Official NFL Discussion Thread

[The Final Countdown]

Tebow to the Broncos. Color me surprised.

[LoganRodzen]

EDIT: HELL YES! WE GOT TEBOW!

 

Really good fit for the Broncos. McDaniels is an offensive mind and will have something for Tebow come week one. They knew if they really wanted him they had to pull the trigger or else some other team would.

[Remianen]

Liking this draft a lot.

 

I could really care less about people who give credit to a system or a coach. You could do the same with Montana and Young. But three years down the line, Tebow to Royal & Thomas could be akin to Warner to Boldin & Fitzgerald. Well, maybe. So Royal moves to X, insert Thomas at Y, with Stokley in the slot. Now, if they get Aaron Hernandez (or OMG Rob Gronkowski) in the 2nd or 3rd or maybe Clay Harbor or Dennis Pitta in the 4th, and Scheffler's spot will be filled.

[Dragonmack]

You know Jimmy Claussen has to be pissed that Tebow went before him. Not to mention how much money he is losing the farther he drops down the draft.

[PeterHilton]

Liking this draft a lot.

 

I could really care less about people who give credit to a system or a coach. You could do the same with Montana and Young. But three years down the line, Tebow to Royal & Thomas could be akin to Warner to Boldin & Fitzgerald. Well, maybe. So Royal moves to X, insert Thomas at Y, with Stokley in the slot. Now, if they get Aaron Hernandez (or OMG Rob Gronkowski) in the 2nd or 3rd or maybe Clay Harbor or Dennis Pitta in the 4th, and Scheffler's spot will be filled.

 

Or he could be a total bust and Josh McDaniels could be out on his ass.

 

Both are distinct possibilities.

[GruntMark]

Or he could be a total bust and Josh McDaniels could be out on his ass.

 

Both are distinct possibilities.

 

/nod

 

Im not sure the Broncos have done what they needed to so far to catch the Chargers in the short term. And that was probably the "easy" way into the playoffs...

 

Also, yay Packers, my NFC team, for being all patient and wrapping up a player they really needed.

[Dragonmack]

ESPN has graded the pick of Tebow at #25 as an F. By comparison they graded the chargers moving up to get Matthews as a C. The only other F they have given so far was Jacksonville's pick at #10

[GruntMark]

ESPN has graded the pick of Tebow at #25 as an F. By comparison they graded the chargers moving up to get Matthews as a C. The only other F they have given so far was Jacksonville's pick at #10

 

Yeah,

 

If I was going to make a "weakest picks of the day" list, JVille should be at the top.

 

Of course...Im thrilled about that.

 

Also, new JETS strategy: collect all the corners. Ever.

[Remianen]

Or he could be a total bust and Josh McDaniels could be out on his ass.

 

Both are distinct possibilities.

 

The same can be said for Bradford (who has no O-line worth mentioning) and Spags (who still doesn't have a defense worth mentioning).

 

You have to remember, this is the same league scouting structure that pegged people like Leaf and Marinovich as first round talents and some kids named Brees and Brady as non-first rounders.

 

I think Tebow pans out far better than a Rex Grossman, for example (picked higher than Tebow btw ). As long as Tom Brady is active, no first round QB should be considered "the real deal" right off the bat and no late round QB should be considered "useless" or "roster fodder" (who's quarterbackin' the Chiefs right now? What round was he taken in?).

 

I like the Tebow pick. Paired with an offensive minded coach, with his intangibles, I like how our future looks.

[GatorBait19]

love the fact Gruden dropped the dumb*** and they picked on Mel's hair lmfao

[PeterHilton]

Also, new JETS strategy: collect all the corners. Ever.

 

The Jets just look loaded.

 

The same can be said for Bradford (who has no O-line worth mentioning) and Spags (who still doesn't have a defense worth mentioning).

 

 

It's not the scouting structure. He just doesn't throw like an NFL QB. I honestly just don't believe that he'll ever be anything more than a below average passer, and for all the VY comparisons...Vince was a much better athlete and scrambler.

 

Timmy looked scattered in the Senior Bowl. I'm going to be stunned (STUNNED!) if he ever pans out.

 

And McDaniels has turned the roster over and made it his own..under some less than spectacular circumstances...if the Tebow Era doesn't pan out he's never going to be given another headcoaching job.

[Stennick]

I'm sorry I don't see Tebow as being the "warner" in the Arizona holy trinity or in the STL holy trinity of Warner, Bruce and Holt. The WR's maybe but Tebow being a super accurate, big game, League MVP, Superbowl QB in the NFL I just don't see that. We could go back and forth all day I don't see it and I see Tim being a very nice guy but a big time bust. Others I'm sure will see it differently and as they say thats why they play the game. Either way if he winds up being great I hope nay sayers can say "yup we were wrong" and if he falls on his face I hope the Tebowites can say "yeah he wasn't that great" although if past experainces are any indication guys like Tebow get a ton of passes "he wasn't in the right system, he wasn't brought in the right way, he wasn't surrounded by the right guys, he's young, etc".

 

Either way Tim's a nice guy he seems to be living his life the right way and with so many guys in the NFL coming into the light as less than honorable people atleast a seemingly good kid got rewarded for being the role model thats talked about so often in pro sports.

 

EDIT: Bradford's O Line really isn't that bad, I can't be bothered to pull up their sacks allowed last season but I'm fairly certain it was the lowest in the organization in a few years, along with Jackson running through huge holes opened up to rack up nearly 1500 yards. I agree thought Josh came in and has basically blown that team up which is fine but if he doesn't replace the franchise QB just drafted three years ago and the best WR on the team in a while with some very quality people and he doesn't get that team turned around he won't last long and he'll be right back in New Englad as an O Coordinator. Bellechick's coaching tree has not panned out well so far with Charlie, Romeo and Josh all achieving unremarkablness so far.

[GruntMark]

The same can be said for Bradford (who has no O-line worth mentioning) and Spags (who still doesn't have a defense worth mentioning).

 

You have to remember, this is the same league scouting structure that pegged people like Leaf and Marinovich as first round talents and some kids named Brees and Brady as non-first rounders.

 

I think Tebow pans out far better than a Rex Grossman, for example (picked higher than Tebow btw ). As long as Tom Brady is active, no first round QB should be considered "the real deal" right off the bat and no late round QB should be considered "useless" or "roster fodder" (who's quarterbackin' the Chiefs right now? What round was he taken in?).

 

Yeah, Brees missed the first round by a whole pick.

 

I think the scouts do a good (but certainly not flawless) job of grading QBs. Very few starters have been pulled out of rounds 3+ in the last five or six years (Schaub and Cassell?).

[Remianen]

ESPN has graded the pick of Tebow at #25 as an F. By comparison they graded the chargers moving up to get Matthews as a C. The only other F they have given so far was Jacksonville's pick at #10

 

Is this the same ESPN that rated Leon Hall better than Darrelle Revis? The ones who also put Drew Stanton, Trent Edwards, and John Beck as better QBs than Kevin Kolb? The same folks who said Pierre Garcon was a "nice" receiver who "could make a team"? Eddie Royal is a "decent slot receiver". Oh oh, here's a good one: Lining up opposite Calvin Pace, OLB Vernon Gholston has a chance to get a lot of sacks in his rookie season. O RLY?

 

I'll say this: Matt Cassel held a clipboard his entire college career (DIDNT EVEN PLAY!). Didn't do too badly after Josh got his hands on him. All Tebow's done is won championships (and a Heisman) in the most competitive conference in all of college football. I'm not too concerned, honestly.

[PeterHilton]

Yeah, Brees missed the first round by a whole pick.

 

I think the scouts do a good (but certainly not flawless) job of grading QBs. Very few starters have been pulled out of rounds 3+ in the last five or six years (Schaub and Cassell?).

 

Nope. Here...let's just re-post something Bill Simmons wrote on ESPN.com this week:

 

Hit a draft-day home run with a quarterback and it's a grand slam. Hit a draft-day home run with any other position and it's a home run. I just know that three levels of "franchise quarterbacks" have been taken in the top three picks since 1998:

 

Level 1 (no way they were missing): Peyton Manning (1), Michael Vick (1).

 

Level 2 (almost definitely weren't missing): Carson Palmer (1), Eli Manning (1).

Level 3 (hopefully weren't missing): David Carr (1), Tim Couch (1), Alex Smith (1), JaMarcus Russell (1), Matthew Stafford (1), Ryan Leaf (2), Donovan McNabb (2), Akili Smith (3), Joey Harrington (3), Vince Young (3), Matt Ryan (3).

 

At the time, you would have bet your life on the Level 1 guys making it (barring injury). You wouldn't have bet your life on the Level 2 guys, but you would have at least asked for odds. You would not have wagered your life on any of the Level 3 guys. Three made it; seven bombed; and Young gets an incomplete. If anything, getting picked that high set those guys up for failure: Expectations skyrocketed; their teams felt obligated to play them before they were ready; and they were asked to do too much too soon. The experts believe Bradford is a Level 2 guy, although it's worth noting that he qualifies -- potentially -- under everything in the previous sentence.

 

Digging deeper, let's say the NFL pressed the reset button, made every QB a free agent, then held a QB lottery for the 32 teams. The top 12 order of preference would look something like this: Peyton Manning (picked first overall); Tom Brady (sixth round); Drew Brees (second round); Philip Rivers (fourth overall); Aaron Rodgers (24th overall); Ben Roethlisberger (11th overall); Mark Sanchez (fifth overall); Matt Ryan (third overall); Eli Manning (first overall); Tony Romo (undrafted); Joe Flacco (18th overall); Matt Schaub (third round).

 

Translation: Drafting QBs is a freaking crapshoot. You're throwing dice. If you miss with a top-3 pick, it's a catastrophe because of the financial hit and the seasons squandered trying to make a bad situation work. (See: Russell, JaMarcus.) The six teams that misfired on Carr, Couch, Leaf, Harrington and the Smiths failed to win a playoff game for at least SIX STRAIGHT YEARS after whiffing on those picks; all six picked in the top 3 of another draft within three years of the whiff; and the seventh team (Oakland) has missed three straight postseasons since whiffing on Russell.

 

So based on the last 12 years of evidence, it's just as likely that Bradford will murder the Rams as save them. Of course, you could have said the same thing about Matthew Stafford last spring … and he made it. That's why St. Louis will take Bradford. Just don't tell me it's a "safe pick" because it's not. The next guy is the safe pick.

 

There's no way to know for sure what's going to happen with Tebow.

[Dragonmack]

Yeah, Brees missed the first round by a whole pick.

 

I think the scouts do a good (but certainly not flawless) job of grading QBs. Very few starters have been pulled out of rounds 3+ in the last five or six years (Schaub and Cassell?).

 

Yeah, talk about one of the biggest draft steals in history! San Diego traded the #1 pick and got the #5 and a 3rd rounder and a player. Atlanta took Michael Vick, San Diego got Landainian Tomlinson and still picked Drew Brees at beginning of second round. And everyone claimed San Diego got robbed when that happened.

[PeterHilton]

I'll say this: Matt Cassel held a clipboard his entire college career (DIDNT EVEN PLAY!). Didn't do too badly after Josh got his hands on him. All Tebow's done is won championships (and a Heisman) in the most competitive conference in all of college football. I'm not too concerned, honestly.

 

C'mon ..let's not be a total fanboy. Tebow won a Heisman in part because of his goal line TDs (that won't happen as much in the NFL ) and he had a lot of exceptional talent that turned 5 yard outs into 45 yard TDs.

 

As a passer..Tebow is nowhere near ready to start in the NFL.

[Stennick]

I think thats where I'm at with it. Tim's not going to be able to run people over and out run people the way he did in college. I would agree that Cassel did well in Josh's system but remember the year before that Brady went undefeated and threw what 52 touch down passes? So the fact that Matt came in and did a good job is evidence that that o line and wr corps were unbelievably great as well as Josh having a good system in place.

 

I'm guessing Tim sits this year though right? He's holding a clipboard and getting to know that offense of Josh's because I don't think he's ready to take a team that is on the verge of playoffs and lead them there with his arm. Take a seat, learn the offense, work on your passing and next year we'll see.

[GruntMark]

Nope. Here...let's just re-post something Bill Simmons wrote on ESPN.com this week:

 

I was more going "if you arent drafted in the first couple rounds you are probably gonna suck" angle. At least, at a greater rate than alot of positions.

 

It only takes one team to decide You Da Man. If all 32 pass on you twice, they probably got it figured out.

 

Ive read first round DTs bust at a greater rate than QBs...so maybe the Rams DID make the safest choice.

[GruntMark]

I don't think he's ready to take a team that is on the verge of playoffs and lead them there with his arm. Take a seat, learn the offense, work on your passing and next year we'll see.

 

If they come out of the gate like they finished up last year, they wont be on the "verge of playoffs" into November.

 

In which case, probably Tebow time.

[randomfreeze]

Denver is the perfect place for Tebow, the high elevation puts him as close to God as possible.

 

Unfunny jokes aside...I'm not a Tebow person...but if you could pick a conference to put him in this would be the one, wouldn't it? Going against these defenses; Chiefs twice, Raiders twice, I don't think the Chargers are as unstoppable as we think, first game @ Jaguars in front of his home fans, home game against Seattle, another against Houston, a game against Arizona. I don't know, the schedule gives him some defenses he should play against and look fine.

 

As a Cowboys fan, I'm excited about Bryant. Also as a Cowboys fan, I don't care about character issues as long as you aren't physically harming people. I think he's got a chance to be the best offensive player in this draft so I don't mind the risk. We needed a lot of things, so I would of been happy with a lot of different people here really.

[Remianen]

I'm sorry I don't see Tebow as being the "warner" in the Arizona holy trinity or in the STL holy trinity of Warner, Bruce and Holt. The WR's maybe but Tebow being a super accurate, big game, League MVP, Superbowl QB in the NFL I just don't see that.

 

Haven't you heard? Neither did anyone else. Or are you not familiar with Kurt's story? Nobody else thought Kurt was that kinda QB either. People don't generally let their franchise QBs play in the Arena League, after all (or bag groceries for a living). It honestly doesn't matter what you think or I think or Peter thinks. What matters is what's in that man's heart. Keep judging the size of the dog in the fight and you'll be surprised many times by the size of the fight in the dog. "The experts" have been dead wrong many many times, for that very reason. Again I say, the same kinds of knocks were made on a kid in the 1979 draft. Three QBs were taken in the first round, all supposedly "prototypical" QBs. Only one QB from that draft is in the Hall of Fame and he was picked in the 3rd round, despite having less than ideal mechanics but off the charts intangibles.

 

*shrug* I take the experts' opinions with a lick (not a grain) of salt. Best part of the draft is going to be Saturday, when the players with the highest value (cost for production) reside.

[PeterHilton]

As a Cowboys fan, I'm excited about Bryant. Also as a Cowboys fan, I don't care about character issues as long as you aren't physically harming people. I think he's got a chance to be the best offensive player in this draft so I don't mind the risk. We needed a lot of things, so I would of been happy with a lot of different people here really.

 

Also a Cowboys fan, also happy about Bryant, also think we have lots of needs to fill..especially on the O-line and in the secondary. Safety, specifically.

[Remianen]

C'mon ..let's not be a total fanboy. Tebow won a Heisman in part because of his goal line TDs (that won't happen as much in the NFL ) and he had a lot of exceptional talent that turned 5 yard outs into 45 yard TDs.

 

As a passer..Tebow is nowhere near ready to start in the NFL.

 

And I suppose it's your assertion that a player who hadn't played the position since HIGH SCHOOL was ready to start in the NFL?

 

Tebow wasn't drafted to start now (we're not the Rams). He was drafted to start 1-3 years down the line. So you might wanna call Scott Pioli and tell him that 1-3 years on the bench learning isn't long enough to make a player ready to be an NFL caliber passer. Oh wait....

[randomfreeze]

Also a Cowboys fan, also happy about Bryant, also think we have lots of needs to fill..especially on the O-line and in the secondary. Safety, specifically.

 

I had basically accepted the fact we would get Taylor Mays a few days ago and I was fine with that. A lot of people had been saying it, but maybe he had some other issues we didn't know about since a few teams with safety needs passed on him and he's still on the board.