'd get the title win (as they drew again which is what EB wanted and not at all what dixie wanted and gives EB a back up plan in case something happens to hardy. Not to mention per the reports he tweeted he is upset they chose hardy overy him and the supposed phone call from hulk endorsing him at the start of impact)

 

Things I don't know: if hulk was with EB all along on this plan or not. EB seemed like a heel all along, Hulk seemed to vary, especially the first few weeks. I'm also not sure what the fake argument before hardy turned at BFG was about unless maybe they were still not yet in agreement on it or on whether it'd be hardy or angle. That would also explain Anderson's comments and brawl with angle on reaction before BFG

 

My bet is that now that they have accomplished what they came together for, some of the different players in the new group may start to go their own ways after a few weeks and there may be further storylines within the storyline, but we'll see, I've been wrong before ..... they still haven't explained Joe's kidnapping or what dixie's surprise was going to be.

 

I also have a feeling that the whole ranking 's system has been to keep the title on their guys by limting other's title shots. Who were constantly in the top spots?... Anderson, RVD, Hardy, Abyss, all of whom initially were with hogan whether or not they were in on this particular plan at the time or not.

 

 

and to answer the most recent post's point about sting..... he's been trying to warn us/dixie and he tried to take the title off of RVD who I believe was aligned with them at the time. That said, the fact that he didn't do more,especially when she wanted answers when she suspended him, makes me wonder (although I also wonder what more he could do, heck choking the woman didn't get her attention), which along with them beating the crap out of Joe when JJ left at BFG (why else if Joe is not part of THEY?) is the only reason I had the version where he and nash end up joining THEY.

 

I hope I covered everything important.

 

 

 

Wow... great job LT... that was nice, I actually like and support the whole thing. They should do this for the next episode of iMPACT tomorrow.

 

It LOOKS like it was planned out and storylined well in advance. So, I give them a ton of credit for that. Jarrett, Hogan and Bischoff are the power hungry ones... Abyss is their minion who's a Hogan disciple that they can use to destroy whatever gets in their way. Fourtune, are in it for the money.

 

Then on the good guy side you have Sting and Nash, who've been trying to warn us the whole time. You've got Miss Tessmacher (named after the character from the Superman movie who is very similar) playing both sides of the fence, giving info to Nash and Pope. The Pope/Jay Lethal stuff didnt play just right because Pope was injured, so their storylines are confusing and less thought out because of this. Lethal since Pope came back has been pushed back down allowing Pope to move back into the spotlight. RVD, stuff makes total sense the way you layed it out... They wanted him at first, but his loyalty is always going to be to ECW. He couldn't be played... Instead the went with the one who is weak, just see his addiction history...

 

Jeff Hardy, I think the writers chose him mainly for the shock value. I think the use of him is what threw me off the most at first. Him paired with Abyss, who I was thinking was building up to a "darker/eviler" storyline, got me confused, when you throw Jarrett in the mix. A better way to go, to me, from the beginning would have been Matt Morgan in the Abyss role. Then, I personally wouldn't have gone off on my on path in my mind.

 

So now you got Angle, who the whole time thought HE was going to be in Hardy's role, he even grew his beard out for it. But instead they chose Hardy, so now he's in this tweener spot. Mad they didn't choose him as their champ, instead went with Hardy.

 

The face/heel lineup looks like this, right?:

 

The bad guys: Abyss, Hardy, Jarrett, Hogan, Bischoff, with the help of Fourtune

 

The Good Guys: Sting, Nash, Pope, EV2.0

 

Then the tweeners: Angle and Anderson; oh and Miss Tessmacher.

 

--------

 

just went to the TNA page to look for something like this, and looked at the roster. I haven't been on this site in a long long time, why is Amazing Kong and Roxxi still on the roster? Weird that they've added people like Cookie (no Robbie) , but haven't removed Kong and Roxxi...

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah they are notoriously bad with their roster updates. I don't see Kong though but Roxxi is still on there yeah.

 

In the background Black and white/grey for Abyss, Bisch, Hog, and Jeff? Oh come on. Next thing we know Joe will feel betrayed by everyone and he starts playing the Sting role, hell they maybe go so far as having Sting give him his bat and Joe starts hanging around in the rafters ffs.

[Astil]

Why didn't Pope, Sting and Nash come out and say "They're gonna recreate nWo guys."

 

Why did Sting take RVD's title belt.

 

Why did Hardy turn? For the lols?

 

Why did Hogan bring in RVD, just to mess with him?

[20LEgend]

Liontamer, brilliant post actually makes me hate this angle less, great job

[PeterHilton]

Liontamer, brilliant post actually makes me hate this angle less, great job

 

It is a brilliant post and it's a really well done recap. My only criticism is that - unless TNA actually does some kind of video recap or has one of the characters point out these clues - most people won't pick up on it.

 

Even 'Lost' did those 'this is what's happened up to now' episodes.

 

So TNA needs to follow up ..preferably soon..to take advantage of how 'smart' the story seems once it's laid out.

[Hyde Hill]

It is a brilliant post and it's a really well done recap. My only criticism is that - unless TNA actually does some kind of video recap or has one of the characters point out these clues - most people won't pick up on it.

 

Even 'Lost' did those 'this is what's happened up to now' episodes.

 

So TNA needs to follow up ..preferably soon..to take advantage of how 'smart' the story seems once it's laid out.

 

THIS, like I said in different words. And fill up the plot holes left behind.

[Stennick]

POTENTIAL SPOILER:

 

Apparently Sting has a shoulder injury and this set of tapings is his last with the company with his contract running out in December.

 

If this is true and if Nash is really leaving that has got to be a bad break for TNA.

 

 

Credit the Wrestling Observer

[20LEgend]

It is a brilliant post and it's a really well done recap. My only criticism is that - unless TNA actually does some kind of video recap or has one of the characters point out these clues - most people won't pick up on it.

 

Even 'Lost' did those 'this is what's happened up to now' episodes.

 

So TNA needs to follow up ..preferably soon..to take advantage of how 'smart' the story seems once it's laid out.

 

Yeah they really do as I didn't read into that much and i'm sure most TNA viewers won't have so heres hoping they make it seem logical somewhat on tV

 

 

EdiT:

POTENTIAL SPOILER:

 

 

Credit the Wrestling Observer

 

Hope that isn't true

[Johnny Fenoli]

Why didn't Pope, Sting and Nash come out and say "They're gonna recreate nWo guys."

 

Why did Sting take RVD's title belt.

 

Why did Hardy turn? For the lols?

 

Why did Hogan bring in RVD, just to mess with him?

 

 

 

MY GUESSES....

 

1. They felt it, and knew it, but weren't sure? Scared to loose their jobs? Would end the storyline too early, lol

 

2. Because he thought RVD could be part of it, and the belt represents power?

 

3. He's the one that's popular and they could control, he's thought to be of weaker mind, due to addictions? Shock value?

 

4. He's popular with the fans, and Hogan could get the fans over on his side? But then realized RVD was loyal to the fans and ECW... not to money, power and Hogan?

 

.... in the end... I dont know, I'm just guessin'...

[PeterHilton]

POTENTIAL SPOILER:

 

 

 

Credit the Wrestling Observer

 

Meh. it potentially de-rails the 'intricate storyline' but they could also just cover it up by having Eric fire them both for insubordination.

 

One of those guys is realistically way past his prime and usefulness. The other? He's a natural fit for one last run with the E, a HOF induction, Legends deal, and an appearance at WM in Atlanta.

[Astil]

3. He's the one that's popular and they could control, he's thought to be of weaker mind, due to addictions? Shock value?

 

.... in the end... I dont know, I'm just guessin'...

 

As a Hardy mark, why would his character do it? I can see why Hogan would want Hardy.

[djthefunkchris]

It is a brilliant post and it's a really well done recap. My only criticism is that - unless TNA actually does some kind of video recap or has one of the characters point out these clues - most people won't pick up on it.

 

Even 'Lost' did those 'this is what's happened up to now' episodes.

 

So TNA needs to follow up ..preferably soon..to take advantage of how 'smart' the story seems once it's laid out.

 

Ok, LT put in quite the post there, and this is the second time PeterHilton has said what I quoted here. This is where I am in the thread, and I'm not sure I'll read the rest, might just pop to the end and try to keep up there for... tonight anyways.

 

I agree 100% with PH on this. They (TNA) needs to "recap" this stuff, in the same manner that LionTamer laid it out. If they did this, it would be seen in a much brighter light.

 

I still say that it's not going to hurt them half as much as reading this thread would lead one to believe. In fact, I think it's going to help them, but we will see.

[Johnny Fenoli]

As a Hardy mark, why would his character do it? I can see why Hogan would want Hardy.

 

 

 

Ummm.... He was upset at RVD for something? He wants the title? They promised him they'd bring his brother in?

 

I dont know... what ya think?

[Chikbot]

for some weird reason i believe matt got released a month ago and his wacko twitter postings are him planning to come to tna as a vigilante sorta guy

[Stennick]

If that were the case the WWE would have future endervered him on their website. I'm kind of curious why they haven't with all the crap he's talked on his twitter.

 

Speaking of Matt's twitter. He mentioned Jeff told him three weeks ago that he was turning heel. Now if Eric and whoever else had planned on Jeff turning months ago I'm sure they would have let him know and I'm sure he would have let his brother know before three weeks ago. Makes me think that they picked Jeff to be part of this a month ago which is an interesting thought.

 

The other thing is back in what June? Dixie mentioned a "big change" then about a month ago she said that "big change was coming soon" then at some point she mentioned the big change going down on 10-10-10 now my question is clearly the "They" story had to be the "big change" since nothing else went down the entire show.

 

Why would Dixie make a big deal out of this on her twitter account to then act "horrified" when it went down. I think that would be pretty silly for her to advertise constantly on her twitter about this big change and then act "horrified and shocked". Why say anything? Especially when Abyss is going to say the EXACT same thing over and over and over and over again "10-10-10" was beat into everyone's skull. Its not like Dixie's twitter was going to reach anyone that iMpact. I think its just Dixie being Dixie.

 

I know everyone seems to have turned the wheel on this storyline and I'll give them credit that they MAY have planned some of this out. Hogan, Bischoff, Sting at the very least. That being said they DRAGGED this out, they could have accomplished this same thing in three months and instead drug it out for seven months.

 

Although there were clues to it, I'm not interested in it. I mean seriously Hogan as a heel? The guy can't even hardly walk what good is he going to be in this storyline? JJ as a top heel in a main event heel stable? Because TNA has never RAN that story before. Eric Bischoff started out as a "face" standing in the ring with Hogan, ripping up "scripts" or "run sheets" and promising a new era in TNA. He then turned heel and started making the life of Foley and Jarrett heel constantly. He then turned face again, and now he's heel again. Thats FOUR turns in EIGHT months. Seriously who cares about somebody that switches from heel or face on average every two months. Hardy turning is fine, I'm not sure I like it since Jeff is pretty awful on the mic and I have no interest hearing Hogan, Eric and JJ talk for him but I have no problem with it. Abyss as a heel doesn't bother me either but all in all the stable is pretty stupid and I don't care if they did plan this out for seven months I say its pretty useless.

 

On TOP of all that mess

 

SPOILERS

 

Now Flair joins and they have ELEVEN "top heels"? Seriously somebody is bound to get lost in the shuffle. Eric just said "we only have two hours we can't feature everyone" so you decided to plant 11 guys into ONE stable. So you need atleast half of that "fighting" them right? So we're looking at NEARLY 20 guys involved in one giant storyline. Isn't this EXACTLY what the nWo was? A giant heel stable that consumed nearly the entire show and just beat you over the head week after week with the story?

 

Atleast Evolution, The Horsemen, DX, The Corporation they kept their numbers fairly short 4-8 guys and they would rotate in and out of the group. They would have two or three feuds on the show and that would be it. With the nWo the ENTIRE promotion revolved around this one story and it gets old.

 

Now on the 10-21 spoilers its revealed that one of the EV2 guys is in this thing too. So now we're going to add ANOTHER heel to this already giant stable? Why not turn the whole damn promotion heel.

 

Thats why I'm not going to watch anymore, its not that this "doesn't make sense" anythin in pro wrestling can be made to make sense. I've seen Dustin Rhodes dressed up as a giant baby and get stunnered into a port a potty. So I've truly seen it all in pro wrestling. "making sense' is relative. My problem is its just not a GOOD storyline. I've seen these guys in these roles 15 years ago.

 

I want something NEW and heel Hogan, heel Jarrett, heel Eric Bischoff, and a GIANT 10+ man heel stable that will likely take up nearly the entire show in the coming weeks is just NOT new, its not fresh and its not worth watching.

 

/rant

[Basmat01]

POTENTIAL SPOILER:

 

 

Credit the Wrestling Observer

 

Why would it be a bad break? just means that there is now a chance for two talent to step up and take those spots

[Stennick]

Why would it be a bad break? just means that there is now a chance for two talent to step up and take those spots

 

Spoiler

 

The entire storyline has been built on Sting knowing everything.

 

If this week's tapings are really it for him he doesn't even get to confront any of them in the ring. From a storyline perspective it would be a bad break.

 

It would be like Sting randomly retiring before Starrcade ever happened. Sure the story could have gone on without him but from a storyline perspective its nice to have closure and now if thats true it won't be there. That and he's been so vital to TNA and one of the few guys willing to put over AJ, Abyss and whoever else. For both him and Nash to just randomly leave TNA seems unfortunate that they didn't get a "proper" send off at best and strange at worst.

[sebsplex]

Great post LT. There's definitely some structure in this convoluted mass of a storyline if you look for it, although I can't help but feel that a lot of the time, TNA have been covering bases with a lot of these segments and angles with only a general idea of the final outcome. It seems like a scattergun approach to booking. With several aborted feuds, the throwaway segments and other seemingly illogical facets it's difficult to pick what matters and what doesn't. You could practically link this storyline back to anything that's happened in TNA since H&B arrived and make some sort of connection. Maybe the Jarrett/Bischoff feud was always an elaborate plan to get rid of Foley. Maybe Brooke Hogan is part of 'They', maybe Lacey Von Erich is after saving Abyss from that false attack/arrest angle with Chelsea (another storyline that just got dropped), maybe Earl Hebner's part of 'They' for his part in the Orlando Screwjob, maybe it was part of the plan to knock Scott Hall off of the wagon and get him released.

 

It's up to TNA now to convey what mattered and what didn't whilst avoiding cheap swerves and sell this group and this seven month long saga - and turn make the outcome pay off.

[juggaloninjalee]

Great post LT. There's definitely some structure in this convoluted mass of a storyline if you look for it, although I can't help but feel that a lot of the time, TNA have been covering bases with a lot of these segments and angles with only a general idea of the final outcome. It seems like a scattergun approach to booking. With several aborted feuds, the throwaway segments and other seemingly illogical facets it's difficult to pick what matters and what doesn't. You could practically link this storyline back to anything that's happened in TNA since H&B arrived and make some sort of connection. Maybe the Jarrett/Bischoff feud was always an elaborate plan to get rid of Foley. Maybe Brooke Hogan is part of 'They', maybe Lacey Von Erich is after saving Abyss from that false attack/arrest angle with Chelsea (another storyline that just got dropped), maybe Earl Hebner's part of 'They' for his part in the Orlando Screwjob, maybe it was part of the plan to knock Scott Hall off of the wagon and get him released.

 

It's up to TNA now to convey what mattered and what didn't whilst avoiding cheap swerves and sell this group and this seven month long saga - and turn make the outcome pay off.

 

Hopefully they tie up all loose ends and explain everything using video clips. That would help and be kinda interesting I think.

[sabataged]

Personally i look at this storyline like it is Samoa Joe against the world.

[juggaloninjalee]

Personally i look at this storyline like it is Samoa Joe against the world.

 

If that is the case maybe he will get the Goldberg push again.

[PeterHilton]

Although there were clues to it, I'm not interested in it. I mean seriously Hogan as a heel? The guy can't even hardly walk what good is he going to be in this storyline? JJ as a top heel in a main event heel stable? Because TNA has never RAN that story before. Eric Bischoff started out as a "face" standing in the ring with Hogan, ripping up "scripts" or "run sheets" and promising a new era in TNA. He then turned heel and started making the life of Foley and Jarrett heel constantly. He then turned face again, and now he's heel again. Thats FOUR turns in EIGHT months. Seriously who cares about somebody that switches from heel or face on average every two months. Hardy turning is fine, I'm not sure I like it since Jeff is pretty awful on the mic and I have no interest hearing Hogan, Eric and JJ talk for him but I have no problem with it. Abyss as a heel doesn't bother me either but all in all the stable is pretty stupid and I don't care if they did plan this out for seven months I say its pretty useless.

 

Thats why I'm not going to watch anymore, its not that this "doesn't make sense" anythin in pro wrestling can be made to make sense. I've seen Dustin Rhodes dressed up as a giant baby and get stunnered into a port a potty. So I've truly seen it all in pro wrestling. "making sense' is relative. My problem is its just not a GOOD storyline. I've seen these guys in these roles 15 years ago.

 

I want something NEW and heel Hogan, heel Jarrett, heel Eric Bischoff, and a GIANT 10+ man heel stable that will likely take up nearly the entire show in the coming weeks is just NOT new, its not fresh and its not worth watching.

 

/rant[/color]

 

Totally agree. I commend liontamer for putting together such a great recap, but the fact that this has been in the works for so long doesn't make it a GOOD storyline.

 

As Stennick said, the fact that it took this long to do a rehash of the nWo - something that a ton of TNA fans were afraid would happen since the day Eric and Hogan joined - doesn't make it any better.

[Stennick]

TNADixie:

Just finished watching the LOST series. Better late than never. I am more lost than ever but loved it. Not everything needs to make sense.

Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:45:01 PM via web

 

That explains so much

[PeterHilton]

TNADixie:

Just finished watching the LOST series. Better late than never. I am more lost than ever but loved it. Not everything needs to make sense.

Tuesday, July 06, 2010 11:45:01 PM via web

 

That explains so much

 

It's like someone tried to explain the storyline to her and said "it's like Lost, Dixie."

 

Dixie: What's that?

 

And then someone hands her a DVD set and tells her to take a few days off.