The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[Hyde Hill]

careful with that premise if you want to trumpet the 1.14 as a huge accomplishment.

 

Following the logic back, the difference between the meh 1.0 and the WOOOO!! 1.4 is a whopping 30,000 people or so.

 

I'm hoping TNA is on an upswing so WWE will step it's game up to counter instead of staying hte course, but so far i'm not seeing much evidence of that.

 

They need to hold there ratings and improve over time, not struggle to return to the 1.1 they were pulling last year before the absolutely atrocious monday night experiment.

 

Ehm if 0.05 = 14k then 0.4 the difference would be 8 times 14k which comes out at 112k people not 30k.

[Slagaholic]

Possible Hard Justice Spoiler: TNA is trying to make RVD vs Jerry Lynn happen one last time

[Hyde Hill]

On the possible spoiler: Lol seems I am prophetic still isn't Abyss vs RVD a lot more logical.

[eayragt]

It's not a Hard Justice spoiler. Not if they want the Main Event to actually sell the PPV. Sometime in the future, not as the Main Event, perhaps.

[Slagaholic]

If I'm TNA I say **** buyrates. They aren't going to be going up any time soon. Just try to put on entertaining main events.

[eayragt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Slagaholic" data-cite="Slagaholic" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>If I'm TNA I say **** buyrates. They aren't going to be going up any time soon. Just try to put on entertaining main events.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> But... the wrestling industry is all about selling PPV's. Not good wrestling. Not a hardcore fanbase. Not TV viewers. All of them feed into the real fundemental target - buyrates.</p>

[Stennick]

I agree but TNA has a different set up. Spike PAYS them for their television shows. They would make it more profitable for them to run television specials than it would to pay for a live pay per view broadcast thats not being bought anyway.

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="eayragt" data-cite="eayragt" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>But... the wrestling industry is all about selling PPV's. Not good wrestling. Not a hardcore fanbase. Not TV viewers. All of them feed into the real fundemental target - buyrates.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Maybe if they put on a better TV show people would be more apt to buy their PPV's.</p><p> </p><p> However, what you is saying is right as well because that is where TNA make their money because they do not charge to get into their TV events. Therefore, PPV buyrates and Merch are where they need to make their money.</p>

[eayragt]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Stennick" data-cite="Stennick" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I agree but TNA has a different set up. Spike PAYS them for their television shows. They would make it more profitable for them to run television specials than it would to pay for a live pay per view broadcast thats not being bought anyway.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> TNA have got it got with two wealthy backers - the owners and the Network. If either of them were to go they might just survive.</p><p> </p><p> Of course, put on significantly profitable PPV's and you can survive on your own merit. I like that business model.</p>

[Slagaholic]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="eayragt" data-cite="eayragt" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>TNA have got it got with two wealthy backers - the owners and the Network. If either of them were to go they might just survive.<p> </p><p> Of course, put on significantly profitable PPV's and you can survive on your own merit. I like that business model.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Except if either of them leave how do you expect to let people know when your PPVs are?</p><p> </p><p> TNA doesn't need PPVs. The idea that wrestling is a business that needs PPV to succeed is not true.</p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Maybe if they put on a better TV show people would be more apt to buy their PPV's.<p> </p><p> However, what you is saying is right as well because that is where TNA make their money because they do not charge to get into their TV events. Therefore, PPV buyrates and Merch are where they need to make their money.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> TNA get most of their money from SpikeTV, Merch, and International deals. Not PPV.</p>

[Stennick]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="eayragt" data-cite="eayragt" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>TNA have got it got with two wealthy backers - the owners and the Network. If either of them were to go they might just survive.<p> </p><p> Of course, put on significantly profitable PPV's and you can survive on your own merit. I like that business model.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If the owner of TNA decides to leave then TNA is no more. Jeff Jarrett is going to pick up the 80 percent or whatever it is that Dixie owns? Fact is if Panda goes so does TNA. There is no business model out there to protect you from your owner pulling the plug on the business. Thats like saying my business that I own needs a better business model so if I decide to leave it can still exist. </p><p> </p><p> As far as Spike, if they pull out their screwed anyway. How would you let people know when your ppv's are? Why would you pay for pay per views when you don't even have a television to promote the pay per views? Its not like people are beating at the door to take on TNA programming to where as the WWE has at this time three separate media umbrella's broadcasting television shows. </p><p> </p><p> I like the business model of making money now and growing a fan base rather than losing money on pay per view every year. Without an owner for your business and without a television product to push your media oriented business you don't have a business no matter what model you come up with.</p>

[Basmat01]

I agree but TNA has a different set up. Spike PAYS them for their television shows. They would make it more profitable for them to run television specials than it would to pay for a live pay per view broadcast thats not being bought anyway.

 

it would still end up being cheaper for Spike to pay TNA for two hours of TV a week then have to pay for two one hour tv shows

[Hyde Hill]

it would still end up being cheaper for Spike to pay TNA for two hours of TV a week then have to pay for two one hour tv shows

 

Huh? That was not being discussed at all. The discussion is if at this time it is preferable for TNA to switch to more television specials ala clash of champions/Saturday Night Main Event or stick with 12 ppv's. And yeah ppv's are not a large part of TNA's income at this moment nor will they be in the near future. The notion that you have to be fully ppv focused is an antiquated one. Even the E gets more or near the same out of their television rights deals at this time.

 

Anyway on the ECW stuff I am kind of ambiguous I like the idea behind the storyline and am curious about the execution. But once we get to the stage of matches I do not see many good ones coming of it especially if they are not Hardcore. Plus I would not like to see any TNA talent lose these matches, which would lessen the effect of the storyline if the TNA talent always win.

 

And in the long-term apart from RVD and to a lesser extent Dreamer and Rhino I do not see anyone in the ECW camp who can actually give a rub unless they feud with the under-card.

[LoganRodzen]

And in the long-term apart from RVD and to a lesser extent Dreamer and Rhino I do not see anyone in the ECW camp who can actually give a rub unless they feud with the under-card.

 

Richards wouldn't really be able to help anyone popularity wise, but the guy is a really good worker whose dedicated. He could make a lot of TNA guys look good in terms of selling. I just don't like the idea that Hard Justice is going to be an all-ECW type of PPV. They're trying to build a brand for themselves, but now they bring in these guys who they can only get so much out of until it's dead.

 

They need to focus on themselves and not try to go after viewers that are more or less already watching TNA.

[Hyde Hill]

Richards wouldn't really be able to help anyone popularity wise, but the guy is a really good worker whose dedicated. He could make a lot of TNA guys look good in terms of selling. I just don't like the idea that Hard Justice is going to be an all-ECW type of PPV. They're trying to build a brand for themselves, but now they bring in these guys who they can only get so much out of until it's dead.

 

They need to focus on themselves and not try to go after viewers that are more or less already watching TNA.

 

Yeah but that is/are one/some the big question(s) eh. Who is watching and /or spending money on TNA and why, who is not watching/spending money on TNA and why not and what could make them watch it/spend money, who is not aware of TNA and what would make them aware and what would make them watch it/spend money?

 

Reportedly the results of the survey TNA did suggested that the ECW brand still had value and fans that where not watching might be persuaded to watch TNA if something was done with said brand.

[PeterHilton]

I'm stunned people still don't get that TV is more important to TNA than PPV is.

[Stennick]

People have been trained by the WWE for 25+ years now to think of pro wrestling and pay per view as the same unit.

 

If anything if TNA ran these "specials" for FREE the same night as a WWE ppv it might actually help draw in a new audience.

[Slagaholic]

If TNA ran a TV special head to head with an inferior WWE PPV card it would be a huge help. It would also be a way maximize the name value for all of their former WWE talent.

[PeterHilton]

People have been trained by the WWE for 25+ years now to think of pro wrestling and pay per view as the same unit.

 

If anything if TNA ran these "specials" for FREE the same night as a WWE ppv it might actually help draw in a new audience.

 

If TNA ran a TV special head to head with an inferior WWE PPV card it would be a huge help. It would also be a way maximize the name value for all of their former WWE talent.

 

Totally agree. I "discovered" WCW when I was 10 or so and they ran the first Clash of Champions the same day as WWF's Summerslam. I was so blown away by the noticeably more intense ring work that I made it a point to follow them after that.

[sheepy]

Don't know if this is being mentioned but apparently Tommy Dreamer has been given free reigns to put together the Hard Justice ppv.

 

It'll probably be a flop due to most of the ECW guys being over the hill now but this is definately the kind of move I want to see. No idea if he's got what it takes as a booker but its good to see a new face being given the chance to run the show.

 

Hope this may be the start of something with Bischoff and Hogan still in charge in the background but getting new creative ideas from new sources.

[TheEdgeOfReason]

Don't know if this is being mentioned but apparently Tommy Dreamer has been given free reigns to put together the Hard Justice ppv.

 

It'll probably be a flop due to most of the ECW guys being over the hill now but this is definately the kind of move I want to see. No idea if he's got what it takes as a booker but its good to see a new face being given the chance to run the show.

 

Hope this may be the start of something with Bischoff and Hogan still in charge in the background but getting new creative ideas from new sources.

 

Interesting. Is this just as it pertains to that angle or the entire show? Hopefully he gets its in the build up too, wouldn't make sense for it to be a one night thing.

[sheepy]

Interesting. Is this just as it pertains to that angle or the entire show? Hopefully he gets its in the build up too, wouldn't make sense for it to be a one night thing.

 

Entire show from the sounds of it. Wouldn't be suprised if Hard Justice gets 50% of Impact dedicated to building to it with the other 50% being used to build to the next PPV. That way they can keep the TNA fans sweet with not becoming all ECW this, that etc but also allows them to build to the PPV.

 

Hopefully they'll also use the event to re-ignite a couple of already played out feuds (Samoa Joe vs. Kurt Angle in an anything goes match, could be fun to see those two go at it again and this could be the event to get them in the ring again without making it seem like their old feud)

[Stennick]

<p>Here what f4wonline.com had to say about TNA's recent ppv buys as well as how many illegal ppv watchers were out there. </p><p> </p><p> </p><blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="25170" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It is believed that TNA Wrestling's May and June pay-per-view events, Sacrifice and Slammiversary, drew approximately 8,000 buys apiece. The gross sum per event would total to approximately $111,000 for the company, though that is before the expense of running a live pay-per-view event is factored in.<p> </p><p> By comparison, TNA drew in the neighborhood of 25,000 to 30,000 pay-per-view buys when iMPACT! was airing at 11 p.m. on Saturday nights. And when World Championship Wrestling was on its death bed, the company was still garnering approximately 40,000 buys per pay-per-view.</p><p> </p><p> To draw another comparison, illegal live streams of TNA Wrestling pay-per-view events are nowhere near as popular as that of World Wrestling Entertainment and UFC. According to a source in monitoring, there are usually thirty to fifty unique live streams for wrestling pay-per-view events with an average of 1,000 viewers per stream prior to its termination. For last week's Victory Road pay-per-view, there were only five streams across the major live streaming sites — Justin.tv, Ustream.tv and freedocast.com. Victory Road garnered less than 1,500 viewers per stream. Meanwhile, live streams for WWE events are in the triple digits with most averaging 60,000 viewers, and UFC events tend to have live viewers in excess of 200,000.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> If their biggest even of the year is only drawing in 8,000 buys then I think it really is time for them to find another revenue stream. If their only getting 8,000 buys and their pulling a million viewers a week isn't that less than one percent of their audience buying their ppv's? To where as even a poor WWE ppv does what five percent? Around 200,000 buys and around 4 million (on a great week) viewers.</p>

[Slagaholic]

<p>Proof positive that TNA needs to stop running monthly PPVs. 4 PPVs a year Genesis, Lockdown, Slammiversary, and Bound For Glory. Try to convince SpikeTV to allow them to run 8 monthly specials in place of PPVs. Hell if TNA dropped PPVs altogether and went with just specials on Spike they'd be far better off. </p><p> </p><p>

The pro wrestling market has changed since a lot the attitude era. There is now stiff competition every single month on pay-per-view with UFC and the occasional boxing PPV. Wrestling is tailor made for TV, the goal for any company nowadays really should be to get a deal similar to what TNA has with SpikeTV who not only give them a prime time slot but pay them a whole lot of money for the honor.</p><p> </p><p>

When you're the 3rd (and sometimes 4th) choice for PPV buyers in a recession you can't be shocked at poor buy rates. What do you do then? Well you give the fans PPVs for free.</p>

[Hyde Hill]

If it is true, the non stream part, then yeah. Thing is with the streams they cannot check from witch country people are watching etc. China for example where the E is active and TNA is not yet.