The Official ROH Discussion Thread

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MightyDavidson" data-cite="MightyDavidson" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>That doesn't mean I want to see him, though I'll admit one thing: the Kingdom doesn't annoy me half as much as the crap with Bubba Ray. This isn't Attitude Era WWE Bubba Ray, crawl into the dustbin of history and stop trying to pretend you're anything but a guy who had the good fortune to ride the coattails of the Hardy Boyz and Edge and Christian.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> How you feel about Bubba is how I feel about the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega. I just wish they would go away and stay in NJPW. I have never gotten the appeal and why they have such a rabid following. They all come across as very lame to me.</p>

[cappyboy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>How you feel about Bubba is how I feel about the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega. I just wish they would go away and stay in NJPW. I have never gotten the appeal and why they have such a rabid following. They all come across as very lame to me.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Oh amen. Any time Omega shows up on my screen, I fast forward. Not having any kind of decent access on New Japan, I consider anything involving him or the larger machinations of Bullet Club to be none of my business. I am totally incapable of relating and I just want to get on with Ring of Honor business. I may like individual members of the group. Always loved Cody. Been an Adam Page fan from his first day in RoH. But as a whole, Bullet Club annoys me. They are over my head and I'm just supposed to love them too much because "Everybody Else" does. The only good thing about Bullet Club in RoH is that if I ever go to a show I know which segments to use for snack bar runs and bathroom breaks.</p>

[CQI13]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Crazy R-Truth's conspiracy gimmick had quite a bit of merit. He was insanely talented and the crowd loved him, yet he was used so unevenly.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Was that Little Jimmy?</p>

[Jaysin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="CQI13" data-cite="CQI13" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Was that Little Jimmy?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Little Jimmy was part of it yeah.</p><p> </p><p> </p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="113" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/Mcjf0HqPJws?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="Raw: R-Truth trashes a WWE merchandise stand"></iframe></div></div><p> </p><p> </p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="113" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/YnEVL4gqGP8?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title="Raw: R-Truth reasserts his belief in a conspiracy against him"></iframe></div></div>

[K-Nection]

So All In just sold out in an hour that is pretty impressive!

[The Final Countdown]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="K-Nection" data-cite="K-Nection" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>So All In just sold out in an hour that is pretty impressive!</div></blockquote><p> It is indeed impressive. Huge accomplishment by those guys, especially Cody and the Bucks since they were really at the forefront of it all.</p>

[Bigpapa42]

Said this on another site, but I'm really curious where this goes. Very possible its a one-time deal, or maybe a couple of events they run every so often. But would love if this somehow led Cody down the path of being a promoter and looking to start a new promotion.

[The Final Countdown]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Bigpapa42" data-cite="Bigpapa42" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Said this on another site, but I'm really curious where this goes. Very possible its a one-time deal, or maybe a couple of events they run every so often. But would love if this somehow led Cody down the path of being a promoter and looking to start a new promotion.</div></blockquote><p> Cody seemed to rule out the idea of becoming a full-fledged promoter a few weeks back on Twitter. I forget exactly what he said, but it was something along the lines of "I watched my dad waste millions trying to make that work."</p><p> </p><p> I think it's for the best too. They were able to pull this off because they've been building up to it for many months, if not a full year, using their social media presence (and seriously, the Bucks have figured out how to self-promote and use those platforms to make money better than anyone else in wrestling) to set this up as a can't-miss event that people feel like they have to be a part of. But running a full-time promotion is an entirely different animal. Even periodically coming in for a few shows a year can be tough, as New Japan are currently learning with their Cow Palace show.</p><p> </p><p> MAYBE this could become an annual show, but anything more than that would probably not be a good idea. Unless the buzz of this show catches the attention of a TV network willing to throw some serious cash their way, in which case all bets are off.</p>

[Jaysin]

<p>Best in the World didn’t live up to its name, but it was a fun show. </p><p> </p><p>

Punishment Martinez is terrible though. Why he’s a champion is beyond me.</p>

[Warhawk8492]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Best in the World didn’t live up to its name, but it was a fun show. <p> </p><p> Punishment Martinez is terrible though. Why he’s a champion is beyond me.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I liked Best In The World, and Punishment is better than Roman by a mile.</p>

[Jaysin]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Warhawk8492" data-cite="Warhawk8492" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I like Best In The World, and Punishment is better than Roman by a mile.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Punishment Martinez is trash. Looks like a goof ball and the red face paint made him look even worse.</p><p> </p><p> Hangman dragged a decent match out of him, but Punishment is nowhere near Roman’s level or hell, anyone on WWE’s roster’s level either. </p><p> </p><p> Anything that happened before Aries and King was horrible. </p><p> </p><p> Kingdom continue to be trash. Rockstar Supernova is the dumbest double team I’ve seen. He literally just set his hand on the guy’s shoulder. Bunch of goobers.</p><p> </p><p> LIJ’s appearance was wasted on The Kingdom being their opponents. </p><p> </p><p> Enjoyed Aries vs King, Lethal vs Kushida, Young Bucks vs Briscoes, and Dalton vs Cody vs Marty were all good. Everything else is skippable. Especially the Women of Honor.</p>

[cappyboy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div><p> </p><p> Punishment Martinez is terrible though. Why he’s a champion is beyond me.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I don't know about terrible period. But he certainly is a terrible fit for the promotion. Guy is as sports entertainment as it comes. Martinez in RoH makes almost as little sense as Kazarian in TNA did.</p>

[milamber]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Punishment Martinez is trash. Looks like a goof ball and the red face paint made him look even worse.<p> </p><p> Hangman dragged a decent match out of him, but Punishment is nowhere near Roman’s level or hell, anyone on WWE’s roster’s level either. </p><p> </p><p> Anything that happened before Aries and King was horrible. </p><p> </p><p> Kingdom continue to be trash. Rockstar Supernova is the dumbest double team I’ve seen. He literally just set his hand on the guy’s shoulder. Bunch of goobers.</p><p> </p><p> LIJ’s appearance was wasted on The Kingdom being their opponents. </p><p> </p><p> Enjoyed Aries vs King, Lethal vs Kushida, Young Bucks vs Briscoes, and Dalton vs Cody vs Marty were all good. Everything else is skippable. Especially the Women of Honor.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Shame about Women of Honor but I saw on Twitter that Oedo Tai got a decent pop so that makes me happy.</p>

[milamber]

I just watched the women's tag match and it was solid. They did the best they could with the 10 minutes they were given. The announcers put them all over and the crowd really got into it. It's time for ROH to stop being tentative and promote the division more heavily.

[BHK1978]

Nah Punishment Martinez is beyond horrible. He has a stupid name and he is terrible in the ring. Especially considering he made his in-ring debut in 2004. You would think someone who has been in the industry that long would at least be halfway decent.

 

I was reading the results of the show Friday night (I saw the show last night) and I was shocked to see that Punishment was the Television Champion. I thought it was a typo, sadly it was not (I have not watched ROH television in a couple of months). It sucks even more seeing him retain the title.

 

I wonder if the reason the WOH are not all that over is because Emma is the only nationally "known wrestler" here in America. I personally do not care about Japanese wrestling and I wonder if the casual fans are more like me.

 

Therefore, when you populate a match with a bunch of Japanese wrestler's I just sort of stop paying attention because I do not know who any of them are. I do not know their backstories or anything else about their characters. I am not sure if any of them could speak English but production could always give them interview time and put subtitles at the bottom of the screen. That way the fans could relate to them better.

 

Also, they could hire better looking women. I am not saying all of the women were ugly, they were mostly average looking and there is nothing wrong with that. However, men make up the vast majority of your audience and I think most men, being more visually attracted, would end up wanting to see really good looking women wrestle.

[cappyboy]

I wonder if the reason the WOH are not all that over is because Emma is the only nationally "known wrestler" here in America. I personally do not care about Japanese wrestling and I wonder if the casual fans are more like me.

 

Therefore, when you populate a match with a bunch of Japanese wrestler's I just sort of stop paying attention because I do not know who any of them are. I do not know their backstories or anything else about their characters. I am not sure if any of them could speak English but production could always give them interview time and put subtitles at the bottom of the screen. That way the fans could relate to them better.

 

Also, they could hire better looking women. I am not saying all of the women were ugly, they were mostly average looking and there is nothing wrong with that. However, men make up the vast majority of your audience and I think most men, being more visually attracted, would end up wanting to see really good looking women wrestle.

 

I'm not sure there is one simple answer to this. Greater name power might help but how much of that is there to go around on the U.S. scene? And besides, even the most recognizable woman in the division isn't using the name she'd be best recognized under. Instead merging the name of a 70's pop icon with the first family of high literary romance to become Tenille Dashwood. So not even she is using that strength to maximum advantage. Now I know. Probably legal reasons behind that more than anything else. But despite continuing the Jane Austen connection, how well recognizable as "Emma" is "Tenille"? Would her WWE fans make the connection? I never watched her there so I can't answer that.

 

And while I can see that greater sex appeal certainly wouldn't hurt, I think that's a bit of an overgeneralization based on the WWE, sports entertainment fan's mindset. A natural mistake to make given that those are the most visible wrestling fans in our culture. An overgeneralization that's dangerous in how it lets other points slide.

 

Like yours about the Japanese women and how much they are leaned on. Your point about not relating to them reminds me of my issues on the men's side with stables like Bullet Club and most especially my beef with Kenny Omega. Most of what goes on with them that relevant to anything happens on the other side of the ocean and I have no reliable means of getting invested in those events. So it's all second hand garbage and a distraction from talent I know (or want to). So I'm more likely to fast forward past that stuff and seek out other matches than I would members of the main roster.

 

And here's another thought for you. Does the Women Of Honor division even have all the fans willing to support women's wrestling behind them? I certainly enjoy watching the women and there are several WoH I like. But at the same time, there's another tournament and segment of the roster I've been badly missing this year. That being Top Prospect. Growing up in the "syndie" days, I got to see all this great indie talent when. Back before they'd built their names. Every year I look forward to see the Top Prospect tournament, seeing men I never have before and getting to know at least one as a regular afterward. At least one because sometimes guys who lost in the tourney will still step up and become meaningful a la Beer City Bruiser, Punishment Martinez and even world champ, Dalton Castle. This year no such luck because of the spotlight being given to the Women of Honor. Which has me torn as a fan. I like the women and enjoy their matches. But I also like seeing the undercard guys and Top Prospects too. So it's kind of frustrating that getting more of one means losing the other. I'm not wealthy enough a fan to spend time and money on DVD's or extended packages like Honor Club. So what I can see on TV every week is it for me.

 

Heck, my attachment to Top Prospect is part of why I've been so into the Kingdom conspiracy storyline. I see how Matt Taven is the only tourney winner of note still with the company. How visibly one whole Prospect final aka War Machine left the company and their in character beef having been similar to Taven's. There's a lot in my head as a fan which tempers my enthusiasm for the Women of Honor. And knowing the greater maturity and awareness of the RoH fanbase, I would be stunned if this were "No, Cappy. That's just you" scenario.

[Rone Rivendale]

Also, they could hire better looking women.

 

Get the Network and watch Bra and Panties matches during the Attitude Era. I think that's more YOUR speed.

[milamber]

Talent sharing is nothing new. ROH do it themselves with the NJPW guys although they are much more well known than the women. That being said, 3/4 of Stardom's streaming subscriptions are overseas (I'm Australian and subscribed a few months back) and gifs of matches are all over twitter so the most knowledgable ROH fans will have at least a basic understanding of who these Japanese women are. Impact are keeping themselves alive by using half the AAA/Lucha Underground roster. The problem is not the women but that they aren't getting enough exposure. As for the Top Prospect tournament, they have regular events and a taped TV show so no reason they can't focus on homegrown undercard talent as well.

[BHK1978]

Get the Network and watch Bra and Panties matches during the Attitude Era. I think that's more YOUR speed.

 

 

I mean honestly, you can pretend that women's looks do not matter and you can virtue signal all you want but at the end of the day sex sells. Men do like to see good looking women it is a simple fact.

 

For women it is the same thing as well. There is a reason why John Cena is over with the women more than with the men and it is because he is a classically good looking guy. Do the women go nuts for Braun Strowman? I am sure some do but for the most part women want to see good looking guys, just as much as men want to see good looking women. There is nothing wrong with that, it is just human nature.

[Jaysin]

<p>Spoiler in white below pertaining to the recent batch of ROH TV tapings. If quoting or replying, please return the courtesy so those who do not want spoilers won't have anything ruined.</p><p> </p><p>

<span style="color:#FFFFFF;">So Dalton Castle retains against Cody Rhodes and Marty Scurll, then loses to Jay Lethal in a fatal fourway also involving Cody and Marty. What in the blue Hell? I know Dalton is beat up, but if that was the plan, why not either put Jay in triple threat at Best in the World or have Marty/Cody win the belt to give Dalton a break and they could feud with Jay until Dalton is 100%. I'm very baffled why they had a title change hands on a TV taping instead of a live PPV.</span></p>

[evileddie10]

Always been more of a casual ROH viewer, but I just heard ROH/NJPW are doing a show at MSG on April 6th (The day before WrestleMania!). That seems like a massive statement to me. Might need to watch ROH a bit more frequently.

[Blackman]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I am sure some do but for the most part women want to see good looking guys, just as much as men want to see good looking women. There is nothing wrong with that, it is just human nature.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> It's quite true. If you look at the CaW mode in wrestling games, most people tend to make their female CaW's attractive and their male CaW's badass (quite like Strowman).</p><p> </p><p> If you get to pick between two equally talented workers and one looks better, you take that one. That's a no-brainer.</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="evileddie10" data-cite="evileddie10" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Always been more of a casual ROH viewer, but I just heard ROH/NJPW are going a show at MSG on April 6th (The day before WrestleMania!). That seems like a massive statement to me. Might need to watch ROH a bit more frequently.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I was surprised when I saw this yesterday because I had read a couple of weeks ago that WWE was trying to stop ROH from holding shows there. I say good for ROH sticking it the WWE (that is unless WWE stopped pressuring MSG, then that would be WWE decided to not stop ROH).</p>

[Jaysin]

I’m going to attempt to go to the MSG show if tickets aren’t outrageous. It’s right around my birthday, so might just do a mini vacation in New York.

[dvdWarrior]

<p>I could have sworn WWE had already put the cabash on that ROH show at MSG. I definitely remember being righteously indignant in WWE's general direction over it. If that's not the case, and the show is indeed a go, then cool. Here's hoping for an awesome show! </p><p> </p><p>

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