The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[PeterHilton]

The people you describe are casual fans and most casual fans are satisfied with what they see on TV. Generally speaking, they don't go to an Indy. The fans that do to see Indy wrestling are mostly the ones who care about how people are booked.

 

Yup

 

For the most part, the same fans who will go to an indy are EXACTLY the same fans that wil tear apart a TV show based on smarky ideas like 'work rate.'

 

So while I agree that a lot of indy goers will just disregard TNA's booking, I also think it's definitely something they notice.

[Slagaholic]

The people you describe are casual fans and most casual fans are satisfied with what they see on TV. Generally speaking, they don't go to an Indy. The fans that do to see Indy wrestling are mostly the ones who care about how people are booked.

 

Yup

 

For the most part, the same fans who will go to an indy are EXACTLY the same fans that wil tear apart a TV show based on smarky ideas like 'work rate.'

 

So while I agree that a lot of indy goers will just disregard TNA's booking, I also think it's definitely something they notice.

 

But will they go "I was going to pay to go to this show...but TNA didn't book the co-main eventer well so...not gonna go now"

 

It also depends heavily on what indy promotion's fan base we're looking at and in which part of the country.

 

I was wrong for using a sweeping statement, I'm terribly sorry and will try very hard to never do it again.

[PeterHilton]

But will they go "I was going to pay to go to this show...but TNA didn't book the co-main eventer well so...not gonna go now"

 

 

Probably not. I don't think they completely disregard it and I think a lot of it has to do with that talent's particular reputation to begin with.

 

The example the article gaveof Samoa Joe, for instance: I thnk it's ridiculous to think there's less demand for Joe on the indy based on his TNA run. If he left TNA today he'd be a headliner for ROH (or PWG etc) the instant he set foot in their ring. After all, the same thing happened with Daniels and I don'tthink his TNA run was expecially noteworthy.

 

So what I'm saying is: Indy fans probably DO care about TNAs booking. But they probably DON'T care enough to not go to an event

[Slagaholic]

So in the end, we agree anyway!

[PeterHilton]

Regarding your rant

 

There are many wrestling fans who hate wrestling, that is unless it's presented the way they think it should be presented. You don't get that in many other entertainment mediums, in other mediums if you dislike it you just turn it off and quit bitching. When wrestling is being presented the way they want it to be they can do no wrong, all the great leaps in logic and bizarre booking is ignored. When it's not what they want they can do nothing right and all the issues with the booking become huge problems that are killing the company.

 

I totally disagree. If you go to music or movie or TV or sports websites and fan forums, you get the exact same kind of feedback.

 

The more invested/hardcore the fan, the more likely you are to hear that kind of analysis and negativity

 

EDIT: keep in mind, I wrote an NFL column for 411mania and have written for Walterfootball; so I have first hand experience on that sports deal. I was physically threatened on a weekly basis lol. Just go to any SEC fan fourm: the amount of time spent breaking down the most minute of details and the over-all sense of " nothing makes me happy" completely blows wrestling sites out of the water

 

I sorta went on a rant here on a subject that I usually go on a rant on. It's nothing new for me but I'm just tired of the constant childish bitching about booking and the assumption that the 2 million+ people who watch Raw and not Impact do so because of what they say is wrong with TNA.

 

And again - to be fair - TNA tends to attract a much larger percentage of the snarky smart fans. WWE makes it's living on the mainstream, so realistically as much as smart fans complain, they aren't who the E is marketing to.

 

Not so with TNA; they try to go after the net fans, so they are going to get more negative feedback because they care so much what the IWC thinks

[Fantabulous]

The example the article gaveof Samoa Joe, for instance: I thnk it's ridiculous to think there's less demand for Joe on the indy based on his TNA run. If he left TNA today he'd be a headliner for ROH the instant he set foot in their ring

 

Not right away and for the same reasons that Daniels didn't go right to the main events. ROH attracts the type of fan who isn't going to accept a TNA dropout as top star until he's earned his way back to the top.

[Self]

Most wrestling fans don't watch a wrestling show and go "well I wouldn't have booked it that way, UGH what terrible booking, they need to push _______!" Instead they actually watch it for fun, not to analyze every aspect of the show and compare it to what you would have done had you gotten off your ass, worked hard, built relationships in the business, got lucky and got to book the show yourself.

 

It's the same thing with many movie reviewers who babble about spotty script writing, lazy directing and poor character development as if John Q. Moviefan is going to give a damn. The average movie goer doesn't watch it with those things in mind, they watch movies to be entertained by the writing and directing.

 

What? Casual movie fans do care about spotty script writing, lazy directing and poor character development, but they do so on a subconscious emotional level rather than an intellectual level. If a character doesn't develop in a satifying way throughout the movie, it can be an empty and unfulfilling experience. Casual viewers might not know why it feels empty, but they'll feel it all the same. It's the same with wrestling. When the heel Bully Ray faces tremendous 3-on-1 odds going into a PPV, a casual fan won't critique it like a hardcore fan, they won't rationlize it, but it might not feel compelling to them either. That's the dangerous thing. Not fury. Apathy. I doubt many casual fans would turn off infuriated at the booking. Rather they would simply not tune in the next week due to lack of emotional fulfillment. Done that with plenty of tv shows myself.

[PeterHilton]

Not right away and for the same reasons that Daniels didn't go right to the main events. ROH attracts the type of fan who isn't going to accept a TNA dropout as top star until he's earned his way back to the top.

 

Maybe. Joe had an epic run in ROH...

 

BUt to be fair let's say they expect him to "earn his way to the top."

 

That's not the same as "they wouldn't pay to see him" which is what that article was claiming; that the booking on Impact was so bad that TNA stars were literally losing indy dates.

 

And I doubt that. Which was my point.

[20LEgend]

So at the PPV Kaz referenced the TNA website but on iMPACT Jeff was oblivious to the fact he was facing Rob V?

[Slagaholic]

I totally disagree. If you go to music or movie or TV or sports websites and fan forums, you get the exact same kind of feedback.

 

The more invested/hardcore the fan, the more likely you are to hear that kind of analysis and negativity

 

EDIT: keep in mind, I wrote an NFL column for 411mania and have written for Walterfootball; so I have first hand experience on that sports deal. I was physically threatened on a weekly basis lol. Just go to any SEC fan fourm: the amount of time spent breaking down the most minute of details and the over-all sense of " nothing makes me happy" completely blows wrestling sites out of the water

I know where you're coming from. Perhaps I'm wrong in this assumption but I believe that the internet is a larger percentage of wrestling fandom than the percentage of internet fandom in those other mediums. Which is why I said what I said in the manner in which I said it. Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

When it comes to sports, that's a completely different animal than any other form of entertainment so I chose to exclude it. The emotional investment that goes into sports rivals that of political affiliation. For example you never would hear a fan yelling "we won!" when Mad Men wins an Emmy.

 

And again - to be fair - TNA tends to attract a much larger percentage of the snarky smart fans. WWE makes it's living on the mainstream, so realistically as much as smart fans complain, they aren't who the E is marketing to.

 

Not so with TNA; they try to go after the net fans, so they are going to get more negative feedback because they care so much what the IWC thinks

 

A good point but I don't believe that the principle cause of the whining aimed at TNA is because they care about what the IWC thinks.

 

What? Casual movie fans do care about spotty script writing, lazy directing and poor character development, but they do so on a subconscious emotional level rather than an intellectual level. If a character doesn't develop in a satifying way throughout the movie, it can be an empty and unfulfilling experience. Casual viewers might not know why it feels empty, but they'll feel it all the same. It's the same with wrestling. When the heel Bully Ray faces tremendous 3-on-1 odds going into a PPV, a casual fan won't critique it like a hardcore fan, they won't rationlize it, but it might not feel compelling to them either. That's the dangerous thing. Not fury. Apathy. I doubt many casual fans would turn off infuriated at the booking. Rather they would simply not tune in the next week due to lack of emotional fulfillment. Done that with plenty of tv shows myself.

 

While agree with your sentiments to a point, I don't believe that what you're saying is necessarily true in most or even many cases. There are plenty of examples of spotty script writing, lazy directing, and poor character development being attributes of blockbuster, award winning, movies and TV shows. Attributing all of that lack of emotional fulfillment to a subconscious reviewer is a bit of a stretch. There are many things that can cause that feeling.

[PeterHilton]

I know where you're coming from. Perhaps I'm wrong in this assumption but I believe that the internet is a larger percentage of wrestling fandom than the percentage of internet fandom in those other mediums. Which is why I said what I said in the manner in which I said it. Again, maybe I'm wrong, but I don't think I am.

 

It would be hard to prove. I think in either case, they net fans tends to be the 'vocal minority.'

 

And in both cases, they ( the net fans )wrongly assume - as you've stated in the past - that the majority of 'casual' fans feel the way they do.

 

When it comes to sports, that's a completely different animal than any other form of entertainment so I chose to exclude it. The emotional investment that goes into sports rivals that of political affiliation. For example you never would hear a fan yelling "we won!" when Mad Men wins an Emmy.

 

Fair enough. I just use it as an example because they are forms of entertainment.

 

A good point but I don't believe that the principle cause of the whining aimed at TNA is because they care about what the IWC thinks.

 

No. Neither do I. I just think - and again this would be hard to prove - is that the TNA audience has a larger percentage of "internet wrestling nerds" than the WWE does.

 

So it's easier for those fans who are happily entertained by what TNA does to be drowned out by the complaining of those who pick apart every segment.

[ampulator]

I'll say this again... no one really cares about how TNA books. Even if markiest mark knows TNA is the one is screwing up, not the workers.

 

If anyone really considered workers stocks to drop, it's working for TNA in the first place, not how TNA uses them.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Isis the Amazon, the six foot nine woman who was to have appeared as the protégé of Vickie Guerrero on the third season of WWE's NXT, wrestled a dark match against Florida independent women's wrestler Leva Bates prior to Tuesday night's TNA Impact taping in Orlando, Florida. Company officials were aware of her prior to her involvement with WWE last year, but showed no interest after watching tapes of her wrestling. They reportedly changed their tune on her because she appeared for WWE.

 

Thats pretty sad if true and says a lot about the management.

[Bigpapa42]

So TNA is hyping this week's Impact as having the "Most Shocking Surprise of the Year" on it.

[20LEgend]

So TNA is hyping this week's Impact as having the "Most Shocking Surprise of the Year" on it.

 

STING!

 

TBH I'm bored of it

 

They are Guaranteeing it as well, bigger than The Rock's return, bigger than Matt Hardy making a fool of him self , bigger than THEY being Fortune [yawn]

[juggaloninjalee]

Sting returning to TNA wouldn't be even close to comparing to Rock returning to WWE for a night.

[Bigpapa42]

Sting returning to TNA wouldn't be even close to comparing to Rock returning to WWE for a night.

 

In the minds of those who run TNA, its probably equal. Which unfortunately says a few things by itself.

 

How the WWE did 21.2.11 and how TNA is doing this clearly illustrate the difference between the two companies. TNA seems to feel the need to hype everything, which basically nullifies situations when hype actually is appropriate. TNA needs to learn the value of subtlty. I realize that a lot of people were choked that the 21.2.11 hype only turned out to be the return of the Taker, but those ads had people talking. A lot.

[juggaloninjalee]

In the minds of those who run TNA, its probably equal. Which unfortunately says a few things by itself.

 

How the WWE did 21.2.11 and how TNA is doing this clearly illustrate the difference between the two companies. TNA seems to feel the need to hype everything, which basically nullifies situations when hype actually is appropriate. TNA needs to learn the value of subtlty. I realize that a lot of people were choked that the 21.2.11 hype only turned out to be the return of the Taker, but those ads had people talking. A lot.

 

I agree about TNA needing to stop trying so hard.

 

Imagine if TNA one week had a show with the same amount of talking per say but more focused on an upcoming PPV than fighting right then. TNA seems to book their shows with only that particular show in mind. No foresight it seems and it's really weighing on me as a viewer.

[PeterHilton]

I've read the taping results,and there was only one RETURN.

 

I sincerely hope that is not what they're hyping and that it is some other segment or announcement.

[Bigpapa42]

I've read the taping results,and there was only one RETURN.

 

I sincerely hope that is not what they're hyping and that it is some other segment or announcement.

 

From what I've read about it, its probably not part of the taping. It sounds as if its possible that they will do as video or something similar to end the show, to avoid spoilers. As well, they have apparently had a nasty trend of having the ratings drop during the final quarter of Impact, so this is probably also an attempt to curb that.

[PeterHilton]

From what I've read about it, its probably not part of the taping. It sounds as if its possible that they will do as video or something similar to end the show, to avoid spoilers. As well, they have apparently had a nasty trend of having the ratings drop during the final quarter of Impact, so this is probably also an attempt to curb that.

 

I'm sure you're right. Dixie's not the sharpest crayon in the box, but she's not that bad.

[Fantabulous]

I'm sure you're right. Dixie's not the sharpest crayon in the box, but she's not that bad.

Ever the optimist, eh?

 

From PWI:

 

Dave: First, let me say that when TNA makes claims like this I ALWAYS take it with a grain of salt because they seem to have a different idea of shocking surprises than I do (since I tend to think that they should actually shock and surprise you). With that said, while not confirmed by TNA I have heard from two sources that Sting has re-signed with the company. It would not surprise me if he is somehow part of or is the big surprise. I have been told that he will be brought back in a big role, so I expect something along the lines of him challenging Jeff Hardy for the TNA Title. Since TNA creative lives on the internet, I guess this would qualify as "shocking" to them since "so many people" thought Sting was going to WWE. If they really want to make it shocking, do a live cut-in from the Impact taping in Fayetteville, NC. That will give it a big time feel, especially if they do a title change right then and there.

 

Mike: All I know is that when I ask people in the company about Sting, they are very tight-lipped. They won't admit that he has signed a new deal but they won't say he's gone either. I bet Dave is on the right trail.

 

Sting returning is kind of a big deal but if that's all it is, it's the usual overinflated hype from TNA. Although if they did do the live cut-in deal and change the title, that would be a big deal

[PeterHilton]

Ever the optimist, eh?

 

I was actually speaking about the fact that ODB returns tonight. I was saying that there's NO WAY Dixie would hype her return.

 

If it's Sting, it wouldn't surprise me in the least.

 

 

Specifically, it would make me feel like "yes she's this oblivious" but she's not dumb enough to hype up the aforementioned returnee.

[Wrestling Century]

So is Desmond Wolfe just completely done with wrestling? I hope not, as he could've become a british version of Kurt Angle.

 

So is Desmond Wolfe gone from TNA?

[Jaysin]

Dixie tweeted a month or so ago that Wolfe should be returning soon. But then they cut out the footage of him and Magnus saving Doug Williams from Immortal. So I don't know.