The Official MMA Discussion Thread

[Zoloftjunkie]

Bellator is a good company and does things right. Strikeforce is just a joke passing for big league company. I don't even remember the last time they put on a good card. If they were trying to build stars up I doubt they would feed rogers to fedor. Who in turn earns a title shot for being ktfo. Or how they brought in hendo praying he would dethrone Shields before he got out of dodge. Strikeforce isn't trying to be a medium stage they are trying to be the next UFC.

[brashleyholland]

Bellator is a good company and does things right. Strikeforce is just a joke passing for big league company. I don't even remember the last time they put on a good card. If they were trying to build stars up I doubt they would feed rogers to fedor. Who in turn earns a title shot for being ktfo. Or how they brought in hendo praying he would dethrone Shields before he got out of dodge. Strikeforce isn't trying to be a medium stage they are trying to be the next UFC.

 

It's more Showtime than Strikeforce that are pushing in that direction. Showtime aren't interested in Strikeforce, they just want MMA programming. They're paying for the fights, so they have the say in who fights who etc. They don't care for SF's long term future, because it's just a label to them at the moment.

 

If you're a fan of good fights, Strikeforce has put on plenty of them. I can't see for the life of me how it benefits anyone if they fold. I just means you'll be watching the exact same fighters and fights on Showtime, only it'll be called Bellator, ShoMMA, ProElite or whatever other organisation they pick up.

 

But King Mo/Babalu have already verbally said they won't fight.

 

During the press conference for this event last week, Babalu's manager said explicitly that they didn't want that fight, and that he was pursuing bouts with Hendo and Mousasi....BUT...if the King Mo fight was on the table, they would take it.

 

Babalu/Hendo makes sense...but I have no idea who they'd put Lawal up against in August if they go though with that. I'm on the conference call for Fedor vs Werdum in a couple of hours; I intend to ask what the plans are for the 185 and 205 belts coming out of last nights show if we get the opportunity to talk to Scott.

 

Last night's show was just kind of thrown together, and I think I remember hearing it was for some cause, or some of the money was going to something. There was a reason they rushed the card together, I do know that.

 

EA asked them to put on a Strikeforce Fan Expo to promote the game. Someone obviously pointed out that this isn't the UFC, where everyone has a promotional contact as well so that the company can say "Hey, you're going to a convention this week". Fedor wouldn't have gone, Randy can't and as sad as I am to say it, Strikeforce doesn't have more than one or two other recognisable faces that people at E3 are going to know. Second option was some fights.

 

I think it was supposed to be Mayhem in the main event at 185 before all that stuff with the suspensions...Babalu stepped up but couldn't make 185. I thought it was a decent fight.

[brashleyholland]

Who does everyone have for Bellator tonight out of interest?

 

I'm playing it safe with Hornbuckle.

[Daffanka]

Bellator is a good company and does things right. Strikeforce is just a joke passing for big league company. I don't even remember the last time they put on a good card.

 

http://i44.tinypic.com/35hpdv6.gif

 

(my enjoyment of this card was not at all affected by my gigantic platonic mancrush on Overeem)

 

Strikeforce does a lot of mistakes (and perhaps shows people why Dana didn't want to give up creative control to networks for a TV deal) but they give fighters work, exposure, alternatives and experience so even if you don't like it I don't see why you'd want it to close.

 

Who does everyone have for Bellator tonight out of interest?

 

I'm playing it safe with Hornbuckle.

 

Never underestimate the ability of wrestlers to get ugly decisions where they were almost submitted fifty times. I do think Hornbuckle's going to sink something in though so I'm going with him.

[Zoloftjunkie]

Who does everyone have for Bellator tonight out of interest?

 

I'm playing it safe with Hornbuckle.

 

I have Hornbuckle winning tonight and taking the title when that fight happens. AND THEN THE WORLD ITSELF!!!! Ok maybe I am a bit in love with "The Handler".

 

And yeah your right Brash and Daff. It is good that these fighters have a place to call home and make a living. They(strikeforce) just do some of the stupidest ****.

 

A few observations from last nights show. Is it just me or did noons look horrible against someone who was coming off 12 days notice? A proper camp and Heun might of taken that fight.

And Žaromskis coming off back to back losses is sure making Dreams ww champ look weak. The Santos loss def. putting a bigger dent then the Diaz loss.

[brashleyholland]

A few observations from last nights show. Is it just me or did noons look horrible against someone who was coming off 12 days notice? A proper camp and Heun might of taken that fight.

And Žaromskis coming off back to back losses is sure making Dreams ww champ look weak. The Santos loss def. putting a bigger dent then the Diaz loss.

 

I think that if Heun had the gas to work a bit more in the clinch and really chase some takedown, then absolutely he'd have been able to get the nod. At the same time, there would have been a ton more opportunities for Noons to catch him with that uppercut coming in, so who knows? When you're coming in without a proper camp, sometimes just going for it (like Heun did last night) can serve you better than doggedly sticking to your strengths against someone who is, at the end of the day, a better fighter.

 

 

Like Daffanka said, Zaromskis needs to get down to 155 where he belongs.

[Zoloftjunkie]

http://mmajunkie.com/news/19575/strikeforce-boss-noons-vs-diaz-ii-likely-king-karl-eyes-three-future-titles.mma

 

Noons thinks he can win lightweight-welterweight-and a boxing title. I don't know how good he is at pro boxing but that is the title he has the best shot at winning atm. I know he holds a win over Diaz but I don't see that happening again. And Melendez isn't dropping the strap anytime soon. How many of the three do you guys see him winning?

[TheKenwyne]

Saw a really good article on Bloody Elbow today that compared Strikeforce to old-skool KOTC. Nice comparison. Makes sense.

 

 

Here it is: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/6/17/1522593/strikeforce-channels-king-of-the

[brashleyholland]

Saw a really good article on Bloody Elbow today that compared Strikeforce to old-skool KOTC. Nice comparison. Makes sense.

 

 

Here it is: http://www.bloodyelbow.com/2010/6/17/1522593/strikeforce-channels-king-of-the

 

That was a funky little trip down memory lane...and now I'm going to intersperse my World Cup Weekend with KOTC DVD box sets

 

It's a cool comparison; the only difference I see is that KOTC were running shows like that because they wanted to...they had a good relationship with the UFC at the time, they were keeping their heads down enough not to attract any serious negative attention...they were purposefully running a cross between a feeder league and a sideshow. And it was great. (They're a bit more professional now, but they're still putting on some cracking shows.)

 

Strikeforce's problem is that many of their big cards are mish-mash because they don't have any other options. If they'd can their meaningless titles until they have divisions that can support them and treat their cards for what they are - local shows with a few big names - then fine. As it is though, they're stuck with Showtime and CBS schilling them as the next big thing, with 'World Champions' etc.

 

I try not to compare them to the UFC, it's an entirely different animal...but if I had to, I'd say it'd be like Superman fighting a guy in a Superman fancy dress costume he made at home: Sure, they kinda look the same from a distance, but if you actually stop and look at them side-by-side...the differences are pretty clear to see, and there's only ever going to be one winner...

 

Plus...Strikeforce didn't have an openly homosexual ex-convict fighting in cargo shorts and a sweet pair of Converse. Shad Smith FTW!

[brashleyholland]

http://mmajunkie.com/news/19575/strikeforce-boss-noons-vs-diaz-ii-likely-king-karl-eyes-three-future-titles.mma

 

Noons thinks he can win lightweight-welterweight-and a boxing title. I don't know how good he is at pro boxing but that is the title he has the best shot at winning atm. I know he holds a win over Diaz but I don't see that happening again. And Melendez isn't dropping the strap anytime soon. How many of the three do you guys see him winning?

 

He's not a great boxer by any stretch. He's ranked something silly like 180th in the world in a garbage division (middleweight). 5 knock outs in 12 wins or something like that...couple of losses too. *consults Box Rec* 11-2-0 (5KOs). If you're nearly 28 and thats your record, you're not going to win a boxing title of any significance. I'm sure he could bag some unheard of alphabet soup title if he had the right promoter.

 

I don't see him beating Melendez or Diaz before they jump ship to the UFC either.

[Daffanka]

While we're talking about all this remember how cool it is that Bellator manages to put on solid fights every week while running competitive tournaments with (relatively) meaningful titles.

 

I don't think we're going to keep seeing nearly the same quality of fighters the FW and WW divisions have had this season (why would you have a heavyweight tournament ) and I don't know about their financial situation but I imagine they can be a sustainable organization if they keep pulling people in with the free action, making them stay with the tournament format and don't try to go head to head with the UFC.

[brashleyholland]

Thats an awesome venue Bellator are running. Almost as good as the Amsterdam Airport venue

[brashleyholland]

Bellator just flashed a graphic saying they have signed Ash 'The Bash' Daley for their women's division.

 

'Bash' is a lovely girl, sound as a pound with a fiver wrapped around, as we say over here. She also fights like a rabid dog...can't wait to see her in Bellator.

[Daffanka]

Well this fight is unexpectedly enjoyable. Loved the headscissors to side control.

[Zoloftjunkie]

Well I am a sad panda now that Hornbuckler lost . Got to give it up to Askern though he had a hell of a fight. Was a good show and enjoyed it much.

I coudln't help but thinking during the broadcast though that it would suck if it started to rain : P.

[Dustin]

I absolutely loved the show tonight, 5/5 IMO. Ben Askren will be champ one day.

[RingofHonorGuard]

I called Askren winning from the point the fight was made. The dude is a beast. It needs to be pointed out that he's going to be one of those guys like Phil Davis who looks more and more dynamic every fight. He pretty much busted Hornbuckle up on the ground, the very place every one(and not just here) thought Hornbuckle would win it.

 

Was a good fight, but I hope more people get into Ben Askren and the evolution of wrestling in mixed martial arts. Matt Hughes was just the prototype, folks. We've got Phil Davis, Ben Askren, and Johnny Hendricks now.

[Daffanka]

I'm not really sure about Askren yet. He's a good wrestler no doubt about that but I think he leaves too many openings with his scramble style grappling for fighters with real, solid bottom games to find a submission or get to their feet.

 

The guy's only had six pro fights though so he'll get better, probably a lot better. But right now I don't think he'd get much further than gatekeeper status in the UFC.

 

Also I had almost forgotten how much Brock looks like a Gears of War character:

[RingofHonorGuard]

I'm not really sure about Askren yet. He's a good wrestler no doubt about that but I think he leaves too many openings with his scramble style grappling for fighters with real, solid bottom games to find a submission or get to their feet.

 

The guy's only had six pro fights though so he'll get better, probably a lot better. But right now I don't think he'd get much further than gatekeeper status in the UFC.

 

Also I had almost forgotten how much Brock looks like a Gears of War character:

 

No doubt, Askren would get owned in the UFC right now, he'd probably be a .500 record holder. He is sloppy, but age and technique are what will fix that, and his desire to compete at a high level. Hornbuckle was a good test for him, because Dan's kind of at that level where he could be in the UFC but he'd also be around the .500 mark. So, the sky is the limit for Funky Ben.

 

Also, speaking of Lesnar.. Anyone else hear he hired Randy Couture to train him for Carwin? That seems like a smart thing to do.

[brashleyholland]

 

Also, speaking of Lesnar.. Anyone else hear he hired Randy Couture to train him for Carwin? That seems like a smart thing to do.

 

You've got to give it to Brock, he's doing everything right as far as training/learning goes. He's certainly putting the effort in. Can you imagine if the guy had started training to fight straight out of his NCAA career? I reckon he'd be at the point of fighting two guys at once by now

[Zoloftjunkie]

Lets go Hamill!! STOP!!!!!!! Hammer TIME!!!!

[jesterx7769]

I thought the televised fights went down pretty well last night. Little dissapointed in Simpson but I wasn't expecting him to become some phenom like some wrote him out to be anyway, but I cheered for him since with his short hair and goatee he looked like Vitor.

 

Hammil/Jardine was entertaining, kinda disagree with the finger poke taking away a point though, just because it did damage Jardine loses a point? Of course it did damage, its a thumb in the eye! but yeah, he lost the 2nd and 3rd rounds anyways. interested to see if its his last UFC fight or not since its one the loyalists and puts on good bang bang fights which keeps you your job.

 

McGee did a good job with the 3ish throws that he did so nice takedowns there. wonder who they will put him up against next. I dont see many of the cast staying with the UFC since in the past 2/3 seasons they have def. gone more the way of entertainers for TV than fighters for the UFC.

 

Overall it was a good night I thought, Hammil/Jardine and Simpson/Leben would have been solid main card fights on a PPV IMO so I was looking forward to those more than TUF since I only watched the first 3 episodes this year since they pretty much cut out all of their training now and I liked watching to learn before and not watch idiots in a house

[Daffanka]

Well the weekend's best fights (SINCE I CAN'T FIND SENGOKU 13 ANYWHERE ARGH) are coming up tonight.

 

WEC events are never boring.

[Daffanka]

Did.... did Strikeforce just sign Batista?

[brashleyholland]

<blockquote data-ipsquote="" class="ipsQuote" data-ipsquote-username="Daffanka" data-cite="Daffanka" data-ipsquote-contentapp="forums" data-ipsquote-contenttype="forums" data-ipsquote-contentid="26660" data-ipsquote-contentclass="forums_Topic"><div>Did.... did Strikeforce just sign Batista?</div></blockquote><p> </p><p> Drunk Batista tells TMZ yes, irritated Strikeforce exec says no, but that 'talks are ongoing'. Wow. </p><p> </p><p> There is chatter about a PPV in October/November, and that SF would have something PPV worthy other than a potential Fedor/Overeem fight. I guess Batista vs Hershal Walker would fit the bill, for all the wrong reasons or maybe even Batista vs Lashley. </p><p> </p><p> Is this *really* what it's taking to get people interested in paying for non-UFC MMA?</p>