The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[RingofHonorGuard]

 

I think Rampage - Machida makes a lot of sense from a business perspective, or any match ups between Nog, Machida, Forrest and Rampage that doesn't lead to Rampage - Forrest 2.

 

Money wise the Machida/Rampage fight makes sense, but stylistically and based off what we seen of Quinton versus Rashad is Quinton is a step behind in speed these days. He's not going to outstrike Machida in any area, and it just doesn't seem all that appealing.

 

How is Forrest/Quinton 2 not appealing? Forrest holds wins over Shogun and Rampage... Shogun beat Rampage, but Forrest is in no position for a title shot even though he has a win over the champ. Forrest and Rampage both lost to Rashad, who is the #1 contender. There's no reason not to book Rampage and Forrest II.

[Zoloftjunkie]

Well Jackson let me down Let's just hope he doesn't go crazy again and kill any more babies.

 

On the bright side atleast we get to see Shogun embarass evans. How come evans gets such a quick title shot off his defeat to Machida yet my man Florian is still waiting?

 

You think the announcers hyped that knockout enough? Greatest come from behind knock out in UFC history?

 

It is hard for me to say Nog straight up won that fight but I don't think it was clearly Brilz fight either. I would love to see a rematch there with Brilz having a proper camp/time. And my god rogan/goldberg annoy me. I beg the UFC to bring the THE VOICE!

 

I taped the prelims so time to go watch them now. If only there was a button on the remote to turn off the commentators yet still hear the thuds of the hits.

[Daffanka]

How is Forrest/Quinton 2 not appealing? Forrest holds wins over Shogun and Rampage... Shogun beat Rampage, but Forrest is in no position for a title shot even though he has a win over the champ. Forrest and Rampage both lost to Rashad, who is the #1 contender. There's no reason not to book Rampage and Forrest II.

 

I'm mostly basing this off UFC very rarely doing second and third fights if they're not for the title (though I guess Chuck - Tito III dispels that somewhat) but I guess actually getting the title is looking pretty unlikely for both guys right about now.

 

If it happens it better be a five rounder at least.

 

It is hard for me to say Nog straight up won that fight but I don't think it was clearly Brilz fight either. I would love to see a rematch there with Brilz having a proper camp/time. And my god rogan/goldberg annoy me. I beg the UFC to bring the THE VOICE!

 

Good god dude, no. Rogan and Goldberg are pretty bad but they're still the best commentators in MMA right now.

 

Schiavello is terrible. He tries to hide his inability to provide valuable commentary by YELLING CATCHPHRASES THE BIG KABOOSH. He's like a Goldberg who knows less about MMA and yells more stupid things in a dumb accent.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I'm mostly basing this off UFC very rarely doing second and third fights if they're not for the title (though I guess Chuck - Tito III dispels that somewhat) but I guess actually getting the title is looking pretty unlikely for both guys right about now.

 

If it happens it better be a five rounder at least.

 

Fair enough, I was reading into it wrong. I thought you were stating your personal preference would be to not see it. But I agree, I would prefer it be five rounds. I'm one of those who feels all main event fights should be five rounders, at least on pay per views. If you're headlining a pay per view at least the company feels you are in title contention, or at least one of them is... So let it be five rounds. Rashad vs. Quinton certainly could have used two more rounds.

 

Gotta say though, I could easily see them giving Forrest a title shot if he gets one more win. The casual fan still idolizes Forrest, and they're making up the large majority of buys. The fact that he beat Shogun has to count for something too. Plus you know Shogun wants that fight badly to avenge the loss. So I could definitely see them giving Forrest a title shot because it would sell a stupid amount of pay per views. I would say if Shogun dominates Rashad, you could make a case for Forrest getting a shot.

[LoNdOn]

Fair enough, I was reading into it wrong. I thought you were stating your personal preference would be to not see it. But I agree, I would prefer it be five rounds. I'm one of those who feels all main event fights should be five rounders, at least on pay per views. If you're headlining a pay per view at least the company feels you are in title contention, or at least one of them is... So let it be five rounds. Rashad vs. Quinton certainly could have used two more rounds.

 

Gotta say though, I could easily see them giving Forrest a title shot if he gets one more win. The casual fan still idolizes Forrest, and they're making up the large majority of buys. The fact that he beat Shogun has to count for something too. Plus you know Shogun wants that fight badly to avenge the loss. So I could definitely see them giving Forrest a title shot because it would sell a stupid amount of pay per views. I would say if Shogun dominates Rashad, you could make a case for Forrest getting a shot.

 

Beyond Rashad who else is there? Lyoto needs at least one win before he can get a title shot. Same with Rampage now. Forrest looks like a good candidate but I think they need to do Little Nog vs Griffin with the winner of that fight getting a shot a Shogun (assuming he gets past Rashad)

[GatorBait19]

I saw Evans as the dominant fighter because he out stuck Rampage, outwrestled Rampage, was much faster, imposed his gameplan and more. Rampage did only two things the entire fight in rocking Rashad (did absolutely nothing to follow up) and getting some ground and pound (most of which was blocked).

 

How long Rampage was off or how he would do in a rematch does not change the fact that he was dominated this time.

 

I agree, Evans was the better fighter last night, but not the better fighter overall. That we wont know until there is a rematch where there are no excuses.

 

Also re-watch the tape when Evans was down, Rampage got 6 licks with no defense from Evans who was still rocked from the shot.

 

Also I never said Rampage should have one, do I think Evans was out, yes, but Rampage didn't stay on top and finished it. Evans was the better fighter tonight and deserved the win, but this doesn't make Evans the better fighter overall

[Dustin]

I agree, Evans was the better fighter last night, but not the better fighter overall. That we wont know until there is a rematch where there are no excuses.

 

Also re-watch the tape when Evans was down, Rampage got 6 licks with no defense from Evans who was still rocked from the shot.

 

Also I never said Rampage should have one, do I think Evans was out, yes, but Rampage didn't stay on top and finished it. Evans was the better fighter tonight and deserved the win, but this doesn't make Evans the better fighter overall

 

OK, I thought you were originally saying that Rampage should have won by KO, was robbed, etc.

 

I do feel that Rashad is the better fighter overall though due to him being more well-rounded, but hope you're right about the rematch as I, much like you, am not very fond of him.

 

Good thing we have Shogun!

[GatorBait19]

OK, I thought you were originally saying that Rampage should have won by KO, was robbed, etc.

 

I do feel that Rashad is the better fighter overall though due to him being more well-rounded, but hope you're right about the rematch as I, much like you, am not very fond of him.

 

Good thing we have Shogun!

 

lol no, I like the fact Dean didn't call the fight (cause like I said he looked out to me) but Dean was right there and I have seen some bullsh*t calls before.

 

if Rampage gets motivated, which I think he can, he can be dangerous. After reading every report from his camp last night and today Rampage took this loss personal compared to other. He felt he was as prepared as he thought he was, so I hope we seen something changed.

 

Also I don't hate any fighter, do some talk to much.... yeah, but for the most part that's them being showmen, trying to get people against them. I know people say this isn't WWE but the fighters still stir up the crowds and other fighters for their own personal gain.`

 

Shogun vs Evans will be a good fight. (also to me Evans punches just didn't seem to faze Rampage much) I don't think Evans striking will match Shogun but ground game could be good.

 

Like I said Evans just to me seems weak when he throws, I don't know if it's all his moving around, but it just seems weak. I know he knocked Liddell out and a couple others but I believe his lands nice shots (Evans shot on Chuck was a clean nice place hit, Jackson's was both men falling backwards and clipped him for the KO)

[Daffanka]

Shogun vs Evans will be a good fight. (also to me Evans punches just didn't seem to faze Rampage much) I don't think Evans striking will match Shogun but ground game could be good.

 

Rampage has one of the best chins in MMA. Only Pride Super Steroid Wanderlei has ever knocked him clean out and that's because he ate one of the strongest MT clinch knees I've ever seen.

 

That said I think Shogun's going to get to Evans eventually. Shogun will get taken down a bunch because his defensive wrestling sucks but his bottom game is at least serviceable and he's got hand speed, ridiculous power, a great chin and he's not going to let up if he sees Rashad is rocked. It's going to be way closer than people think but once Rashad slows down with his takedowns he'll get clocked. Wouldn't be surprised if he was winning the fight until then though.

[RingofHonorGuard]

Rampage has one of the best chins in MMA. Only Pride Super Steroid Wanderlei has ever knocked him clean out and that's because he ate one of the strongest MT clinch knees I've ever seen.

 

That said I think Shogun's going to get to Evans eventually. Shogun will get taken down a bunch because his defensive wrestling sucks but his bottom game is at least serviceable and he's got hand speed, ridiculous power, a great chin and he's not going to let up if he sees Rashad is rocked. It's going to be way closer than people think but once Rashad slows down with his takedowns he'll get clocked. Wouldn't be surprised if he was winning the fight until then though.

 

Yeah, Rampage's chin is pretty legendary. It's right up there with Hendo and Early PRIDE Big Nog. When Rashad clipped him at the beginning of the fight, it kind of reminded me of Fedor/Fujita when Fedor got knocked silly and just kinda twinkle-toed around until he got his footing back. But yeah, when Wandy knee'd his face off and basically left him hanging like a towel in the ropes that's pretty much the only time I can recall Quinton getting his chin tested to the point of failure... And even then I don't think he was mentally done, I think his body lost the ability to keep moving.

 

As for Rashad/Shogun, I think Shogun wins pretty handily. But I could also see Rashad coming in prepared and grinding out a decision. Plus with the way the judging has been lately, who knows? But if I was going to bet on the fight, I'd slap a pick on Shogun by TKO either early, or in round four after Rashad wrestles Shogun around and we see a lot of good sweeping from Rua, and some leg kicks. Think the leg kicks will be key in the match, it'll slow Rashad's wrestling down.

[Dustin]

Rampage has one of the best chins in MMA. Only Pride Super Steroid Wanderlei has ever knocked him clean out and that's because he ate one of the strongest MT clinch knees I've ever seen.

 

That said I think Shogun's going to get to Evans eventually. Shogun will get taken down a bunch because his defensive wrestling sucks but his bottom game is at least serviceable and he's got hand speed, ridiculous power, a great chin and he's not going to let up if he sees Rashad is rocked. It's going to be way closer than people think but once Rashad slows down with his takedowns he'll get clocked. Wouldn't be surprised if he was winning the fight until then though.

 

How dare you? Wand was probably NOT on roids.

[Daffanka]

How dare you? Wand was probably NOT on roids.

 

Oh come on, he was absolutely enormous in Pride. I love the guy but he (and everyone else) was pretty clearly using.

 

Also if anyone else cares about dumb but incredibly talented kickboxers ruining their fights by losing temper:

 

During the fight against Hesdy Gerges at It's Showtime's gala in the Amsterdam ArenA, for the second time in my career I have made the same mistake again. This mistake, I lost the match that I had wanted to win. An action which I not only myself but the audience got disappointed.

 

I've thought about my decision and I have concluded that it is better for me to take time off for an indefinite period of time before fighting again.

 

I would not have time to prepare for a fight because I want to remove myself from this period and set everything straight. There is no penalty imposed by an organization, I'm doing this yourself.

 

I wish to apologize to the Amsterdam ArenA and Hesdy Gerges public offering for this bad performance. I hope after I've found myself again, people can again enjoy our sport.

 

Sincerely,

Badr Hari

 

This is either something his lawyers told him to write or he's genuinely concerned that he lost a fight he was actually winning by losing his temper.

 

I don't even know why he did it this time. It's not like he was fighting Remy who was frustrating him with his defense, he was winning the fight. Maybe he wasn't winning as fast as he'd hoped.

[brashleyholland]

This is either something his lawyers told him to write or he's genuinely concerned that he lost a fight he was actually winning by losing his temper.

 

Just your standard "I'm sorry for my actions" statement penned by a manager. The guy has no remorse whatsoever.

 

I don't even know why he did it this time. It's not like he was fighting Remy who was frustrating him with his defense, he was winning the fight. Maybe he wasn't winning as fast as he'd hoped.

 

The fight was very much Rocky (Gerges) vs Apollo Creed 1. Hari sells a lot of tickets in his home town (especially within the Moroccan community) and Gerges was there to take a beating, nothing more, nothing less. He's got one or two decent names on his record (Ashwin Balrack, who's 35 and well past his best and Paul Slowinski) but he's not on the same level as Hari.

 

So Gerges take a beating but not only does he not capitulate, he keeps coming on to Hari. Hari's solution: Kick him in the face while he's down. Why? Who knows?

 

I honestly don't think it was out of frustration; Hari has had attitude problems for years. Mike's gym is a great place to train (speaking from a little experience here) but the Pro's (and some of the guys who just train there) are an 'interesting' bunch when it comes to personalities. Lot of streetfighters and, ahem, 'alleged or former' criminals there....Melvin Manhoef was constantly in and out of prison for one thing or another until a few years ago. There were a couple of times that he turned up for fights straight from a jail cell where he'd spent the night. I was once told a story of him weighing-in for a fight in a police station where he was detained for 48 hours. And Melvin is one of the 'role model' Pro's at Mike's Gym...

 

There's a clique of white skinheads and clique of Moroccans there...it's very confrontational and there are serious authority issues. It's a good place to take classes because the trainers are excellent, but it's not a fun place to train full time because of all the hassle.

 

Paul Daley trains and does his camps there, funnily enough.

 

Anyway, the problem with Hari is that he's one of the best in the world and one of the biggest draws in Europe and Japan, and he knows it. Was he even punished for what he did to Remy (who to be fair deserved an Oscar for his performance)? Lets see; Stripped of the meaningless K-1 Heavyweight title and fined his purse, then given the highest billed K-1 fight at Dynamite just three weeks later. Way to slap the wrists.

 

Point being, he keeps getting away with it, so he'll keep doing it until he gets hit where it hurts - in the pocket. It's frustrating as a fan because the guy is just an awesome fighter...although this trademark 'Rolling Thunder Kick' KO of Hari from the great Pete Graham is one of my favourite K-1 KO's of all time :-p

 

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7266288123121388766#

[brashleyholland]

So, UFC 115 was interesting.

 

- Great job from Hathaway. Wasn't expecting that solid and complete a performance at all. Will be interesting to see if he can keep up the momentum. Look out for 'Hitman' vs 'Stun Gun' @ UFC 120 in London.

 

- Todd Duffee now apparently holds a second record...biggest strike disparity in a (T)KO loss. :-p Seriosuly though...I wanted to believe the hype with Duffee...and I'm really, really not one to buy into him being the second coming after he clipped the massively mediocre Tim Hauge. Tuchscherer/Schaub loser next for Todd. God knows what they do with Russow. Loser of Nelson/Mir?

 

- Rampage did well for a guy coming off a 12-month lay off against a guy who did exactly what he needed to do to win. Thought 'Page had him in the third, but from what I heard he was to hesitant to go for the kill in case he ran out of steam and couldn't finish. That's the kind of stupid decision mental ring rust can make for you. All credit to Rashad though.

 

- Nogueira-Brilz. Really enjoyed that fight as I'm a grappler myself at heart and I do love a good sweep. Interesting for me is that people rag on MMA judges for over-weighting sloppy striking and takedowns and not understanding the grappling aspect of MMA. Yet when some judges give a fight to someone who scored points with a ton of sweeps and transitions, they get ragged on some more. Can't win eh?

 

For the record, I thought Brilz 'won the fight' overall. That said, my initial reaction was draw before the scores were announced. I can however, go through that fight and (correctly) score it 29-28 for Nogueira under the Unified Rules judging criteria.

 

Here's a question for debate: If I lock down a guillotine, nearly pull a guy's head off with it for a minute but *don't* submit them...then is what I'm going 'effective grappling', considering that I've not hurt them and filled my own arms with lactic acid, impairing myself for the remainder of the fight? (It's not like a failed arm/kneebar where I could still have 'damaged' them by popping the elbow/knee before they escape)

 

Should a failed sub count any more than a failed takedown? Or strikes? If you don't count that choke, would the decision be as controversial?

 

I'm staying out of the 'who does Rampage fight next' debate for now as I'm in the middle of writing something on it for work which I'll link to here when it goes up for anyone who has five mins to spare :-p

[Zoloftjunkie]

Good god dude, no. Rogan and Goldberg are pretty bad but they're still the best commentators in MMA right now.

 

Schiavello is terrible. He tries to hide his inability to provide valuable commentary by YELLING CATCHPHRASES THE BIG KABOOSH. He's like a Goldberg who knows less about MMA and yells more stupid things in a dumb accent.

 

While his style of being very animated and injecting his own humor into it might not be your cup of tea I don't see how you can say he is stupid. He comes off very knowledgeable to me during the broadcasts. He knows what is going on and gives a lot of insight. As for his Australian accent I like it. Then again I don't hate on people for where they come from.

[Daffanka]

While his style of being very animated and injecting his own humor into it might not be your cup of tea I don't see how you can say he is stupid. He comes off very knowledgeable to me during the broadcasts. He knows what is going on and gives a lot of insight. As for his Australian accent I like it. Then again I don't hate on people for where they come from.

 

He never ever says anything insightful, he often incorrectly calls fights (look at, say, Saki - Karaev when Karaev was punching the hell out of Saki's gloves and he was freaking out) and he's certainly not funny unless you think hearing him make shout outs to his internet friends and yell things he spent all night coming up is funny.

 

I also like Australian accents (or at least some of them?) but it's unbearable for me to listen to him shout over the fight noises when I'm trying to enjoy it. I've only ever seen kickboxing/MMA fights a couple times without commentary and it was the best thing.

[Dustin]

Schiavello is excellent IMO but Frank Trigg needs to go in favor of Guy Mezger. I feel that he only got the job out of pity for having his career ended on a bad note.

[GatorBait19]

Can someone explain to me why M. Goldberg is an announcer for MMA?

 

Listening to the announcing of all PPV it's pretty much Rogean talking and Goldberg at the end just restating what Joe said. I always hoped the would replace Mike with a true MMA former fighter and let Joe be the host.

[Dustin]

Can someone explain to me why M. Goldberg is an announcer for MMA?

 

Listening to the announcing of all PPV it's pretty much Rogean talking and Goldberg at the end just restating what Joe said. I always hoped the would replace Mike with a true MMA former fighter and let Joe be the host.

 

Goldberg does a perfect job IMO.

 

You have to understand that MMA is still a new sport and not everyone watching knows what they are watching.

 

Thus, he messes up, asks questions that a new fan would ask, etc and Rogan explains things.

[GatorBait19]

Goldberg does a perfect job IMO.

 

You have to understand that MMA is still a new sport and not everyone watching knows what they are watching.

 

Thus, he messes up, asks questions that a new fan would ask, etc and Rogan explains things.

 

I just think someone with MMA experience (who has fought in a UFC fight or 2) would be better. I think (IMO) that Rogan and Goldberg both at times will say things to make one fight look better than then other.

 

But a real fighter (once again some who has fought in the ring) would be able to explain it better. So even if they added a thrid announcer to the team to more explain what Fighter A is feeling right now and what his next move should be or what Fighter B is doing (etc.)

 

Would be more entertaining then a comedian and show host

 

(and yes I know Rogan has a brown belt in BJJ, and a Black in Taekwondo)

[Dustin]

I just think someone with MMA experience (who has fought in a UFC fight or 2) would be better. I think (IMO) that Rogan and Goldberg both at times will say things to make one fight look better than then other.

 

But a real fighter (once again some who has fought in the ring) would be able to explain it better. So even if they added a thrid announcer to the team to more explain what Fighter A is feeling right now and what his next move should be or what Fighter B is doing (etc.)

 

Would be more entertaining then a comedian and show host

 

(and yes I know Rogan has a brown belt in BJJ, and a Black in Taekwondo)

 

Makes sense. Frank Mir is the best in that case IMO.

[Daffanka]

I just think someone with MMA experience (who has fought in a UFC fight or 2) would be better. I think (IMO) that Rogan and Goldberg both at times will say things to make one fight look better than then other.

 

But a real fighter (once again some who has fought in the ring) would be able to explain it better. So even if they added a thrid announcer to the team to more explain what Fighter A is feeling right now and what his next move should be or what Fighter B is doing (etc.)

 

Would be more entertaining then a comedian and show host

 

(and yes I know Rogan has a brown belt in BJJ, and a Black in Taekwondo)

 

Florian was really good at this but as he's an active fighter and really wants to stay on everyone's good side he was a bit to complimentary of everyone. When he retires he'll be a really solid commentator. There's a couple other guys that could probably do this, like King Mo.

 

That said Rogan is a recognizable name and very good at explaining the ground game in layman's terms to all the new viewers and he's the best MMA color commentator right now.

 

Goldberg they could probably get rid of but he's a familiar guy to a lot of viewers and the list of people that are better than him at play by play pretty much comes down to Pat Miletech (who I hope they get in there.)

[brashleyholland]

I just think someone with MMA experience (who has fought in a UFC fight or 2) would be better. I think (IMO) that Rogan and Goldberg both at times will say things to make one fight look better than then other.

 

But a real fighter (once again some who has fought in the ring) would be able to explain it better. So even if they added a thrid announcer to the team to more explain what Fighter A is feeling right now and what his next move should be or what Fighter B is doing (etc.)

 

Would be more entertaining then a comedian and show host

 

(and yes I know Rogan has a brown belt in BJJ, and a Black in Taekwondo)

 

You should never, NEVER have a commentary team without at least one professional broadcaster. People rag on Mauro and Goldy, but they hold the broadcasts together. They aren't there to provide insight, they're commentators; they keep the pace, sell the product, sell the fighters and do play-by-play.

 

The Rogans, Shamrocks, Mirs, Florians etc are the colour guys...they provide the insight and 'know-how'. I've seen Bas Rutten (IMO, the best colour man in the business) do play-by-play while another fighter did the colour and it was HORRIBLE. Disjointed, lacking flow...just horrible.

 

Rogan is perfect because he's a superfan. He know's more UFC history than most fighters I've met. Goldy is perfect too, for his role. I don't particularly care for him, but his job is to SELL SELL SELL!!! the UFC brand and fighters to casual fans, and he does a damn good job of it.

 

My all-time favourite commentary team was 'The Fight Professor' Stephan Quadros and Bas Rutten when they did 2H2H, Pride etc.

 

Sorry Daffanka, but as someone who grew up listening to 'Sensei' Will Vanders commentating on K-1 for Eurosport, 'The Voice' is a breath of fresh air for me; definitely a guilty pleasure. He's also an awesome guy in person, very knowledgeable and funny as hell.

 

GOODNIGHT IRENE!!!

[brashleyholland]

 

'Sensei' Will Vanders - Now *this* is bad...

 

"In and out like a fiddler's elbow"

 

"That was a performance so bright, if he ever gives up K-1 he could become a disco strobe"

 

"Busier than a Bishop's hat" (my personal favourite)

 

"He's between a dog and lamppost"

 

"He will drink heartily from the well of misery/bitter chalice of defeat"

 

"Bye-bye Pepsi Cola, hello holy wine!"

 

"He's so deadly, it's like taking a viper....(uncomfortable pause)....onto your bosom.

[Daffanka]

Hey man I had to stomach some truly terrible Swedish announcers when I was trying to enjoy Buakaw tearing it up in the 2004 GP. You got nothing on me!

 

Highlights include being perplexed by the extra round because they thought Masato won and loudly denouncing trips and knees in the clinch as "fighting like a f****t".

 

If you are not familiar with K-1, Buakaw's performance (and beating the snot out of Masato) is why K-1 banned multiple knees from the clinch. Now they're banned altogether, presumably because they want to handicap Schilt.