The Official ROH Discussion Thread

[cappyboy]

<p>One thing that's really bugging me about RoH lately is the handling of the TV show. I don't want to see matches from the "lesser" PPV's on the TV show unless it's absolutely necessary. Say Kevin Kelly and Corino get food poisioning and can't do commentary for a show or two so you fill in with the Road Rage edition while they shake it off. That's fine. I'll take that. but the thing is they only have the one hour of TV time a week. So I'd prefer to see fresh, original action as much as possible and just live with the fact the only way I can see the matches from the anniversary show or Supercard of Honor is to order the DVD. They seem to have retained most of this year's Top Prospect field and I'd like to see more of those guys building themselves up like a Matt Taven got to rather than having those opportunities set aside for matches from PPV's just past. </p><p> </p><p>

Also, maybe it's just me but the Inside Ring of Honor segment has been real conspicuous in its absence the last few months. That segment always made the company feel bigger. Like there was more going on than just what was on the TV show for action that week. Was that a Cornette thing and the new booker hates it? What happened to Inside Ring of Honor?</p>

[Hashasheen]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Final Countdown" data-cite="The Final Countdown" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>And here's the New York card:<p> </p><p> </p><p> Elgin/Okada, Young Bucks/reDRagon and Nakamura/Steen all sound awesome. But...Tanahashi vs. <strong>Bennett</strong>? Really? THAT's the best you can do?</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Coming out for Bennett after the improvements he's made since 2012.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<p>If anyone's interested this week's ROHtv shows Steen/Elgin from the NOLA show my ROH MOTY right now</p><p> </p><p>

<a href="http://www.rohwrestling.com/tv/current" rel="external nofollow">http://www.rohwrestling.com/tv/current</a></p>

[The Final Countdown]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Hashasheen" data-cite="Hashasheen" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Coming out for Bennett after the improvements he's made since 2012.</div></blockquote><p> Don't get me wrong; Bennett has grown on me over the past couple of years, and I appreciate what he brings to the table. I just think it's a waste for him to be the opponent in what may well be Tanahashi's only ROH singles match ever.</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="cappyboy" data-cite="cappyboy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>One thing that's really bugging me about RoH lately is the handling of the TV show. I don't want to see matches from the "lesser" PPV's on the TV show unless it's absolutely necessary. Say Kevin Kelly and Corino get food poisioning and can't do commentary for a show or two so you fill in with the Road Rage edition while they shake it off. That's fine. I'll take that. but the thing is they only have the one hour of TV time a week. So I'd prefer to see fresh, original action as much as possible and just live with the fact the only way I can see the matches from the anniversary show or Supercard of Honor is to order the DVD. They seem to have retained most of this year's Top Prospect field and I'd like to see more of those guys building themselves up like a Matt Taven got to rather than having those opportunities set aside for matches from PPV's just past.</div></blockquote><p> I often wonder why they do it myself. I mean what the heck kind of business model is that anyway?</p><p> </p><p> I do not buy their pay-per-views because I know that some of the matches from the show will be shown on free television within a couple of weeks. Granted the matches are edited but I really could care less about that. </p><p> </p><p> I know their are some diehards that will say that they buy the pay-per-views in order to support a small company. Well that is all fine and good but that is something I will never do. If I can get something that was on pay-per-view for free and it is legal, well then I simply will not buy their pay-per-views and I would think there has to be more people who think the same way I do.</p>

[cappyboy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="BHK1978" data-cite="BHK1978" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I often wonder why they do it myself. I mean what the heck kind of business model is that anyway?<p> </p><p> I do not buy their pay-per-views because I know that some of the matches from the show will be shown on free television within a couple of weeks. Granted the matches are edited but I really could care less about that. </p><p> </p><p> I know their are some diehards that will say that they buy the pay-per-views in order to support a small company. Well that is all fine and good but that is something I will never do. If I can get something that was on pay-per-view for free and it is legal, well then I simply will not buy their pay-per-views and I would think there has to be more people who think the same way I do.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Indeed. If this were a company like WWE or WCW we were talking about and this were happening on a Livewire or WCW Pro, that would be one thing. Using past matches to put the current storyline in context is a classic B show function. But in a company like RoH where you have limited TV time, you need as much of that as possible for getting guys over so they can sell your PPV's. So if it's too easy to get the full PPV matches on regular TV after the fact you're burning your candle at both ends. And that can only be done so long before you burn yourself out.</p>

[BHK1978]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="cappyboy" data-cite="cappyboy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Also, maybe it's just me but the Inside Ring of Honor segment has been real conspicuous in its absence the last few months. That segment always made the company feel bigger. Like there was more going on than just what was on the TV show for action that week. Was that a Cornette thing and the new booker hates it? What happened to Inside Ring of Honor?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I forgot to mention that I agree with this as well. When they used to do the Inside Ring of Honor segments it reminded me of what the WWF, Global, and ECW used to do. They would run these interviews with their talents and it would sell the product.</p>

[fullMETAL]

It might be worth mentioning that AJ Styles won the IWGP Heavyweight Title at this past week's NJPW event.

[Basmat01]

<p>I just watched the breaking kayfabe with Jim Cornette video from Kayfabe Commentaries and he talks about his time with ROH. he gets the "I hate Vince Russo" rant out of the way early lol </p><p> </p><p>

Trailer:</p><p>

 

</p><div class="ipsEmbeddedVideo"><div><iframe width="200" height="113" src="https://www.youtube-nocookie.com/embed/Z0Nc7b8ZZ70?feature=oembed" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="" title=""></iframe></div></div>

[The Final Countdown]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="fullMETAL" data-cite="fullMETAL" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It might be worth mentioning that AJ Styles won the IWGP Heavyweight Title at this past week's NJPW event.</div></blockquote><p> Relevant because it now means w'ere getting AJ defending against Elgin and Okada wrestling Cedric Alexander. I'm sure it'll be a really good show and all, but an ROH/NJPW supershow headlined by AJ Styles wrestling Michael Elgin for the third time this year is just weird. I think they'd have been better off sticking with Elgin vs. Okada even with no title involved.</p>

[1234]

<p>It really seems NJ don't see these shows as that big a deal. Tanahashi and now Okada in smaller matches, which I don't expect to be classics. Liger and Kushida challenging for the ROH titles instead of bigger names. Seems Nakamura is the only NJ big name that may be putting on a big match against Steen (or Cole).</p><p> </p><p>

And how does Roderick Strong not get a match against someone from NJPW?</p><p> </p><p>

Bizarre booking.</p>

[The Swanton825]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="1234" data-cite="1234" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>It really seems NJ don't see these shows as that big a deal. Tanahashi and now Okada in smaller matches, which I don't expect to be classics. Liger and Kushida challenging for the ROH titles instead of bigger names. Seems Nakamura is the only NJ big name that may be putting on a big match against Steen (or Cole).<p> </p><p> And how does Roderick Strong not get a match against someone from NJPW?</p><p> </p><p> Bizarre booking.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Why should they? This is an event that I doubt anyone in Japan will even see. ROH may be the #3 promotion in America, but that means next to nothing these days. Even with declining attendance, Wrestling Dontaku still drew more than double ROH's average. I would be surprised if New Japan sees this as anything other than stupid gaijin promoters willing to shell out ridiculous amounts of money for men no one in America, outside hardcore smarks, even know about.</p>

[1234]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Swanton825" data-cite="The Swanton825" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Why should they? This is an event that I doubt anyone in Japan will even see. ROH may be the #3 promotion in America, but that means next to nothing these days. Even with declining attendance, Wrestling Dontaku still drew more than double ROH's average. I would be surprised if New Japan sees this as anything other than stupid gaijin promoters willing to shell out ridiculous amounts of money for men no one in America, outside hardcore smarks, even know about.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I'm not saying its a huge event for NJ, but its a good opportunity for exposure that I feel is being somewhat wasted. New Japan obviously want exposure in the States (They have done their own shows in the past, and now working with ROH), and I felt this could be a good opportunity to put on two huge cards to get atleast the internet talking.</p><p> </p><p> Even give us that one match that could be a new Joe/Kobashi and the excitement would be off the charts. The tickets sold out before any matches were announced, but the anticipation has cooled off completely following the announcements (and even more now with Elgin/Styles instead of Okada).</p><p> </p><p> While I feel most ROH fans are probably already familiar with New Japan, I still felt they could have converted some fans across with bigger matches, but I can't see Bennett/Tanahashi convincing anyone to check out New Japan shows.</p><p> </p><p> Its just too much New Japan protecting their guys. Its not just having big stars in matches they will (should) win, but them being soft matches. Bennett/Tanahashi and Okada/Alexander wont be classics, and seem like rest matches for those guys. And Liger, although legendary, should not be in the ROH title match. Fair enough if they didn't want Tanahashi/Nakamura losing to Cole, but someone like Naito/Goto/Suzuki couldn't do it?</p>

[The Swanton825]

I honestly don't understand how this gives New Japan any more exposure than just running their own shows. ROH doesn't exactly have more fans in America, considering most ROH fans are New Japan fans as well. If anything, running shows with ROH hurts their chances for exposure since the show is at the Hammerstein, a place better for preaching to the choir than reaching a new audience.

[cappyboy]

Hey guys could I get your all's perspective on something please? It seems I have the RoH Facebook page against me at the moment. I was expressing my dismay that Kyle O'Reilly's getting a World Title shot on the current RoH TV. I just really don't like the guy and haven't found him the least bit interesting since the beef between him and Davey Richards quit being about the two of them. And the way the page rushed to defend Kyle, it has me wondering if I'm the only RoH viewer who's just tired of O'Reilly.

 

Oh and BTW, no. I don't like Bobby Fish either. No Red Dragon for me thank you.

[Big Roguey]

Hey guys could I get your all's perspective on something please? It seems I have the RoH Facebook page against me at the moment. I was expressing my dismay that Kyle O'Reilly's getting a World Title shot on the current RoH TV. I just really don't like the guy and haven't found him the least bit interesting since the beef between him and Davey Richards quit being about the two of them. And the way the page rushed to defend Kyle, it has me wondering if I'm the only RoH viewer who's just tired of O'Reilly.

 

Oh and BTW, no. I don't like Bobby Fish either. No Red Dragon for me thank you.

 

Having went and seen the page it's hardly a case of having the entire page against you. I have to disagree with you on this manner as well, Kyle O'Reilly is on the best run of his career right now. Both him and Bobby Fish are good in-ring workers whilst being as charismatic as hell on promos. Another thing to consider is that a shot at the belt =/= a run with the belt. Elgin doesn't really have much challengers so why not let one half of the current tag team champions step up and try to win the big one? If they were terrible, they wouldn't be tag team title contenders let alone champions.

[Jaysin]

In a world of vanilla midgets, Kyle O'Reilly is the most vanilla. Nothing about him as ever stood out to me. I love Bobby Fish though. Super entertaining.

[Teh_Showtime]

Kyle O'Reilly is one of my favorites out there today. He's been beyond awesome in PWG the last year plus and redragon are consistently good. He's not really interesting if he's not cutting promos with Fish (I think he's really good as Bobby's backup in promos). Inside the ring though he has really come into his own and along with Ricochet are the two guys who have improved the most over the past 12-15 months.

 

Getting a title shot though? I hate that so many people get a shot at the ROH title for no reason in general. I remember Taven got a shot at Adam Cole a few months ago despite being in a feud with Truth who turned on him after he lost the TV title and failed multiple times to regain it

 

In fact that feud is STILL going on and Taven vs Lethal will be in a cage match that nobody cares about. The way you feel about KOR is how I feel about Matt Taven, he offers nothing at all.

[cappyboy]

Having went and seen the page it's hardly a case of having the entire page against you. I have to disagree with you on this manner as well, Kyle O'Reilly is on the best run of his career right now. Both him and Bobby Fish are good in-ring workers whilst being as charismatic as hell on promos. Another thing to consider is that a shot at the belt =/= a run with the belt. Elgin doesn't really have much challengers so why not let one half of the current tag team champions step up and try to win the big one? If they were terrible, they wouldn't be tag team title contenders let alone champions.

 

All well and good and from a booking logic sense I certainly get it. Like I said on Facebook, I certainly don't doubt either Fish or O'Reilly in the ring. Both guys can clearly go. But I think we'll have to agree to disagree on the charisma thing. I've never gotten why I should care about anything Kyle or Bobby's had to say since the Wolves left and even when they were still around it was only Kyle I gave a darn about. Fish felt like a needless distraction to me. Since then, there have been times even recently I was amazed Kyle knew which end of the mic to speak into and the next time Fish says anything compelling will likely be a first for me. I'd rather sit through a Ron Greenhorn promo than have to listen to Bobby Fish. Maybe this is an Anderson or Jeff Hardy case where the rest of the world gets it and I don't. I don't know. But for my money, the ring posts have more charisma than Red Dragon.

[Hashasheen]

I sometimes think people mistake being able to talk intelligibly or shout for charisma/intensity. Half the ROH guys couldn't cut a decent promo if they attended seminars run by Austin, Rock, Flair & Hogan.

[cappyboy]

I sometimes think people mistake being able to talk intelligibly or shout for charisma/intensity. Half the ROH guys couldn't cut a decent promo if they attended seminars run by Austin, Rock, Flair & Hogan.

 

Definitely agree. I hear the notion of this guy or that guy having charisma being thrown around in wrestling discussions like this and I'm often shaking my head in confusion. Because I can't help thinking that if I were to meet and talk shop with someone like a Jim Cornette or a Kevin Sullivan, someone experienced at booking at the highest levels, they'd tear apart the average Internet fan's concept of charisma. Not sure about your half of RoH figure. But I'll forgive that exaggeration as it bolsters the key point of how muddy and subjective defining charisma can be.

[The Final Countdown]

I feel like this is at least the 3rd time we've had this discussion about Kyle.

 

He's not a great talker by any stretch, but he's grown on me since he started teaming with Fish. I wouldn't put the world title on him, but I think he's a perfectly credible guy to challenge for it. Especially given how thin they are on top of the card.

[BHK1978]

I feel like this is at least the 3rd time we've had this discussion about Kyle.

 

He's not a great talker by any stretch, but he's grown on me since he started teaming with Fish. I wouldn't put the world title on him, but I think he's a perfectly credible guy to challenge for it. Especially given how thin they are on top of the card.

 

Yeah and I am the one who has brought it up the two previous times.

 

Cappyboy you are preaching to the choir when you talk about the blandness that is Kyle. I do say that I have soften my stance on his since being paired with Bobby Fish (Who I think is great) but he still does irk me.

 

I also agree with what Hashasheen said as well in that I do not think the majority of the ROH roster can cut a decent promo. Then again that is not really what the promotion pushes anyway, it is more about the in-ring action. Though I would love to see some of their guys do better on the microphone.

[Rone Rivendale]

There is a difference between charisma and mic skills, don't you guys play TEW?

[cappyboy]

 

I also agree with what Hashasheen said as well in that I do not think the majority of the ROH roster can cut a decent promo. Then again that is not really what the promotion pushes anyway, it is more about the in-ring action. Though I would love to see some of their guys do better on the microphone.

 

I would disagree with that. The fact that promos serve a different purpose in Ring of Honor as compared to a WWE or a TNA has to be taken in mind when you consider judge what a decent promo is. Would I want to see most of the RoH roster on the mic having to draw cheap heat and whip a crowd into a frenzy by words alone? Definitely not. They'd be fish out of water trying that. That's why as an example I hated Frankie Kazarian with every fabric of my being in TNA but am good with him now. Frankie's no longer being inexplicably lauded as a cult figure despite clearly being out of his league as a personality. In RoH, he can project himself just as he is and that can work.

 

RoH is more old school in how they use the mic. Promos typically either build to the next match between guys or promote road shows. You can be understated and less showy and still be effective. A guy like Michael Elgin comes to mind. I wouldn't want to hear him in a gab-heavy environment like WWE but he has projected himself wonderfully on his road to the RoH title.He doesn't pretend to be a showman or try to outscream you. If Elgin's got a mic, he's coming out to give it to you straight and talk turkey. And he does that well. If I'm an RoH sponsor and I'm going to put Elgin in my ad, I'm happy to do that. Especially if being a straightforward, blue collar kind of company is part of the corporate image I'm trying to cultivate for myself. But if I'm a sponsor and you're sending me a guy like Kyle or say a BJ Whitmer, not so much.