Official NFL Discussion Thread

[PeterHilton]

They have the right to be excited. They do not have a right to turn that excitement into a celebration that would rival that of a Broadway dancing musical.

 

What 'rights' are you talking about?

 

Do you know how silly that sounds? I WANT the players I root for to be passionate and emotional and driven and to play each game with all the heart and effort they have in them.

 

Most fans DEMAND that players give a supreme effort and work as hard as they possibly can to make a big play.

 

And then ..what? You want them to get up, dust themselves off, and head back to the huddle like nothing happened? So be bursting with passion one moment and then turn it off like a light switch?

 

They're human beings playing a kid's game not robots. I would much rather allow them to express that raw emotion and deal with the occasional prima donnas like MeSean than to ask the entire league act like a bunch of emotioness automotons

[PeterHilton]

And again....

 

That is what is wrong about modern culture. It is all about poor sportsmanship. And people celebrate it! We as a culture have been conditioned to celebrate crap like this.

 

 

Man you sound like some crotchedy old coot. I'm certain there will be players that will try to get some payback on Jackson the next time he plays the Cowboys; it's the NFL and that kind of payback is common-place.

[BHK1978]

And the award for grouchiest old curmudgeon goes to.....

 

Although I have to say, if end zone dances were our biggest failing as a culture, we'd be in a far better society than we're in right now.

 

And again....

 

 

 

Man you sound like some crotchedy old coot. I'm certain there will be players that will try to get some payback on Jackson the next time he plays the Cowboys; it's the NFL and that kind of payback is common-place.

 

I find on this board, not with you but others, that if you have a different opinion about a subject you are clearly wrong and an idiot.

 

And what do you know the two biggest offenders to what I was saying in the above post have to get their two cents in. I will not even bother addressing the two of you, because you have both proven in the past that you will not drop something until you "win". So you guys win, go ahead and do your elaborate celebrations. After all you just beat me with all the passion you could over the internet.

[moon_lit_tears]

BHK you and I are cool. We get along pretty well. I won't call names. I'm not like that.

 

I will say though that telling these men they can't show emotion (yes that's what you are saying) for doing well in the game is wrong.

[BHK1978]

BHK you and I are cool. We get along pretty well. I won't call names. I'm not like that.

 

I will say though that telling these men they can't show emotion (yes that's what you are saying) for doing well in the game is wrong.

 

Last thing I shall say on this, I cannot be wrong because there is nothing that can be brought up to prove I am wrong. Just like there is nothing that can be brought up to prove I am right. It is my opinion, it may not be popular but it is my opinion nevertheless. There are no facts involved in this.

 

And to be honest like I said to you in the PM I sent you, I am not against showing emotion. You score a touchdown and want to come over congratulate your teammate, point your hand towards god, or something like that, well to me that is fine.

 

I mean I would rather see the player just hand the football off to the ref but realistically I know that is not going to happen. What bothers me is when they do these elaborate end zone celebrations where they break into a river dance or whatever. To me that is just being a poor sport and totally not necessary.

 

I stand by what I said, "This is what is wrong with our culture." I did not mean it in the sense of just football. I meant it overall, in our culture we celebrate the jerks. The bigger jerk you are the more people praise them.

[jesterx7769]

Someone posted once about it before the celebrating issue started so in an effort to change topics...

 

What do you think should happen to the Jets coach that tripped the player?

 

While I admit it is extremely harsh I think they need to fire/ban him for a few reasons. The only reason he may not be fired is because the player wasn't more seriously hurt.

 

1) They might ban the camera guy from the NFL who taped for the Pats and Broncos and got caught twice that we know of. If you can get banned for this, intentionally hurting someone must be on it as well.

 

2) The NFL has gone on a huge "No We actually do care! (but play 18 games)" spree this year fining players for the helmet to helmet hits. If you crack down so much about "caring" and to me this is the most blatant worst of them all, you have to be harsh.

 

3) The player is very very lucky he isn't hurt seriously. What if he messed up his leg so bad and never recovered to his full potential ending his career?

 

4) Coaches should be treated worse than players. We have seen players do cheap hits and hard hits but they are actually IN the game. There is emotion there is contracts and lively hood on the line, and things can get out of control ON the field. however standing off to the side in a wind suit, where was this build up of emotion? This pay back hit? Also even as grown men your coaches still are supposed to pass along the knowledge of the game and life. so many coaches are role models and you do this.

 

5) The guy is clearly a moron with 2 remaining brain cells. This is 2010, there are dozens of active cameras now on a national televised game, and you do this? How the heck did this pass as a good idea? Any common sense would show you that a camera somewhere has it in their sight.

 

6) The real world comparison. Real world workers get into arguments and small scuffles all the time, everyone doesnt always get along and we do things to retaliate and get back. Spread a rumor, screw them up a bit maybe a small key of a car (im relating these to late hits, a punch in the helmet, an on field scuffle). but to me this was cutting the brakes on your fellow co-workers car only to see them crash on the highway.

 

8) What if a fan did this? What if a fan sneaked down onto the field and tripped the player. He would have spent the night in local jail most likely and been charged with the trespassing and possible assault charges since it hurt an almighty athlete. To me a strength and conditioning coach is much closer to being a fan in the game than a player who is on the field, in the heat of the moment, and retaliates.

 

I know this may sound "old man and crotchety" but I actually DO care about the players safety and I don't see how you can let such a low blow move just slide with like a $50K fine on something that wasn't even related to on field play.

[BHK1978]

Well I think he should be fired. A ban might be a little too harsh but I would not be against it either. Like I said before, it reminded me of the Wood Hayes incident (although in the case of Woody the play was already dead.), it cost him his job so I cannot see why this should not cause the Jets coach his job at the very least. Also, would not mind seeing him get fined as well.

[lazorbeak]

And what do you know the two biggest offenders to what I was saying in the above post have to get their two cents in. I will not even bother addressing the two of you, because you have both proven in the past that you will not drop something until you "win". So you guys win, go ahead and do your elaborate celebrations. After all you just beat me with all the passion you could over the internet.

 

First of all, I had nothing to do with your argument. Second of all, the only point I am making is how you sound when you say something like that and how end zone dances are far, far, FAR from the biggest problem in our culture even when we confine our culture's problems to those directly involving sports. Nowhere did I say you were wrong or a bad guy. Seriously, this isn't even my fight. I don't care about end zone dances either way. So I think calling me a "winner" is a bit premature since I'm not even a competitor.

[jbergey_2005]

I dont mind end zone dances but Deshaun Jackson has proven time and time again that he is a fool. It was funny when he was showboating and gave up the ball prior to getting to the end zone and having the other team recover. He did something similiar in a high school all american game where he did a flip before getting to the end zone and lost the ball. Great talent with much to learn.

[Stennick]

I see nothing wrong with these guys celebrating. Their grown men playing a kids game, if you can't take a guy taunting you stop him.

 

Couple of things that bother me about people, mostly fans of sports.

 

1.) Everybody hates a showboat, you guys realize that wrestling is SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT as I would assume most of us watch it for the athletics as much as we do the entertainment. Take out the entertainment and we got 1930's style pro wrestling. Take out the sports and we have soap opera. So I'm really shocked to see people on a wrestling board being offended by athletes show boating since isn't that EXACTLY what wrestling is? Isn't it cool to see UFC guys talk trash and then go out and do something about it? Would we be upset if we saw a UFC guy destroy somebody and taunt him before finishing him off. I'm all for things like that. It makes the sports even more entertaining. Just like promos some of them are creative and some are done but also like promos I'm thinking "man is that guy going to get whats coming to him after that". So yeah I'm baffled by it. I love it and wish they were free to do whatever they wanted after any play.

 

2.) I'm confused when people cry about running up the score in pro sports. This isn't little league, these are highly trained, experienced, multi million dollar athletes. You don't want them to drop 70 points on you? STOP THEM. I for one love seeing the 50-0 beat downs.

[PeterHilton]

Someone posted once about it before the celebrating issue started so in an effort to change topics...

 

What do you think should happen to the Jets coach that tripped the player?

 

I know this may sound "old man and crotchety" but I actually DO care about the players safety and I don't see how you can let such a low blow move just slide with like a $50K fine on something that wasn't even related to on field play.

 

 

Haha...having common sense isn't 'old and crotchety'. Saying that end zone dances is endemic of society's problems is 'old and crotchety.'

 

He should be fired. I don't think that's at all harsh. There's just no justification for his actions and his position gives him no leverage. He should've been canned that night.

 

I dont mind end zone dances but Deshaun Jackson has proven time and time again that he is a fool. It was funny when he was showboating and gave up the ball prior to getting to the end zone and having the other team recover. He did something similiar in a high school all american game where he did a flip before getting to the end zone and lost the ball. Great talent with much to learn.

 

That's just it. Unless he does something blatantly illegal, his talent outweighs his shenanigans on the field.

[moon_lit_tears]

 

 

 

That's just it. Unless he does something blatantly illegal, his talent outweighs his shenanigans on the field.

 

No....his talent does not always show. He can be pretty stupid at times. He just needs to.calm it a bit and he would be ok.

[jbergey_2005]

I see nothing wrong with these guys celebrating. Their grown men playing a kids game, if you can't take a guy taunting you stop him.

 

Couple of things that bother me about people, mostly fans of sports.

 

1.) Everybody hates a showboat, you guys realize that wrestling is SPORTS ENTERTAINMENT as I would assume most of us watch it for the athletics as much as we do the entertainment. Take out the entertainment and we got 1930's style pro wrestling. Take out the sports and we have soap opera. So I'm really shocked to see people on a wrestling board being offended by athletes show boating since isn't that EXACTLY what wrestling is? Isn't it cool to see UFC guys talk trash and then go out and do something about it? Would we be upset if we saw a UFC guy destroy somebody and taunt him before finishing him off. I'm all for things like that. It makes the sports even more entertaining. Just like promos some of them are creative and some are done but also like promos I'm thinking "man is that guy going to get whats coming to him after that". So yeah I'm baffled by it. I love it and wish they were free to do whatever they wanted after any play.

 

2.) I'm confused when people cry about running up the score in pro sports. This isn't little league, these are highly trained, experienced, multi million dollar athletes. You don't want them to drop 70 points on you? STOP THEM. I for one love seeing the 50-0 beat downs.

 

Its just a personal preference people have. Some people were coached by coaches that said you dont do these things some probably werent. Its hard to compare it to wrestling IMO as people know wrestling is fake and in the old days the people that acted like Jackson were "heels" that got booed by the fans.

 

It is really that much fun seeing an overmatched team get pounded? Yes, STOP THEM is the easy response but even in the NFL the talent levels arent the same. Im not sure what you do for a living but would you like it in your job if after a bad day of work you get a flat tire and end up getting home 2 hours late? Its just piling on for no good reason and coaches usually do a good job of respecting that.

[Stennick]

Me having a bad day at work and then getting a flat tire and then getting a speeding ticket and then getting in a car accident and then spending all night in the ER thats a bad night but thats not me not being able to do my job.

 

It would be like me screwing something up at work, then screwing something up because I screwed that up and I wind up having the worst day at work ever. Am I upset? Of course but I'd also realize that its nobody's fault but my own. I should have done my job better.

 

The talent levels aren't that different or you would see 50-0 every week. The Rams were 1-15 last year and the Saints were Super Bowl champs we played within two touchdowns of them and last year DURING our 1-15 season they were undefeated and we were all defeated and they beat us by less than a touchdown.

 

No matter how bad a team is they still have talented, all world athletes getting paid millions of dollars to do one thing. Stop the other team from winning if they can't do that on either side of the ball then I don't mind them getting destroyed.

 

You're right its personal preference and some coaches do say things like that. At the same time I see nothing wrong with it. I think its completely comparable to wrestling. I don't think people are interested in JUST football, they want to see some show boating they want to see some emotion, they want to see some flare. I suppose the Super Bowl shouldn't have a band play at halftime? They have nothing to do with football and I'm sure people have had coaches tell them "don't worry about the band playing" yet people still enjoy the halftime show.

 

Football isn't for the players to enjoy, its their job and if they enjoy it great. However much like wrestling or any other sport or entertainment its built for the customer to enjoy and if the person doing it loves what their doing great but at the end of the day its a customer driven entertainment. I wish I could see more of it honestly and in more sports.

[BHK1978]

Stennick, I just hope your Rams or the Seahawks win the rest of their games from here on out. Because I would hate to see a losing team get an automatic bid into the playoffs.

 

Watch that will probably happen and somehow the Giants are going to screw up and not make the playoffs.

[jbergey_2005]

Me having a bad day at work and then getting a flat tire and then getting a speeding ticket and then getting in a car accident and then spending all night in the ER thats a bad night but thats not me not being able to do my job.

 

It would be like me screwing something up at work, then screwing something up because I screwed that up and I wind up having the worst day at work ever. Am I upset? Of course but I'd also realize that its nobody's fault but my own. I should have done my job better.

 

The talent levels aren't that different or you would see 50-0 every week. The Rams were 1-15 last year and the Saints were Super Bowl champs we played within two touchdowns of them and last year DURING our 1-15 season they were undefeated and we were all defeated and they beat us by less than a touchdown.

 

No matter how bad a team is they still have talented, all world athletes getting paid millions of dollars to do one thing. Stop the other team from winning if they can't do that on either side of the ball then I don't mind them getting destroyed.

 

You're right its personal preference and some coaches do say things like that. At the same time I see nothing wrong with it. I think its completely comparable to wrestling. I don't think people are interested in JUST football, they want to see some show boating they want to see some emotion, they want to see some flare. I suppose the Super Bowl shouldn't have a band play at halftime? They have nothing to do with football and I'm sure people have had coaches tell them "don't worry about the band playing" yet people still enjoy the halftime show.

 

Football isn't for the players to enjoy, its their job and if they enjoy it great. However much like wrestling or any other sport or entertainment its built for the customer to enjoy and if the person doing it loves what their doing great but at the end of the day its a customer driven entertainment. I wish I could see more of it honestly and in more sports.

 

While I agree with a lot if what you say I consider a NFL game with a score of something like 35-0 like a TKO in MMA or boxing. I see no reason to keep kicking them when they are already beat. Its not entertainment at that point for me anyway.

 

And I dont think anyone is saying they want the entertainment taken out of the game(halftime shows) and if Deshaun Jackson wants to act like that the NFL should not fine the next middle linebacker that decides to do something about him acting like that. I would find entertainment in that. These offensive players can do whatever they want while the defense gets their hands tied.

[Slagaholic]

When someone gets a TKO in MMA or boxing...do they celebrate and dance around the ring/cage? YES!

 

Did you really just compare intentionally being an ass with intentionally trying to injure someone? Really...

 

Not a single rule change in the last 30 years is the cause of Desean Jackson putting on the jets and running past an entire defense. Defensive players do a dance every time they stop the offense for a loss has no right to complain about Desean Jackson.

 

Watch an NFL game and watch what happens every time the offense is stopped for a loss. Someone's dancing. Yet it's only controversial when it's after a touchdown.

[jbergey_2005]

When someone gets a TKO in MMA or boxing...do they celebrate and dance around the ring/cage? YES!

 

Did you really just compare intentionally being an ass with intentionally trying to injure someone? Really...

 

Not a single rule change in the last 30 years is the cause of Desean Jackson putting on the jets and running past an entire defense.

 

And a Big SWING and Miss.

[Slagaholic]

Well if you choose to avoid and ignore completely valid points there's no reason to argue. And you missed my edit:

 

Defensive players do a dance every time they stop the offense for a loss has no right to complain about Desean Jackson.

 

Watch an NFL game and watch what happens every time the offense is stopped for a loss. Someone's dancing. Yet it's only controversial when it's after a touchdown.

 

If you're going to be an incorrigible horse's ass, why bother sharing your opinion?

[jbergey_2005]

Well if you choose to avoid and ignore completely valid points there's no reason to argue. And you missed my edit:

 

What was valid?

 

The MMA/Boxing example had nothing to do with dancing. It was commenting on Stennicks "Stop Them" comment with a few other comments thrown in.

 

I never said a thing about injuring anyone so that point is invalid as well. Deshaun can act like a prick and the defensive player cant even get a clean shot on him without having to risk a fine. It was funny when Ware was ready to crush him last night and Jackson went down like the little punk he is.

 

It wasnt dancing I was commenting on. I could care less if players dance. Jackson is just a punk and does everything he can to keep proving it.

 

Im the horses ass when you are the one that comes into an argument and starts commenting on stuff I didnt even say?

[Slagaholic]

You mentioned adding insult to injury, which definitely brought up celebrating a TKO/TD.

 

You think a 5'10" 175 guy (that's what he's listed as, but I've seen him up close...he's smaller than that) who has had 2 concussions in the last 12 months should drop his shoulder on a 6'2" 225 guy running at him full speed? Really...

 

Go back and look at some guys of Jackson's size that did just that in previous eras of the NFL. THEY CAN BARELY WALK ANYMORE and that was when the average player was much, much smaller. Pfft **** his future quality life, if he doesn't go nose to nose with a guy who has 50 lbs on him and is running at him full speed, he's a punk.

 

I don't care what you think about Desean Jackson, but making absolute declarations about someone's personality based on what they do while on the field is absolutely innane.

[jbergey_2005]

You mentioned adding insult to injury, which definitely brought up celebrating a TKO/TD.

 

You think a 5'10" 175 guy who has had 2 concussions in the last 12 months should drop his shoulder on a 6'2" 225 guy running at him full speed? Really.

 

I don't care what you think about Desean Jackson, but making absolute declarations about someone's personality based on what they do while on the field is absolutely innane.

 

Nah he ducked down when he was going to get throttled from the side. He will get his. If you are that size that last thing he should be doing is pissing off 280 pound bricks.

 

Jackson has a history of this since high school. Plenty of reading material about him will paint the picture for you of his personality.

[jbergey_2005]

Go back and look at some guys of Jackson's size that did just that in previous eras of the NFL. THEY CAN BARELY WALK ANYMORE and that was when the average player was much, much smaller. Pfft **** his future quality life, if he doesn't go nose to nose with a guy who has 50 lbs on him and is running at him full speed, he's a punk.

 

 

So you agree that this little wide reciever should not be pissing off the entire defense by acting like a jerk on the field? Or do you think these NFL players will forget all about it and let him have a free pass the next time they get a clean shot on him? Perhaps there is a reason he has has 2 concussions in the past 12 months.

[Slagaholic]

I'm saying no matter how big of a jerk he is, it doesn't matter.

 

Defensive players don't go: oh **** that's Desean Jackson. I'm gonna try to hit him harder! They will try to lay out whoever has the ball as hard as possible. As long as they do it legally, I don't mind it at all.

 

Desean could have been doing cartwheels into the endzone since Pop Warner, that says nothing about who he is other than an over-excitable guy who is the biggest deep threat in the league.

[jbergey_2005]

I'm saying no matter how big of a jerk he is, it doesn't matter.

 

Defensive players don't go: oh **** that's Desean Jackson. I'm gonna try to hit him harder! They will try to lay out whoever has the ball as hard as possible. As long as they do it legally, I don't mind it at all.

 

Desean could have been doing cartwheels into the endzone since Pop Warner, that says nothing about who he is other than an over-excitable guy who is the biggest deep threat in the league.

 

Im guessing these NFL players with huge egos dont forget things too easily. Just from how Ware went after Jackson a few plays after his end zone celebration it seemed as if Ware wanted to put a hurt to Jackson. And I do think Jackson is an exciting player I just wished he had a little more class. He has had more close to the end zone careless mishaps that any player I can remember and yet he still is playing with fire.