The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Daffanka]

If you had to set up a ranking system, starting from scratch, how would you set it up? After that, how would you determine what win is worth more (how would you differentiate between 2 or more fighters with identical records)?

 

I wouldn't. Records are only worth as much as the people on them and even then they're not worth very much since there's a million things that have changed since the fight. The only thing you can really judge guys on is what you see from them when they fight.

 

Wouldn't someone like Jeremy Horn, 85-20 or something equally ridiculous, be the top fighter in the world? Or should they be judged on the combined records of their opponents? Or the combined records of the opponents of their opponent?

 

And then styles make fights so ranking fighters on a linear scale is pointless and a waste of time and it's only there for people new to the sport but should never be used as an actual reference for who the best fighters are, #1 (generally) excluded.

[brashleyholland]

What's everyone thinking of TUF so far?

 

Very 'same old, same old' so far for me. I hate reality TV, especially stuff as low brow as TUF...but in terms of doing it's job, I don't think they could do much better with it.

 

I'm not going to spoil anything, but I know the finalists already...suffice to say there should be some good fights to watch.

 

Still quite interested to see how the whole Liddell/Tito plays out. Chuck was very 'company man' when we asked him about it recently, but (POTENTIAL SPOILER IN WHITE!!!) I know people who have spoken to both Liddell and Franklin's camps and am hearing the same stuff that MMATurf broke earlier this week...namely that Franklin/Liddell is a go for the end of the season. That said, I do have a slight suspicion that the UFC might be trying to pull a fast one...

[brashleyholland]

In some sad or amusing news, depending on how you look at it...The UFC has just done Ken Shamrock for another $175,000 in legal fee's following his ridiculous court case against them that was thrown out earlier this year....ouch!

 

Kenny better hope he can get those grudge matches with Tank and Frank back on the agenda...

[Daffanka]

Very 'same old, same old' so far for me. I hate reality TV, especially stuff as low brow as TUF...but in terms of doing it's job, I don't think they could do much better with it.

 

I'm not going to spoil anything, but I know the finalists already...suffice to say there should be some good fights to watch.

 

I hate TUF too so PM it to me!

 

I could watch the last one because Rampage being a terrible coach and TUF quality heavyweights kept it interesting but this is just boring.

[Guest canyoudothecancan]

I think Chris Camozzi vs Brad Tavares will be the finals of TUF.

Onto another thing Rafael Dos Anjos has a big future in the UFC as he will go in the line between title contender and gatekeeper.

Also I can't wait for Rick Story vs Nick Osipczak.

[Daffanka]

If you didn't catch Bellator last night you missed some really hilarious submission escapes from Warren.

[Bull]

well Frankie Edgar is the new Lightweight champ.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cagewriter/post/Frankie-Edgar-shocks-B-J-Penn-for-UFC-lightweig?urn=mma,233384

[LoNdOn]

well Frankie Edgar is the new Lightweight champ.

http://sports.yahoo.com/mma/blog/cagewriter/post/Frankie-Edgar-shocks-B-J-Penn-for-UFC-lightweig?urn=mma,233384

 

Yeah he is. I scored it 49-46 to him

[Daffanka]

Munoz - Grove was an awesome sloppy fight and a perfect opener.

 

Etim - Dos Anjos was a good fight apart from the ref being an idiot with the knees.

 

Hughes - Renzo... christ.

 

Penn - Edgar was a really good fight. I had it 48-47 Penn but I wasn't surprised that the judges scored Edgar pushing the pace over BJ landing more punches. Where that 50-45 judge was coming from I have no idea though.

 

Anderson - Maia wasn't exactly terrific. Anderson either doesn't want to take any risks (when was the last fight he actively engaged an opponent?) or just doesn't want any fans. At least Maia tried to make it interesting but I really feel like you need someone with an explosive double. Someone like UFC Republican Middleweight #1 Contender Chael Sonnen.

[Acidburned]

Just wondering if anyone can help me out. A year or maybe 2, there was an English fighter at a Cage Rage event I think it was that came to the ring dressed like a gorilla I think he was in a cage and his corner men were dressed like giant bananas. I know it sounds like I am tripping or something lol, it's not just me that can remember as a few of my mates were here watching the event. Any idea's? I tried to google it but have had no luck so far.

[Dustin]

Munoz - Grove was an awesome sloppy fight and a perfect opener.

 

Etim - Dos Anjos was a good fight apart from the ref being an idiot with the knees.

 

Hughes - Renzo... christ.

 

Penn - Edgar was a really good fight. I had it 48-47 Penn but I wasn't surprised that the judges scored Edgar pushing the pace over BJ landing more punches. Where that 50-45 judge was coming from I have no idea though.

 

Anderson - Maia wasn't exactly terrific. Anderson either doesn't want to take any risks (when was the last fight he actively engaged an opponent?) or just doesn't want any fans. At least Maia tried to make it interesting but I really feel like you need someone with an explosive double. Someone like UFC Republican Middleweight #1 Contender Chael Sonnen.

 

LOL

[chris caulfield]

If you take away the Silva vs. Maia fight and pretend the Phil Davis fight was the 5th main card bout then 112 was actually a pretty good card.

 

Great opening fight in Munoz vs. Grove which was entertaining all the way through.

 

Dos Anjos vs. Etim was a a good fight and a great finish from Dos Anjos.

 

You get to see two great prospects in Alexander Gustafsson and Phil Davis with Phil David showing some ground game improvement and Gustafsso showing some surprisingly great takedown defence.

 

And in what would of been the main event slot you get a very entertaining Lightweight title fight between Edgar and Penn. Despite the dodgy decision itwas a good fight and it was much more competitive than anyone thought it was going to be.

[ACCBiggz]

Penn/Edgar Scores from around the community:

Myself - 48-47 Penn

Sherdog - 49-47, 48-47, 49-46 all for Penn

MMA Junkie - 48-47 Edgar

MMA Weekly - 48-48 Draw

Bloody Elbow - 48-47 Penn

Fight Metric (statistics) - 49-47 Penn

[LoNdOn]

Penn/Edgar Scores from around the community:

Myself - 48-47 Penn

Sherdog - 49-47, 48-47, 49-46 all for Penn

MMA Junkie - 48-47 Edgar

MMA Weekly - 48-48 Draw

Bloody Elbow - 48-47 Penn

Fight Metric (statistics) - 49-47 Penn

LoNdOn - 49-46 Edgar

 

added to

[Daffanka]

LOL

 

High level boxing in MMA owns. I'm sorry you didn't get to see a slugfest.

[ACCBiggz]

added to

 

Please, as you seem to join a lot of fans, tell me how you got to this conclusion?

 

 

My basis for the score:

Penn was on point early with crisp boxing. Frankie didn't land on Penn at all really, maybe a small shot here or there, but BJ tagged him REPEATEDLY with a nice jab and decent counters. I mean, it was textbook boxing. Yet, I think where the "Frankie won the fight" stuff comes from is perception. BJ had a very small cut, little bruising, was tired at the end, and Frankie remained very active with movement. And that's fine, but you don't get points for movement. I really want to send Boxing 101 DVD's to people and learn them something.

[chris caulfield]

I made the decision not to score the Edgar-Penn fight as most of the rounds were close so I just watched and enjoyed instead of trying to score it. Will watch it again later though and will score it for myself. I think the reason all the judges went for Edgar is because he looked like he was doing much more even though he wasn't.

[Franchise22]

Penn/Edgar Scores from around the community:

Myself - 48-47 Penn

Sherdog - 49-47, 48-47, 49-46 all for Penn

MMA Junkie - 48-47 Edgar

MMA Weekly - 48-48 Draw

Bloody Elbow - 48-47 Penn

Fight Metric (statistics) - 49-47 Penn

 

Kevin Iole (yahoo) 48-47 edgar

 

most people i spoke to said edgar controlled the pace, had "octagon control", but penn landed stronger blows early, but faded.

 

Iole tweeted that penn had a brace, many said he lloked soft. injury perhaps caused a drop in condition?

 

im a HUGE penn fan so this saddens me. whats next for BJ? move to 170 anyways? go for rematch?

 

This is good news for Florian. i think this opens him up for another shot if he can put down another top contender. maybe put him up against maynard?

[Dustin]

High level boxing in MMA owns. I'm sorry you didn't get to see a slugfest.

 

Boxing is boring in all forms. Even kids that fight on the playground throw punches. I like to see fighters mix it up.

[brashleyholland]

Just wondering if anyone can help me out. A year or maybe 2, there was an English fighter at a Cage Rage event I think it was that came to the ring dressed like a gorilla I think he was in a cage and his corner men were dressed like giant bananas. I know it sounds like I am tripping or something lol, it's not just me that can remember as a few of my mates were here watching the event. Any idea's? I tried to google it but have had no luck so far.

 

You're thinking of my good buddy Tom 'Kong' Watson. He's training at Jackson's now with GSP and co. and fighting in MFC, where he won his last fight with a sick head-kick KO. His next fight is back in the UK though against psudo-celeb Alex Reid, A.K.A. Jordan's boyfriend.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Do you think when Frankie chose his nickname as "The Answer" that several years later it would be relevant in a conversation with BJ Penn? Just sayin', ironic.

[Daffanka]

Boxing is boring in all forms. Even kids that fight on the playground throw punches. I like to see fighters mix it up.

 

Well it's a shame BJ decided to do nothing but hang back and counter because if he'd actively pushed it towards the ground and used his size advantage he'd have probably convincingly taken the fight or submitted Edgar.

[Tag01]

I gave it 49-46 Penn, with BJ taking every round except the last one. But I had all four of BJ's rounds as fairly close. I'd definitely look forward to a rematch. What would you guys book next?

 

At 155, I'd book Edgar's first title defense against Florian. This also presents as good as an opportunity as we're going to get to see BJ-Gomi II. As far as Silva goes, I don't really know what to do with him. I'd say book his next fight on free tv again to shaft him out of a PPV bonus, but I think we're going to keep seeing this crap for as long as he's bored. He might put away Vitor, if only because Vitor would probably keep coming at him until he got KO'd. But I don't really see him doing anything other than showboating and backpedalling at 185. Book him as the main event at 205 on another Fight Night, and if he wins convincingly then make GSP-Silva happen.

[LoNdOn]

Please, as you seem to join a lot of fans, tell me how you got to this conclusion?

 

 

My basis for the score:

Penn was on point early with crisp boxing. Frankie didn't land on Penn at all really, maybe a small shot here or there, but BJ tagged him REPEATEDLY with a nice jab and decent counters. I mean, it was textbook boxing. Yet, I think where the "Frankie won the fight" stuff comes from is perception. BJ had a very small cut, little bruising, was tired at the end, and Frankie remained very active with movement. And that's fine, but you don't get points for movement. I really want to send Boxing 101 DVD's to people and learn them something.

 

Sure

 

I felt Edgar outworked Penn, outstruck him, he took him down a couple of times and I just felt that overall he was the better fighter. The marks on BJ's face didn't even factor into my judging really as i decided on the scores as they were walking back to the corner. Don't get me wrong BJ did hit a few good counters and I have never underestimated his boxing ability, but by the same token, Edgar hit just as many good counters. After factoring in everything that is how my scorecard wound up as it did. I am not going to accuse you of being a Penn "nuthugger" as everybody seems to be calling people who think BJ won. I can see how some people such as yourself feel BJ did better but I do not believe he won. It's nice having a debate about the fight without resulting to name calling like they do on other forums.

[LoNdOn]

I gave it 49-46 Penn, with BJ taking every round except the last one. But I had all four of BJ's rounds as fairly close. I'd definitely look forward to a rematch. What would you guys book next?

 

At 155, I'd book Edgar's first title defense against Florian. This also presents as good as an opportunity as we're going to get to see BJ-Gomi II. As far as Silva goes, I don't really know what to do with him. I'd say book his next fight on free tv again to shaft him out of a PPV bonus, but I think we're going to keep seeing this crap for as long as he's bored. He might put away Vitor, if only because Vitor would probably keep coming at him until he got KO'd. But I don't really see him doing anything other than showboating and backpedalling at 185. Book him as the main event at 205 on another Fight Night, and if he wins convincingly then make GSP-Silva happen.

 

I would also like to see Florian vs Edgar but maybe Maynard should get a shot as he actually is the only person to have beaten Edgar and he is a contender. I wouldn't be surprised at all though to see Penn vs Edgar II next. Personally I don't like seeing fighters getting a title shot after coming off a loss.

 

Edit: I would like to see Florian vs Edgar for the title next and have Maynard go up against Penn. Winner vs Winner afterwards.