Official NFL Discussion Thread

[LoganRodzen]

Vince made big strides last year, the Titans are one of the few teams who has shown a willingness to take a project QB like McNair or Young and develop them over a period of time. The only reason VY played so early on in his career is that Collins was awful the first year he came in, and the fans clamored for a change. His rookie year he got by on his playmaking skills and a lot of luck and parlayed that into an 8-2 record.

 

From there you really can't just hand the reins back to a guy who went 0-6, so he kept playing even though he wasn't really ready and teams were able to expose his flaws. Sitting again the year after really helped him get his head right and restore his confidence.

 

When he got the ball this year he was ready- I watched every Titans game this year and he's twice the QB he was 2 years before, but people already formulated opinions on him. I can see why most opinions didn't change since his stats weren't exactly gaudy (maybe because we had a 2,000 yard rusher!) and he already pulled that routine during his rookie year but if you watched, he was much better. I'll say it now that with Britt, Cook, Gage and CJ out of the backfield we'll have one of the top 5 offenses in the NFL next year. We'll probably still be in the 10-15 range yardage wise because we're a running team first but the Titans WILL be able to throw the ball.

 

Not to mention that VY has the 6th best winning % among starting NFL QBs in the league.

 

Glad to see a Titans fan here on the forum. People definitely overlook what he did last season. I also watched every game last season... even every second of the 59-0 snow blowout. I live in Maine and hate the New England Patriots... I have since I was a kid and that beating didn't help.

 

Britt had a breakthrough (underrated) season in my opinion. The guy made some huge catches as a rookie and the only reason he didn't get much attention is because of our run-heavy offense. I see us taking 55/45 run/pass approach this year. I know Vince can make the throws because the games last season you can see that he looks around in the pocket before thinking to run. Sitting out and basically learning that the NFL is a privilege helped him as a player and a person.

 

I've been a scrambling QB fan for as long as I can remember - it's just exciting football. I was a follower of the Falcons (NFC South) and Titans (AFC South)... it's strange I know. I live in New England but I love southern teams. I was really upset when Mora Jr was fired by the Falcons... and then Petrino came in and had the most embarrassing coaching season ever. I even think that season is worse than the Lions 0-17 run because Bobby didn't even finish the season as the coach... he quit like a bitch. Sure, didn't have a QB or any real weapons - plus the Vick crap, but c'mon... you don't quit the NFL.

[GruntMark]

... even every second of the 59-0 snow blowout.

 

I did too.

 

That was the funniest thing on TV all of fall season.

[LoganRodzen]

I did too.

 

That was the funniest thing on TV all of fall season.

 

Living in New England all of my friends know that I'm a Titans fans... so I literally had about 15 text messages and 5 missed calls from buddies hassling me during and after that game. One of the worst days of my life to be honest.

[GruntMark]

So the Raiders cut JaMarcus Russell. Officially. Finally.

 

He has to be pushing for biggest draft bust of all time.

 

Also maybe fattest.

 

Anyway, with a solid draft and no Russell, the Raiders are probably looking at their best season in ages. Though still pretty bad.

[moon_lit_tears]

So the Raiders cut JaMarcus Russell. Officially. Finally.

 

He has to be pushing for biggest draft bust of all time.

 

Also maybe fattest.

 

Anyway, with a solid draft and no Russell, the Raiders are probably looking at their best season in ages. Though still pretty bad.

 

He was a waste, I couldn't stand him. His "I'm so awesome" attitude sucked too.

[GatorBait19]

someone will pick him up, he still has talent, he just needs to tighten up

 

so who do you think picks him up, Jags, Bills, Vikes, Seahawks, 9ers

 

 

also is it just me or is pete carroll the next spurrier, he is bringing back all of his players including ones who weren't good (Mike Williams)

[Comradebot]

someone will pick him up, he still has talent, he just needs to tighten up

 

so who do you think picks him up, Jags, Bills, Vikes, Seahawks, 9ers

 

 

also is it just me or is pete carroll the next spurrier, he is bringing back all of his players including ones who weren't good (Mike Williams)

 

I think Mr. Scott Steiner has the correct explanation for at least one reason why JaMarcus Russell has been such a bust:

 

[LoganRodzen]

If I was Russell I would just sit on my ass and laugh at the world. He's a millionaire and didn't have to do jack **** for the money. He was lazy, unproductive, and a complete waste of time. I still don't see them getting more than 5 wins next season.

 

also is it just me or is pete carroll the next spurrier, he is bringing back all of his players including ones who weren't good (Mike Williams)

 

I like what Carroll is doing in the RB department. Grabbing Leon Washington and trading for LenDale White is pretty big. Washington is an explosive player when healthy and White can be a huge truck runner if he keeps the binge eating to a minimum. I really liked LenDale when he was with the Titans and was sort of sad to see him go. Him and CJ were awesome as thunder & lightning.

[Stennick]

I really don't think Russell has near the talent everyone thinks he has. I was against him going as high as he did I thought he was the third or fourth best QB in that draft which was a weak QB draft anyway.

 

I can't imagine someone picking him up he's shown to be completely unproductive and uncaring.

[GruntMark]

He'll find a home somewhere. #1 QB picks almost universally get a second chance with a different team.

 

Maybe Buffalo. Or a backup in Seattle.

[Remianen]

Glad to see a Titans fan here on the forum. People definitely overlook what he did last season. I also watched every game last season... even every second of the 59-0 snow blowout. I live in Maine and hate the New England Patriots... I have since I was a kid and that beating didn't help.

 

Britt had a breakthrough (underrated) season in my opinion. The guy made some huge catches as a rookie and the only reason he didn't get much attention is because of our run-heavy offense. I see us taking 55/45 run/pass approach this year.

 

Not if 28 holds out (which he should). Everyone with a brain realizes the Titans should, in the words of Deion Sanders, PAY THE MAN. As Marshall Faulk (a fair to middling back in his own right) so astutely said, Johnson has zero leverage after this year because unless he runs for more than 2,006 yards with a 7 yard per carry average, the team is going to say he has declined in performance and try to justify not giving him a franchise back deal based on that.

 

The man is scheduled to make $525k in 2010 when, for all intents and purposes, he is the Titans offense (personified). Go look and see how many backs make more than that. You can argue he signed the contract as a rookie and should play out this contract and then get paid but that's false. If he gets hurt at ANY point in the next three years, they're not gonna pay him. Besides, Keith Bulluck, the defense's stalwart, played good soldier and didn't demand to be paid on par with other 'backers of his performance level. He got hurt. Are they paying him? Nope!

 

Look at what the Niners are doing. They just took Patrick Willis's contract and gave him a 5 year extension (even going so far as to find unique ways to get around the rules for these contracts). You can say that CJ has only had one good year but then explain Bulluck? The message the Titans are sending to their locker room is one of thrift. It's "become a cornerstone of the franchise but don't expect to be paid like one". Like Matt Bowen said (referring to Willis's deal):

 

But, when a player is outplaying that contract and continuing to show up for a team like San Francisco, who should be favored to win the NFC West this season, then pay the guy. Show him that he is being noticed for his performance on the field and give him some “new money.”

 

Especially for players that are drafted by the club. That is how you build a franchise and that is how you start to develop a winner. Teams like the Green Bay Packers do it all of the time. They reward the core group of players that will be in that uniform for eight to ten years. Smart business and smart football.

 

That wins in this league.

 

someone will pick him up, he still has talent, he just needs to tighten up

 

so who do you think picks him up, Jags, Bills, Vikes, Seahawks, 9ers

 

 

also is it just me or is pete carroll the next spurrier, he is bringing back all of his players including ones who weren't good (Mike Williams)

 

First off, Russell won't play this season. He won't lower his price (his ego won't let him) and no team with a brain is going to give him anything near what the Raiders did. The Seahawks have no room for him (look at how much they're paying Hasselbach and Whitehurst), the Bills think they're good at QB (stop laughing!) and think they can run on every down with a semipro O-line, Russell wouldn't get on with Singletary (and they both know it), and the Vikings don't need a QB until next season. The Jaguars? Heh, the Jaguars are hopeless.

 

Pete Carroll is being smart about things. He's bringing people in who know that system Jeremy Bates runs, which should help everyone else pick it up faster. I think Washington will play his ass off because this is his walk year and White will be fine. Once they cut Julius Jones (so he can sign with the Rams as Jackson insurance), there will be more than enough carries for everyone.

 

But I do hope Chris Johnson holds out, alongside Albert Haynesworth (but with a much smaller bank account).

[GruntMark]

Yes.

 

As a Texans fan I hope Chris Johnson never shows up. Yeah, thats unlikely I guess...

 

Anyway, Bud Adams hates to pay people. He much rather watch them walk and save himself some money.

[LoganRodzen]

I knew at the end of last season that CJ would holdout this off-season. Who wouldn't? He was the best RB in the entire NFL last season. People put him and Adrian Peterson in the same discussion every week wondering whose the best. He deserves a new contract on the 2,000 yard season by itself... but if that's not bad enough look at this quote from NFL.com:

 

His base pay for this year (the third of a five-year, $12-million deal he signed after the Titans made him a first-round draft pick in 2008) is scheduled to be $550,000. One of his backups, Alvin Pearman, is due to be paid $630,000

 

If I was him I would be outraged and insulted. A lot of the blame falls squarely on his agents shoulders though. He came out of college underrated - besides his speed - and knowing that they should have worked out some major milestone bonuses. Surely he could have worked out a million dollar bonus for a 2,000 yard season or something of that nature.

 

The problem that arises is the flooding in Nashville. Has anyone seen video of that mess? The entire football field has about four feet of water over it. I watched an interview with Jeff Fisher and he says there isn't any major damage to the field but how can they know the extent of the damages before the water fully recedes? I think that could affect the Titans view of it.

 

Your whining about your contract when all of these people in Nashville have lost homes, family members, etc.? I think the Titans have more leverage on their side of the dispute than CJ does even though he had that excellent season. In the end I think his reputation in Nashville could be affected if he has a holdout because of the flooding.

 

The American in me says this: you signed a contract - honor it.

 

The Titans fan in me says: I know he deserves a new contract. Whether or not it's financially possible for the team to do is another thing.

[Stennick]

I'm sure its in their contracts that they can hold out by how exactly can they get away with not playing with the contract they signed. If they agree to a contract for such and such amount for x amount of years why shouldn't they have to honor that contract? I would say that would be the balancing act of overpaying guys like Russell and finding gems at the same time like Johnson. Does he deserve to be paid more base on performance of course but if I'm at a job and I know they give raises once every two or three years and I still agree to work for minimum wage and I sign a contract saying that I will do that why shouldn't you be hold to that contract?

 

Maybe its something along the lines of they'll just sit at home for a year while their contract runs out but how can that be legal. You're being paid to play football you signed a contract saying you would play for this amount of money so how can you get away with NOT playing for that money?

[GatorBait19]

I'm sure its in their contracts that they can hold out by how exactly can they get away with not playing with the contract they signed. If they agree to a contract for such and such amount for x amount of years why shouldn't they have to honor that contract? I would say that would be the balancing act of overpaying guys like Russell and finding gems at the same time like Johnson. Does he deserve to be paid more base on performance of course but if I'm at a job and I know they give raises once every two or three years and I still agree to work for minimum wage and I sign a contract saying that I will do that why shouldn't you be hold to that contract?

 

Maybe its something along the lines of they'll just sit at home for a year while their contract runs out but how can that be legal. You're being paid to play football you signed a contract saying you would play for this amount of money so how can you get away with NOT playing for that money?

 

there's been a lot of talk about the rookie scale have brackets (salary) that would save owners about 200 million each year, now from this the player's union want 100 mil of it be given to retired players and the other half going to vets. Owners said no

 

see to me, this all comes down to money, and the owners aren't going to let up, they want to keep as much as they can. so this should be fun

 

and we will see if russell sign onto another team

[PeterHilton]

I'm sure its in their contracts that they can hold out by how exactly can they get away with not playing with the contract they signed. If they agree to a contract for such and such amount for x amount of years why shouldn't they have to honor that contract? I would say that would be the balancing act of overpaying guys like Russell and finding gems at the same time like Johnson. Does he deserve to be paid more base on performance of course but if I'm at a job and I know they give raises once every two or three years and I still agree to work for minimum wage and I sign a contract saying that I will do that why shouldn't you be hold to that contract?

 

Maybe its something along the lines of they'll just sit at home for a year while their contract runs out but how can that be legal. You're being paid to play football you signed a contract saying you would play for this amount of money so how can you get away with NOT playing for that money?

 

A) They don't hold out into the season. If they do they lose game checks.

 

B) In football, the contracts aren't guaranteed. They can be cut at any time with varying financial risk to the team they play for.

 

If you signed a contract at a job, they couldn't fire you after year one without owing you the full amount of the remaining contract. Football teams can.

 

You job also doesn't involve the physical risk that football does. Your job doesn't have an average lifespan just under three years (i assume)

 

If CJ gets his knee blown out next year while playing for just above league minimum, he's f***ed. That's why these guys go out and try to make as much guaranteed money as fast as they can because they have tiny shelf lives and whatever money they make they are trying to set them and their families up for life.

 

It's ridiculous for the Titans to be doing this. It's sports. They need to pay Chris Johnson market value. Period.

[LoganRodzen]

A) They don't hold out into the season. If they do they lose game checks.

 

Which is one reason the Titans have major leverage. He's obligated to fulfill the contract. The Titans have no obligation to do anything. If CJ decides he wants to holdout for the entire season - he could - but like you said he wouldn't get paid, plus the uncertainty of a 2011 season make it highly unlikely he would holdout into the season. It's not in his best interest to miss an entire - possibly two - season(s) of football.

 

The Titans really don't have to do anything though. In the end they need to give him a new contract to keep him happy. He's a franchise player and losing him would literally kill us. But like I said earlier -- the Titans financial situation will determine what happens.

[GDE71]

1. The Jaguars aren't hopeless.

 

2. Anyone who thinks Romo is a better QB than Bradshaw needs to have their head examined.

 

 

The way you were allowed to play defense back in the day was totally different. Also, Bradshaw called all the plays.

[LoganRodzen]

2. Anyone who thinks Romo is a better QB than Bradshaw needs to have their head examined.

 

The way you were allowed to play defense back in the day was totally different. Also, Bradshaw called all the plays.

 

I think Tony Romo is a pretty good regular season QB -- he'll never be more than that though. He will never accomplish anything productive in the playoffs (win a Super Bowl) which (in my eyes) means he isn't a very good QB.

[GruntMark]

Maybe its something along the lines of they'll just sit at home for a year while their contract runs out but how can that be legal. You're being paid to play football you signed a contract saying you would play for this amount of money so how can you get away with NOT playing for that money?

 

He doesnt collect the money if he doesnt perform?

 

Just like all other contracts.

 

If he thinks his contract will be in the megamillions in a year (or even two) without playing football, why not do it?

 

Not that he'll have to. Titans would probably cave before his holdout stretches too long. Worst case is they go a few games without him and remember how much they suck when he isnt in the lineup.

[GDE71]

I think Tony Romo is a pretty good regular season QB -- he'll never be more than that though. He will never accomplish anything productive in the playoffs (win a Super Bowl) which (in my eyes) means he isn't a very good QB.

 

If you are comparing guys playing today to guys who played in the 70's, you are basically comparing guys who played a different game.

 

Todays game is like basketball on grass, while the 70's game was still a very violent game with a bunch of stuff being allowed that would either get you ejected or flagged for a penalty EVERY play.

 

Read this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mel_Blount

 

The new passing rules implemented are known in the league as "the Mel Blount rule"

 

As a Jaguars fan, I read Ask Vic daily. Vic Ketchman covered the Steelers during the 70's/80's/early 90's. He has some really good insights to how football was played during the 70's and of course Bradshaw and Blount in particular.

[Remianen]

If I was him I would be outraged and insulted. A lot of the blame falls squarely on his agents shoulders though. He came out of college underrated - besides his speed - and knowing that they should have worked out some major milestone bonuses. Surely he could have worked out a million dollar bonus for a 2,000 yard season or something of that nature.

 

You can't put bonuses like that in a rookie deal. Basic performance bonuses, sure. But picks that low in the draft often don't even get roster bonuses (which is a prime way teams "hide" money in contracts to increase their value. A bonus just for being on the roster does that).

 

The problem that arises is the flooding in Nashville. Has anyone seen video of that mess? The entire football field has about four feet of water over it. I watched an interview with Jeff Fisher and he says there isn't any major damage to the field but how can they know the extent of the damages before the water fully recedes? I think that could affect the Titans view of it.

 

Your whining about your contract when all of these people in Nashville have lost homes, family members, etc.? I think the Titans have more leverage on their side of the dispute than CJ does even though he had that excellent season. In the end I think his reputation in Nashville could be affected if he has a holdout because of the flooding.

 

I truly hope the people of Tennessee aren't so stupid as to draw a correlation between the two events. Get real! I negotiated an agreement in late September of 2001. Maybe I should've laid down and just done work for free since so many people lost loved ones? Business is business. No one's going to agree to work for GM at minimum wage because they're having financial problems and the market is depressed and no one wants their cars.

 

The American in me says this: you signed a contract - honor it.

 

The Titans fan in me says: I know he deserves a new contract. Whether or not it's financially possible for the team to do is another thing.

 

The American in me says indentured servitude is wrong. Chris Johnson signed a contract that had nothing to do with his expected performance, it was only based on the slot he was picked in. One size fits all contracts don't work when players become 'the franchise'.

 

I would think Titans fans would want 28 to get his money because if he doesn't, no one's going to want to play for that team. A player comes in as a rookie and makes the Pro Bowl while splitting carries with someone else (read: part time player) then the next season when he becomes a full time starter, he blows the doors off the league, breaking what many people thought was an almost unbreakable record (Marshall Faulk's yards from scrimmage record), makes the Pro Bowl AGAIN....and his team refuses to pay him. That makes him a direct parallel to Patrick Willis with one distinctive difference: without Johnson, the Titans don't win. Period.

 

The Titans are sending a message to their locker room that no matter how well you play, we're not going to pay you. We'll see how many Super Bowls they contend for with that message.

 

Does he deserve to be paid more base on performance of course but if I'm at a job and I know they give raises once every two or three years and I still agree to work for minimum wage and I sign a contract saying that I will do that why shouldn't you be hold to that contract?

 

Stennick, you aren't this dense. You're not comparing some schmo job to an NFL contract, are you?

 

Maybe its something along the lines of they'll just sit at home for a year while their contract runs out but how can that be legal. You're being paid to play football you signed a contract saying you would play for this amount of money so how can you get away with NOT playing for that money?

 

You sit at home up until week 6 then come back and play out the season so you don't miss an accrued year. Then, you do the same thing again, knowing the team will have to get rid of you because they know you aint playin' around. You're serious about gettin' what's due you. Let's see how well Alvin Pearman carries the team.

 

You know what the worst part of all this is? The so-called "distraction". People in that locker room are going to be annoyed the first time the team hits a losing streak because the team isn't doing all it can to make the team competitive. So sending the Titans into a gunfight with bowie knives is going to grate on the players AND the fans.

 

Which is one reason the Titans have major leverage. He's obligated to fulfill the contract. The Titans have no obligation to do anything. If CJ decides he wants to holdout for the entire season - he could - but like you said he wouldn't get paid, plus the uncertainty of a 2011 season make it highly unlikely he would holdout into the season. It's not in his best interest to miss an entire - possibly two - season(s) of football.

 

The Titans really don't have to do anything though. In the end they need to give him a new contract to keep him happy. He's a franchise player and losing him would literally kill us. But like I said earlier -- the Titans financial situation will determine what happens.

 

Actually, that's not correct. You seem to be ignoring the fact that players will play harder when they're happy. CJ sitting out is the only thing he can do to get paid properly. Why? Because even if he decides to stick it to the Titans later on, they can bury him in his walk year when he refuses to negotiate a new deal.

 

He doesnt collect the money if he doesnt perform?

 

Just like all other contracts.

 

If he thinks his contract will be in the megamillions in a year (or even two) without playing football, why not do it?

 

Not that he'll have to. Titans would probably cave before his holdout stretches too long. Worst case is they go a few games without him and remember how much they suck when he isnt in the lineup.

 

Here's the worst part, and why I despise small market team philosophies: They don't have a lot of players who require being paid top dollar. CJ is the ONLY one (not even Cortland Finnegan can make a case for getting Asomougha money, given his injury history). The Colts are perennial Super Bowl contenders. Their contracts reflect that. This would be like the Texans refusing to pay 'Dre. Look at the established and rising powers in the league. Most of them are run the same way: they pay for performance. The Texans appear to be on that road (they paid Demeco and didn't make a lot of noise about not doing so).

 

All it takes is one 'pop' and Johnson can be done. He needs to protect himself. If the Titans don't want to pay him, they need to trade him to someone who does (Patriots would be interested, and they have the picks to get a deal done).

[Trashbear]

 

 

All it takes is one 'pop' and Johnson can be done. He needs to protect himself. If the Titans don't want to pay him, they need to trade him to someone who does (Patriots would be interested, and they have the picks to get a deal done).

 

Man, oh man, would that ever be sweet.

 

But yeah, Remi, what you say is pretty spot on. The Titans really ought to pay the man, and he is the one who justifies the big bucks on that team. I understand that the NFL philosophy on running backs of late has been to try and find value in the middle rounds of the draft or to grab a middle of the road free agent and put him behind a good O-line and QB, but there's a difference between good backs and great backs, and CJ is a great back. Probably the best in the league.

 

I have no love for the Titans (it goes back to a comment made by Zach Pillar after the Titans lost to the Pats in the 2003 division playoffs) so I would love to see them bungle their handling of Johnson.

[CQI13]

Remi, so if a guy underperforms in his deal he should give money back too? Only fair, right?

[Candyman]

If you are comparing guys playing today to guys who played in the 70's, you are basically comparing guys who played a different game.

 

Todays game is like basketball on grass, while the 70's game was still a very violent game with a bunch of stuff being allowed that would either get you ejected or flagged for a penalty EVERY play.

 

Plus today's players are so much stronger and faster...if you asked a football player in the 70s where the weight room was, they'd give you directions to the doctor's office. Plus the schemes coaches devise today...like you said, it's a completely different game.

 

I truly hope the people of Tennessee aren't so stupid as to draw a correlation between the two events. Get real! I negotiated an agreement in late September of 2001. Maybe I should've laid down and just done work for free since so many people lost loved ones? Business is business. No one's going to agree to work for GM at minimum wage because they're having financial problems and the market is depressed and no one wants their cars.

 

Unfortunately, there probably are people drawing the correlation - we live amongst a LOT of stupid people. Remember, on this very board, when people were complaining that the US governement shouldn't be helping in Haiti with all the problems that are going on in this country...as if doing one had anything to do with their ability to do the other?

 

You sit at home up until week 6 then come back and play out the season so you don't miss an accrued year. Then, you do the same thing again, knowing the team will have to get rid of you because they know you aint playin' around. You're serious about gettin' what's due you. Let's see how well Alvin Pearman carries the team.

 

You don't report until week 12 - six games is an accrued season.

 

You know what the worst part of all this is? The so-called "distraction". People in that locker room are going to be annoyed the first time the team hits a losing streak because the team isn't doing all it can to make the team competitive. So sending the Titans into a gunfight with bowie knives is going to grate on the players AND the fans.

 

Here's the worst part, and why I despise small market team philosophies: They don't have a lot of players who require being paid top dollar. CJ is the ONLY one (not even Cortland Finnegan can make a case for getting Asomougha money, given his injury history). The Colts are perennial Super Bowl contenders. Their contracts reflect that. This would be like the Texans refusing to pay 'Dre. Look at the established and rising powers in the league. Most of them are run the same way: they pay for performance. The Texans appear to be on that road (they paid Demeco and didn't make a lot of noise about not doing so).

 

Wait, which one is the worst part?

 

All it takes is one 'pop' and Johnson can be done. He needs to protect himself. If the Titans don't want to pay him, they need to trade him to someone who does (Patriots would be interested, and they have the picks to get a deal done).

 

I don't see that working. The Patriots don't overpay, so they likely wouldn't be interested in giving up what the Titans want OR giving Johnson the contract he wants (unless he's willing to give them a bargain). Oakland would be a perfect fit, but I don't think there's any chance they trade him. He'll get paid, it just might not be as fast as he'd like.