The Official ROH Discussion Thread

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MightyDavidson" data-cite="MightyDavidson" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I definitely won't be one of them. I'll stick with promotions that aren't booked by imbeciles thank you.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I mean, I just think it's really sad that they're consenting to turn into a TNA reunion fed, ROH is in a really tough spot, particularly when AEW leapfrog them in October. Who's gonna wanna stay there when guys like Lethal could go get on National TV with a single tweet? I can't say I feel bad. We've waited how long for ROH to get serious? And they've played for 3rd. Well. You get 3rd.</p>

[Warhawk8492]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MightyDavidson" data-cite="MightyDavidson" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I definitely won't be one of them. I'll stick with promotions that aren't booked by imbeciles thank you.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> WWE is booked by imbeciles not ROH.</p>

[milamber]

Word is the bookers were against the Enzo & Cass angle but management went ahead anyway. Cheap way to get attention Mania weekend.

[MightyDavidson]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Warhawk8492" data-cite="Warhawk8492" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>WWE is booked by imbeciles not ROH.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Putting their title on Matt Taven when Jay Lethal and Marty Scrull were in the title match says otherwise. That Taven was in spitting distance of the title at all says otherwise.</p>

[The Final Countdown]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MightyDavidson" data-cite="MightyDavidson" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Putting their title on Matt Taven when Jay Lethal and Marty Scrull were in the title match says otherwise. That Taven was in spitting distance of the title at all says otherwise.</div></blockquote><p> Yup.</p><p> </p><p> ROH is a dumpster fire. Taven winning the title says a lot about the state of that company. I laughed when the ROH announcer was closing the show by talking about the new champions crowned, mentioning Matt Taven in the same breath as Okada.</p><p> </p><p> And Taven winning the title was pretty low on the list of bad things ROH contributed to this show.</p>

[MightyDavidson]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Final Countdown" data-cite="The Final Countdown" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yup.<p> </p><p> ROH is a dumpster fire. Taven winning the title says a lot about the state of that company. I laughed when the ROH announcer was closing the show by talking about the new champions crowned, mentioning Matt Taven in the same breath as Okada.</p><p> </p><p> And Taven winning the title was pretty low on the list of bad things ROH contributed to this show.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Yeah no kidding. I mean, Enzo and Cass AND the Beautiful People getting airtime in 2019? I thought people were pulling my leg when they told me about that on Twitter.</p><p> </p><p> The worst part is, ROH still has a fairly talented roster so if they absolutely HAD to put a third man into the title match (which ought to have been Lethal vs Scrull) you would have had several decent options even without dipping into New Japan's roster. The only reason Taven isn't at the absolute bottom of the list is because the Shinobi Shadow Squad are on the roster and though I do like them, I realize it'd be crazy to have them in a title match.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MightyDavidson" data-cite="MightyDavidson" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah no kidding. I mean, Enzo and Cass AND the Beautiful People getting airtime in 2019? I thought people were pulling my leg when they told me about that on Twitter.<p> </p><p> The worst part is, ROH still has a fairly talented roster so if they absolutely HAD to put a third man into the title match (which ought to have been Lethal vs Scrull) you would have had several decent options even without dipping into New Japan's roster. The only reason Taven isn't at the absolute bottom of the list is because the Shinobi Shadow Squad are on the roster and though I do like them, I realize it'd be crazy to have them in a title match.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I didn't have a problem with him being in the match, they've gotta groom some young guys to replace the moves that are going to happen. I don't think 34 guys are going to be enough to run 2hrs of TV and event and touring schedule. So it's very likely that another 15 or so names are still coming for AEW. I have a feeling one of them will be Dashwood, they like Dalton, they like Lethal they like Marty(but he's got NJ commitments). They could be doing this entirely because he's the only top guy they have that they know AEW won't want and think he's young and they can develop him. If that's the thinking, they're in a lot of trouble.</p>

[Jaysin]

Taven is the worst

[Rone Rivendale]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Jaysin" data-cite="Jaysin" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Taven is the worst</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Not when Enzo and Cass are around. <img alt=":p" data-src="//content.invisioncic.com/g322608/emoticons/tongue.png.ceb643b2956793497cef30b0e944be28.png" src="<___base_url___>/applications/core/interface/js/spacer.png" /></p>

[Makhai]

Not when Enzo and Cass are around.

 

Matt Taven vs. Kenny King is your main event... Enzo and Cass are improvements.

[Warhawk8492]

Taven is the worst

 

I will take Matt Taven over Roman Reigns any day.

[MightyDavidson]

Taven is the worst

 

I wholeheartedly agree. I have a LONG list of wrestlers who deserve to have been in the title match rather then Taven, eight off the top of my head before even considering the possibility of using somebody from New Japan instead.

[Warhawk8492]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MightyDavidson" data-cite="MightyDavidson" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>I wholeheartedly agree. I have a LONG list of wrestlers who deserve to have been in the title match rather then Taven, eight off the top of my head before even considering the possibility of using somebody from New Japan instead.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Matt Taven has worked hard for years and finally gets some recognition.</p>

[MightyDavidson]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Warhawk8492" data-cite="Warhawk8492" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Matt Taven has worked hard for years and finally gets some recognition.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Matt Taven is a dull midcarder who doesn't deserve to hold ROH's top title. He was only ever interesting because of other people, like when Truth Martini was managing him or when he was Adam Cole and Mike Bennet's flunky. Otherwise he's bland as anything at best and a fount of go away heat at worst.</p>

[Teh_Showtime]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Warhawk8492" data-cite="Warhawk8492" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Matt Taven has worked hard for years and finally gets some recognition.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> He held the tv title for 280 days...in 2013</p><p> </p><p> And the tag titles after that</p><p> </p><p> He’s been represented plenty...and failed to get over despite it</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="MightyDavidson" data-cite="MightyDavidson" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Matt Taven is a dull midcarder who doesn't deserve to hold ROH's top title. He was only ever interesting because of other people, like when Truth Martini was managing him or when he was Adam Cole and Mike Bennet's flunky. Otherwise he's bland as anything at best and a fount of go away heat at worst.</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I think Taven is fine considering his age and experience level. He's got no business where he is on the card right now though.</p>

[MightyDavidson]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Teh_Showtime" data-cite="Teh_Showtime" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>He held the tv title for 280 days...in 2013<p> </p><p> And the tag titles after that</p><p> </p><p> He’s been represented plenty...and failed to get over despite it</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> And to make things worse, he went over two guys who are exponentially more popular then he is.</p>

[The Final Countdown]

<p>Yeah, I wouldn't say that Taven's even bad. He's not good either though. He's just a guy. I don't have a problem with him being on ROH's roster, but he belongs nowhere near any main event, much less winning the company's top title on the biggest show they'll probably ever run.</p><p> </p><p>

He has to be the worst world champ in ROH history, right? Some long time fans might say Xavier, but I'll take him over Taven without hesitation.</p>

[MightyDavidson]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="The Final Countdown" data-cite="The Final Countdown" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Yeah, I wouldn't say that Taven's even bad. He's not good either though. He's just a guy. I don't have a problem with him being on ROH's roster, but he belongs nowhere near any main event, much less winning the company's top title on the biggest show they'll probably ever run.<p> </p><p> He has to be the worst world champ in ROH history, right? Some long time fans might say Xavier, but I'll take him over Taven without hesitation.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Likewise. Haven't seen to many of his matches but the ones I've seen were generally more fun then anything I've seen from Taven.</p>

[milamber]

Haven't seen much of Taven because I barely follow ROH but he got over with CMLL fans on his recent tour in Mexico. The bookers treated him like a star, though, and he went in with no baggage.

[TheGhost]

<p>As much of a Taven and Kingdom fan I am, I don't know if putting the belt on Taven was the right call.</p><p> </p><p>

With them taking the tag titles off of Villain Enterprises, leads me to suspect Marty is more than likely wrapping up his stay in ROH. I know his contract expires at the end of this month, and with them not putting the belt on him, makes me think he's done.</p><p> </p><p>

But congrats to ROH and New Japan on the show Saturday Night. It was a good show, and everyone involved should be proud.</p><p> </p><p>

Now my countdown begins as I will be there for Masters of the Craft on Sunday in Columbus, very interested to see what the fall out will be on the very first live show after the garden.</p>

[Wrestling Century]

Ooh, I like Taven, but he's a Jeff Jarrett type (who I also liked), a person who should cap out at upper midcard heel who occasionally challenges for the main title. However, if Scurll is indeed leaving, who else other than Lethal is left as a Main eventer? Dalton has never felt like one to me, but even so, ROH squandered him when he had momentum. And I haven't been keeping up for quite a few years, how did Jay Briscoe go back to being a tag team wrestler instead of one of their main guys?

[cappyboy]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Wrestling Century" data-cite="Wrestling Century" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Ooh, I like Taven, but he's a Jeff Jarrett type (who I also liked), a person who should cap out at upper midcard heel who occasionally challenges for the main title. However, if Scurll is indeed leaving, who else other than Lethal is left as a Main eventer? Dalton has never felt like one to me, but even so, ROH squandered him when he had momentum. And I haven't been keeping up for quite a few years, how did Jay Briscoe go back to being a tag team wrestler instead of one of their main guys?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Right there with you with Taven. Outside of a rich family member starting up a promotion a la Jarrett, he's not quite the ideal world champion. Have loved the guy since the mini-feud with Mike Mondo but in an RoH that had handled the last five years properly he would be far better suited to be the guy who challenges for the World Title on TV while you build to the PPV title matches.</p><p> </p><p> Sadly, the RoH we have in 2019 is not that Ring of Honor. It is instead a company that has instead gone leo hunting rather than trust the guys they've built from the ground up. That has had no qualms shunting prospective stars to the side in favor of day trippers and New Japan material people may not relate to or particularly care about. Who've alienated, marginalized or otherwise run off everyone not named Matt Taven that they've given the mantle of Top Prospect to. You look at the RoH story world of 2014 and then jump back to today and it's kind of scary how desiccated the top of the card is right now. But they have no one to blame for it but themselves. They are the ones who made all the mistakes that led them where they are.</p><p> </p><p> One can quibble about Taven as world champ if they want but where are the other options? Lethal's been the ace for quite a while now. Scurll's leaving. And while I may personally find Marty's act wearing at times, I could also easily have fantasy booked him to the world title in a matter that rang true to the RoH spirit. A guy like Silas Young is really strong and has had his shots but feels more like a gatekeeper. Castle took a physical beating in his last reign and in story his mind's all scattered. Your man Jay Briscoe seems to shuttle back in forth between world and tag titles and is portrayed as being too wild to risk putting the title on at the moment. Thanks to the last four or five years, the cupboard's kind of bare. For the foreseeable future, the only way they're going to have worthy champs is either recycle them a la Lethal, Castle, and Briscoe or import them like they did with Cody Rhodes. </p><p> </p><p> Right now, the most telling guy on that roster for me is Shane Taylor. Is RoH going to botch things with him like they did with your Cedric Alexanders and Donavon Dijaks or is he going to get the chance to ascend like Adam Cole did? They really need for it to be the latter. Getting Eli Isom right would be good as well. But for now, the pressing one is Taylor.</p>

[Makhai]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="cappyboy" data-cite="cappyboy" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26106" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Right there with you with Taven. Outside of a rich family member starting up a promotion a la Jarrett, he's not quite the ideal world champion. Have loved the guy since the mini-feud with Mike Mondo but in an RoH that had handled the last five years properly he would be far better suited to be the guy who challenges for the World Title on TV while you build to the PPV title matches.<p> </p><p> Sadly, the RoH we have in 2019 is not that Ring of Honor. It is instead a company that has instead gone leo hunting rather than trust the guys they've built from the ground up. That has had no qualms shunting prospective stars to the side in favor of day trippers and New Japan material people may not relate to or particularly care about. Who've alienated, marginalized or otherwise run off everyone not named Matt Taven that they've given the mantle of Top Prospect to. You look at the RoH story world of 2014 and then jump back to today and it's kind of scary how desiccated the top of the card is right now. But they have no one to blame for it but themselves. They are the ones who made all the mistakes that led them where they are.</p><p> </p><p> One can quibble about Taven as world champ if they want but where are the other options? Lethal's been the ace for quite a while now. Scurll's leaving. And while I may personally find Marty's act wearing at times, I could also easily have fantasy booked him to the world title in a matter that rang true to the RoH spirit. A guy like Silas Young is really strong and has had his shots but feels more like a gatekeeper. Castle took a physical beating in his last reign and in story his mind's all scattered. Your man Jay Briscoe seems to shuttle back in forth between world and tag titles and is portrayed as being too wild to risk putting the title on at the moment. Thanks to the last four or five years, the cupboard's kind of bare. For the foreseeable future, the only way they're going to have worthy champs is either recycle them a la Lethal, Castle, and Briscoe or import them like they did with Cody Rhodes. </p><p> </p><p> Right now, the most telling guy on that roster for me is Shane Taylor. Is RoH going to botch things with him like they did with your Cedric Alexanders and Donavon Dijaks or is he going to get the chance to ascend like Adam Cole did? They really need for it to be the latter. Getting Eli Isom right would be good as well. But for now, the pressing one is Taylor.</p></div></blockquote><p> </p><p> I agree with most of this, but I'll cut them a bit more of the blame than you. If you look back at the wrestling scene in 2014, they were the best promotion for young wrestling talent with a history of developing the very best for the next level. You jump back today and the last place you want to be is ROH. You want to be free for Mania weekend, you want to be Will Ospreay or Marty. ROH is still living in a world where they're #2 when that's not the reality and it won't be reality any time soon. They need to stop booking like they're a long-term fed with guys locked down and they need to understand that for the foreseeable future you've got to be much more fluid and much more flexible or they need to expand and get national TV and lock down Jay, Marty, Will, Castle etc now or they won't exist in 2021.</p>

[MightyDavidson]

Right there with you with Taven. Outside of a rich family member starting up a promotion a la Jarrett, he's not quite the ideal world champion. Have loved the guy since the mini-feud with Mike Mondo but in an RoH that had handled the last five years properly he would be far better suited to be the guy who challenges for the World Title on TV while you build to the PPV title matches.

 

Sadly, the RoH we have in 2019 is not that Ring of Honor. It is instead a company that has instead gone leo hunting rather than trust the guys they've built from the ground up. That has had no qualms shunting prospective stars to the side in favor of day trippers and New Japan material people may not relate to or particularly care about. Who've alienated, marginalized or otherwise run off everyone not named Matt Taven that they've given the mantle of Top Prospect to. You look at the RoH story world of 2014 and then jump back to today and it's kind of scary how desiccated the top of the card is right now. But they have no one to blame for it but themselves. They are the ones who made all the mistakes that led them where they are.

 

One can quibble about Taven as world champ if they want but where are the other options? Lethal's been the ace for quite a while now. Scurll's leaving. And while I may personally find Marty's act wearing at times, I could also easily have fantasy booked him to the world title in a matter that rang true to the RoH spirit. A guy like Silas Young is really strong and has had his shots but feels more like a gatekeeper. Castle took a physical beating in his last reign and in story his mind's all scattered. Your man Jay Briscoe seems to shuttle back in forth between world and tag titles and is portrayed as being too wild to risk putting the title on at the moment. Thanks to the last four or five years, the cupboard's kind of bare. For the foreseeable future, the only way they're going to have worthy champs is either recycle them a la Lethal, Castle, and Briscoe or import them like they did with Cody Rhodes.

 

Right now, the most telling guy on that roster for me is Shane Taylor. Is RoH going to botch things with him like they did with your Cedric Alexanders and Donavon Dijaks or is he going to get the chance to ascend like Adam Cole did? They really need for it to be the latter. Getting Eli Isom right would be good as well. But for now, the pressing one is Taylor.

 

I would have been far happier with Taylor getting an out of the blue ROH title win then Taven, to be perfectly honest. They do seem to be giving Kenny King a bit of a push though as he won the Honor Rumble at the Supercard and, if memory serves, actually got a pinfall on Jay Lethal during a tag match. My current hope is that Taven's title win is just a way to transition it onto King, who I can at least tolerate.