The Official TNA / Impact / GFW Discussion Thread

[cappyboy]

I actually watched last week's Impact... well most of it. I turned off after the pretty damned cool AJ/Flair/Joe verbal confrontation. In my defence, I genuinely thought that was the end of the show.

 

Agreed. That should have been the ending. When I was debating characters a while back, this is one of the reasons I agreed with the guy that Joe's needs more juice. When he does have a moment that should be high drama, that fact gets cut off at the knees. AJ is the world champion. If he's having a confrontation with a former best friend who's upset over his personality, that should trump all as far as show placement goes. To turn that into a false ending does Joe no favors. You have two men who've held THE TNA belt whose friendship has collapsed and are getting to a massive clash over said belt because they can no longer get along. And somehow the Hogan stuff is more important? That is the kind of junk thought that leads to questions as to whether a Hogan/Bischoff directed TNA will be worth the time in the long term.

 

1) Where's Sean Morley?

 

Good question. Of the "lesser lights" that got brought in by Hogan, he's definitely my favorite. I wasn't so sure about the producer gimmick but I was willing to ride along because it seemed like a natural career evolution for him and it explained his card game with The Beautiful People so well. Heck, the right relationship between Morley and TBP could have really shaken up the Knockout division by turning TBP face and having their perennial targets go heel when they lacked sympathy for the abuse Morley was putting Madison and Velvet through. Maybe Lacey Von Erich could have been the in-story springboard for Morley's introduction to the girls. Using him as a weapon to destroy them from within for not having the blue blood she does.

 

2) Why does Orlando Jordan have the same gear and haircut as The Pope? If they're trying to make Pope into a star, they shouldn't have a doppleganger dress exactly like him.

 

I don't get why they have him at all. I know who Orlando Jordan is. But because I do, that means I don't get Who The Heck he is. Jordan isn't somebody you bring in with any fanfare. He isn't someone I would even have considered bringing in at all. The dude is a nobody. And the Pope is right. He does look like Whoopi Goldberg on testosterone.

 

3) I like Mr. Anderson. He's such a colossal jerk.

 

Gotta disagree here He wants to be a colossal jerk. But that's his problem. He merely wants to be. I know what his gimmick is supposed to be. But the gimmick I always get off of him is that of a poser. He wants to be Road Dogg. He wants to be The Rock. He wants to be Michael Buffer. He wants to be world title material. He wants to be a colossal jerk. He wants so badly to be all these other things it's painfully obvious that the last thing he wants to be is the one thing that would help him be all these things. He wants to be anything and everything other than himself.

 

It's sort of like the negative version of how I see AJ Styles or Eric Young. You can say all you want that AJ's current gimmick is that of Ric Flair's protege and that Eric Young's is leader of World Elite/Social Climber. Both those are just sub-gimmicks to me. AJ's gimmick that I respond to is Rags To Riches. Up by the bootstraps as it were. And in that context, this new sub-gimmick works better than if you see it as his only gimmick. He's fully blossomed into the champion of a company that's fully blossomed and he's trying to revel in the fact by associating himself with a master champion and a master partier in Ric Flair. Not quite understanding or appreciating as Joe and Daniels and others try to remind him that he got to this mountaintop by his own blood, sweat and tears. By being the hungry AJ he's set aside. Without the long term gimmick as framework, I can see why this current Styles wouldn't work for people. But AJ's not used to holding a belt quite as valuable as he has now so I can see how that would go to his head.

 

With Young, the long term gimmick I respond to and embrace is Self Improvement. He's gone from self-conscious comedy joke to snippy young rebel to champion who's credible enough to run his own crew and consult with the big guns. Taken by itself, Eric's Social Climbing Stable Leader gimmick may seem totally incompatible with his skills and lead people to wonder why the company bothers with him. But treated as a sub-gimmick, it's all part of his maturation process. One that's still on-going and you just don't know whether that will lead to him getting to the top or if it will groom him into a gate-keeping company guy. But he appears to be going someplace good for him. As such, there's the possibility at any moment he could decide he's outgrown the need for World Elite and come back to the company fold. We saw last week he now has the confidence to where he can jump in and interject on a legend the stature of Hulk Hogan if necessary in his mind. Where that's going to take him becomes much more compelling if you take the long term view of EY and what his gimmick really is compared to the subgimmick that comprises his surface.

 

If TNA Creative even understands some of the long term gimmicks they have going with guys like AJ Styles and Eric Young, they need to give Anderson a self improvement gimmick like Young has had. Maybe not as dramatic a version. But a rounding into form all the same. Anderson really needs layering if he's to have meaning at the world title level. Otherwise, he's eventually going to be seen through and end up another woulda coulda shoulda guy.

 

Needs more MCMG/Young Bucks action though.

 

Oh definitely. That match was speed wrestling at its coolest. At the rate they are waiting to get the rematch lined up and staged, the Bucks are going to lose all their momentum from that win and folks are going to forget that new Generation Me name. Which would be a shame after the show they put on with the Guns. I get why it's happening. Time of change and all that. But if TNA's not careful. they will be wondering how they missed out on these guys after they put being in the right place at the wrong time behind them.

[Hive]

plz warn if you are going to spoil some of us like surprises. Best to put them in white text using colors and then say highlight to read like so:

 

This is a spoiler

 

My bad, I thought last night's Impact went out live.

[Self]

I see what you mean about Kennedy. I haven't watched enough to get the full picture. I liked his promo with Angle, putting his arm around Christie, but maybe if I saw more I'd agree with you.

 

... and because I'm bored; how I would have booked Young Bucks vs MCMG.

 

Week 1: Young Bucks beat MCMG. Guns clearly underestimate them and are caught with pants down.

Week 2: Young Bucks beat MCMG again. Longer, more competitive.

Week 3: Alex Shelley beats Matt Jackson

Week 4: Chris Sabin beats Nick Jackson... if they can do it in singles, surely...

PPV: Young Bucks beat MCMG again, live on PPV. What the hell?

 

From there, you have the MCMG confused and irritated, stumped as to how these two little buggers are so AWESOME as a team. Even more awesome than they are. MCMG on commentary for Bucks squashing X-teams. Throw in a 6-man tag somewhere. MCMG going on pre-taped road trips to the Jacksons' home town, to discover their roots (both teaching us who Matt & Nick... sorry... Max and Jeremy... are, while doing comedy). Eventually, MCMG start attacking, run ins, cheating. Being actual heels. 10 minutes per Impact... tops.

[alden]

From what i understand sheely is hurt and that is why the guns are not on the show right now. As for generation next *get use to it people * i have no idea. I love the guns though. they are such a great tag team but i really see the x guys being pushed to the side .

[jesterx7769]

I liked when Sabin was on his own competing for the X division title and I thought Shelly as the paparazzi was great and it seems like his charisma carry's Sabin's lack of. I saw Shelly live twice and he is the most live charismatic worker I have ever seen (includes Jericho who lots of people credit) his playing to the crowd, actions, facial expressions, all when he isnt even in the ring, everything is awesome. Just wish he was bigger size wise so he could main event.

 

But i know MCMG have gotten over and lots of people like them, thats just my personal preference

[cappyboy]

I see what you mean about Kennedy. I haven't watched enough to get the full picture. I liked his promo with Angle, putting his arm around Christie, but maybe if I saw more I'd agree with you.

 

... and because I'm bored; how I would have booked Young Bucks vs MCMG.

 

Week 1: Young Bucks beat MCMG. Guns clearly underestimate them and are caught with pants down.

Week 2: Young Bucks beat MCMG again. Longer, more competitive.

Week 3: Alex Shelley beats Matt Jackson

Week 4: Chris Sabin beats Nick Jackson... if they can do it in singles, surely...

PPV: Young Bucks beat MCMG again, live on PPV. What the hell?

 

From there, you have the MCMG confused and irritated, stumped as to how these two little buggers are so AWESOME as a team. Even more awesome than they are. MCMG on commentary for Bucks squashing X-teams. Throw in a 6-man tag somewhere. MCMG going on pre-taped road trips to the Jacksons' home town, to discover their roots (both teaching us who Matt & Nick... sorry... Max and Jeremy... are, while doing comedy). Eventually, MCMG start attacking, run ins, cheating. Being actual heels. 10 minutes per Impact... tops.

 

Dude, you should cobble this together as a TEW storyline. I'm sure folks would love to to play it out in their games.

[thommohawk]

Engaged my brain... and I still don't see the comparison. Hate Cena all you want (I'm no huge fan), but the guy is easily the most recognizable active wrestler in terms of mainstream exposure. Non-fans recognize him. Whereas the Nasty Boys are a moderately successful (four notable title reigns) tag team that hasn't been consistently active in a major promotion for nearly 15 years. See why I think there's a bit of difference there? And if having a couple of appearances on Hogan Knows Best makes the Nasty Boys "stars", then I would argue a 10-second cameo for McGuiness/Wolfe plus being the champion for 18 months of the third biggest wrestling promotion in the US does the same.

 

Dude you still owned yourself, attempt spin all you like it just doesn't compute mate....all you're doing is proving my point. I said Cena sucks like the Nastys do and yet they are both name talent in the business as compared to say McGuiness (Wolfe), they were the only comparisons I made between the two. And I'll say it again as much as I love Desmonde Wolf (or Nigel McGuinness) he is not a name talent in the business because he doesn't yet have star power like Cena and the Nasty Boys do.

 

Am I saying the Nastys are as over as Cena these days or ever ? Hell no. But even a 5 year old can work that out and realize that's not what I was saying....

[jwt13]

Dude you still owned yourself, attempt spin all you like it just doesn't compute mate....all you're doing is proving my point. I said Cena sucks like the Nastys do and yet they are both name talent in the business as compared to say McGuiness (Wolfe), they were the only comparisons I made between the two. And I'll say it again as much as I love Desmonde Wolf (or Nigel McGuinness) he is not a name talent in the business because he doesn't yet have star power like Cena and the Nasty Boys do.

 

Am I saying the Nastys are as over as Cena these days or ever ? Hell no. But even a 5 year old can work that out and realize that's not what I was saying....

 

Do u like trying to start arguments really you keep saying the same stuff even after people have told you why what you are saying is wrong so just post no more if you think your always right please. I mean this is a unbiased fourm just cause someone dosn't agree with doesn't mean you jump on the border line insulting them. OK? You got? Good

[cappyboy]

Do u like trying to start arguments really you keep saying the same stuff even after people have told you why what you are saying is wrong so just post no more if you think your always right please. I mean this is a unbiased fourm just cause someone dosn't agree with doesn't mean you jump on the border line insulting them. OK? You got? Good

 

You know man, I'm going to play both sides here. I agree he's wrong. But not for the reasons everyone's been trying to shout him down with. The flaw he's got going for him is that neither Cena or the Nasty suck as badly as people tend to want to believe. Are any of them all that great in the cold in-ring sense of the term? Not in the least. But they aren't asked to be. Cena, Knobbs and Saggs all do what's asked of them well enough that I'm not going to complain about it. If anything, I'd be more upset if the Nastys WERE perceived to be any good in the ring. It'd be a case of "Why have they been stuck with such a crap gimmick all these years when they are so much above it?"

 

But at the same time, I understand why he's so worked up. He's been saying all along that both Cena and the Nastys were big names. Nowhere have I seen him suggest that the Nastys were AS big as Cena. That I agree would be lunacy. But as far as what he actually said, he's right. The Nastys are a big enough tag team that your wrestling knowledge has to be really limited to have not heard of them at least in passing. And the analogy of the Nastys to Wolfe is right on too. The Nastys have been the Nastys for more years than some of us on this board have been alive. Wolfe hasn't been going by Wolfe for six months yet.

 

All that said, Brother Thommohawk, you do really need to chill out. Even if a few people on a message board are misreading you and trying to set you straight where you don't need it, it's not worth getting worked up about it. The best of us do it. I've been guilty of it myself on occasion. But the negative energy is ultimately a waste. If you feel the need to keep nursing and rehearsing this situation, maybe you could try doing it by re-reading what you wrote to start all this mess and see if you might make it translate more clearly. That would be more constructive than continuing to stick up for yourself at this point.

[Hyde Hill]

I've been guilty of it myself on occasion

 

Ken Anderson? Although you don't rant as soon as his name comes up you have to point out you don't like/rate him for some reason lolz. (Intended as joke not criticism)

[jesterx7769]

Cappy, JW, I just added him to my ignore list I dont need to see cussing and name calling in a childish abusive manner time after time.

 

Was anyone else dissapointed by the big news conference though? I was expected them to throw in at least something small since the move to Monday nights was far from a secret to anyone thats been remotley following them since Hogan took over.

[PeterHilton]

The flaw he's got going for him is that neither Cena or the Nasty suck as badly as people tend to want to believe.

 

Oh no..the Nastys really are that bad.

 

In their prime, they were an acceptable midcard brawler tag team that didn't bring anything to the table, but certainly didn't embarass themselves out there.

 

But that was literally decades ago.

 

RIGHT NOW every second they are on TV is an insult to the viewing audience. Moreso than Bubba the Love Sponge they are an example of Hogan stacking the card with his friends for his own selfish purposes.

 

Remember this when they beat Morgan & Hernandez for the tag belts.

[dvdWarrior]

Oh no..the Nastys really are that bad.

 

Maybe it was just me, but both the Nasties look REALLY out of shape... Knobs looked like he was about to have a stroke during a promo...

 

[Hyde Hill]

Yeah and their promo work has been the "highlight" so far. That match and the beat downs they did where horrible, just horrible. And bringing them in because they are/where a known tag team is not reason enough when you already have team 3D could easily get the James gang again as well as the Steiners and you have the Outsiders. All of them ( even Hall) better workers and names then the nasties. Not to mention the fbi, impact players hell even the Bashams.

[Bigpapa42]

But at the same time, I understand why he's so worked up. He's been saying all along that both Cena and the Nastys were big names. Nowhere have I seen him suggest that the Nastys were AS big as Cena. That I agree would be lunacy. But as far as what he actually said, he's right. The Nastys are a big enough tag team that your wrestling knowledge has to be really limited to have not heard of them at least in passing. And the analogy of the Nastys to Wolfe is right on too. The Nastys have been the Nastys for more years than some of us on this board have been alive. Wolfe hasn't been going by Wolfe for six months yet.

 

I understood he wasn't trying to say they were necessarily on equal levels of "big". My point was simply that on a scale of "notability" of workers, there is a massive gap between where John Cena is and where the Nasty Boys are (and ever were). The Nasty Boys are a whole lot closer to McGuiness than Cena. As for having "heard of them in passing", the exact same arguement could be made for McGuiness - any fan with any knowledge outside of the big two promotions should have heard of him before TNA (18 months title reign for #3 promotion in US, etc).

 

I guess my issue is that if you are going to call the Nasty Boys "big stars" based on midcard status of 15 years ago, then pretty much anyone who appeared with much regularity on the WWE or WCW in the past 15-20 years gets the label. And I have issue calling the likes of Marcus Bagwell or Marc Mero "big stars", at least within the same context of some of the more over workers of a given generation.

 

It would be like saying Stone Cold Steve Austin and Koko B Ware were both big stars...

[cappyboy]

Oh no..the Nastys really are that bad.

 

In their prime, they were an acceptable midcard brawler tag team that didn't bring anything to the table, but certainly didn't embarass themselves out there.

 

But that was literally decades ago.

 

RIGHT NOW every second they are on TV is an insult to the viewing audience. Moreso than Bubba the Love Sponge they are an example of Hogan stacking the card with his friends for his own selfish purposes.

 

Remember this when they beat Morgan & Hernandez for the tag belts.

 

Sorry dude. But you're not convincing me. I haven't seen anything that suggests to me they are really laboring that badly. Now maybe I'm being a mite generous and making allowances because I don't expect them to be in perfect condition and they are holding up more like I'd expect considering how long they've been away from the marquee level. Or it could be because they've always taken guff for sucking even in that prime when they were " an acceptable midcard brawler tag team that didn't bring anything to the table, but certainly didn't embarass themselves out there" as you put it. Or them representing a time I found more consistently enjoyable than the decade we just left.

 

All I know is I found it a lot more insulting to my intelligence that I was thought to want interviews being done by someone as tedious as Bubba The Love Sponge. The dude was alright on Hogan's celebrity wrestling show. But that was a goof. A guy like Bubba who's a bit of an acquired taste fit in that marginal scene. But why anyone would think he'd fit a nationally televised promotion not named ECW is beyond me. The Nasty Boys are about as far removed from their prime as the industry as a whole is from the Attitude era. Which is the only time having a guy like Bubba around would have made lamentable sense to me

 

The Nastys can still serve something of a positive purpose even if they are there by cronyism. They have knowledge of how to survive at the upper echelons of the biz despite not being terribly special to pass on. If they are willing to of course. Provided they don't linger or upstage too much modern talent, I'm okay with that. I'll even take that title victory over Morgan and Hernandez you threaten as long as it's a transitional move. Morgan and Hernandez are quite frankly slumming it at this point and shouldn't be wasting their time on tag belts. Leave those for the full time units like the Motor City Machine Guns and Beer Money. Morgan and Hernandez should both should be jockeying for position to get at AJ Styles. If getting them back on that track takes the Nastys standing in the gap while management decides on a long term championship team, so be it. Makes as much sense as lumping a couple main eventers who are just about completely made into a midcard tag title scene.

 

Now don't go crazy and think I am or have ever been a huge Nasty Boys fan. Your description of their prime pretty much hit it on the head. But as a short term band aid in what is hopefully their last run, I'll take them on my screen. Especially if it keeps insomnia aids like Mr Anderson. and Orlando Jordan off. If the Nastys are still around in the fall, my standards for where they ought to be will most likely rise considerably. But I'm not going to waste my energy on that until I have to. For now, they are short term attractions and I will treat them as such. Lessened expectations and all.

[PeterHilton]

Sorry dude. But you're not convincing me. I haven't seen anything that suggests to me they are really laboring that badly. Now maybe I'm being a mite generous and making allowances because I don't expect them to be in perfect condition and they are holding up more like I'd expect considering how long they've been away from the marquee level. Or it could be because they've always taken guff for sucking even in that prime when they were " an acceptable midcard brawler tag team that didn't bring anything to the table, but certainly didn't embarass themselves out there" as you put it. Or them representing a time I found more consistently enjoyable than the decade we just left.

 

 

Yeah, I think you answered your own points.

 

I don't make allowances for an act that I wasn't that interested in when they were in their prime. And I don't really see them as representing a better period in wrestling.

 

I don't see them as a benefit because the fact that they're going to go over any of the teams on the roster will send a negative message. Both backstage to the wrestlers who have to put over those two (now) talentless mounds of goo and to the fans watching. Because there's really no way to convince me that the number of 'Nasty Boys-nostalgia fans' outweigh the number of people who see them as an utter joke.

 

Also..I may have missed it, but what do you think of Ken Anderson? You're being a little subtle imo

[cappyboy]

I understood he wasn't trying to say they were necessarily on equal levels of "big". My point was simply that on a scale of "notability" of workers, there is a massive gap between where John Cena is and where the Nasty Boys are (and ever were). The Nasty Boys are a whole lot closer to McGuiness than Cena. As for having "heard of them in passing", the exact same arguement could be made for McGuiness - any fan with any knowledge outside of the big two promotions should have heard of him before TNA (18 months title reign for #3 promotion in US, etc).

 

And now I think you're exaggerating more to try and defend your point than he was. The Nastys in their prime were champions in their tag division multiple times over. At a time when wrestling in general was much more visible in general than it is now. That alone would put them at equal distance from Wolfe as it would Cena. Your attempt to make the case for Wolfe/McGuinness is all well and good. But you touched on a key factor just by reverting to his indy name. He's now under a name that bears no relation to the one that "any fan with any knowledge outside of the big two promotions" would know. And he's only had this current handle for a handful of months. Therefore having to stop and ask if he really is him or just looks like him would be perfectly rational behavior.

 

And that's not even to mention the difference between what being the number 3 promotion now and during the Nastys prime even means. When the Nastys were at the top of their game, that number 3 promotion was either on an easily accessible channel a la Global or strongly syndicated like ECW was. RoH may be the number 3 company but they are on a comparablyfringe station in HDnet. Heck, you can make the case that TNA being on Spike makes them less visible as the number 2 today than the number 3 was when the Nastys were regular title material.

 

Then there's the little factor that despite main eventing with Kurt Angle a few times that Wolfe/McGuiness is only just starting to build his national resume and has yet to put a belt of any kind on it. Not saying Wolfe isn't good or isn't eventually going to be a marquee star on a consistent basis. I have every confidence he will. He certainly has the skill set to ultimately eclipse Knobbs and Saggs. But his stature has yet to even approach that of the Nastys. I appreciate you're trying to get this line of discussion in balance. That's a good thing and I applaud that impulse. But it's not really necessary in this siutation to demonstrate absurdity by being absurd yourself.

 

I guess my issue is that if you are going to call the Nasty Boys "big stars" based on midcard status of 15 years ago, then pretty much anyone who appeared was much regularity on the WWE or WCW in the past 15-20 years gets the label. And I have issue calling the likes of Marcus Bagwell or Marc Mero "big stars", at least within the same context of some of the more over workers of a given generation.

 

It would be like saying Stone Cold Steve Austin and Koko B Ware were both big stars...

 

And I'd agree with that idea. I'd have no problem calling a Bagwell, Mero, or Ware a big star in the same breath as I referenced an Austin or Cena as such. Would Austin or Cena or whomever be vastly bigger? Certainly. And I'd make sure I clarified that point if it were necessary. But while guys like Bagwell, Mero and Ware may have been mostly midcarders in their time, they were midcarders on bigger platforms than anybody not in WWE has today. The same would go for the Nastys. Perhaps even more so considering the titles they held and how often they were in contention for them.

 

I understand where you're trying to go and I sympathetize with the spirit of what you're saying. But it's apples and oranges. Times are different now. The industry's weaker and visibility outside of WWE has declined dramatically. That has to be taken into account if any point on the topic is be truly pointy.

[Slagaholic]

Spoiler Alert

TNA is going to start a bisexuality angle involving Orlando Jordan, a dude, and a gal.

[alden]

That was only one "segment" their has been no evidence that it is a storyline yet.

[Bigpapa42]

And I'd agree with that idea. I'd have no problem calling a Bagwell, Mero, or Ware a big star in the same breath as I referenced an Austin or Cena as such. Would Austin or Cena or whomever be vastly bigger? Certainly. And I'd make sure I clarified that point if it were necessary. But while guys like Bagwell, Mero and Ware may have been mostly midcarders in their time, they were midcarders on bigger platforms than anybody not in WWE has today. The same would go for the Nastys. Perhaps even more so considering the titles they held and how often they were in contention for them.

 

I understand where you're trying to go and I sympathetize with the spirit of what you're saying. But it's apples and oranges. Times are different now. The industry's weaker and visibility outside of WWE has declined dramatically. That has to be taken into account if any point on the topic is be truly pointy.

 

Yes, I am exaggerating. And yes, factors like the name change and that the #3 spot is no longer as important or big are involved. But I'm exaggerating because I feel like the fact that the Nasty Boys have been utterly irrelevant in the wrestling business for well over a decade is being relatively ignored.

 

It is apples and oranges indeed. I've always felt that context matters. It matters when you are applying labels. When you go "big picture" when applying those labels, they lose their value. When virtually every worker in the WWE or TNA is called a "big star" because, when compared to all the unknown indy workers out there, its true... it becomes facetious and without value. And if Kurt Angle and Amazing Red are both "big stars", how do you then differentiate between their value to TNA?

 

Anyway, its obviously just different perspectives.

[Slagaholic]

That was only one "segment" their has been no evidence that it is a storyline yet.

 

Apparently they're already recruiting others to create a faction.

[jesterx7769]

It's pretty clear they are trying to be "Cool and edgey" since WWE is very PG so it doesnt surprise me, doesn't really dissapoint me either as I dont put it past them...is that bad?

[alden]

I am a little surprised givin spikes audience. Unless they are going to try to put him over as a heel ala chuck and billy.

[Bigpapa42]

It's pretty clear they are trying to be "Cool and edgey" since WWE is very PG so it doesnt surprise me, doesn't really dissapoint me either as I dont put it past them...is that bad?

 

Another shot-work storyline, given Jordan's rumored (is it just rumored?) predilections... If it was done well, I'd have no issue with it, really. But I think its a tough kind of storyline to do well...